#Camera switching?
19 messages in this thread
Hi all,
Ok, I've read through the manuals thoroughly but can't figure this (seemingly
simple) one out. Is there any way that I can cut between multiple cameras
during an animation by setting it up in the keyframer? I have a scene with 4
carefully tweaked moving cameras, and I'd love to be able to setup the sequence
with automatic cuts between cameras.
Before you answer, _yes_ I know I can just render the segments individually to
single frames and piece them together, and _yes_ I know I can stack them all up
in a Net Queue and batch them out. However, it would save me an enormous amount
of time if I could just keyframe it. All my test anim's are outputted to FLC's
which negates the aforementioned techniques (unless I create a custom palette
prior to rendering and use Video Post to connect them), plus they involve
creating multiple .PRJ files (one for each camera).
If I've missed the obvious here please forgive me, if not, then please consider
this an r5 wishlist item. Maybe it could be done by creating an "active
viewport" parameter or track info dialog.
Thanks for any help on this,
-Heinz Schuller
Fly By Nite Studios
Why would it save you time if you could keyframe it, compared to just rendering
specific ranges out to the Net Queue? It would theoretically take the same
amount of time either way, wouldn't it?
– G
Hi Gary,
->Why would it save you time if you could keyframe it…
I'm presently working for a publisher of interactive CD-ROM's, my destination
format is a FLC file. I'm rendering long complex animations with alot of
"hollywood" style camera work i.e. lots of cuts and wild angle shots.
Reasons:
1. In creating and experimenting with scenes I play alot with the timing of
these cuts and it would help me greatly to be able to visualize them in
wireframe modes as well as rendering quick previews. The people I work for want
to see lots of variations on a theme but hate to wait, and my ability to
communicate concepts quickly loses effectiveness if I have to Net Queue render
a series of segments, then assemble a flic afterwards.
2. Using the Keyman IPAS I'd like to whip up a 1/2 dozen or more versions of
the same sequence with different variations of cut timings. Again here I would
save time not having to post-assemble all this stuff into FLC files, and tweak
all the segment ranges for the variations of cuts. This would also avoid having
to create a myriad of .PRJ files with all the segments for Net Queue rendering.
3. Some of these animations get _reallllong_ and it's more efficent for me to
render to medium palette FLC's instead of filling my disk up with 24-bit single
frames (except maybe for the final version). My resources are limited.
4. Obtaining the ideal custom palette would require me to scan the finished
series of 24-bit images, then post process them into a FLC file using the
palette. I'd rather just hit the "render" button, and come back to an assembled
flic file with an optimum palette.
It's just really about saving steps and enhancing my ability to visualize as
many possibilities as I can in the time allowed. I take it from your answer
that there's no way to keyframe camera switching.
-Heinz.
To key camera switching, there'd have to be an additional track (under the hide
track) in the TrackInfo dialog. But I'm still kind of confused, because
creation of a flic file takes just as long, whether or not you save a series of
jpg images and then process them into a flic, or if you write the flic in real
time. The difference is pretty negligable… I just did a timing here on a
littel 30 frame flic and the overall difference was about 5%.
– G
Hi Gary,
->creation of a flic file takes just as long, whether or not you save a series
->of jpg images and then process them into a flic, or if you write the flic in
->real time.
You're right, I guess I was just looking to save some steps and keep the amount
of disk files (.PRJ & .JPG's) to a minimum. Since you already give the user the
capability to manage multiple cameras in the Keyframer, I just thought a
natural extension of this would be to let the user perform edits in a manner
similar to the way a TV studio does them with multiple cameramen.
Doing this in the keyframer would be a quick and easy way to render a finished
edited sequence with a mimimum amount of hassle. I realize I'm in the minority
here, but a guy can dream, can't he? <g>
Thanks for your help,
-Heinz.
(From another branch of the Yost Group…) You're correct that 3ds won't switch
cameras, since there's no key track for it. As an alternative to rendering
various segments with multiple cameras, you could actually use a single camera,
and abruptly switch its position, FOV, etc., at the frame where you want the
edit. If you use this method, you need to properly adjust either your
Continuity or your Bias properly at the two adjacent frames where the change
takes place. In addition, you can use the Slide function in the Track Info
dialog box on your camera if you want to shift in time where the edit takes
place. Given some practice, you should be able to key an entire scene, with
edits, and play it back in wireframe. I'd also recommend that you work with two
cameras, using the first to set up one shot, then using Track Copy from that to
a second camera and adjusting the second camera for the second shot; when that
looks right, Track Copy from the second back to the first, and so on. (Note:
You wouldn't really need to go through this Track Copy routine. I just like a
lot of backup when I'm playing around.)
– Jack
Very good tip, Jack!
– G
Hi Jack,
->you could actually use a single camera, and abruptly switch its position,
->FOV, etc., at the frame where you want the edit.
That's a great idea! And using the Keyman Ipas I should be able to create the
multiple iterations of cut sequences. Please tell your boss that you deserve a
raise. <g>
Cheers,
-Heinz.
Thanks, but it's not really my idea. Someone mentioned it here on the forum
over a year ago, and I was surprised no one had brought it up in this thread. I
tried it out last night and it works fairly well.
– J
>>All my test anim's are outputted to FLC's which negates the
>>aforementioned techniques (unless I create a custom palette prior to
>>rendering
You're generally better off doing this anyway. Why don't you want to?
Dave
Hi David,
->You're generally better off doing this anyway. Why don't you want to?
Time. I'd really need to render alot of keyframes or the entire anim to come up
with a decent palette. I'd rather let 3DS do the work for me.
Cheers,
-Heinz.
>>Time. I'd really need to render alot of keyframes or the entire anim to come
up with a decent palette. I'd rather let 3DS do the work for me.
If it's time, Custom palette is actually the fastest way of all to produce
FLCs.
If you want, you can automate the creation of a 'custom' palette.
*Using AniPro (or what ever you like) create a dummy FLC somewhere in your NET
MAP PATH. ( I'll call it FOO.FLC)
*Take the animation your working on and net render every 30th (nth) frame (or
less if you feel it's needed) at HIGH palette setting to FOO.FLC – overwriting
the dummy FLC you created in step one.
*Finally use FOO.FLC as your custom Palette (with Release 3 you can use the FLC
directly) and render out your complete animation.
Of course you need to make sure the FOO.flc is done before the other flic is
started. Also, once you have a palette for a given scene, it should work well
for any other camera moves for that same scene.
I hope this helps and for the record, I like you would LOVE to be able to
switch cameras during a single rendering session. One could argue that you
could save time on the loading and setup of the scene (specially if shadows
only need to be generated once), that is if someone needed an argument.
It really isn't a difficult programming task, it's just low on the priority
list. <sigh> Maybe R5…
J-me
Jamie,
PMJI, but I'm confused by your "automatic" custom palette instructions:
1. Why would you need to create a dummy .flc and then overwrite it with a real
one?
2. Why do you recommend "High" palette when the manual states that medium
palette should be used for custom palettes?
Alec Jason
>>1. Why would you need to create a dummy .flc and then overwrite it with a
real one?
Actually, I guess you don't have to, I thought you couldn't specify a file to
use that wasn't there yet, but I was wrong. Alec, you can skip that step. 😉
>>2. Why do you recommend "High" palette when the manual states that medium
palette should be used for custom palettes?
Oh, so the manual is always right! (don't get me started) Actually, the idea
here was to get the MOST color range for the final optimized palette. I suspect
the difference between HIGH and Medium may not be much, but it seemed like it
was important to Heinz, so I suggested that.
J-me
>>Oh, so the manual is always right! (don't get me started)<<
It is in this case. <g>
– J
Hi Jamie,
->I suspect the difference between HIGH and Medium may not be much, but it
->seemed like it was important to Heinz, so I suggested that.
The main thing for me is the processing time. If you render a 1800 frame flic
file on High palette setting, be prepared to wait a while afterwards while the
frames get crunched down to a flic, as well as accumulating a large amount of
stored temporary 24-bit frames. The Medium setting reduces on a frame-by-frame
basis, and the post-processing goes very quickly since the frames are already
reduced to 8-bit, and the program only stores the 8-bit frames temporarily on
your hard drive.
-Heinz.
Hi Jamie,
->*Finally use FOO.FLC as your custom Palette (with Release 3 you can use the
->FLC directly) and render out your complete animation.
Thanks for your suggestions, that's a great idea. I think between yours and
Jack's suggestions I may find a good way to automate this process.
Regards,
-Heinz.
Actually , Heinz, I think there may be another way to render with custom
palette that will even do you a better job. (This may have already been
suggested in this thread, and I just missed it).
If the "scenary" (read: colors and lighting) doesn't change much, you can
render every 200 frames of your 1800 into a 9 frame animation that includes all
the colors/images/objects, then load that flic as the custom pallette. You
accomplish the same thing, and I believe that the overhead and rendering time
is even lower than the last suggestion.
Back the way, I would also like to see keyframing of camera changes as part of
3DS as well.
rw
Hi Robert,
Thanks for your message, a similar method was suggested by Jamie Clay earlier
in this thread. In most cases there's a fair amount of change occurring in
these animations with special effects turning on & off etc.. But for preview &
test animations the method you suggest will work just fine.
Best regards,
-Heinz.