Ultracard *SUPPORT*
29 messages in this thread
I am posting to relay my experiences with Mike Lehman and his company
Intuitive Technologies regarding his product Ultracard. I purchased
Ultracard at AMI-EXPO in July. Upon purchase, I was promised a
"Programmer's Development Kit" in the mail within 1 week. I registered by
writing my name, address and phone number in a notebook at the counter.
When I brought Ultracard home and tried it, I discovered that it was so
buggy as to be useless. After finding notices confirming my experiences
everywhere (from PeopleLink to local BBS's), I sent a private Email to
Mike, explaining my problems. I received a prompt reply that a new version
was almost complete and would be mailed to me within a few days. After
waiting for a week or so, I left another message to Mike, asking for
status. This time I was told to send my original Ultracard disk, with a
SAS envelope, and I would receive the new version, as well as my promised
Development Kit. I mailed the disk and the SAS envelope the same day and
waited two more weeks. I left several more messages to Mike, getting no
reply, then posted a PLINK message to ALL, asking if anyone had heard from
him and wondering if he went out of business. I received several replies
from other PLINKERS, stating Mike was a 1 person company, he was very busy,
be patient and you will certainly get what was promised. This was about
three weeks ago.
Since then I wrote Mike a letter via U.S. Mail, asking again for my new
version and Developers Kit, or for a refund. I have sent him 6 or 7
messages on PLINK. None of these have been answered. Now I understand
that he is a one person company and he is busy, but at this point I am
forced to conclude that he is not planning on honoring his promises. I
guess I am stuck with a worthless piece of software. Now I hear that he is
planning on marketing an upgrade of MAXIPLAN. I hope that he at least
packages this product with the warning "One Person Company – So Don't
Expect Service or Support". I am hoping that this message saves some of
you from the frustration of dealing with Mike and his "company". -Bob
Kelley [C [C [C
Apparently, you're not alone in your dissatisfaction. There have been a
lot of flames on local BBSes with the same complaints. Among others, some
people felt duped by Jay Miner's presence in their booth in Chicago. They
thought he was endorsing the product, and felt let down when the program
was buggy, and when their developer kit never arrived.
Having been reading HyperCard books, but not owning UltraCard, just how
close is it to true HyperCard? Does it have most or all of the same
commands as the Apple product?
I too have had a lot of problems with UC, although being the winner
of a free copy from the conference I really can't complain too much! The
editor is close to unusable and there is virtually no docs. Their BB has
one sample stack which is part 1 of a tutorial, and is excellent. However
it is just part one of MANY parts.
Jay tries to make things very clear that he is not in support of a specific
product. Most of you probably know Jay and realize that he is as much of
an Amiga enthusiast as any of us. It is really unfortunate that people
will assume that because he is interested or enthusiastic about how a
product looks that he is endorsing it.
I know, I thought he'd keep his nose clean in this regard. But I've heard
from lots of people who said he said that every Amiga owner should have
DiskMaster (?) and UltraCard. As can be expected, some people are always
misled.
Syndesis, ————-So you think I havent "kept my nose clean" Mr.
Syndesis?
Mike did not ask me to be in his booth. I felt the product was one that
the Amiga needed desperately, and it must go to the Chicago Ami-Expo. He
was unable to do so. I rented his booth for him and helped him produce the
first disks. He had no one to help in the booth either, so I pitched in
there.
I made no money out of this, Mr. Syndesis, and if this is "endorsing" the
product, then I am guilty. Neither was I helping one product over another,
since there is no competing product on the market yet, just promises.
Yes there have been complaints about bugs, and slow service. Also some feel
I shouldnt give autographs in a booth with a commercial product,
<especially a buggy one!> There is certainly some truth to this, and I will
think about it a lot after this.
Most have been real nice about it, not flames at all. But I dont
understand why you are Fanning these "flames". You tell everybody how
everybody else feels "duped" etc. I wonder why?
"Ive heard it from lots of people who said that he said". Ye Gads, just
listen to yourself.
I never said it was bug free, in fact just the opposite, I said please let
us know if you find any bugs. I did say I thot it was a good product for
teaching and demos. I did not say that "every one should have one". I did
say that C= should give one out with every Amiga, like Apple does with the
Mac. You are right "some people are allways misled". You sure were.
UltraCard (Mike says) is very close in command function and syntax to
HyperCard. "A conveoter or translator should be easy to write."
UltraCard is Amigas answer to the Mac Hypercard. We should all be
celebrating what Mike Lehman is doing for the Amiga and for us. The price
is very low too. The bugs will be (are) fixed, and new disks are going out
as fast as possible.
P.S. Why do you call yourself Syndesis? is that a real name or a company
name?
Jay, I think that your presence IN the booth, not just watching,
implies that you supported the product. Now that isn't necessarily wrong,
and you may have been perfectly right to support the product, but
autographing the program definitely leads people to believe that you are
endorsing the quality of the product. — Ethan
Ethan, Endorse = to express approval of, publically and definitely.
(Webester). So I have to confess that according to this broad definition I
was (and still do) endorse UltraCard.
I think it is a great product even tho I expect bugs to be found. Jay
I just took the fact that Jay was doing that more for a gimmick than actually
endorsing the product….and anyway Jay is just like the rest of us these days
anyhow (am I right in saying that??)…it's just that he had a lot to do with
the Amiga in it's embryonic stage.
C u laitr
Brendan Pratt – Queensland,Australia.
Beautiful one day,
Perfect the next!
This is John Foust, of Syndesis. We've met before. I wasn't fanning the
flames, or at least I didn 't mean to cause trouble. I've got no axe to
grind about UltraCard, I don't own it, I've seen only tiny glimpses of it.
Frankly, I didn't believe the people who told me you were "endorsing" the
product, so I quizzed them further. So I reported what they told me. I
know, it sounds funny when you report second-hand anecdotes like this.
Again, I mean no harm to anyone involved. If anything, I agree with you
completely – I think you should think twice about entering into situations
of this kind, because some people were confused, and that can lead to the
kind of discussions people have been having here and on other BBSes. If you
like, I'll gladly pass on the names and numbers of the people from my local
BBS, who've been confused and are now complaining about the service they've
got.
Bill, what he did can ONLY be described as an endorsement. If it
wasn't intended as such, then he wasn't thinking. He was AUTOGRAPHING
copies of Ultracard and spent a lot of time IN the booth, not just looking
at it.
OK, obviously I was not there. In fairness to Jay though, one should
remember that he is as much of an Amiga Junkie as the worst of us. He
loves people, especially Amiga folks and really enjoys getting into the
middle of a enthusiastic group. While in the past, he has tried to be
careful about appearing to endorse a product, it is very easy for him to
appear to even when he is not intending to do so. He can become intensely
interested in a new product and will spend a great deal of time with the
folks producing the product. Since he is well known, he then gets involved
in discussions about the product and of course people ask him to autograph
things.
Again, of course, you may be right, that is, Jay may very well been
intending to endorse Ultracard.
Ethan Solomita —————-Yes I was "AUTOGRAPHING" (love your
emphasis) copies of the UltraCard disks at the Chicago show. I also have
to CONFESS to spending a lot of time in the booth just like you said. I
even got very tired and also lost my voice. I also autographed any thing
else anybody wanted me to.
I asked people if they would like a brochure, and if they requested me to,
I would try to explain what UltraCard was.
However if a person Volunteers to help, is promised no money, and makes
none, and if there is no competing product, is that somthing that "can
ONLY be described as an endorsement"? (your emphasis). Whatever YOU call
it, I want to emphasize that I was doing exactly what I intended to do.
(whatever that was)
Put any name you want on it, is it bad? I realy feel hurt by that type of
do-gooding and gossip. This product is good for the Amiga, and the only
competition it has is the Mac Hypercard. Think about that, then pitch in
and help. Support your local Programmer. Sincerely, Jay Miner
Jay, if you interpreted what I said as flaming then you
misunderstood. I merely meant to say that what you did would be
"interpreted" by people passing the booth as an endorsement. Imagine if a
rep from Commodore entered MSS's booth and talked to people about the
virtues of Excellence. People would think that CBM was endorsing it. No
flames are intended, but if you felt that you weren't endorsing the product
the widespread impression was that you were. — Ethan
Ethan, I was definately expressing approval of the product. I think it is
more of an endorsement of the Amiga though. If there were a closely
competing product, then it wouldnt be fair, but thats not the case. People
ask me all the time, what spreadsheet do I like best, what flight
simulator, etc. Have I realy lost the right to have an opinion? Could I
ever be a product reviewer? They are ok as long as they dont take money
from the ones they "say" they like.? Some of them are well known too. I
dont expect you to answer all these questions, but Is their opinion or
approval called an endorsement? Jay
You still have every right to express an opinion without openly and
actively supporting something. The problem is, as in politics, that once
people recognize your name anything you say is overplayed. — Ethan
Just leave a message on his board, telling when abd where you bought UC and
that you want access to the new programs. Jay
He knows I have Ultracard. I was the lucky winner of the free doorprize
when he was in the conference about UC. Considering that I didn't pay for it I
feel awkward b*tch*ng about it.
— Ethan
Ethan, You have as much right as any purchaser to the latest version of
UltraCard. Please call Mikes BBS and leave him a note asking for Access to the
latest version. He is back not , working hard, and has made several bug fixes
and improvments. He also has a new demo stack that runs on the new version,
that is outstanding.It is called SamplerStack I beleive. I want him to call it
"UCANTOO " but he hasent yet. (above should be He is back now, not He is back
not. You can also send him a self addressed envelope. He has been taking care
of those quite quickly these days. Or another alternatev, leave me your
address, (EMail) and I will give it to mike personally, along with a note.
Jay
I really hope this won't stop people like Jay from going to these expo's,and
appearing inside people's booths,just so that no-one gets the wrong impressions
of endorsement or otherwise.
C u laitr
Brendan Pratt – Queensland,Australia.
Beautiful one day,
Perfect the next!
Brendan (and all others who have been participating in this thread):
I'm having a difficult time understanding what's going on here. Jay is not the
Pope; he is not the President; he is not the head of a major university; he is
a private citizen, who happens to have been instrumental in creating a machine
we all love.
He has every right in the world to unabashadly endorse anything he d*mn well
pleases, for pay, or for free.
He's already told people that he felt UCard was a badly needed attempt to bring
something new to the Amiga — something important. He knew it would not be
perfect, but he wanted to help get up some interest. If that's an endorsement,
fine. What's wrong with that? The only thing I've heard about Mike's work so
far that I think genuinely deserves criticism is his failure to respond to
questions, complaints, etc. However, he may have some very hard to deal with
time constraints right now that are beyond his control.
RE the program itself: it isn't that much money. It's a great start (I have
it in its 1.21 version). It needs work, but I've had programs I spent four and
five times as much money for, from much bigger firms, that had the same kinds
of problems. Why don't we all get behind Mike, the CanDo folks, the Thinker
folks — give them some slack, help them make the programs better, and let the
best program win. In fact, the chances are that, as with our graphics
programs, there won't be a "best program", just ones which are better at some
things than others.
Ray Lewis
I'm surprised to hear you taking a position like this… Not pointing this
argument at any specific company, but tell me what is a proper consumer
response to bugs or broken promises? I'm busting my butt to make sure all my
customers are happy, and that we fix bugs ASAP if they're spotted. We've never
shipped anything that crashes out of the box. All our reviewers have all
specifically noted the apparent robustness of our programs, that they couldn't
get them to crash or act funny, no matter what they did. If you're telling me
that my customers will suddenly start "cutting me some slack", that's great
news, I can start more vacations, and getting more sloppy in my coding. – John
Foust
Jay,
After hearing and seeing all the flames, I have to agree with the
interpretations of both others and yourself. You WERE endorsing the
product.
Now, is that good or bad? From your perspective (which honestly, I have to
agree with), the product is one-of-a-kind in the Amiga community, and
answers MAC-aholics who reply to anything Amigoids say about the Amiga with
"But *WE* have Hypercard" Sure, the answer to that might be Ultracard, but
it can also be (with appropriate programming, and THERE's the hitch) ARexx
with SCRIPIT.
From the perspective of a potential developer, I think that there is little
question that Mike Lehman has begun burning his bridges and not supporting
this the way he should. Whether he needs help (I think he does, based –
again – on the flames I have read), is NOT for me to say. What I think
that I can say, unequivocally, is that (a) your endorsement helped him, (b)
it is unfortunate that if he fails in his efforts, your name might be
dragged through some form of a dirt in aqueous suspension (mud) and (c) He
and the Amiga NEED to have this product in SOME form for the MACaholia
response team.
Gabe,
I think your comparison of ARexx/Scripit to HyperCard underestimates the
significance of HyperCard. HyperCard changed the playing field by making
software development intuitive, allowing users to develop with graphics; by
levelling the complexity of the development environment; and by providing
extensible yet simple programming concepts with enough professional examples of
its use to provide inspiration and tools for even non-artists.
I don't see interface BUILDING as the primary role of ARexx/Scripit without
some MAJOR add-ons or change in philosophy, programs and interfaces in a
multitasking system.
We don't need hypermedia on the Ami in order to one-up Mac-aholics, that isn't
an end in itself. We need enough creative Amiga software of ALL types to
improve the Amiga's software base and create the same friendly image (among the
computer-buying community) the Mac now enjoys.
Not acknowledged yet in this thread is the fact that there IS competition for
Mike in the form of CanDo, demo available at a theater near you. God only
knows when THEY'LL get the product out the door…
*** John
John,
There is (or shortly will be) an updated CanDo demo in Lib 1.
I don't consider CanDo competition for UltraCard — it's rather hard to
compete with an unreleased product. INOVAtronics is quoting an Oct 15th
release day. I hope they make it (or within 30 days of that).
John,
I did not mean to say that ARexx/Scripit can do all that Ultrcard could.
Certainly the user interface permitting user "programming" is the most powerful
aspect of that. MY point was that "glue"ing apps together is just as DOABLE in
the AREXX SCRIPIT combo as in ultracard.
–Gabe
Bob Kelley ———MIke usually gives good support. I dont know exactly
why he was deficient in this case, but he realy has been working himself
almost to death fixing bugs and mailing out new disks.
He is not a 1 man company anymore. His wife is helping him now and he
should be caught up with the mailing "real soon now" 8^)
Mikes BBS is now set up so that he can give you access to directly download
the Main program as well as many stacks. Otherwise you see only the browser
and a stack. (I just called it)
All of the material that you see in UltraCard (actually you see only the
stacks) was written in UltraCard itself. So that is an example of what CAN
be written, with a "program so buggy as to be useless". Buggs Happen!.
This kind of program has been lacking on the Amiga for a long time, and
Mike couldnt even afford to take it to the show! I helped him with the
booth at the show because of this, not as proof that it had no bugs. He
found several at the show in fact and squashed them there.
I know Mike to be an honest man,as well as a good programmer, and he will
honor his promises. Please please hold on a little longer, and give him
time to dig himself out of this hole. You cant imagine the kinds of trouble
he has had.
Thanks, Jay Miner