#Workbench ->>> 2.1
58 messages in this thread
Who has the scoop on Workbench 2.1? My dealer should be getting it in soon,
but I'd like to know what's new? What can I expect from this upgrade?
A. Pagan
From what I've heard, you get CrossDOS, a screen mode requester in ASL, and
the ability to have the system use different languages. I haven't heard
anything about AmigaGuide being in it. If anybody knows anything I've
forgotten, please post it.
Jim,
That's great about CrossDOS. I heard someone mention here early on that it
would have a Sound Sampler. BTW what do you mean by ASL?
A. Pagan
ASL is one of the system libraries. It has a file requester and a font
requester, and in 2.1 it's supposed to have a screenmode requester too.
Angel,
We have not received anything from Commodore about AmigaDOS 2.1–other
than the flyer we picked up at the World of Commodore show. We have
*heard*, but yet to have seen evidence of this, that the 2.0 ROM kits for
the A500/A2000 now include Workbench 2.1.
So far I have a big nada on pricing and availability for those of us who
have 2.0 ROMS.
-mark=
Mark,
I just picked up my copy of the WB 2.1 Enhancer at my local dealer. Cost
$45, ROM not included, but you use the 2.04 ROM. He had five more copies
AND he has six (6) A3000 HD floppy drives in STOCK! Computerland of
Delaware 302-738-9656.
Chris
I got my 2.1 from my brother that went overseas, but my buddy just bought
the upgrade from our local dealer. He has had it for about a week now.
-Jonathan
Mark,
2.1 Enhancer kits are showing up at dealers all over the country. It
includes manuals, 5 disks, and sells for $49.95 — $99.95 with the 2.04
ROM.
-sja
What does 2.1 do that 2.0 doesn't?
Jim,
I don't know. I used 2.1 for a couple of weeks — several months ago, then
switched to 3.0.
Steve: Are you running the 3.0 on an A3000? Or, are you using the 4000
now? If you still have the 3000, can A3000 users upgrade from 2.04 to
3.0?
— Dave
Hmmm — I was informed just last evening by someone from CATS that I can't
say. So, let's just say that registered developers have access to beta
versions of the OS and leave it at that.
Gee, whatever happened to the "glasnost" CBM promised for future products?
g>
Well, the way I look at things is, I have NickPrefs for the WB picture,
busy pointer, and "clickless" drive, along with the sound preferences
which is available here in the Libraries. I have no real need for
CrossDos, so I think for me the best decision would be to bide my time and
stick with 2.04 for a while, to see if 2.1 is really worth the effort (I
would have to spend the $99 since I don't have the 2.04 ROMs), or perhaps
wait for CBM to release a version of 3.0 for the 3000s. THAT would be
worth the $99, I would say.
—- Help! The AutoPilot is deflating! (from AIRPLANE)
— Dave
Dave, I hope C= does release 3.0 for non-AGA Amigas. Especially since so
many developers who aren't allowed to talk about it have been running it
for months on their non-AGA machines without disaster striking. 8^) I
don't think it's a good idea for C= to be offering two versions of the OS
at once, each supposedly the "latest" for its target machine(s). (It's
true, though, that 2.1 contains a number of bug fixes and some nice
improvements.)
-Dave (via AutoPilot)
Dave,
Are you ready to purchase a 3.0 ROM? I can hear the screams
now–"Commodore screwed me… I just spend $89 to upgrade and now they
want *another* $89 to upgrade to 3.0. I think I'll just wait till 4.0".
Tell me that would not happen!
-mark=
Mark,
Of course I'm ready to buy a 3.0 ROM. So is everyone else who wants to
run the most up-to-date version of the OS. I refuse to spend even a dime
on 2.1 when I know there's a better alternative to be had if C= would only
let me have it. The cost argument is silly…no matter when you release
an upgrade someone's always gonna be ticked off because they just paid for
the previous version. Them's the breaks. The way I see it, no matter
what C= does some people are gonna complain, so C= might as well do the
right thing and release 3.0 for all Amigas. Let the complainers do their
thing…I won't be listening to 'em.
-Dave (via AutoPilot)
Dave: Yes, I'm sure 2.1 contains improvements to 2.04, but there are many
more improvements in 3.0, beyond support for the AGA chip modes, that can
benefit all Amiga users. The 'datatypes' concept (which I don't fully
understand myself) is just one example. Since I would have to buy the
whole package to upgrade (2.04 ROMS and 2.1 enhancer), I would rather wait
for CBM to get their act together and come out with a 3.0 for non-AGA
machines. If it is true that developers have been using non-AGA 3.0 in
their machines for some time, then chances are it WILL happen, the only
question is WHEN. The future of the Amiga will go forward; to leave
non-AGA machines behind simply due to the graphic mode difference would be
rather stupid, IMHO.
— Via AutoPilot
— Dave
Dave,
I agree completely with what you say. I was just pointing out that for
those who don't wish to wait for 3.0, getting 2.1 doesn't necessarily mean
throwing your money away. Personally, though, I'll wait.
-Dave (via AutoPilot)
Just got my Enhancer tonight. You get a Postscript driver, a sound editor
so you can have a sound or sampled sound besides the flashing screen.
Locale, that provides other language usage in the menus, etc. CrossDOS
comes with it too. New set of manuals, bound not 3-ring binder. That is
about all I see so far. My dealer also got in a half-dozen A3000 HD floppy
drives too.
Chris
The sound preferences editor sounds nice — there's been PD programs to do
it, but it's about time Commodore handled it. Now if they'd come up with a
background picture utility like NickPrefs, and Workbench support for the
NoClick bit in the disk driver… 🙂
By the way, how are the manuals? Are they easy to use? I'm kind of
worried about bound manuals not being easy to flip through, and falling
apart with time. Granted, the huge 2.04 3-ring manual isn't fun either,
but if they'd split it up into two or three manuals I'd much rather have
3-ring.
Jim:
WB3.0 has the ability to use an IFF picture as a background. You can have
an IFF for the Workbench, or windows, or screens (the screen behind the WB
window). It works really nice.
// -Mike Schiller
\X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
Jim,
The manuals are 6" x 8" and there are four of them. AmigaDOS (5/16"
thick), WorkBench 2.1 (1/4), ARexx, (3/8), and Amiga Hard Disk (3/32").
Yes, they're easy to use, no you can't lay them open flat on a desk, but
they're like a desk reference set in a stiff cardboard sleeve.
I did find a few things that referred to WB 3.0 and not 2.1. Like
Fountain has been renamed in WB3.0 to Intellifont, and it is called that
in the WB2.1 manual, although the icon's name is Fountain. If you try and
run Fountain after running Intelifont (if you have a copy of 3.0 laying
around you can try this, we did at the dealer's) a requester will pop up
telling you that Fountain is already running, so even the requester thinks
its Fountain! Also references to Multiview a WB3.0 only program is also
listed in it.
Chris
Interesting, Intellifont is Agfa CompuGraphic's name for their proprietary
family of scalable typefaces (Like Type 1 and type 3 are Adobe's names for
their PS fonts). Looks like Commodore is moving ever closer to Agfa
Compugraphic. (Smart move, IMHO.)
-Chas
Did they put AmigaGuide in 2.1, or do we have to wait for 3.0?
Jim,
AmigaGuide was not in 2.1. 🙁
chris
Chris,
Multiview is brilliant. It will do the right thing by checking the file
referenced and either display as a text file, show a pic file, including
gifs if memory serves me right, play a tune etc etc. Very useful utility.
Pete from Dorset in Englands West Country – via Whap!
It sounds like the changes were sort of minor. Having the package, do feel
it's worth the $45 to upgrade. I am considering getting it.
Richard – via Whap
No, I don't think $45 is worth it for the upgrade. It should have been
free to 2.04 registered owners. I'd prefer to have it with a newer ROM
than 2.04, I'd like a 3.0 ROM if its available for my B2000.
I guess the changes seem minor. I can't tell what internal changes have
been made. I like having the sound editor, I found a nice sampled
bell-sound (it was a mac sound) converted it, audition4 massaged it
(removed the noise from beginning/end) and it sounds real nice, not
annoying like some of my other sampled sounds like Nyuk,Nyuk, Nyuk, or
OutofYour!@?!Mind. I tried the postscript preferences printer and sent the
output to a file, and printed it using POST. It worked fine. There is a
new SetPatch that I have heard is important.
I don't know, I've been after the package for a while, and on impulse I
purchased it last night, so I'll not putz around the decision, it is a
done deal. Besides, at least I'm using the latest release for my machine.
Chris
Richard,
I do think it's worth it. The latest version of CrossDOS, if you don't
already have that… A better outline font engine. Many bug fixes. New
screen modes if you have the ECS chips. A screenmode requester in ASL that
many new programs will take advantage of… PostScript support…
None of the individual enhancements are worth $45 or so. But combined, I
definitely think they are.
Denny,
What are the new screen modes of 2.1 with the ECS chips?
Happy Thanksgiving!
Dom Fontana
<– Sent from New York via AutoPilot –>
These are the screen modes I know of. All but the A2024 can be
interlaced to double the vertical resolution:
Res/interlaced: H.sync: V.sync: Name:
1280 x 256/512 15-kHz 50-Hz PAL: SuperHiRes
640 x 256/512 " " " " PAL: HiRes
320 x 256/512 " " " " PAL: LoRes
1280 x 200/400 15-kHz 60-Hz NTSC: SuperHiRes
640 x 200/400 " " " " NTSC: HiRes
320 x 200/400 " " " " NTSC: LoRes
1024 x 1024 ??? 50-Hz A2024: PAL
1024 x 800 ??? 60-Hz A2024: NTSC
800 x 300/600 24-kHz 72-Hz Super72: HiRes
400 x 300/600 24-kHz 72-Hz Super72: LoRes
640 x 480/960 31-kHz 60-Hz VGA: HiRes (Productivity mode)
320 x 480/960 31-kHz 60-Hz VGA: LoRes
640 x 200/400 31-kHz 60-Hz Dbl_NTSC: HiRes
640 x 256/512 31-kHz 50-Hz Dbl_PAL: HiRes
The number of bitplanes (hence colors per screen) is limited under ECS.
Still 6-bitplanes for LoRes, 4-bitplanes for HiRes, and 2-Bitplanes for
Productivity (VGA), Super72, Dbl_NTSC, & Dbl_PAL.
Ron.
– ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasles aren't sucked
into jet engines.)
Ron,
Thanks for the 2.1 info.
Dom Fontana
<– Sent from New York via AutoPilot –>
Dom,
2.1 adds the 800×300 and 800×600 modes with ECS.
Happy Thanksgiving!
…Denny
Thanks, Denny.
Dom Fontana
<– Sent from New York via AutoPilot –>
Denny,
What are the new 2.1 screen modes? I do have the ECS chips, soon to
changing to the 2 meg Agnus from the 1 meg version. With AGA now out, the
days of upgrading my old 1000 to keep current I think are numbered.
Richard – via Whap on the Amiga 1000
from Minneapolis/St. Paul
Richard,
2.1 adds 800×300 and 800×600 Productivity modes with the ECS chips.
Happy Thanksgiving…Denny
I just installed 2.1, and I think it's great! Not bad for a machine the big
boys have written off. The obvious enhancements are subtle, like graphical
requesters. The Sound Sampler and CrossDos are great! The manuals in the
attractive bound set sure beats the monster tome of 2.0! Not a major
upgrade, but a step in the right direction for an already >>>AWESOME<<<
Operating System.
A. Pagan
WB 2.1 is nice but am I missing something here…where is the
narrator.device? And "SAY" is gone and the SPEAK: device…
Is 2.1 a mute upgrade?
Kevin,
Since 2.1 is an upgrade, I'd presume it's not there because the
older versions work fine.
Don
Don,
It's not there on the ROM enhancer kit versions either, where you don't
already have the 2.04 speech stuff. The 1.3 speech stuff will work under
2.1, but the 2.04 stuff is MUCH better sounding.
The speech stuff was subcontracted by Commodore, so the problem must lie
there somewhere…
Anyway, yep, you can copy over the 1.3 or 2.04 speech stuff. But if you're
buying your first Amiga and it has 2.1 or 3.0, you just won't have the
voice synthesizer. 🙁
Dear Denny,
(Subject: Amiga speech.)
Denny you say "the 2.04 stuff is MUCH better sounding." And that its not
there on the ROM enhancer kit versions either.
So as a 1.3 user..do you think I should get the 2.04 upgrade for the
improved speech, or get the 2.1 enhancer kit (with 2.04 ROM) and copy over
my 1.3 speech?
– Tom Sawyer
Tom,
I'd get the 2.1 kit, definitely, over the 2.04 kit.
If I understood the legalities of it, I'd be tempted, since the situation
is so darned absurd, to suggest you then find a friend with 2.04 and grab
the appropriate speech libraries from that. But I can't suggest that. 🙂
Anyway, if you use the voice a LOT, it might be worth seeking out the 2.04
upgrade instead. But if you just use it occasionally, the other neat stuff
in 2.1 far outweighs the improved speech in 2.04.
Denny
This missing-speech-driver business could be a problem. Some Amiga
software (e.g., Excellence, Prowrite) promote the fact that they will
vocalize text. What if you bought a 2.1 or 3.0 machine with one of these
programs and vocalization didn't work? You'd want to blame New Horizons or
MSS, rather than Commodore. C= should've come clean on this recission.
Ron,
Yeah, it's goofy. I've talked to a few dealers who've said that they'll
just copy the correct files for users who need them.
So, Denny, as I understand it if a person like yours truely has Amigados
2.05, Cross-Dos/Cross-PC from Consultron, and Nickprefs there isn't a lot
more 2.1 will give me? I heard a rumor that 2.1 will recognize both DF0:
and DF1: as 2051 highdensity drives, however, whereas the patch will only
let you use DF0: as HD. If true, 2.1 might be still worthwhile. Is there
any other important reason to get 2.1 I am unaware of? Thanks much.
Thanks Denny.
I should have thought of doing what you could not suggest myself.:)
I will go with the 2.1. and forget about the speech. From what I've heard,
the 2.0x documentation is a 1000+ page ring binder book. And that 2.1 comes
in 3 small separate books. What I was wondering is if the 3 books are an
improvement over the original docs, or a cost/information cutting measure.
BTW Denny, When will we be able to purchase that new book of yours!;)
– Tom Sawyer
Tom,
The three books in 2.1 are much easier to manage, IMHO. I kept
accidentally tearing pages out of the huge 7 pound 2.04 manual…
My book's being proofed as we speak. I'm hoping it'll be printed within
2-3 weeks, in time for last minute Xmas presents. 🙂
What's your book about Denny?
Nick
Kevin,
2.1 doesn't include the speech stuff (neither does 3.0, sigh). You can
copy the speech-related files from 2.04 over and they will work.
Why doesn't 2.1 include speech?!? I don't buy the "it's only an UPGRADE"
argument since any mention of Amiga speech has been completely expunged
from the Dos and Workbench manuals. It appears that CBM has gagged the
Amiga, and this was one of its more unique native features.
This is VERY odd. I wonder what in the heck they're doing?
Kevin –
Losing the speech isn't just "odd" – it's *stupid*. I think CBM wants to
be sure we don't develop too mauch faith in them.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
Ben (and Kevin),
Has anyone considered it may be a simple oversight?
Don
Don,
If it was an oversight, that would be even worse.
"Ooops! Left some files of the WB disk."
I'll try to remember to try to get an official comment from CBM on
this…
Um… which is that? The speech? No – it's not. It was intentional. So
sayeth CATS.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
Didn't I read somewhere that the loss of the speech stuff was the result
of licensing problems with whomever developed it, and that presumably when
the licensing problems were resolved it would be restored?
–>Steve Bennett
That's what was posted here (as a 'probable' cause).
See? I *knew* I had seen it somewhere… <grin>
(I read sooooo many industry magazines, Amiga magazines, etc. that I
sometimes go absolutely crazy trying to find a reference again… <g>)
–>Steve Bennett
I don't know, Steve – you certainly could have. If there are problems, CBM
should resolve them; the speech capability has been an integral portion of
what makes the Amiga unique, IMHO, and "going bare" this way just notches
the machine back down towards the clones and Macs. We have enough of that
kind of impetus already without adding more that is controllable.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot