#Ethernet Mac/PC/Amiga
62 messages in this thread
Does anyone have actual experience with connecting the Amiga to an Ethernet
network with Mac's and PC's? What adapters and software get the best marks for
reliability?
Jerry
Let me know if you find an answer! I've got the same task, connecting Amigas,
PCs and a Mac together. Currently we have CBM's Envoy networking software and
2095 or whatever it is CBM ethernet cards.
It looks like I'd have to use NFS/TCP/IP to get them all talking. There is an
Amiga TCP/IP that some students wrote recently. I don't know about any NFS
(network file system based on Sun's UNIX standard) software to plug into the
sockets that TCP/IP provides. Supposedly there is PC NFS and PC TCP/IP
available, and maybe the NCSA can provide TCP/IP for the Mac (not sure there).
On the more expensive but easier side, there's always Novell.
– Alex
"On the more expensive but easier side, there's always Novell."
Oh, oh – the "N" word. <G>
I'm hoping to avoid that solution.
Thanks for the input, though. Looks like there may not be too many
alternatives on this one.
Jerry
AS225 (Commodore's TCP/IP package) includes NFS client software.
Dale Larson
– An Amiga Software Engineer with less and less time on his hands.
>AS225 (Commodore's TCP/IP package) includes NFS client software.
Thanks for the reference. So, now all I have to do is to round up
pricing for PC NFS and find something for the Mac. Then get it all
working.
As much as I dislike the "N" software, it is probably the most common
personal computer network OS available.
I have AMax II+ in my A3000. AMax II+ has an Apple LocalTalk port on
it. I have been using an NEC laser printer attached to the LocalTalk
network with no problems for about a year. But that may be too many
hoops to jump through to get files from one machine to another.
Jim Philippou
AMAX IV software/hardware allows your AMAX set up to access Ethernet
networks with any SANA-II compatible controller.
I'm confused. Ethernet is ethernet. What machines happen to be connected
is irrelevant. In terms of software, your choices are limited. If you
need to connect to both Mac and PC, you can use TCP/IP on all platforms or
you can use Netware with Oxxi's Amiga netware client. Which is better
depends entirely on what you plan to do with the network and whether you
have already invested in a Netware server (expensive).
Dale Larson
– An Amiga Software Engineer with less and less time on his hands.
Thanks, Dale.
I'm more concerned with the reliability of the card or external
adapter and the client software. We have the Mac's and PC's connected
now with Apple LocalTalk which is fine for relatively small files.
But it's time to upgrade the whole system and I would love it if all
the machines could co-exist peacefully. I was trying to avoid the
expense of going Novell, but that's beginning to sound like my best
bet.
There are several Amiga ethernet products listed in the Winter 1994
edition of "AC's Guide (for the Commodore Amiga)". You might want to
look them up. As you had requested responses from those with
experience with Amiga networking I did not respond earlier (I have no
such experience).
Considering the nature of the beast, I want to be cautious in
choosing networking gear for the Amiga. Perhaps like yours, my
closets are full of stuff that didn't quite work. <G>
J.
I couldn't help myself. See how many people are responding…
Ahhh…nevermind.
Robb
I don't know if they are still available, but there was a board
called DoubleTalk which would allows Amigas to connect to Localtalk
networks.
Thanks, Jonathan!
I'll check the ads and the Amiga product directory to see if I can locate the
vendor.
Jerry
Jerry,
If you get a good up to date collection of info on networking
products, you might post an info piece. I would be interested in
what you find because I'm trying to see about networking into my
university's system. I've had little success in finding anyone who
knows much about connecting an Amiga.
I know that CBM no longer makes the 2065 ethernet card, but
someone new has an A2066 card which is supposedly the same product
only updated. Lately, I haven't seen any ads for the CBM TCP/IP
software, so I wonder if that's going to be difficult to find. Oxxi
makes a Novell compliant product.
I will, Steven.
Finding goods that stand a chance of being supported over the long-term is
one of my considerations.
I'll let you know what I learn.
Jerry
Jerry,
If you would, post the results here. I'd love to hear, as well.
Robb
PMFJI, but the Emplant and AMAXII+ Mac emulators both have AppleTalk
ports on them. Files can be transferred from the Amiga to the Mac
partitions using the emulator, and then out to the network using std
Mac File Sharing..
While not as transparent as putting the Amigas directly on a network,
you do get the added benefit of another Mac in the office.
Ethernet is still preferred, but maybe more expensive….
Just my $.02,
Erik Flom
Thanks, Erik.
I have more or less rejected the idea of planting an emulator in the Amiga
simply because the Mac's are available not more than ten feet away. <G>
Right now, though, I really want to go for the added speed of Ethernet. We
were using LocalTalk a lot this past week and it simply isn't fast enough
anymore.
Jerry
Ethernet is really the way to go.
Unfortunately, there are few real ethernet solutions for the Amiga,
and they all seem real pricey.
I've used the Novell Client Server for the Amiga, and it provides
everything you'd need, all in a plug-n-play package. Unfortunately, if
you don't have a Novell server to begin with, its a real pricey
solution.
While you could probably kludge something together, most other solutions
wouldn't give you the level of support and robustness you'd want.
Godd luck. If you find a good cheap solution, let us all know. I, for one,
would be happy to hear of it.
– sigh –
Novell.
Money. Big money.
But it may be the only way to go.
I'll post it here if I find a viable less expensive solution.
Jerry
Thanks, I'd really like to know if there's a cheap Ethernet solution for
the Amiga.
Personally, as an ex-Novell network admin, all I can say is that it's a
sweet and stable little package.
Good Luck,
Erik Flom
Oh, I'm not saying anything against Novell. It's just overkill for a small
network.
Jerry
Erik,
I disagree. I think token ring is much better than Ethernet. So I'll just
go out and buy a board for mi-Amiga…NOT. While we're at it let's go for
ATM!
Ethernet (w/Novell?) is the way to go, I guess, if you can find it, and
afford it.
'course, I don't use the Amiga at work…
Robb
Just had to say something because I'd like to hear about 'real' world
solutions as well.
The lack of Ethernet support is really surprising and disappointing.
I can understand the lack of support for Ethernet. Until recently,
there just wasn't much of a need for that kind of bandwidth.
Unfortunately, now that more and more people need the performance of
Ethernet, C= has chosen to discontinue its support for their card –
one of the few out there. (go Figger!)
At least we've got the CIS network….not quite the same, eh? :^)
Erik Flom
Uh, no, not quite the same but, at least it's here and we're here using
it.
Robb
I've never heard of a reliability problem with any Amiga ethernet card.
I've never heard of one failing at all.
What are you going to do with the Mac's and PC's over the network?
How many of each? How many Amigas? I haven't really heard anything
yet that would make me lean toward Novell, which I would avoid for
lots of reasons, only one of which is expense (basically, I consider
it awful stuff to use as a last-resort 🙂
It's a smallish network consisting of six Mac's, four PC's and the
one Amiga in two different locations within the building. Right now
the Mac's and PC's are running LocalTalk but after the last week the
need to go Ethernet has become painfully apparent. Shifting 500Meg or
so of data around on LocalTalk turned into a massive yawn.
As I become more familiar with the Amiga, Video Toaster and other
tools, I can see where having the Amiga on the network would be a
great timesaver.
Dale is definitely the one you want to talk to about this but, that
sounds like your exactly right. Ethernet. Although ArcNet might be a
less costly solution I don't think you're gonna find it for the Amiga
(Macs? I dunno don't do Macs).
Honestly, I'm not sure what you mean by LocalTalk. Is that Mac originated
(heck I should know this we have a couple thousand Macs at work)?
I agree with Dale on avoiding NetWare, if you can, but, if the Network you
have can be supported by NetWare you might be able to get an Ethernet card
for the Novell server and one that's compatable with your current network
on the Novell server and use it as a bridge to the Amiga w/Ethernet.
LocalTalk is Apple's networking schema that's been built into every
Mac since the first one in 1984. It's moderately fast, virtually
foolproof and cards are available for the PC.
Unfortunately, I haven't found a LocalTalk card for the Amiga –
which is kind of surprising considering the potential for Mac/Amiga
transfers.
I would very much like to avoid NetWare because of the expense and
needless complexity for a net as small as this.
Oh, I thought everyone at work called that 'AppleTalk' Hmmm…I guess
I will have to get one of those puppies to figure out how they fit in
to my world.
I don't think anyone's done Mac networking for the Amiga. Not too
strange considering that most major networking needs do not involve
Amigas at all. It would probably be hard to cost justify the
developement. Maybe, an Emplant might do it?
Yep, Netware is solid and will, perhaps, suit your needs but, jimminy
christmas, it is an expensive proposition for your needs (If you can
even find an Ethernet or other commonly supported board for the
Amiga).
Maybe, someone could write a combo-PARNET-Banyan Vines type program
where you could network in via serial port (well, I guess that'd be
sernet). Not probable for your situation though.
Well maybe the most cost effective answer to hard-wire the Mac and Amiga
together and just do direct transfers when needed. File transfer capability is
all I really need in regard to the Amiga.
Jerry
But, hardwiring is a pain! At least that might be a 'make work'
solution. It'd probably be easier to hard wire to a PC. I think
TwinExpress or something like that is on CI$ to serial a PC and an
Amiga together. Another reason, for me, to find out more about them
Apples…
Maybe there's a simple router box you could get to bridge an Amiga
Ethernet or whatever to your Macs. Sysco? Well, might not be too
cheap, just an idea. Since I don't have a clue about Macs I'm trying
help but…
"But, hardwiring is a pain! At least that might be a 'make work' solution.
It'd probably be easier to hard wire to a PC."
Robb:
At this point I am thinking the sneakernet might be the easiest way to go
with Syquest 44Meg and 88Meg cartridges. For larger files, I can always use a
SCSI DAT drive.
Jerry
There was once, at least, a local talk card. I saw it at an Amiexpo
several years ago.
//
-Karl \X/ Amiga and Autopilot: The *only* way to fly!
Yeah, Progressive Peripherals made the DOUBLETALK card for the A500
and A2000/3000 computers which allowed AppleTalk networking between
Amigas & MACS… but I've no idea of the status of t he product, or
the company.
Last time I called Progressive, their voice mail indicated that they
were no longer manufacturing Amiga hardware or software and that they
had nothing in stock. It didn't indicate that they had anything else
they were selling, either. How can they afford to keep their voice
mail system up if they aren't selling anything?
>>How can they afford to keep their voice mail system up if they
aren't selling anything?<<
See how cost effective voicemail is?! <g>
Progressive Peripherals? Aren't they the folks who do Baud Bandit
and a file manager for the Amiga?
Jerry
Progressive Peripherals (not to be confused with Practical
Peripherals, or OXXI) _used_ to make some pretty neat Amiga Hardware,
including accelerator boards. They had a fire in their warehouse
early this year or last year and haven't come back from that.
Ah – sounds like I may be out of luck on this one. <G>
Jerry
If you are dealing with 500megs of shared data, you are looking at
buying a fileserver of some type. If you get a Netware server, you
can get Oxxi's Netware Client, if you get a Unix server, you can get
AS225. If you had several Amigas, I'd recomend against Netware
because Oxxi's won't allow you to run any other Amiga networking
software at the same time (since they refuse to support SANA-II). It
doesn't sound like you have any need for Amiga-specific networking,
though, so it comes down to cost and usability of the servers — buy
whichever is cheaper and easier for you to support.
"If you are dealing with 500megs of shared data"
That was strictly between the Mac and PC, Dale. It convinced me that
we needed a more powerful networking solution than LocalTalk. Thought
it would be nice if I could include the Amiga as well. I think just
hardwiring the Amiga to one of the Mac's is going to be the most cost
effective solution.
You should really look into TCP/IP before you assume that Novell is
the best bet. TCP/IP is a mature protocol, and more importantly an
OPEN one, if a particular implementation of either the PC or Mac
doesn't suit your likes you can get another one. The same is even
true with the Amiga, there are currently 2 versions of TCP/IP, the
Commodore one (AS225) and one that is freeware from Sweden (I think
it's from Sweden).
Sounds good, Mike, even if it is one more protocol to learn. I
figure it's going to take a good deal of reading and exploratory work
to find what I need, but I guess that's the price of it all.
Jerry
Jerry,
There are several "free" TCP/IP implementations for the Amiga:
1) AmiTCP V2.1
– available here on CIS, I believe, and "Aminet" sites on Internet
– VERY LARGE FILE
– DOES support Ethernet cards via SANA-II driver
– also supports serial.device and SLIP connections (eg; dial-up)
– has no "native" NFS support, and no "add-on" that I have seen
– does have FTP which ALL TCP/IP implementations have, so files
COULD be "shared", by "uploading" and "downloading" via FTP
– does have an "add-on" terminal emulation program for DEC VT102
2) AmigaNOS V2.9n
– available, via Internet FTP from John Heaton who maintains the
program at 131.88.200.4 (dir.mcc.ac.uk)
– does NOT support Ethernet cards nor SANA-II drivers
– does support serial.device and SLIP connections
– also has FTP
– TELNET is "pseudo" DEC VT100
– internally multitasking
– also supports: NNTP, Mailbox, SMTP, POP2, TTYlink, Finger, Rlogin,
Hopcheck
– has no NFS capability
3) AmigaNOSGW (V.5 ?)
– available via Internet FTP from Graham Walter: ftp.demon.co.uk
– a version of an older version of AmigaNOS that is SPECIFICALLY
designed for Gopher use
– Graham also has a Gopher client
– I presume that it has all of the basic features of AmigaNOS, but
have not been able to get it to work, so can't say
– caution: I and others have had problems with the archived file;
it appears to be corrupted and I haven't heard whether it has
been replaced or not
One caveat about AmiTCP: it does not provide all of the "additional"
TCP/IP protocols (eg; applications). These, if any, are being
developed by other individuals. Some of these "add-ons" that have
shown up require part of CBM's Ethernet software (eg; libraries), are
hence, unusable as stand-alone applications (eg; SMTP).
If ALL you need is the ability to get a file from "here" to "there",
then having ANY TCP/IP implementation on your various platforms will
allow you to do this via the FTP (File Transfer Protocol) mechanism.
This is NOT, however, the same as having a remote file system
"mounted" locally
FTP is useless for real work. For transfering single files
infrequently, fine, but most people with a network share a lot more
than occational single files. If you are doing TCP/IP, you want NFS,
which means you want AS225.
Wow! Thanks, Jim!
Hi Jerry!
It's me again. I think going for UNIX as network server is always the
best solution. This machines are multi-user oriented and do you much
less harm as PCs made to a server by Novell!
I have my Amiga hooked up with ethernet to a PC. However the PC isn't
running DOS, but rather Nextstep, the NeXT GUI on top of Mach (a unix
like OS). I have Commodore's AS225, and I have the PC's whole .5 gig
drive mounted on the Amiga via NFS as well. The networking software
on the PC all comes standard with Nextstep, so nothing extra is
needed there.
NeXTStep? Gee, that might be the solution right there!
Thanks for the suggestion, Mike. I'll call them on Monday. If I
remember correctly, NeXTStep already has the hooks built-in for the
Mac.
although the C= Ethernet Card A2065 isn't vailable any more, there is
an Ethernet Board available manufactured by Hydra Systems.
As for Networking Software, you may use ENLAN-DFS devloped by
Interwoks, which is using the DECnet network protocol. But I don't
know if DECnet protocol networking software is available for the
MACs.
Thanks for the info, Werner.
I believe that DECnet protocol networking software IS available
because Digital's PATHWORKS software supports MAC Connections. This
would indicate to me that such networking is available and in use.
For DEC to support MAC Networking, you know that there has to be a
large market for it. Cruising on AutoPilot in the Nickel City!
What's AS255? Is that the networking software package that includes
Envoy? Or is it separate?
AS225 is Commodore's part number for their port of TCP/IP for the
Amiga. Envoy is something else, I'm not exactly sure what, I think
it's an Amiga only network or something, whatever it is, it's not
released yet (that I know of), so can't be counted.
I have! I'm what you call freelancer (I think) and have integrated
an Amiga in Ethernet based Networks with Macs and PCs
1.) with TCP/IP and NFS with the Commodore Ehternet-Card and TCP-Soft
(I can't remember Commos number-codes, sorry). The mainly Mac-Based
Network runs on AppleTalk, which is implemented with a Software
called EtherShare on a SUN Sparc-Station. The Amiga goes in via NFS
and shares the same Volumes and printerspoolers as the Macs. This one
works very, very good and is my favourite. Although the installation
was quite hard. The Commo handbook for the TCP-Soft allways pointed
to the UNIX-references and send me to the net administrator for
"further device". But he couldn't help very much – because that was
me at the moment!
2.) with Novell-Client-soft for the Amiga by ACS, distributed by Oxxy,
I think. Ehternet-card used was Hydra. This works okay, but I don't
like the Novell tools very much. The biggest fault of the environment
is the lack of multiple printers on the Amiga side. Although it is
able to give printer output from the Amiga prt: to any network
printer, you have to totally reconfigure the software, if you want to
change the printer.
Hope this helps. Feel free to answer any specials, I will answer if I
can
… over the ocean
Jochen, Stuttgart, Germany with AutoPilot
For my particular needs, which would be transferring occasional files from
the Mac to the Amiga, I think I'm just going to go with hardwiring the two
machines together. The network is too small and the Amiga port needs too few to
get involved overkill. As I get further into analyzing the situation, I may
simply opt for Syquest 44Meg and 88Meg cartridges written in PC format (via
AccesPC) and go with SneakerNet.
Jerry
mmh,
well you might be right. For occasional transferrence, that might be okay.
Do you have a solution, that makes ist possible to read PC or Mac
formatted Syquest-Cartridges readable on the Amiga?? I couldn't think of
any, but would be quite interested…
but depending on the filesize and the speed, you could still connect the
two machines together with a null-modem-cable. Thats an easy but working
solution. For transferring files from Mac to Amiga, you have the advantage
that you do not have to deal with resource and data forks. And you coud
use stuffers for speed gain. I use Stuffit and lharc on both sides, Amiga
and Mac for transfer (lharc on PC as well) works okay for me (Tiffs,
Targa, EPS and Postscript code)
let me hear from you
… over the ocean
Jochen, Stuttgart, Germany with AutoPilot
I think I'll just use a direct-connect. For the amount of material I'll be
transferring, it seems to be the simplest solution.
Jerry
Better than the sneakernet, try TWINEX.LZH. It connects PCs and Amigas
through the serial port, with a transfer rate up to 200k/sec, and is able
to launch CLI/DOS commands from one machine to another. You will need both
versions (Amiga and PC). It is available in CIS I cannot remember where.
Rafa <Motorola Inside>
…via AutoPilot 1.061 now from M|nchen
Thanks, Rafael!
That definitely sounds worth both a look and a try!
Jerry