CompuServe Thread

#Bump edge question

18 messages in this thread
#147238From: Glenn J MelenhorstJan 17, 1995 12:25 AM
Hi again fellow "sit-in-the-dark-and-make-nice-pictures" dudes. Does anyone know what the technical term is for rendering an object with it's EDGES disturbed by the bumpmap? I have a model making friend who always gives me grief about bump-mapped surfaces that have utterly smooth contours! Don't you just hate those traditionalists! Building things by hand.. BAH! (g). And …. er …. Is it possible/hard etc to write an IPAS that would do this or would that be something which would have to be implimented in the code of the 3DS.exe? Thanks in advance… Glenn Zephyr.
#147320From: Yost GroupJan 17, 1995 10:39 AM
It's called displacement mapping, and you can get exactly the same effect with displacement modeling, using Displace.pxp. – G
#147325From: John EllisJan 17, 1995 10:41 AM
Hi Glenn, Curiously enough, at least with Digital Arts we called it a "displacement map", which (get this) "perturbed the surface normals". As your aware the Yost has Displace and it seems that it would not be that difficult to reproduce with the same code. It would act like an AXP based on the contrast of the map, but the developer would need some kind of "materials" interface so that you could assign the material and give it "surface normal peturbation" values. Try saying that real fast 3 times. <g> John
#147336From: WillJan 17, 1995 11:07 AM
>>technical term is for rendering an object with it's EDGES disturbed by the bumpmap<< displacement mapping. There is also something called hypertextures that I believe adjusts the geometry also but I don't know much about these. >>And …. er …. Is it possible/hard etc to write an IPAS that would do this or would that be something which would have to be implimented in the code of the 3DS.exe<< Hmmm, I don't know what info is available to an IPAS but it might be possible. Very impracticle though, it would be much more efficient built into the renderer. I don't know if any PC programs have displacement mapping. To do it, it actually modifies your geometry and will make it really complex by having it model all the bumps of the map. When I had the opportunity to work on Alias I was told about this kind of mapping, but the person showing me about it said that it takes a lot longer to do then simple bump mapping; and this is on a silicon graphics machine! It would be nice too have this but as far as I know it is too much for a PC. Maybe some IPAS writer is working on this, I would hate to see how complex objects got though. Maybe if it only modified the edges and where objects intersect you could get the effect and save alot of geometry. I dabble in 3D crap and have an idea how to produce displacement mapping without modifying geometry but it's all theoretical. Hopefully Yost Group will find a way to implement this, I think they easily could. ———–Will
#147371From: Jan 17, 1995 2:18 PM
Glenn: >> Does anyone know what the technical term is for rendering an object with >> it's EDGES disturbed by the bumpmap? I think it's technically called "rendering an object with it's EDGES disturbed by the bumpmap". <bg> Seriously, I'd just use DISPLACE to quickly bump out the object, right to and including the edges. Greg Pyros
#147393From: Glenn J MelenhorstJan 17, 1995 5:09 PM
Thanks Greg (and all others who responded!), I am aware of the very powerful dispalce.ipas by Gary's buddies and it's a powerful app. but I was wondering if it was possible to affect only the edge at render time without jacking up the complexity of the mesh (the same way a bump map does). BTW Greg.. Long time no type! How's things? Busy? Glenn Zephyr.
#147411From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Jan 17, 1995 6:40 PM
Hi Glenn, << but I was wondering if it was possible to affect only the edge at render time without jacking up the complexity of the mesh >> a silhouette data structure of faces on this edge as seen by the camera..wish.. got it. wish I had it. jonas[adesk]
#147501From: Glenn J MelenhorstJan 18, 1995 12:25 AM
>>a silhouette data structure of faces on this edge as seen >>by the camera..wish.. Jonas you really know how to distill a concept! What a wordsmith! <G> Glenn Zephyr.
#147415From: Jan 17, 1995 7:16 PM
Glenn: >> BTW Greg.. Long time no type! How's things? Busy? Yes, very. Unfortunately, my wife's father died right after the New Year, and we traveled back for the funeral in Pennsylvania. But we are back into it now, working on a TV show, a CD-ROM game, two architectural animations, an accident reconstruction, and the graphics which will be displayed on TVs and computer monitors during a feature film. Whew, I'm getting tired just looking at our production schedule for the next few months! How's things down under? Greg Pyros
#147502From: Glenn J MelenhorstJan 18, 1995 12:25 AM
<<my wife's father died right after the New Year Sorry to hear. That's always tough stuff to get through. <<How's things down under? Well… Holly wood it 'aint. It's not hard to be a big fish in such a small pool!(G) As we have our summer break and Christmas simultaneously, everyone's just getting back into things so I'm quoting but not really hard at anything in particular. Your schedule sounds like big fun! Glenn Zephyr.
#147631From: Jan 18, 1995 3:25 PM
Glenn: >> Your schedule sounds like big fun! You are invited to come on over whenever you want to play! Greg Pyros
#147543From: Accu-WeatherJan 18, 1995 8:02 AM
>> affect only the edge << Take your map and black out all but 4 vertical, evenly spaced sections. Cylindrically map w/ Displace. >> without jacking up the complexity of the mesh << Yea well… better than nothing.<g>
#147634From: Glenn J MelenhorstJan 18, 1995 3:27 PM
Interesting tip Wade… I'll have a play with that! Glenn Zephyr.
#147414From: John EllisJan 17, 1995 6:55 PM
>> Seriously, I'd just use DISPLACE to quickly bump out the object… << Yeah, I agree Greg, but what do you do when you want to put a bumpy surface on a SKINNED model? <g> John
#147630From: Jan 18, 1995 3:25 PM
JE: >> Yeah, I agree Greg, but what do you do when you want to put a bumpy >> surface on a SKINNED model? Good question! Are there any other good questions out there? :^) Greg Pyros
#147669From: John EllisJan 18, 1995 6:51 PM
Good question! Are there any other good questions out there? :^) Everyboby's a comedian. <g> The answer is a Displacement Mapping AXP. 🙂 John
#148018From: Scott RobertsJan 20, 1995 9:21 AM
<<The answer is a Displacement Mapping AXP. :-)>> I'll second that wish! I can just imagine the possibilities of morphing between 2 Displacement Maps.
#148071From: John StetzerJan 20, 1995 11:59 AM
>>morphing between 2 Displacement Maps Or using a flic as a source, or doing it as Lightwave does, by moving a picture across. Either would make me happy. John Stetzer JWS