#3ds/ani-pro + NT
12 messages in this thread
Since we will still need to use 3ds4 and animator pro (great program still)
even when MAX comes out, my request is to make these old dos/pharlap
applications be compatible and work reliably with NT.
I don't think it's a good solution to reboot every time you need to use one OR
dedicate 1 extra machine per animator to those programs.
Martin
Hi Martin,
<<..my request is to make these old dos/pharlap applications be compatible and
work reliably with NT…>>
got it.
I'm sure you are sick of hearing this, but MAX backwards compatibility with win
95 is very important. Not many current users have or need the multiprocessor
and RISC support that NT provides. I can understand if win95 would involve
having a different code base, but I just don't so any reason why it would.
Please don't forget the students and the small company animators that made
3dstudio the overwhelming choice for animators. If win95 compatibility is too
difficult a feat, I wish autodesk would issue a press release explaining why in
detail it can't be done.
Rico, you are just not understanding the philosophy and concept under which MAX
was developed. Backwards compatibility with Win95 would indeed be a step
*backwards*. The Yost Group would actually have to "cripple" the code to make
it happen and there's just no reason for it at all. It's of the upmost
importance that the developers spend all their time making MAX the best, most
powerful 3D package available on the desktop platform, and not wasting time
making it "usable" on a (partially) 16-bit transitory/temporary operating
system. After seeing MAX run, it seems to me that it would tax an OS like '95
so much as to make it unusable.
Anyone (and I'll gaurantee they'll be a minority), who finds it impossible to
install and run WinNT (and I have no idea why they wouldn't…) has 3DS Classic
to use, learn with, and produce with. Not a bad way to go, really.
The bottom line is this: If you want the most powerful 3D system, then you've
gotta run it on a most powerful OS.
-Alan
What do you mean by cripple the code? Name me one API function used in MAX
that is not supported in Win95. That was exactly Microsoft's point was to have
one API for both systems except for security calls in NT. You shouldn't make
assumptions about an operating system by reading specifications. You should
actually see for yourself how it runs. You make assumptions about how win95
will run without any basis in real world experience. Add to the fact of NT's
ancient driver architecture i.e. no plug n play and no backward compatibility,
I would be constantly dual booting, believe me this is not fun, Alan. NT will
not be ready for primetime until Cairo comes out or until hardware vendors
decide that its worth the effort to support it. What's funny is that if
Autodesk had announced that the program would run on both 95 and NT, no one
would have been up in arms about win95 support. Autodesk has done a great job
of evangelizing people that they don't need win95 support.
>That was exactly Microsoft's point was to have one API for both systems except
for security calls in NT.<
MS doesn't have one 32bit API, there are three. Win32s, Win32c, and Win32.
>You shouldn't make assumptions about an operating system by reading
specifications. You should actually see for yourself how it runs.<
I run both. W95 still has problems in many areas.
>You make assumptions about how win95 will run without any basis in real world
experience.<
I use both NT and Win95. Win95 is great for home users, but still can't handle
the demands of 3D animation in my opinion.
>Add to the fact of NT's ancient driver architecture i.e. no plug n play and no
backward compatibility, I would be constantly dual booting,<
Ancient driver achitecture? Win95/DOS uses ancient drivers. Plug n play is only
necessary for users who don't know anything about hardware. NT recognized my
SCSI, DAT, CD7, video with no problems. I do admit that scanner support is
lacking, same as W95. W95 is still rooted in DOS, NT is new underlying
architecture. Just because NT looks like Windows, doesn't mean it runs like
Windows.
>NT will not be ready for primetime until Cairo comes out or until hardware
vendors decide that its worth the effort to support it.<
NT works now. In fact I don't use Win3.1/W95/DOS for anything but 3DSR4. All my
other apps run under NT without problems. Do you have hardware that doesn't
support NT?
>What's funny is that if Autodesk had announced that the program would run on
both 95 and NT, no one would have been up in arms about win95 support.<
It may be just me, but if 3DS MAX ran under W95 I would feel YG crippled it in
some way to get it to run. Six months is a long time in the computer industry
things may be different for you when 3DS MAX ships.
>Autodesk has done a great job of evangelizing people that they don't need
win95 support.<
I don't think I have seen anyone ask for W95 support other than you. Most
others on this forum are professional animators who put a lot of time and money
into their systems. If 3DS MAX goes NT, that is were we are going, that is the
reason we stuck with DOS.
All of the professional animatpors in this forum are using a Dos based program
with no problem. I have a scanner and I a video capture card that I use for
texture mapping and outputting to video. NT support neither. Hardware is a
huge investment, no one seems to care about that. 3ds power comes from
supporting students and professional alike by its great scalability. I feel
like I'm fighting a losing battle though, so I probably just give up and learn
lightwave or something. At least it supports 95 and NT exploiting the
advantages of both. Obviously no one else is having the hardware support
problems that I'm having. Win95 for me is the only single solution operating
system that supports my hardware with the speed advantages of 32-bit
applications. See me this time next year, but now the choice is easy for me,
no rebooting!
Rico, I think Martin said it very well:
<< after reading all your message on NT, I believe Adesk has a strategy for
you. They are going to continue to support the DOS version of 3ds. Should work
fine. >>
If you feel that people are getting along well in the DOS version right now,
and hence a WIn95 supported version would be plausable, why not run versison 4
under Win95? Version 4 is a great program. Just because it's not *MAX*,
doesn't mean it's not good.
Besides, once MAX is out and running, YG just may decide to hire a couple
people to make and update for 3DS classic to optimize THAT to run better under
95. Doing that would make more sense than pulling MAX down to that level OS.
Why do you assume that you have to pull MAX down to support win95. You can
maintain the same code except for some security features that MAX have no
reason for. That's exactly why win95 applications run natively under NT. NT
is great, but why limit your market if you don't have to. That's my only
point.
Rico,
after reading all your message on NT, I believe Adesk has a strategy for you.
They are going to continue to support the DOS version of 3ds. Should work fine.
Martin
Rico, there is obviously no way you are going to understand what I am trying to
tell you. There is no way I am going to go into a long, involved explanation of
exactly what's involved here. My programmer friends (and they're VERY good
ones) have explained it to me, and I rest assured the Yost Group is doing the
right thing. Although my explanation is not technically detailed, I believe it
is true and accurate. All I can say at this point is keep your eyes and ears
open for the mext 18 months in the world of 3D animation and things should come
into focus for you.
I wish you the best in your endevours.
-Alan
Thanks, but I wish I had some technical details, or at least Autodesk would
release some because I've programmed 32-bit applications that have run under NT
and 95. It would be a great benefit to me to know what special features of the
NT API that the Yost group is taking advantage of.