CompuServe Thread

#Flyer Inputs

35 messages in this thread
#98711From: Fred BerneyJan 12, 1995 9:23 PM
Frank, I keep reading threads that talk about loosing two inputs on the Toaster when you use the Flyer. I think that all four inputs are still usable. I haven't tried three and four yet, but I'll give them a try tomorrow. The Flyer comes with a S-VHS input and an RCA video input, L & R channel audio inputs and outputs, both RCA plugs. At first I thought that you had to go into the Flyer via its own input, but I found out that you can use the Toaster inputs. The Flyer switcher shows video input, audio input and Toaster Output. You can do a freeze frame in the Toaster and then punch the Toaster output button and feed that freeze frame to the input of the Flyer. I know that this may not seem to make sense, but at the time I did it there was a good reason. I was trying to do a frame store. I had just plug in the Flyer and a clint walked in and I need to take a frame from video and convert it to a computer graphic. I could not find the normal freeze and save button that is on the Toaster Setup menu. So, I grabbed it through Toaster Paint and then grabbed it again in the Flyer. It was the long way around to do it, since after spending most of yesterday on the unit, I have learned almost all of the menus. I am going to spend some time tomorrow figuring out the rest and I'll try and be more concise. Fred
#98723From: Michael MiloffJan 13, 1995 12:10 AM
When you're in the Project/Switcher screen hit F10 and voila the old toaster controls, including frame freeze options (also project select which dowsn't do anything anymore, RGB/PREVIEW select, background/effect colors, etc.). F10 on any other screen gives you rudimentary settup options – if you do this then go back to the project switcher you get the rudimentary screen, but do it a couple of times and your back to the big settup screen. On the other hand this may all have changed on the "Under Construction" .9 disks which I just picked up and haven't loaded yet. We'll see tomorrow. TTFN Russ Spencer / MM
#98734From: Fred BerneyJan 13, 1995 7:09 AM
I just tried the F10 key from the Project/Switcher screen and got some kind of a setup screen with an option to go to the RGB or Preview screen. The only other options seemed to be choice of 4 inputs. You gave me the idea of playing with the F keys, so I found that F9 jumps you to the large Project screen. F5 brings up color bars and F4 gave me the Toaster 4000 screen that you see when you first boot up. Although it may just be whatever is in one of the buffers. I have a monitor with two inputs. One input give me the output of my VCR which give me the output of the Toaster. The other input is the Preview monitor from the Toaster. I noticed that when I had the color bars up on the screen and switched between the RGB and Preview switch, the sharpness inproved on the Preview output. Any idea why? I went to every other Flyer View Screen and pressed F10, but all I got was the same setup options, so I guess they changed the option on the .9 disks. What happens when you pull up a video clip and use the control button. When you slide the slider to change the starting or ending point of the clip and you leave it at one setting, does the still image on the screen jump? I get the same kind of image you get when you try and freeze a video on the Toaster. Fred
#98737From: Michael MiloffJan 13, 1995 7:39 AM
Fred, F1 to F6 switch between Inputs, DV1,2 & 3. That's why you got the opening screen and color bars – if you load other graphics, they will appear when pushing F4 or F5. Guess we'll have to find another method to do prior settup functions if ver. .9 has changed F10 settup screen. Output was sharper with the Preview overlayed on the preview monitor??? I'll check later but sounds kind of nuts. I don't understand your question about jumping stills when you move the in/out video clip sliders. Please rephrase. Till later, Russ
#98791From: Fred BerneyJan 13, 1995 7:04 PM
Michael, Correct my statement about the Prefiew monitor. I read the wrong thing. However, when I switch between the progam out and the monitor out, the monitor out looks better. Of course the program out is going through an MX-50 and then a JVC-BRS-810. I'll try doing a direct connection and see what it looks like. The jumping I am talking about. OK. Select a video clip. Go to control. Move the slider so that you see video on your monitor. Now, leave the slider in one position. You now have a freeze frame on the screen. Does it jitter? Maybe it is suppose to. But I get the same kind of jitter during an effect between two scenes. Fred
#98972From: henry tellerJan 15, 1995 4:11 PM
PMFJI – When the Flyer is set to Project/Switcher mode and the left mouse is clicked in the Project (top) window, F10 reveals GPI/Termination/and Preview monitor selection. When you click in the Swither window (bottom), you get the full Setup screen from Toaster 3.1. If found that the Help key will reveal this also, but I don't remember if it only works in a certain environment. Hank Videology, Inc Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all circumstances.
#98999From: Fred BerneyJan 15, 1995 6:54 PM
Henry, This refers to the Setup Screen from Toaster 3.1. When I pressed the help key, I found no reference to this. But, I may have had the upper screen highlighted. I'll go to the bottom screen and see what happens. Lots of undocumented stuff. Fred
#99010From: henry tellerJan 15, 1995 10:16 PM
Fred I found out about it from tech support. And even the tech was trying to remember what the sequence was. It seems you must make the switch window active and then hit F10. If the project window is active, F10 gives you the short screen with the GPI, input termination and preview monitor options. Hank Videology, Inc Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all circumstances.
#98735From: henry tellerJan 13, 1995 7:29 AM
PMFJI – I believe the Flyer S-VHS input is for the future TBC. At present it isn't connected to anything. These guys sure have alot more things for the Flyer then currently announced. Hank Videology, Inc Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all circumstances.
#98790From: Fred BerneyJan 13, 1995 7:04 PM
Henry, You are correct. NewTek told me today that neither the SVHS nor the video jack are connect on the Flyer. I am having a big problem. When I try to do an effect between two scenes, the Flyer causes the out going scene to freeze. Also, my big 9GB drive now tells me I have only 21 minutes of recording space on it. There are no files on the drive. I tried defragging this drive, using the reorgnization command on the Flyer, but that just took a split second, which means the drive is empty. Fred
#98833From: Michael MiloffJan 14, 1995 2:24 AM
Don't like the sound of that 21 minute 9 gig drive problem. Our 9 gig hasn't arrived yet. Please let us know if you find out anything and hope you get it resolved. Russ / MM
#98856From: Fred BerneyJan 14, 1995 8:25 AM
Russ, I did a reorig of the disk and the 21 minutes stayed. Then since there was nothing important on the drive I went an reformatted it. This did it and the 48 remaining minutes came back. I noticed that none of my utility software can read the actual size of my 9GB disk. The window that appears when you click on the disk in Workbench reads 500 and some megs. Opus does the same. The Flyer telling me that I have 48 minutes is the only way I could tell that the drive is that large. The 2gb give you about 10 minutes. Fred
#98867From: Frank VanellaJan 14, 1995 11:43 AM
Fred, AmigaDos uses some sort of special offset adressing method for it's file system. From what I have been told, the largest HD that it will recognize properly is 6 gig. Even though the entire 9 gig drive is there, Amigados can only see 6 gigs even if you partition it. Frank
#98939From: Michael MiloffJan 15, 1995 6:33 AM
Whew! Just about as we had calculated. Maybe we should bug the Opus people to catch up with the technology? RUSS / Mike
#98973From: henry tellerJan 15, 1995 4:11 PM
Since you didn't say, is the 9GB a Newtek certified drive? I don't think it should effect the capacity, but who knows. When I loaded a framestore on a flyer drive and then placed it between two clips, it effected the start of the first clip. Newtek recommended that all framestores be stored on other than Flyer drives. Note the in and out points on the scenes. They may be forcing a delay to give the effect enough time. Also, it could be a bug, since this is Beta software. Be sure to alert Newtek. Hope I've helped some. By the way, what video jack on the Flyer isn't active? I only noted the SVHS, which I believe is the front for the TBC to come. The remaing five RCA jacks are stereo in and out and time code in. Hank Videology, Inc Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all circumstances.
#98995From: Fred BerneyJan 15, 1995 6:43 PM
Henry, Boy, am I getting mis-information. Or are we both? Computer Basics told me that it was fine to store Framestores on the Flyer disk. To quote them "that's what they are there for". IOW it was not suppose to effect the useage of the drives. Computer Basics also pointed to each of the RCA jacks, which as you know are not marked, and there is not mention of them in the manual, and told me that starting with the jack next to the SVHS that they are Video IN, Audio IN L/R, Audio OUT L/R. I may have the L/R reversed. But, the audio and video are correct. Then when I spoke to NewTek, they told me that both the SVHS and the VIDEO jack were not connected. They never told me it was TC. Do you mean to say, I can send TC into the Flyer. I thought that I kept reading or hearing that this version didn't support TC. Are we all getting the same boards? The problem I have is placing two video clips next to each other and then putting ANY effect in between. Dissolve, digital, wipe, KIKI Fairy. It doesn't matter which effect. The outgoing scene freeze at the point where the effect would start. Then the new scene comes in, in full motion. It is only the outgoing scene that I am having problems with. I've tried adjusting the starts and ends of the scenes and the effects. Nothing has any effect – no pun entended. I, like you, noticed that if you are going to put in a freeze frame, you have to put a live action scene in first. I'm sure this is another bug. There are many times when you will want to open with a still image and then go to live action. Henry, I didn't think this was suppose to be Beta software. I was told that this was another release after the Beta release. I was also told that there is suppose to be another set of 3 1/2" disk coming out next week. But, NewTek is NOT calling it an upgrade. Don't most companies pay people to run Beta versions of their products. Parson's Technology use to send me the regular release a not cost for the programs that I beta tested. I'm glad I never mentioned to my banker that this was a kind of beta release. He would have never loaned me the money. Which just proves that all of us video people are nuts. The least NewTek could do is give us earlier buyers an 800 number to call. Well, wait, I can't complain. Look at the price I paid. Anybody ordering after June 30th had to pay more. I hope you and everybody who reads that above paragraph takes it with all of the humor that it was intended to be. This system plays back a picture that looks absolutly great. Once we find out what is causing my problem and solve it, it will be a dynamite system. And when the entire 4.0 is finally released… Fred
#99011From: henry tellerJan 15, 1995 10:16 PM
The rules keep changing. I have digitized video from a Beta SP source using the Toaster's Input 1 and the audio RCA jacks you referred to. I was told by another dealer that the first RCA jack (the one next to the SVHS connector) was for time code input. On a recent post here, I was told the serial connectors, ported with the SCSI cables, are for the timecode. I guess I'll call Newtek tomorrow. I've used framestores for the first frame, and placed dissolves, and other effects/wipes, between two clips. The only time there was a problem is when one of the croutons was a framestore which was stored on a flyer video drive. I've used other framestores with not problems and will try the old one once my flyer is running again. I hope it's not the power supply. BTW – I believe the flyer drive treats the framestore as a continuous video stream if its on the flyer video drive, where is loads the framestore into a frame buffer otherwise. This might cause the A/B conflict which stutters the video. I used the setup screen to create framestores for background colors and can now start any clip sequence with a black background, dissolving to the first crouton. Hank Videology, Inc Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all circumstances.
#98996From: Fred BerneyJan 15, 1995 6:43 PM
>>Since you didn't say, is the 9GB a Newtek certified drive? I don't think it should effect the capacity, but who knows.>> Yes, all of the three drives are NewTek certified. At least they better be, I paid the price. When I re-formated the A drive, I noticed that my three drives are the following 9GB is a Seagate 2GB is a Quantum 540 audio drive is a Quantum I remember in the list you posted a few days ago, you said that the 2GB were IBM. Does this just mean that Newtek has approved other manufacturers? Fred
#99012From: henry tellerJan 15, 1995 10:16 PM
I got a fax last week from Newtek indicating that a 2GB Quantum and a 9GB Micropolis are now certified. My supplier said they already had the Quantum in stock, so that may be what you got. You can always check, because the drive will have a 'Newtek Certified' sticker on it. The original 2GB drives are IBM. Any fast SCSI drive will work on the Audio ("C") SCSI port, so the Q540 is great. I'll update my Flyer info file and repost it this week. Hank Videology, Inc Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all circumstances.
#98752From: Frank VanellaJan 13, 1995 11:41 AM
Fred, Thanks for the info on Flyer input/outputs. I look forward to getting more info as it becomes available. Frank
#98792From: Fred BerneyJan 13, 1995 7:04 PM
Frank, You still don't have your Flyer. You are on the west coast. Closer to Kansas than we, I think. What are they using? Mule Trains. Wells Fargo Stage Coach? Seriously, unless you are a lot luckier than me. Don't plan on doing any real production when it arrives. Use the time to learn it, but if you are now using the Toaster, keep it on your system until NewTek works out some of these problems. Fred
#98828From: Frank VanellaJan 14, 1995 12:45 AM
Fred, My unit was ordered thru Computer Basics (AmigaMan) and supposedly it will ship in the first pre-order group of 50 that were pre-paid with deposits. They charged my credit card in late December saying at that time that in a few days ALL pre-orders would be filled. Obviously Amigaman has no control over Newtek and circumstances have lead me to believe that perhaps I am luckier NOT to have recieved one of the very first units. I have been unexpectedly busier than usual for this time of the year, and if Flyer software is as fragile as you and others have reported, I would have been in deep doo with paying clients. Gee what a concept; a paying client expecting to get professional performance for the money they spend. I wonder if Newtek considers me a "paying client" now that they already have my money? <g> Hopefully my unit will show up in the next few days and I'll have the time to really get to know it before I begin to reveal it's magic to my clients. Regards FRank
#98834From: Michael MiloffJan 14, 1995 2:28 AM
Dont't mean to rain on your parade but I don't think NewTek is shipping production versions as (even if prepaid). I would expect that they are waiting for more feedback from Dealer Demo Beta units. Hope I'm wrong for your sake. Good Luck. RUSS SPENCER / MM
#98842From: Gary KleinerJan 14, 1995 3:09 AM
Russ, Don't mean to clear up your rainstorm, but my Flyer IS from computer basics. Regards, Gary
#98942From: Michael MiloffJan 15, 1995 7:12 AM
I suspect Canadian dealers are typically being put on the back-burner re: delayed shipping. On the other hand it's possible that the units recieved by Computer Basics (and maybe others) were actually originally destined to be Beta Tester or Delear Demo units but were cancelled orders when NewTek decided to charge for these units and, indeed, charge $1500 more than the pre-order price (alot of people were pretty upset when NT announced this pricing). I have a buddy who cancelled his Beta order to await production shipping (he also had a pre-order in with a dealer) – he is still waiting. So we are all pulling for NewTek to get rolling ASAP. I thing NewTek had only orderred about 300 Beta-Dealer units, so this may be the number now in user hands. Where did that 900 number (no not phone number) come from? So far I've only counted about 20 people corresponding on Compuserve and the NewTek BBS who have Flyers in thier hands. Later – RUSS
#98865From: Frank VanellaJan 14, 1995 11:43 AM
Michael, Thanks for your message. Yes I am fully aware that they are only shipping the \.9 version. The dealer called me back in December to ask me if I would be willing to accept the .9 version until the final version (then expected 2nd week of Jan) was automaticly shipped to me when ready. Even with supposed "final" versions of software, there are always bugs or unnaceptable work arounds. At least this time Newtek was being much more up-front about the issue. Frank
#98854From: Fred BerneyJan 14, 1995 8:25 AM
Frank, Computer Basics is the same place I got mine. They told me on Monday, that on Saturday they had received two unit. One was mine. But, somebody forgot to tell me to come up Monday morning. Then on Monday, they receive, what they said, was a bunch of units. When I called them on Wednesday to talk about my problem, I could not get anyone in tech support to answer the phone. I called the 800 number and was told by one of the salesman that Doug Smith and Jim were busy building Flyers and could not be disturbed. Jim finally called me back at about 4 in the afternoon. Figure you are five days shipping via UPS, you'll probably get your unit early next week. Do you mean to say, they charged the entire purchase price to your credit card back in December. I thought companies only put charges through at the time of shippment. You might want to call your credit card company and tell them. The least they could do is back off the interest until you actually receive your Flyer. ""Gee what a concept; a paying client expecting to get professional performance for the money they spend."" I had the same feeling as I was driving home yesterday. I didn't pay for a Beta version. When I spoke to NewTek on the phone, they told me that they had no idea why my Flyer is doing what it is doing. But, if only a few units are performing this way, then they need to give me either a new board or new software and that should fix it. Fred
#98866From: Frank VanellaJan 14, 1995 11:43 AM
Fred, When my credit card bill showed up I was on the phone instantly to Computer Basics. They were very apologetic, explaining that Newtek had promised them immediate shipment (within a couple of days) as soon as the money was wired to them in Kansas. Apparently a last minute snafu (or several) delayed shipment of the software. Personally I feel that this is unfortunate for Newtek, as much of their professional reputation has eroded seriously in the last year. They really didn't need this delay from a PR standpoint, and I am hopeful that these setbacks are minor. On the other hand, with as much money at stake for me personally (in excess of 8k) I am becoming less understanding as each day passes without even as much as a phone call from my dealer regarding the statuus of my order. I have to take the initiative to contact them every few days. BTW, they will be sending my unit next day air when it ships. Shipping the unit ground doesn't really save much because the insurance on this size puchase (over 80%) is the bulk of the total shipping expense. Frank
#98875From: Fred BerneyJan 14, 1995 1:07 PM
Frank, If Computer Basics has not yet shipped your unit, you may be waiting a little longer. I just spoke to them today, to see if I could get a replacement card just in case that was the problem. I was told they have nothing in house. NewTek is rationing the dealers. Send just so many to each one. I am told my problem may be a software one. The cards are suppose to be really hi-tech. When they had an overheating problem, they solved it via the software. Speaking of the cards, I asked NewTek what they were going to do about the two video input jacks that are not now connected. Are they going to have to send everybody a new card when they finally figure out how to make it work. The answer I got was "maybe". I wonder if anybody even thought of this. The tech I spoke to at NewTek seemed to sound like that was an area than was not covered. I can just see, (what are there – about 900 owners) everybody getting this little wiring schematic and maybe jumping cable. This is one time, I think NewTek jumped the gun and let a system go out the door too soon. From what I heard, they had to ship by the end of the year. Was that a financial reason. The dealers had to pay in advance. So, maybe they needed this vast income to cover something and shipping now gave them the money. You've got over 8K invested, I had over 11K considering my down payment. I'm sure those figures are pretty close to average. Multiply that times almost 1000 units and thats somewhre around 8 to 10 million dollars. I wish I could figure out a way to bring in that much at one moment in time. I was going to suggest changing the subject heading on this thread, and then I noticed I mentioned the video inputs so that makes it kosher. How is the weather your way. I know that southern CA has been getting lots of rain and flooding, but as I understand it, so has the northern area. Everything ok in your neighborhood? I have an aunt and uncle that live in San Jose. When we lived there way back when, they use to tell me that when the big earthquake came, those in San Jose would have water front property – the Pacific Ocean. May not need to wait for the earthquake. Fred
#98927From: Wayne ColeJan 15, 1995 1:26 AM
Frank Safe harbor pulled a fast one on me – maybe AmigaMan did it to you. I ordered the Flyer back in June at the introductory price, paid the deposit and sent them the serial number particulars. Before I left for Holidays I called them to confirm my order and to say that should it ship while I was away that I did want it and could use CD-Rom. Well, two weeks after I talked to the guy handling the Flyer orders, he called for me, but I wasn't here. So, when I got back I was surprised to find no FLyer here. When I called Safe Harbor I found out they had shipped all the "pre-orders" except mine which the gave to a new order. They then moved me to the bottom of the list of 1.0 orders they had as if I was a new order. I'm not a happy camper and will not be getting my Flyer drives from Safe Harbor I can tell you…. wmc – via Autopilot!
#98820From: Nicholas A. PatrinJan 13, 1995 11:24 PM
Fred, I (we all) appreciate your posting your discoveries about your Flyer. Do you have any info about slo-mo capability….loading a motion clip at regular speed and having it come out at, say, half speed? Nick
#98825From: Fred BerneyJan 14, 1995 12:00 AM
Nick, If I could figure out what I did to get slow motion, I could probably make a fortune selling the commands to NewTek.(g) I really don't know what caused it. It happened again this evening. I recorded two clips and they both played back in slow motion. Then I re-booted, recorded two new clips and they were normal. It may be related to the problem I am having with the video doing a freeze frame during an effect. Have you tried recording at the extended play speed. I ran a one hour clip today at that speed and the system would not play it back. Got an error saying that it could not read the clip. I have been able to record shorter extended speed clips that did work. So, the size of this clip might have had something to do with it. BTW, this has nothing to do with the slow motion problem. When I questioned NewTek a while back, they did say that slow motion and reverse motion was going to be possible. Hopefully, they will include it when 4.0 gets finished. Fred
#98836From: Michael MiloffJan 14, 1995 2:36 AM
Possibly your drive problems stemming from having 2 different size drives i.e. 9 gig and a 2 gig (is that your config?). Since these would run at different speed (at least they are probably rated differently) I could see that as being a source of potential conflict since one drive would have to catch up to the other after some effects instead of synching together for smooth A/B. Just taking a shot. RUSS
#98857From: Fred BerneyJan 14, 1995 8:25 AM
""Possibly your drive problems stemming from having 2 different size drives i.e. 9 gig and a 2 gig (is that your config?)."" This is NewTek's recommendation, at least according to the dealer. From everything that I've been reading in the doc you need three drives. Two for video/audio and one for just audio. Size doesn't matter. Anyway, I have put my video clips on the same drive. IOW I'm not putting some on one drive and some on the other. Actually, I tried everything. Putting clips on drive A. Then recording new clips on drive B. Then recording clips on both drive A and drive B. No difference. That's why I don't think the problem is in the drives. I'm really leaning to believing it is in the card. That's the other reason I want to know the date of everybody else's software. If we all have the same date then it must be the card, unless I have a bad software disk. Anything is possible. However, at $10,000 I don't think I should have to come up with the solution. Fred
#98835From: Michael MiloffJan 14, 1995 2:31 AM
Re: Slo-Mo etc. There are no controls for it in the latest software release (3.9) so it probably won't show up till after initial production models are shipped. Cound on "NewTek Time". RUSS SPENCER / MM