CompuServe Thread

#How to find meteorites?

6 messages in this thread
#139678From: Joseph Y. MurakamiAug 1, 1994 4:42 AM
Hey Rob, Thanks for the kudos on my infomercial. Al Mitterling and I are still trying to figure how to get folks interested in contributing their input regarding things meteoritic… Ahh, Cape Cod…International Pancake House, ice cold beaches (for me!). sand dunes, saltwater taffy,…girls! Well, college was a long time ago. Sigh! I'm not sure how often meteorites are found by those purposely looking for them. In the Atacama desert in the high Andes, Rob Haag used a jeep and paraglider system to spot suspicious craterlets. On the Nullabor desert in Australia, three-wheelers and binoculars are used to scour the desert for suspicious individuals. Most pros go to known strewn fields where their chance of being successful is much better. Of course educating the local folks, then rewarding them handsomely seems to be the very best way of finding meteorites! I've no substantiated idea why falling stars are sometimes green or white or orange or occasionally varigate-colored, starting off pinkish-orange, then purple,then green… Meteors can be view on virtually any clear night. I've yet to spend any clear night outside for longer than 2 hours when I haven't seen at least one meteor. Of course, I'm usually looking. (For that mattter, satellites and space stations are common sights, too!) So it was that with a picnic mat and a bit of determination, my son whose now 10 and my daughter were individually initiated into wishing on a falling star. Those episodic meteoroids are likely the size of rice grains or peas and 70 miles up. As regard the green individual you witnessed, I'd think from you description that it must have been at least the size of a bowling ball or larger. These larger fireballs are called bolides. One fell a few weeks ago North of Montreal, and folks have recovered at least 10 fragments with a combined weight in excess of 20 kg. 5 individuals were found the first day, the largest a 5 kg piece. Canada's GSC clamped down on letting any of the specimens out of their country, but the word is that lots more's been found and the black market's already sneaked some out to Europe, where they're beginning to be offered! As the Meteoritical Society is meeting presently in Prague, Czechoslovakia, you can probably expect some St. Roberts to come into this country through the back door, along with a lot of Moldavites and some Stannern eucrites, I'm sure. My first bolide was when I was 12 and in the Scouts. Sitting on telephone poles situated around a campfire up in Camp Smith, Aiea, Hawaii, overlooking Pearl Harbor, a bunch of us just let ourselves lay back onto the ground staring up at a very dark starry sky. After an eternity of small talk, suddenly a huge brilliant orange orb about 2-3 times the size of the moon pierced the sky above (we all thought it was only a couple hundred feet above us!) and broke up into a shower of smaller pieces like a sparkler over the Pacific horizon. No noise….all silent. A moment later, only a filmy green after-image was stained on my retina. "Did you see that!!??" And we all confirmed we shared that experience. To this day, whenever I run into one of those guys from thirty years ago, it's always, "Do you remember ….?" Another memorable falling star was one I saw 7 years ago. It was Spring and about 8 p.m. in Scottsdale, Arizona. While walking from our conference hotel to a new shopping mall ("only 3 blocks away"–actually more like half a mile!), my wife and I saw a brilliant white individual fall vertically and sputter out well above the horizon. The light from that meteorite clearly defined the trees and walls that lined the street. That was my wife's first meteor fall! Two days later, en route from Tucson to Phoenix after a day of walking into cactus at the Desert Museum and seeing Doug Bullock and purchasing my first meteorites, we saw another fiery white meteorite plummet vertically ahead of us, again defining the low mountains to the south that was obscured moments before by the black of the night…then leaving only the red taillights of the trailer trucks far ahead of us. By then, my wife was convinced spectacular falling stars occurred all the time and that all she had to do was spend a little time outside at night! Boy, but she hates mosquitoes. Next month will greet the recurrence of the Perseids. Remember last year's fizzle?? I did catch maybe 15 per hour at it's height, but it seemed hardly a "shower" as in rain shower… Still, I thought it interesting that the Perseids are always ORANGE…a lot like the fireball from a Roman candle. I'll stay up, just in case it'll surprise us this year. H.H. Nininger noted one meteorite that contained nodules of copper. Maybe that accounts for an occasional green. Or maybe it's the ionized oxygen. I wonder if green meteor streaks photograph pink, like the Orion nebula does??? Take care, Joseph
#139682From: Rob SacksAug 1, 1994 5:20 AM
Joseph, Are bolides more common than I realized or have you been extraordinarily lucky? Sightings of them seem to be mentioned very seldom, both today and in literature from times that predated artificial lighting. — Rob
#139896From: Joseph Y. MurakamiAug 2, 1994 12:23 PM
Rob, I don't think I've been extraordinarily lucky. My wife tells me my head's always in the clouds, or on relatively cloudless nites, ALWAYS in the stars. I'm always spotting and pointing out satellites and such to my kids. Even before SL9 became prominent in the public's mind, my kids were nearly always aware of where Jupiter or Saturn or Mars or Venus happened to be…and they're not all that involved in Astronomy…yet. Even bought my home on a mountain 5 miles mauka of Diamond Head because the back yard faced a pretty dark horizon for 180 degrees. (Had to abort my personal observatory (no permanent structure) when the community association was contacted by Bishop Estate who owns the conservation land that borders my rim lot…) Though I may have, I'm not sure I'd really call the two "falling stars" I witnessed with my wife "bolides" though there's a fuzziness in the definition. They were bright though, maybe 2-4 times larger than the Perseid streaks we ought to all stay up for this August 12th or thereabouts. The one I saw when I was about 12 definitely was…particles breaking up 'n flames spitting and sputtering out… Regarding bolides and meteoroids in general, their peak incidence is actually around three p.m. in the afternoon!…and their minimum occurrence is about 3 a.m. ( though most bolides and such are reported in the early evening hours.) This is largely due to the rotation of the Earth and it's direction of orbit around the Sun in relation to most meteor swarms. The recoverability of observed meteorites seem to tie in closely to their survivability…and as the atmospheric entry velocity goes up, the survival of these visitors goe way down. Visualize this: the Earth as a circle in front of you rotating in a counter-clockwise direction. The Sun is in the 12:00 direction. For that matter, the 12:00 position on the circle represents the 12 noon position on Earth, the 6:00 position 12 midnite, the 9:00 position is 6 p.m. and the 3:00 position is 6 a.m. The Earth is moving at 18 mi/sec to the right in a 3:00 direction. The meteorites arriving from the 7-10:00 directions are usually low velocity and have a better chance of survival or slow break-up as versus those arriving head-on in the 2-5:00 direction. It's likely that many sizable stone meteoroids that arrive from the "right" are shattered high up in the atmosphere and don't even get noticed by most Earthlings… Why the huge Peekskill bolide noted by hundreds of highschool football fans over several states should drop only one 26 lb individual, I'm not sure… Around me, they probably just plop into the vast Pacific anyway… Sucks! Joseph
#139907From: Rob SacksAug 2, 1994 1:15 PM
Joseph, Your explanation of times and orbital mechanics made me think about the circumstances of the fireball I saw; I remember clearly that it shot forward over my head as I walked along Nauset beach on the east side of the "forearm" of Cape Cod with the ocean on the right; in other words, it was moving north. North? That would be more or less perpendicular to the ecliptic, wouldn't it? That seems odd. (I would imagine most meteors move in the same plane as the major planets.) So I decided to look in the journal I kept during those years, which I probably have not read since I wrote it. And it has given me a good lesson in the unreliability of my memory. I was positive the fireball was green, but in fact it was blue. Otherwise I was pretty accurate. Here's what I wrote in my entry for either May 17 or 18, 1981 (from the way I wrote, I can't tell which night it was. But I mention that the moon was full, so I could find out. Then I say): While we were walking on the beach — it was about two in the morning — the ground around us suddenly lit up blue, as if there were a flash of lightning. The light was bright enough, despite the full moon, to cast our shadows before us. We both looked up over our shoulders, but there was no lightning. In fact, there were no clouds. I looked around ahead of us and saw a gigantic fireball moving parallel to the beach straight above us. It had passed right over us as we first looked up. It was a ball of blue flame, about a quarter or a third the apparent width of the full moon, with a trail of blue flame behind it, and a trail of smoke behind the flame. It looked low enough and was bright enough to illuminate its own smoke and I could see ripples in the trail of smoke . . . the smoke trail looked five or six times as wide as the vapor trail of a cruising jet . . . I saw it no more than a fraction of a second, during which time it must have covered ten degrees of arc, when it burned it. It burned out very suddenly, almost without shrinking in size. [I also mention that there was no sound.] From what I've read since I last wrote to you, my supposition that the meteoroid illuminated its trail is wrong; the trail's radiance is apparently the result of excited atoms and ions in the trail itself. And meteors don't burn, as I supposed; they abrade from hitting air molecules. The article in my trusty Encyclopedia Britannica (from which I derive this information) makes this easy to understand by pointing out that a fast rifle bullet may leave the muzzle at 840 m/sec, whereas a slow meteoroid goes about 30 km/sec. Gram for gram, that's 1,250 times as much energy. A fast meteroid, at 60 km/sec, has 5,000 times as much energy. At that speed, hitting air would be sort of like running into a cloud of steel pellets at highway speed, I imagine. — Rob P.S. I doubt there was any connection, but I then mention in my journal that we drove inland and saw the most spectacular display of the aurora borealis I had seen up to that time on Cape Cod (it was normally visible only as a flickering just above the northern horizon, as if a city with electrical problems was located just over the horizon). But that night, it was "like swirling banks of light high in the sky, looking very much like a projection of light inside a flourescent tube whose starter is failing."
#140027From: Joseph Y. MurakamiAug 3, 1994 3:04 AM
Rob, Nice entry into your journal. Thanks for sharing it. Found this in my new copy of O. Richard Norton's ROCKS FROM SPACE regarding light phenomena and meteorites. It paraphrases bits I've read elsewhere, so I'll take liberties and further catenate his entry. Meteor light comes from two sources: the burning of the solid body itself (yup, the Ke=1/2 MV**2) and the incandescence of the atmosphere immediately around the burning mass. A meteoroid doesn't become luminous itself until it reaches between 90-60 mi altitude. Below this, the drag of air is adequate to convert some of that kinetic energy into enough heat to melt the outer parts of the meteoroid. This melted material may become incadenscent as it reaches 3000+ degrees F. The surface material liquifies, then further vaporizes. Like you said, the air around the incandescent stone then ionizes, losing electrons. As the atmospheric gases recapture electrons, they release light. A rock a foot or two may generate a glowing air mass hundreds of feet across and miles long via this mechanism. Regarding colors, the composition of the vaporizing material and the composition of the luminous air both contribute. Sodium generates yellow, nickel a green color, and magnesium an intense BLUE-WHITE. These compounds are present in many meteorites. Air molecules may flouresce in excitement with greens and reds generated by nitrogen and oxygen. Additionally, meteorites can change colors in mid-flight, typically going from a brilliant white to a bright red before extinguishing. Well, I thought it was interesting… Catch you later. –Joseph
#140256From: Doug MitchellAug 3, 1994 11:47 PM
Hi, Rob– I also expect a large fraction of meteoroids to be near the ecliptic plane. But the odds on seeing north/south paths may not reflect the odds of a near-ecliptic arrival direction. I am imagining a meteoroid traveling in the ecliptic plane, but passing "under" the south pole, and being pulled "up" by Earth's gravity to hit the atmosphere on the farther side traveling north. I am not clear on how often this sort of thing will happen, so yours might easily be a non-ecliptic oddball. –Doug