CompuServe Thread

#missing alpha channel

23 messages in this thread
#79455From: Gregory MacNicolJan 27, 1994 6:23 PM
Thanks for your response. But questions still remain. 1) Regarding the alpha channel problem: The attributes of the image used for bumping and texture were identical. That's where I was baffled. They were both set for decal. I tried "ignore" but got the same warning. I also tried different but matching values. No good. I decided to kill the texture map and give up. 2) Regarding the missing alpha channel: Good advice but useless. As I mentioned, the alpha channel is missing according to PhotOshop, QFX, and examining the file in hex. I asked 2 other video production facilities about this problems and they also have a problem with missing alpha information. They gave up as I have. But I'd like to know what the story is before I write it up in the newsletter. With alpha on and set to no-split, where's the alpha information? Try it yourself. Render an image and look at the alpha channel in QFX. Let me know what you get. Good Luck. – Gregory MacNicol
#79464From: David StinnettJan 27, 1994 8:03 PM
Gregory, I should probably wait for Gary's response, however, regarding your second problem, I've done several 32 bit renderings in the past few weeks with the main purpose of going into Photoshop and using the alpha as a mask, and I have not had a problem. Out of curiosity, have you tried doing a composite in video post with a 32 bit TGA rendered against black going on top of a bitmap background. I'm wondering how 3DS will read the file. David
#79508From: Yost GroupJan 28, 1994 12:07 AM
Comments: 1) Re alpha channel 2x use msg: If you can come up with a .prj file that illustrates the problem, archive it up with the maps and send it up to me and I'll tell you exactly what's going on with it. 2) Re the "missing" alpha channel. I absolutely guarantee you that 3DS creates perfect alpha channels. If you're having problems finding it, I can get you in direct contact with plenty of other folks who use Hires QFX, Photoshop, or any other 32-bit paint program. If you'd like to send me a .prj file that you're having problem getting an alpha channel from, feel free to zip it up and send it to me via email and I'll tell you exactly what to do about it. – G
#80144From: Mike KelleyJan 31, 1994 6:27 PM
PMJI, but I want to echo Gary's remarks — 3DS does product Alpha; not only do I use the Alpha files in Photoshop with no problems, but I use the 3DS with alpha with my Video Machine (which composites the alpha perfectly as transparency information to be mixed with live video). All I do is produce the alpha TGA with no alpha split on.
#80268From: Darren Laberee LabereeFeb 1, 1994 7:42 AM
I've had the same question, with a simple semi-xparent object the rendered file is still only 24 bit in photshop or alchemy. Even on the Vista card there is no image data on the alpha line. It does however work with a file that was provide from an SGI ?
#80293From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Feb 1, 1994 9:53 AM
Darren, << I've had the same question, with a simple semi-xparent object the rendered file is still only 24 bit in photshop or alchemy.>> Render-Setup-Options-Render_alpha=Yes TGA_Depth=24 Alpha_Split=No …should give you a 32 bit file and not a 24 bit file. (see page 7-210 Render-Alpha 1st sentence.) jonas[adesk]
#80346From: Mike KelleyFeb 1, 1994 1:39 PM
You're not rendering with any kind of background are you? — an object against the black default background, so that it will generate the right alpha is the way to go. If you have the settings correct (as Adesk recommends) and render against a black background I don't see how you can't get alpha info. PS should correctly show that file as having alpha when you bring it in (it always has for me).
#80612From: Ron GrantFeb 2, 1994 7:03 AM
Gregory, Here is my checklist for alpha output: 1) File COMPRESSION: OFF! <== Sneaky Item (got me) 2) Background: NONE 3) 24 bpp 4) alpha ON, split OFF The fact that 3DS does not write compressed 32bpp TGA files is a bit of a shame – maybe Truevision never documented such a format? (excuse me if I have botched my reply on this thread. I am using the AutoSig navigator and have had trouble getting message reply to work) Ron Grant – Delta Graphics
#80661From: Feb 2, 1994 10:40 AM
Ron: >> The fact that 3DS does not write compressed 32bpp TGA files is a bit of a >> shame… Are you sure? I seem to recall doing this, or am I mistaken? What program are you taking the file into? Could that be it? Greg Pyros
#80696From: John K. JordanFeb 2, 1994 12:22 PM
>>alpha output… I may have missed something here, but are you saying you can't get 3DS to produce a compressed TGA file with alpha channel data? Something is confused here – I thought I did that all the time. I just ran a test rendering, TGA, 512*486, 24 bpp, no background, alpha as noted: COMPRESSED, NO ALPHA, File Size=248294 COMPRESSED, ALPHA ON, File Size=319584 UNCOMPRESSED, ALPHA ON, File Size=995867 Both files rendered with ALPHA ON display alpha channel in the materials editor and load correctly with alpha into Altamira Composer. Which version of 3DS are you using?
#80853From: Ron GrantFeb 3, 1994 12:04 AM
John, Greg P. and "all readers" Sorry! I botched my claim about "no alpha in compressed files". The real catch (at least in 3DS R2.0) appears to be: With UseAlpha=YES,TGADepth=24,AlphaSpit=OFF: Rendering to Display then saving to disk using SaveLast image results in a save of a 32 bpp file, but one with a solid opaque alpha channel (all 255's). Rendering to Display & Disk generates the same file size, but with a valid alpha channel. (I made sure Background was NONE and Atmosphere NONE) for the above. My display software is a custom animation player for Targa series frame buffers that I will be posting a "probe for interest" in the next day. Thanks for checking out my bogus claim. This forum is wicked. Ron Grant – Delta Graphics
#80881From: Feb 3, 1994 2:20 AM
>> Thanks for checking out my bogus claim. This forum is wicked. That may be the first time it has been called that, but we take it in stride! Did you write the custom animation player? Sounds like fun! >> AlphaSpit=OFF: I'd keep it off, also. Makes for a messy mousepad! <g>
#80920From: Ron GrantFeb 3, 1994 5:15 AM
Greg, >> Did you write the animation player?… Yes, I am a graphics hack from back to Apple II days (1980). I bought 3DS2 and a Targa+ 64 1.5 years ago and have spent a good chunk of time learning 3DS and writing software for Targa board from the ground up. To make my recorder/player ready for the masses I have to go back and add flexible hardware configuration, i.e. IO&Memory map addresses are hardcoded + need to write some documentation… Now that I have corrupted this "missing alpha.." thread I will try to get the description for my player up.
#80930From: Ron GrantFeb 3, 1994 7:01 AM
Greg, >> Alpha Spit=OFF … it makes for a messy mousepad! I couldn't for the life of me figure out what you meant. Then I read the reply again – Oh Sit! I get it. Ron.
#80933From: Ted BoardmanFeb 3, 1994 7:31 AM
I'll bet Ron is from New England, maybe Maine. Wicked is a very old term meaning "great". My grandmother used to use it!! I think I'll go drink a frappe now.<g>
#80990From: Feb 3, 1994 10:40 AM
Ted: Hello again! >> New England… Ah, so AlphaSpit is a term from your area! That explains it! <g> Greg Pyros
#81005From: ALAN IGLESIASFeb 3, 1994 11:10 AM
Are you gonna have a Grinder with that, Ted?<g> -Alan
#81039From: David J. MarksFeb 3, 1994 1:19 PM
>> I think I'll go drink a frappe now.<g> How do you do that up there? Would you get a glass from the cupboard (cabinet), put it on the sideboard (counter-top) and add milk from the ice-box (refrigerator)? Or do you run out to the dooryard (driveway) and hop in the car and get one downtown (1/2 hour away)? Can you even get there from here? <wicked big grin>. If you order a milkshake will they still forget the ice cream? Is it obvious I married someone from a family from up north? BTW — Post production is done on our project. I'll get you a copy.
#81052From: Ron GrantFeb 3, 1994 3:08 PM
David, RE: "wicked" Sorry, I am from Dallas. Y'all take care.
#81532From: Ted BoardmanFeb 5, 1994 3:48 PM
Good one Dave, I'll call you on Monday. TedB
#81899From: David J. MarksFeb 7, 1994 3:43 PM
>> Good one… Ayuh, but only a New Enlander would find the humor in it. <g>
#80972From: Yost GroupFeb 3, 1994 10:00 AM
You are correct, in 3DSr2, the save-last-image function does NOT save the alpha channel. It saves it in r3, however!
#81045From: Ron GrantFeb 3, 1994 2:15 PM
RE: save-last-image now saves alpha in Release 3 Great! I purchased the upgrade a couple of weeks ago and really should have tested it along with Rel 2. Just got a little lazy. 3DS Rel 3 is totally wicked. It really makes we want to meet with other upgrade users in Dallas, read the new features list aloud, so we could all hear a room full of oohs and ahs.