CompuServe Thread

#A1200 Preannoucment

90 messages in this thread
#74999From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiOct 28, 1992 12:22 PM
Well, the NDA on the A1200 is officially lifted. Here's Commodore's official pre-annoucement, which was posted to Usenet and BIX: – – – – – – – – – – TITLE: Amiga 1200 The following is a position statement from Commodore Business Machines, Inc. (USA) regarding the A1200. Following on the heels of the launch and shipment of the A4000 in September (the first Amiga system to feature the AGA Chip set), Commodore is announcing the second AGA-based machine, which is designated the A1200. This machine has already been announced in several European countries and will be officially announced in the U.S. at Comdex, November 16 in Las Vegas. It is currently expected to be available in the United States before Christmas, 1992. The A1200 is not a replacement for either the A600 or A2000, both of which are expected to continue in the product line in the U.S. The A1200 is an addition to the product line and is positioned as a machine that will be competitive with the 386SX/DX or MAC Classic series machines in the home/ education market and as a machine for presentation and training delivery, or for kiosk systems. Key features include: * AGA Chip set (with AmigaDOS Release 3), supporting the same resolution and color modes as the A4000 (including typical VGA-type displays as well as the NTSC display modes) * use of an industry standard IDE drive making hard drives relatively inexpensive and available * PCMCIA slot (same as the A600). The slot can be utilized by a number of peripherals which are already available, or soon to become available. These include 1,2, and 4 megabyte memory cards, SCSI adapters and FAX/Modems. Commodore believes that the A1200 will continue to make the Amiga series of machines competitive in today's changing environment. It represents a major step forward for Commodore in the entry to midrange segment of the computing industry. We must also point out that Commodore is committed to a full product line of AGA-based products. <continued>
#75172From: Leslie T. BartiromoOct 29, 1992 7:46 PM
From your description the A1200 sounds a lot like the A600. How much memory does it come with? Are there any slots aside from the PCMCIA? How much "chip" RAM does it have? Detached keyboard? Keypad?
#75177From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiOct 29, 1992 9:04 PM
Leslie, It comes with 2MB of Chip RAM. You can add up to 8MB of Fast RAM. It has the AGA chip set, an internal expansion slot for adding SCSI, accelerators, etc, and a numeric keypad. The case looks like a slightly smaller A500 with A600 styling. …Denny
#75304From: Leslie T. BartiromoOct 30, 1992 7:22 PM
Did I understand you to say there is only ONE internal slot and forgive me if you mentioned this in your initial post, which 680×0 processor does it use? Is there a video slot somewhere on it? Thanks.
#75284From: Steve AhlstromOct 30, 1992 2:08 PM
Leslie, In addition to what Denny said about the 1200, it looks like a slightly larger A600 — it has a numeric keypad that is lacking on the A600. It also has a "trap door" on the bottom for a peripheral — such as an accelerator card, DSP, various other possibilities. The A1200 uses the 68EC020, meaning that it only has a 24 bit address buss, so the max addressable ram space is just like the 68000 — 16M total, of which 6M is reserved for device addressing. US configuration of the machine is 2M chip ram and an internal 40M HD for a suggested retail of $999. -sja
#75302From: Steve TarneyOct 30, 1992 7:08 PM
Hi, I'm interesed in the new 1200 and you seem to have some good info. Do you know if the 1200 will be available with a larger HD than a 40M…? Keep this great info coming………Thanks, Steve T.
#75305From: Peter M. D'AngeloOct 30, 1992 7:36 PM
There is a text file here in the Amiga Users library which gives a full description of the Amiga 1200. Peter6 Live from New York on Autopilot
#75330From: Steve TarneyOct 30, 1992 9:15 PM
I have that file and read it again, but I still don't see anything about what Hard Drive will be avialable! Thanks, Steve T.
#75374From: Peter M. D'AngeloOct 31, 1992 10:37 AM
Steve, Hard drive options are the same as for the 600, 20MB IDE U.K., 40MB IDE USA. SCSI card is forth coming. Peter6 Live from New York on Autopilot
#75386From: Steve AhlstromOct 31, 1992 11:54 AM
Steve, I've about exhausted my info on the A1200. The US configuration of the machine will come with a 40M 2.5 inch internal IDE hard drive (that's the info I have — of course, until the A1200 hits the dealer's shelves I'm sure the base configuration could change). I know little to nothing about IDE drives and/or the new variety of 2.5 drives. IF there are 2.5 drives with more capacity than 40M I see no reason why the stock drive cannot be replaced. The A1200 has a "trap door" in the bottom for expansion. My understanding of this (could be wrong) is that it is a 1 device only expansion, similar to (in functionality, not in compatibility) the expansion slot in the A1000 or A500. You could use that slot for a SCSI host adapter (assuming someone will market such a card for that slot). -sja
#75427From: Steve TarneyOct 31, 1992 7:15 PM
Steve, Thanks for the reply and info. I will keep watching messages for further info and again Thanks……… Steve T.
#75444From: Betty Clay/SYSOPOct 31, 1992 10:35 PM
I know that 2.5 IDE drives exist in 40, 60, 80, and 120M sizes, because all of those sizes are available on the Toshiba notebook computers. —Betty
#75348From: David KieltykaOct 30, 1992 10:55 PM
Steve, Does the US version of the A1200 contain an HD floppy? If so, that seals it for me…I'll get a 1200 and PARNET it to my 3000. If not, I'll probably get one anyway. 😉 -Dave (via AutoPilot)
#75387From: Steve AhlstromOct 31, 1992 11:54 AM
David, The press release for the A1200 states specifically that the internal floppy is 880k. I suppose that could change by the time the machine is available in North America but I wouldn't count on it. -sja
#75425From: David KieltykaOct 31, 1992 6:38 PM
Steve, That's too bad…I don't think C= should be releasing any new machines with 880k floppy drives. With all the advances the A1200 will offer over existing machines in its price range, this seems nearly as misguided as putting an IDE drive in the A4000. Still, I'll get an A1200 anyway…and probably an HD floppy drive as well. Maybe I can make a deal with my dealer. 8^) -Dave (via AutoPilot)
#75365From: Leslie T. BartiromoOct 31, 1992 8:36 AM
Thanks for the additional info, Steve. (Denny, if you are reading this, AutoPilot uploaded my second message to you before I read Steve's message.) Personally, I think the A1200 is more like what the A600 should have been. One more quick question, is the only difference between the 68EC020 and the 68020 the inability to handle 32 bit address lines? Can you use a math co-processor with the 68EC020?
#75368From: Steve AhlstromOct 31, 1992 10:02 AM
Leslie, No, you can't use a math co-processor or MMU with the EC020.
#75375From: Peter M. D'AngeloOct 31, 1992 10:37 AM
Leslie, Coprocessor YES. 68EC020 means no MMU. It has a 24 bit address. Peter6 Live from New York on Autopilot
#75187From: Brian CowanOct 29, 1992 9:52 PM
If it's FAX/Modem capable, is it safe to believe that it's PCMIA 2? // Brian — Cruising on AutoPilot….. \X/
#75208From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiOct 29, 1992 11:32 PM
Yep, PCMCIA level 2.
#75301From: Steve SetzerOct 30, 1992 6:50 PM
Denny, Is the PCMCIA standard across platforms? What I mean is will a 2 meg PCMCIA card for a PC laptop work with the 600/1200? …Steve On AutoPilot! (at last)
#75310From: Michael GerardOct 30, 1992 7:58 PM
Steve… that hadn't even occured to me. GOOD QUESTION! (you get a gold star in my book) I'm really interested in the answer… and if it is YES, does that imply anything about PCMCIA modem cards? SCSI cards?, etc…
#75342From: Christopher TolmieOct 30, 1992 10:28 PM
Michael, I thought PCMCIA was a set standard, but I've been wrong in the past. 🙂 Chris
#75385From: Steve AhlstromOct 31, 1992 11:54 AM
I don't know the answer either (PCMCIA being standardized across platforms). However, do be aware than PCMCIA ram cards are only 16 bit and slow. Unless access speed is not a concern to you might want to consider using that port for something other than ram. -sja
#75449From: Don Curtis/SYSOPOct 31, 1992 11:48 PM
Michael, Also…realize, that I do not believe you can attach more than one "thing" to a PCMCIA card slot…they don't daisy chain to the best of my knowledge. So you gets your choice of one thing…and that's it. Don
#75476From: Steve SetzerNov 1, 1992 7:35 AM
Don, Could someone come out with a `PCMCIA slot multiplier' ? Similiar to what they use to use for the C64? Would that be feasable? It looks like this PCMCIA could be a suprisingly useful port. …Steve On AutoPilot! (at last)
#75519From: Ronald B. RomineNov 1, 1992 4:46 PM
From what I've read, the PCMCIA standard allows for hot insertion, You can plug and unplug the cards while the power is still on. The A600/1200 will configure the RAM card as memory if plugged in at powerup. If plugged in after powerup, it is configured as a RAM-disk. If the RAM-diks, are battery-backed(?), that can act is removable media. Imagion having a collection of 4-meg RAM-disks. The PCMCIA can also be booted from, allowing a RAM-bootdisk. I'm guessing… that a "addmem" could be written so RAM cards could be configured as memory after powerup. Ron. – ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasles aren't sucked into jet engines.)
#75530From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 1, 1992 6:19 PM
Ron, But the question is…if you've got a PCMCIA Scsi host adapter, how does one use the port for anything else…such as adding memory or a RAM disk? Don
#75581From: Ronald B. RomineNov 1, 1992 11:06 PM
I don't know. There is only one PCMCIA slot, and I don't know if the PCMCIA standard allows for passthru or multiple slot extension (from one slot). The A1200 does have an expanded belly slot, that allows for expanders, accellerators, and SCSI controllers. (In believe it is a 150 pins slot.) Breakouts are built into the case to allow cables & connectors from the belly slot. Ron. – ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasles aren't sucked into jet engines.)
#75632From: Greg GivlerNov 2, 1992 10:53 AM
That is correct. Greg Greg Givler – CBMSER Sysop Commodore Product Assurance
#75829From: Brian CowanNov 3, 1992 7:59 PM
Well, I _think_ some memory cards will eventually come out with battery backup. They had them out before in Japan, Inc. when the standard size for said cards was about 64K…. // Brian — Cruising on AutoPilot….. \X/
#75529From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 1, 1992 6:18 PM
Steve, No idea…I'm not at all familiar with what the PCMCIA spec says. Don
#75605From: Mike SchillerNov 2, 1992 3:07 AM
Steve: I was under the impression that there already was a PCMCIA 'multiplier' available. I don't remember where I saw this, but it could have been in one of the small ads in the back of some of the PC magazines. // -Mike Schiller \X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
#75481From: Michael GerardNov 1, 1992 8:20 AM
Don- could be… but I've also heard rumor of a scsi PCMCIA interface, and, by definition, wouldn't that suggest multiple devices?
#75531From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 1, 1992 6:21 PM
Michael, No…by implication…that would mean the port is now dedicated to the host adapter…and nothing else. That's my understanding…as usual, I could be wrong….I'm barely familiar with what is going on in the PCMCIA world. I do know there are other add-ons (for other machines…but presume they'd work on an Amiga) such as modems also. Don
#75567From: Black Belt SystemsNov 1, 1992 9:28 PM
Now, that's not fair. :^) It's not so much that you usually can be wrong… you're rarely wrong, it's just that when you are, you REALLY are. :^) –Ben …via AutoPilot
#75631From: Greg GivlerNov 2, 1992 10:53 AM
The problem with modem cards and SCSI cards is that you have to have a device driver so that the system knows to talk to card.resource rather than scsi.device, or serial.device. We have tested an Intel 2400 baud modem card and works just fine. Greg Greg Givler – CBMSER Sysop Commodore Product Assurance
#75642From: Michael GerardNov 2, 1992 12:28 PM
Greg… That's nice to hear. And since you "tested an Intel 2400 baud modem card", that means that you have a device driver. 🙂 Can you get permission to upload here to Library 5?
#75646From: Black Belt SystemsNov 2, 1992 12:57 PM
oooo, you're quick on the uptake. :^) Good job… heh heh heh. –Ben …via AutoPilot
#75917From: Greg GivlerNov 4, 1992 10:19 AM
Uh… The software was very primitive, and I don't think that it had a driver by itself. I think it was part of the telecom software that we used. So I would say at this time that I could not, but I will ask. Greg Greg Givler – CBMSER Sysop Commodore Product Assurance
#75830From: Brian CowanNov 3, 1992 7:59 PM
How about being nice and testing Xircom's (I think Xircom is coming out with it….) PCMCIA ethernet adapter. A _fast_ network interface would be a nice thing to have, and may help sell the machine in some markets….. // Brian — Cruising on AutoPilot….. \X/
#75920From: Greg GivlerNov 4, 1992 10:20 AM
If you want to buy it and send it to me I will be glad to test it. 🙂 I really don't know what plans are for testing ethernet cards also I think that would mean a re-write of the device driver, or a new device driver that knows about the credit card stuff. I just wish I could put my MasterCard in the A600 and get money out 🙂 Greg Greg Givler – CBMSER Sysop Commodore Product Assurance
#75940From: Betty Clay/SYSOPNov 4, 1992 12:33 PM
Gee, Greg – I cannot think of a better sales gimmmick! The 600 would outsell the 64 by a factor of hundreds. Sure you can't build that in? —Betty
#75998From: Brian CowanNov 4, 1992 7:54 PM
Well, I don't think they're released, for one thing….. I just think that it would be nice to have an ethernet so that one 3000/4000 can act as a "file server" for a network of A600's and A1200's in, say, a _classroom_ environment…. Parnet/Sernet, in this situation, is worse than useless…. // Brian — Cruising on AutoPilot….. \X/
#75639From: Forrest McKinneyNov 2, 1992 12:10 PM
I know that the PCMIA (PCCard) is a standard media like floppies, one from a PC will work in the Amiga ect… I have not tried this but this is what CBM TS has stated as for reading the files of of them I do not see anything in Cross Dos that says it supports that. As for SCSI cards and modems ect… I would think they would be the same and just require software, but that is speculation and we will know in time… Forrest
#75674From: Michael GerardNov 2, 1992 7:21 PM
see msg 75633
#75338From: Mark D. ManesOct 30, 1992 10:02 PM
Yes, WE have taken PC laptop PCMCIA cards and used them as expansion RAM on an Amiga 600HD. Works fine. -mark=
#75400From: Andy FinkelOct 31, 1992 2:24 PM
PCMCIA is a standard; ram cards, at least, can be moved freely. Naturally, the filesystem you format the ram card with makes a difference, ie PCs use a MSDOS filesystem, while Amigas tend to use an AmigaDOS filesystem. Nothing stops something like CrossDOS from being taught how to talk to the ramcards, though, which would let you use MSDOS filesystem formatted cards on the Amiga. There was a certain amount of confusion about attribute memory of the PCMCIA cards in the early days of the format; that's the only thing that might cause you problems. The A600/A1200 works with the correct ones, and with most of the incorrect ones 🙂 andy
#75404From: Black Belt SystemsOct 31, 1992 2:58 PM
Andy, Does the implementation of PCMCIA on the 600/1200 support the execute-in-place software standard, or did you leave too long ago to be sure? I realize that (now) all the s/w is non-Amiga, but I'd be interested to know… –Ben …via AutoPilot
#75634From: Greg GivlerNov 2, 1992 10:54 AM
Yes we do support XIP. I think we support just about every major feature of the spec. It has been a while since I read the spec, so I don't know if we work with everything, but then the spec is pretty open ended. Greg Greg Givler – CBMSER Sysop Commodore Product Assurance
#75645From: Black Belt SystemsNov 2, 1992 12:57 PM
Very, very good – thanks for replying here! Be nice to drop in cards with games on 'em… that leaves most of the ram in the machine already for data and manipulation, a very powerful thing indeed for a 1 or 2 meg machine. :^)) –Ben …via AutoPilot
#75774From: Jonathan BlackwellNov 3, 1992 11:56 AM
A 14.4 fax/data modem for PCMCIA was just announced. I saw it in one of the PC forums. Will these products work in the A1200 ????? -Jonathan
#75919From: Greg GivlerNov 4, 1992 10:20 AM
The problem is that you need a device driver that will talk to card.resource and carddisk.device. I don't know if one exists yet, but I will check and see what I can find out. Greg Greg Givler – CBMSER Sysop Commodore Product Assurance
#75989From: Brian CowanNov 4, 1992 7:00 PM
It BETTER! // Brian — Cruising on AutoPilot….. \X/
#75717From: Andy FinkelNov 3, 1992 12:02 AM
The A600/1200 supports an XIP method. Since the processor is different from that of the PCs, its not compatible with the Intel XIP cards, naturally. The 600/1200 also supports a romtag feature, which was more useful to me than the XIP, since I was adding, rather than taking over. (I was doing some consulting for C= on machines with PCMCIA and ended up doing a fair amount with it) andy
#75812From: Ron LegroNov 3, 1992 6:17 PM
What would happen if you run one a Bridgeboard or a software-based MS-DOS emulator (such as PC-Task) on an A600/1200 and plug in a XIP card set up for MS-DOS?
#75938From: Andy FinkelNov 4, 1992 12:24 PM
Interesting question. Probably nothing, without some additional work on the part of the emulator author, since it would have to be taught about the additional hardware. andy
#75822From: Black Belt SystemsNov 3, 1992 7:38 PM
Thanks for the info. I'm aware of the object code issue. :^) But it's nice to know that we can RUN in these cards – it easy to go half way and not allow that. –Ben …via AutoPilot
#75474From: Steve SetzerNov 1, 1992 6:49 AM
Andy, Thanx for the prompt reply, but boy am I more confused now than before! Format Ram?! I was not aware that ram needed to be formated, is that the same manner of formating as in disk drives? Would this have to be done each time the machine is powered up or just an initialzation on the 1st use? Or would you need some type of driver? Hmmm this is good news that the PCMCIA does work across platforms, it might make some of the peripherals more accesable and cheaper to boot! If you could eleborate some more (for us laymen) I sure would appreciate it! …Steve On AutoPilot! (at last)
#75478From: Kelly JordanNov 1, 1992 7:39 AM
Steve, I think those PCMCIA ram cards act like ram disks, not program ram. If so, they shouldn't loose their memory contents when powered down. Could be totally wrong, though! 73, Kelly
#75635From: Greg GivlerNov 2, 1992 10:54 AM
The can be set to either System RAM or programmed as a RAM DISK, if you install to CC0: you can then boot off of the disk, so you effectively have a RAD: disk that is removable, and can sit in your drawer, until the battery runs out. Greg Greg Givler – CBMSER Sysop Commodore Product Assurance
#75839From: Kelly JordanNov 3, 1992 9:04 PM
Neat! Will be looking very seriously at getting an A1200 in the new year to run AVT_Master (and free up my A2.5K). 73, Kelly
#75520From: Ronald B. RomineNov 1, 1992 4:46 PM
The PCMCIA cards can be formated as "disks". Like a RAM-disk or RAD. When used in this way, the RAM cards act as removable "disks", you could format a 4-meg RAMcard to act as a 4-meg removable disk. You do not need to power-down to remove PCMCIA cards, they are designed to allow "hot" insertion. The drivers/handlers needed to for the PCMCIA are in the KS-2.05 ROMs. They can be formated using Amiga disk formatss, or "IBM" disk formats. (For use with CrossDOS.) The PCMCIA can also be used as "memory space." The card is regular memory, configured as 16-bit FAST memory. However, I believe the card must be inserted before power-up to be recognised as FAST memory. Once configured as memory, it can't be removed without causing a reset, after all there could be programs *running* in that memory area. They can also be booted from. You can format a PCMCIA, as a boot-disk. Ron. – ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasles aren't sucked into jet engines.)
#75714From: Andy FinkelNov 2, 1992 11:54 PM
When a PCMCIA card is used as a ram disk, it needs to be formatted first. When its used as ram, it does not. (but must be marked as ram, so the system automatically adds it to the free ram list) This just has to be done once. (Unless you change your mind, and want to switch a ram disk card to a ram card, or your battery dies and the card 'forgets'.) The driver for talking to ram cards is included. For other cards (serial, network, etc) an additional driver would be required. andy
#75633From: Greg GivlerNov 2, 1992 10:53 AM
CrossDOS does not have to be taught. When you place a disk formatted PCMCIA card in the card slot, the system recognizes this a CC0:. You then use CC0: as a disk or tell CrossDOS to read CC0: There are no problems with that. Greg Greg Givler – CBMSER Sysop Commodore Product Assurance
#75713From: Andy FinkelNov 2, 1992 11:51 PM
So the CrossDOS commodity already checks the card.resource and CrossDOS mfm.device knows about the carddisk.device ? Good, then the work was already done. That's what's necessary to get from CC0: (which is the AmigaDOS name for an AmigaDOS formatted card) to a MSDOS formatted card. andy
#75918From: Greg GivlerNov 4, 1992 10:20 AM
That was my understanding. I did not do the testing of CrossDOS myself, I forget who did that, but I am pretty sure that it was checked and working. I will double check that and let everyone know. Greg Greg Givler – CBMSER Sysop Commodore Product Assurance
#75937From: Andy FinkelNov 4, 1992 12:23 PM
I'm sure you are right; I know Martin rewrote the commodity another couple of times since the last time I used it 🙂 andy
#75630From: Greg GivlerNov 2, 1992 10:53 AM
A 2MB PCMCIA SRAM card could be configured as System RAM or as a DISK. The program PrepCard shipped with 2.05, 2.1 and 3.0 will do that. You can also use CrossDOS to read PCMCIA cards that are formatted on PC's so you can get data to and from your PalmTOP. Greg Greg Givler – CBMSER Sysop Commodore Product Assurance
#75852From: John GagerNov 3, 1992 10:50 PM
Just wanted to drop you a note Greg and let you know how much I appreciate someone from CBM participating in the Amiga forum's. With the new models recently announced you help by keeping the untrue rumors under control 8^) I don't want to put you on the spot, but do you think CBM will have a power up program for us 3000 owners? I've been trying to sell my 3000 so I can purchase a 4000 but I'm not having much luck. With the major price reduction for the 3000 now, I'm having a hard time selling it for a decent price. I think it would be the right thing to do considering the 3000 was suppose to be the base computer for the new Amiga technology. John – K7KB (Flying via AutoPilot)
#75921From: Greg GivlerNov 4, 1992 10:20 AM
The Sales companies handle those kind of things and I don't work for the Sales company anymore. So I don't know if anything is planned. I would think that it may happen in some countries, but that depends on lots of things, like how many A3000s they have in the warehouse, and so forth. I would not hold my breath, but I wouldn't loose hope. I think it all depends on how well the A4000 sells. Greg Greg Givler – CBMSER Sysop Commodore Product Assurance
#75999From: Brian CowanNov 4, 1992 7:54 PM
Not to mention how many _3000's_ are in there, no? I myself would "settle" for a motherboard replacement. Assuming that I could get a decent SCSI controller for it at a decent price. My tape drive and Syquest would become useless otherwise….. // Brian — Cruising on AutoPilot….. \X/
#76101From: John GagerNov 5, 1992 2:15 AM
Well I would go for the motherboard replacement also Brian. I'm just not going to purchase the 4000 unless I can sell my 3000, or they offer a motherboard/"Power Up" deal. John – K7KB (Flying via AutoPilot)
#76056From: John GagerNov 4, 1992 10:57 PM
Well Greg, if CBM doesn't offer a power up program for us 3000 owners, and if I can't sell my current 3000, then the next computer I buy will NOT be an Amiga. As much as I would like to buy a 4000 I will not be duped into buying another computer that will be obsolete next year. At least with a clone upgrading to a better/faster processor is usually a cheap and easy process. John – K7KB (Flying via AutoPilot)
#76093From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 5, 1992 1:17 AM
John, That's a strange attitude. Did you ever read anywhere that the 3000 would be the top of the Amiga line for X number of years? Or that the chipset would never change, or anything else that lead you to believe that your purchase of a 3000 would keep you at the tech peak for several years yet? Did you get a promise from someone that if the above turned out not to be true…that Commodore would offer you a trade-up option? And finally…is your 3000 now obsolete? Don
#76222From: John GagerNov 6, 1992 1:58 AM
No Don, I never said that I believed that the 3000 would be the top of the Amiga line for X number of years. What I did say is that the 3000 was suppose to be the Amiga on which future technology was to be based. And I thought that CBM would follow through with expansion cards or other enhancements so it would remain so. Actually CBM has released almost NOTHING for the 3000 since it was introduced, so now I know how the 1000 owners feel about being abandoned by CBM. I know that technology moves on and the release of a newer chipset was going to happen sooner or later, but I was under the impression that us 3000 owners would be able to enjoy the newer technology as well as the 1200 and 4000 owners. If not, then a motherboard swap or "Power-Up" deal would keep me happy. And yes, I do think the 3000 is now obsolete. Considering what we have now with the AGA chipset, and what we are likely to see in the near future, and the fact that the 3000 can't easily be upgraded to that technology, it is obsolete. But getting back to the serious stuff, maybe it might be best to drop this subject and let things cool off for awhile. Considering what Paul Toal said, I might be getting on some people's nerves <g>. Somehow I manage to do that with some people. John – K7KB (Flying via AutoPilot)
#76259From: Michael GerardNov 6, 1992 9:39 AM
John: I have an A3000… and I think that I am a lot happier than you. I'll be disappointed if I can't power-up or upgrade… but I'll live. I mean, if that's the biggest problem I'll have to face in the next year, then I'm living right! Anyway, "I used to be an A1000 owner, and, sir, YOU are no A1000 owner". 🙂 Being 'stuck' with a 68030/25MHz expandable system is _nothing_ at all like being 'stuck' with a 1/2 meg chip memory machine with no internal slots, no accelerator, no easy HD controller etc. You haven't a clue! No need to drop the thread… I like to hear where everyone is coming from. You know, variety is the spice of life & all….
#76262From: Betty Clay/SYSOPNov 6, 1992 9:53 AM
John, I've been with Amiga since the day they were first released in Dallas. I still have an A1000, and it still runs almost everything written for the Amiga. It lacks some of the nice features of the newer machines, but it is still compatible with most of the Amiga software that I have. I never expected the company to continue making the 1000 forever. Had that been the case, I would still be using my original Commodore PET. There have to be new machines in order to achieve progress and greater computing power. I also have a 2000. It can have the 2.04 ROM chip in it – in fact, I have the chip and simply have not installed it because I'm not using that machine (which was my husband's computer.) With the new 2.1 software, it can be quite up-to-date, and can run anything currently available for the Amiga. My own computer is a 2500. It has 2.04, can run 2.1 or 3.0 software (though it does not have the AGA chips and cannot have them), but I can do with it almost anything that can be done with newer machines. I think Commodore has done quite well for me. In almost all cases, other than software written for 2.0 and above only, whatever I run on my 2500 can also run on the old 1000. That is pretty good compatibility! I didn't buy the 3000, since I did not see a great deal of advantage for me over the 2500. I had planned to buy the 4000, but did not because it didn't have SCSI and I have quite a few SCSI devices that have to move to my next machine. I really don't feel that we can blame Commodore for making advancements in their computers. We have one group who scold them constantly for NOT making changes, and another group who complain loudly each time they DO make a change. They have no way at all to please all of us, and their only way to stay in business is to improve the product. I'm for better Amigas, even if it does mean that I have to buy another computer. From the time I began using computers about 1980, I've learned that I have <continued>
#76263From: Betty Clay/SYSOPNov 6, 1992 9:53 AM
to get a new machine every two to three years if I want to be reasonably up to date. Fortunately, the Amiga permits me to skip a machine every now and then and still use my software. I'm delighted that this is true, and applaud the progress being made. —Betty
#76292From: mark duncombeNov 6, 1992 3:22 PM
john, you could always buy an Opalvision card and wipe 4000 owners noses in it. 🙂 Mark
#76333From: Ronald B. RomineNov 6, 1992 10:07 PM
I'm just a lowly A500 user, but I wouldn't say the A3000 was obsolete. But its day are dated. The A3000 has 32-bit FAST memory, Zorro-III, the 68030/68882 CPU, the Zorro-III 32-bit AutoConfig(tm), de-lacing for its NTSC/PAL modes, a very good SCSI controller, the 200-pin CPU-Slot. There are only one feature the A4000 has over the A3000. The AGA chipset. The SCSI is gone with a IDE to hold the fort until the SCSI-II arrives. The 200-pin CPU-Slot is the same on both machines. In fact the A3040(?) CPU card used in the A4000 is the same one used in the A3000T's with the 68040 CPU. If the SCSI-II card is a Zorro-III, then it can be used in both. This for A3000 cards from CBM, what is *needed*? The A3000 already has space on the motherboard for memory expansion, a 68030 CPU, A 68882 FPU, SCSI controller. CBM is upgrading the ROMs on their Zorro-II cards to allow them to work with Autoconfig memory above the 24-bit space. CBM could develop Zorro-III graphic, memory, or other cards, but third parties have already done so. I really don't want to see CBM in a peripheral war, and kill third party support. Besides CBM's money & time is better spent on new Amigas, ROMs, and AmigaDOS. The other areas should be free for third parties. Ron. – ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasles aren't sucked into jet engines.)
#76108From: Peter M. D'AngeloNov 5, 1992 3:17 AM
John, Read the specs on the 4000. IT IS THE MOS UPGRADABLE AMIGA TO DATE!!! The processor is on the daughterboard. Rom is in a socket. All upgrades will only need a new daughterboard or motherboard. Don't know why you would ever want to leave the Wonderful World of the Amiga. Peter6 Live from New York on Autopilot
#76206From: John GagerNov 6, 1992 12:30 AM
Yes, I know the 4000 is very upgradable, but it won't do me any good if I can't sell my 3000 for a decent price. Like I said, if I have to purchase another computer from scratch it won't be an Amiga. John – K7KB (Flying via AutoPilot)
#76762From: Mike GingerichNov 9, 1992 4:13 PM
Who said upgrading a clone to a faster processor was cheap or easy? And have you used Windows?
#76223From: John GagerNov 6, 1992 1:58 AM
Yes, and if by some chance I can sell my 3000 or get a "Power Up" deal from CBM, then I might be able to enjoy the expandability of the 4000, and the AGA chipset, etc. John – K7KB (Flying via AutoPilot)
#76145From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiNov 5, 1992 12:11 PM
John, Commodore said at WOCA/Pasadena that Power Ups have always been very successful and that it would be a "logical" thing to do one again. I'd guess in the Spring, when A4000 supplies are built up and the Xmas demand is over.
#76019From: Sean LallyNov 4, 1992 8:17 PM
Hey John, I'd love to buy your A3000, if only I could sell my A2000<g>… -Sean
#76102From: John GagerNov 5, 1992 2:15 AM
Well if you get your 2000 sold Sean, give me a call. Maybe we can work out some kind of deal <g>. John – K7KB (Flying via AutoPilot)
#75894From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiNov 4, 1992 6:50 AM
Steve, Yep, PC PCMCIA cards will work on the A600/1200.
#75828From: Brian CowanNov 3, 1992 7:59 PM
OhBoyOhBoyOhBoy…. All kinds of possibilities open up here…… Modems, memory, NETWORK INTERFACES…… // Brian — Cruising on AutoPilot….. \X/