#Need VTR! Help!
28 messages in this thread
We are in need of a VTR. In the past we have sent our work out to
service bureaus to render to video. Now its time to bite the bullet.
I am looking for suggestions, recommendations, maybe some used
equipment. Our main rendering machine is a 486 DX66 EISA/VLB with
Viper card, Targa 64+, 32mb ram, 1 gig hd with Adaptec Fast SCSI
ctrlr, 20'' Viewsonic, and NEC External MultiSpin CD, DOS 5.0 and 3DS
R3. This machine is 3d dedicated so I have no other drivers running
other than that required to run 3DSR3 and the NEC Multispin. Any
suggestions on a VTR and Controller by E-Mail or by phone will be
most helpful.
Jim Alabiso
[PolyGone Cafe']
Walnut Creek, CA
510-299-2512 Wk
510-932-1843 Hm
404-906-9070 Cel (Atl)
I like your company name Polygone Cafe – your business card should
read "come in for an animation and an espresso" <g>.
Anyway, I digress. You have several options, most of which are
controlled by your budget. For $3000 retail you could get a Sanyo
GVS950 s-vhs which _includes_ a controller. For $4000 retail you
could get a Sony SVO9600 s-vhs and you'd need a controller – I like
Diaquests dq422 but they are outrageously expensive ($2500 or so) and
everything is extra – I've only ever used _other_ people's. There are
other controllers for around $1000, namely Animax by Videomedia and
SoftVTR (software only controller). Look for a new feature called
Quickpass, Fastpass or similar which can lay down more than one frame
per preroll sequence. Make sure it can be done on the deck you intend
to buy. At the high-end of vtr's you are looking at $9-$10k for a
Sony UVW-2800(?) which is a low-end betaSP deck and would need a
controller, also. For $16k you could get the Sony PVW-2800, a tried
and tested industrial strength betaSP deck which I like a lot.
My personal choice under $20k would be a Sony PVW-2800 ($16k), and a
diaquest dq422 with Quickpass. To make the best use of the bandwidth
available on this deck you'd probably should get a framebuffer which
supports higher horizontal resolutions than the targa+64. The
AT-Vista and the Matrox Illuminator pro come to mind ($4600 and $3700
respectively). Now I've woken up and realise I don't have that much
money to spend _another_ alternative would be a high-quality JPEG
card (like the DPS Personal Animation Recorder for about $2500 with
dedicated hardisk) for high-quality previews and possibly final
output; and, an Exabyte tape backup for transfer of your rendered
images to Abekas (a digital disk recorder of D1 quality) and then to
your choice of D1, D2 or BetaSP. This would give your the best
quality for the least money, but you'd still have to deal with a
service bureau or post production house in most cases. Phew! Take
you pick….
Thanks for your comprehensive reply (and your compliment on the
company name 🙂 ). I put your reply to hardcopy and will explore
each of these options. Looks like I am stuck with the Targa 64
though for a while. The bucks are just getting way out there! Heck,
one could spend more money on SIMMS than a frame buffer!
BTW, Diaquest has dropped their prices. They retail a 422 solution
for about $1295. They also have a QuickPass for Windows solution.
QuickPass dumps multiple frames per pass to save on pre-roll time.
Actually I may have the price wrong. I really don't have to deal with
the money, simply getting the jobs done.
if $1295 is the new price for a dq422+ then that would be competitive.
Robert,
You got the price wrong, but you're right in that they're temporarily
lower. Anyway, Diaquest has promotional pricing to introduce their new
Windows-based software & QuickPass, only through 12/31/93. The DQ422+ w/Action
Animator is $1495 ($3270 regular pricing). The same bundle with QuickPass PC
is $1995 (regularly $3865). Cables are additional, depending on VTR.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Kevin,
is there are bundle with a dq422+ and quickpass, but not Action Animator? Or
are they inseperable.
Martin,
PMJI, but I got a chance to see Quick Pass at Diaquest last week and it is
simply awesome. Howard (their animator) dumped about 150 or so frames without
quick pass from within 3DS and it took about 20 minutes or so give or take.
With quick pass he dumped 600 frames in the same amount of time. The program is
fantastic – for doing single frame I think it's the only way to go. If you have
a DQ board of course….
Dave Mennenoh
David,
sounds pretty good to me. However, for $2k which is the special offer price,
you are in the approximate range of a nice JPEG card and dedicated hardrive
(DPS Personal Animation Recorder). If I had that kind of money to spend, which
I don't, I'd choose the latter. Then when I had another spare $2k or so, I'd
buy an Exabyte 8505 and use that for backup and layoff to Abekas. It's all
theory, though, since most of my work is flics currently.
Martin,
Yeah, I don't have anywhere near the $2K either but it was sure nice to see it
in action going out to a Sony Beta SP decj\k. Makes ya drool. Most of what I do
is .FLC also so it's all pretty much just "fantasy" anyway.
Dave
David,
but "I want my fantasy, and I want to live it too!" Marie Antoinette (maybe). I
do mostly flics but I think the DPS PAR will let me do video stuff without the
pain.
V-LAN owners will have a free multi-frame per pass utility coming to them
shortly. It does the same thing Diaquest's does, but it'll have a much less
elegant interface, I'm sure. I hope Diaquest's interface is a thousand bucks
worth of prettiness, though…
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
Or you could get a V-LAN controller and a multi frame pass utility for free!
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
I'm trying to avoid frame-by-frame output entirely, it's full of
pitfalls and has caused me beaucoup grief in the last couple of
months. Long live realtime! Motion JPEG and DDR's (Abekas etc) are
the way to go.
Hi Jim. I didn't realize you were local, more or less (I'm in SF).
Martin listed the options quite nicely, I think. I have a Sony
SVO9600 PRO (S-VHS), but got it for $3200. I use V-LAN Animax, which
I love. Videomedia has a utility that will be free upon official
release that records several frames per pass, eliminating the need to
record each frame on a single edit. It is similar to Diaquest's
Quickpass.
I also use the Exabyte tape drive to store YUV images converted from
.TGA (RGB) via ASDG drivers, then bring the tape in to a service
bureau with an Abekas A66. I can have my digital component animation
layed down to whatever tape format I choose (D1, D2, Beta Digital,
Beta SP, etc…) for truly high-end output. You can't get better
than that, and it costs $0.14 per frame, typically.
I'm also going to check out the new Matrox MAX, a digital disk device
that will play back jpegged image files at 30 frames/ 60 fields per
second and comes bundled with the Illuminator Pro which has on board
CCIR-601 circutry.
If I had my choice and the buisness to justify it, I'd look into
buying the new Beta Digital format. It's just a hair less quality
than D1, and costs WAY less.
Thanks John, I've heard alot of good things about the SVO9600. Yeah,
if I had my druthers (and the bucks) I'd go for the Beta Digital.
Good to hear from someone in SF. I've been out here since August.
Don't know how long I'll be here though. Been out here on some
unrelated work. Is there some 3d fellowship out here, like an UG or
something?
There's a users group here, but it's really big, and the only times I
went I found myself in a frigging 2 hour sales pitch rather than a
users group. If there's one thing that really pisses me off, it's
waking up early Saturday morning to listen to people try and sell me
stuff. Someone feel free to jump in and tell me things are
different, then I'll show up again. Give me a call if you feel like
it (415) 673-0812.
>> Someone feel free to jump in and tell me things are different, then I'll
>> show up again.
I don't know John. Isn't that what a user's group is for? To get
together a group of people big enough so that hardware and software
developers will come out and show you all their new goodies? I've
been a member of the San Francisco PC User's Group for @ 9 years and
have enjoyed seeing new "stuff" and listening to some great sales
pitches by speakers like Alan Ashton and Philippe Kahn. I guess it's
all a matter of perspective.
Having said that, MY reason for not attending our local 3DS user's
group is that IMHO they want too much money for only 6 meetings a
year. Oh well.
PMJI, but I, too, do not want to go to a user group meeting that is a
sales pitch. I want so-and-so to tell me the hell he or she went thru
to do such-and-such and that after all that realized that "if only
I'd done *this* it would have been *so* much easier!" I can research
stuff to buy as well as I need to without subjecting myself to an
entire sales pitch. I want to discuss *methods* with *users*! FWIW
Yeah, the meetings are overpriced. I like finding out about the
latest goodies, too, but can't stand sitting in a formal sales
hype/pitch meeting at 10 am on Saturday morning. I'd rather be
climing in Yosemite or cycling up Mt. Tam. No contest! There are
so many other ways of finding out about new stuff, and so many
salesmen who salivate at the thought of pitching it to me between
Monday and Friday.
Agreed, Saturday mornings aren't the best time for a sales pitch. I
prefer evening meetings. Much more civilized.
FWIW, our SoCal user group rarely has sales pitches. We do more of
the show-and-tell, or how-to-do meetings. Once we get bigger and the
word gets out, then we'll probably have the sales reps asking for the
opportunity to speak. We also don't have a cover charge.
My only problem is with the Saturday morning schedule. I'm a night
creature and this is seriously a bad time for me – especially if I'm
doing a demo.
Sounds like your meetings are the kind I'm looking for. It's a bit of
a commute for me though, six hours drive. I'm a late nighter myself,
and 10am is an early morning for me, especially where work is
concerned.
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
We have a great 3DS user group here — we meet early on a Friday
night, say 7pm, and go until about 9pm. We show our tapes and talk
about our trials and tribulations to get such-and-such an effect,
etc. Those who are still in heated discussion at 9pm take the
meeting to the local pub, while the rest of us wander off to our
normal social life. Dealers are banned from attendance. We each
pitch in $5 per meeting to pay for the pizza and beer. It's a lot of
fun and all twelve of us have become great friends.
Unfortunately the group is in Australia, which is one hell of a
commute. But it would be worth it, *trust* me. It's beautiful here
this time of year. <g> We'd even cut you a special rate as an
"international" member. (O for teleconferencing to be a real thing)
Michele –
Glad to see you back on the forum. 'Twas a true pleasure to meet
you in S.F. at the university.
Talk to you soon,
|-\\/
MB: …the group is in Australia, which is one hell of a commute. But it would
be worth it, *trust* me. It's beautiful here this time of year. <g>
Michele!
It was great chatting with you at AutoDesk U. Glad you found some yogurt with
active what-ever-the-heck-they're-called cultures! <g> Do you think the new
NAAUG International MM SIG representative could arrange discount transportation
to your User Group meetings? Or how about virtual tickets?
– Dave
You just gave me an idea — perhaps in my travels as NAAUG rep, as I
find (or start) user groups I could videotape a few meetings, then
edit together the more interesting bits. This will give you
Americanos an idea of how we do things in other countries.
Of course this will take a few years, so you'll just have to hang in
there. A quicker project would be editing together a "3DS Down Under"
reel. There's some great stuff going on here with Glenn Melenhorst,
another company called Bump Map, another one called Animated fx, and
the South Brisbane Community College is also teaching 3DS as a
regular part of their curriculum (you can chat with teacher Garry
Hargreaves on this forum!).
Austrlians tend to be very modest people and don't think their work is
up to international standard. I disagree, so maybe a tape is in
order. To send it around I'd have to charge a small fee to cover
costs.
What do you think? Would you pay $10 to see a 15-minute tape of
Australian animation? Anyone else want to respond?
We use Topas with PVW2800 & BCD5000 controller – works exceptionally
well – also, you may need a simple Faroudja transcoder for RGB to
component in. Regards, Don