CompuServe Thread

#Continued.. some ideas

7 messages in this thread
#96561From: Dave HaynieDec 4, 1987 5:36 AM
Mail a disk to every user!>!?!? You mean like Apple…no, maybe Microsoft, noooo, not them. Not IBM, fer shure. Who does this? I really though we did a good thing by updating the OS for $15.00. Seesh, IBM doesn't even include the OS. Maybe if we charged big bucks for it like, say, a CAD package, maybe $1000 extra or so, it's certainly a more complex and expensive piece of software then 99.9% of all user applications, and it must be impecibly documented, supported, etc. -Dave
#96760From: Marlene ZenkerDec 5, 1987 10:09 AM
Well said Dave, why people would complain about a $14.95 upgrade is beyond me. Marlene
#96950From: Ben BlishDec 6, 1987 12:32 PM
It would have been a good thing if CBM had made it official — since even after they started shipping it, it wasn't included with the new systems, it was very unclear to the user base just what the heck 1.2 was supposed to be… upgrade, revision, bug fix, what? And yes, it would be expensive to do. Unfortunately. Also unfortunately, most Software vendors won't own up to the fact that when you sell a package and tell a user "it does this here thing", and then the user tries it and not only does it NOT do said thing, but blows up the system as well, that the vendor has an obligation to bring the package at LEAST up to the level where it works as advertised. The solution is either don't ship it till it works (unlikly, I'll grant you that… especially in the case of something as complex as the Amiga) or provide those who paid you perfectly good money for a broken product (transformer, AmigaDOS, TextCraft, Intuition, various DOS commads, and so on) with versions that WORK. Transformer, for instance, is a perfect example of a program where CBM should (a) fix it, (b) refund ALL the money it took in. Responsibility. WHy is that an undefined term for CBM? –Ben–
#97228From: Dave HaynieDec 7, 1987 10:57 PM
I do agree they should have handled the semantics better. As in, "this is an official update of the AmigaOS, and will now be the only official, supported, Amiga OS", cause that's reality, as opposed to "hey guys, we've got this nifty 'enhancer' package you may care to buy". We've flamed the sales organization about this; hopefully it will be different when the next OS release is out. As far as Transformer goes, (A) Commodore doesn't own the program, they had it developed outside, and (B) there are free patches available that let it work under 1.2 and with extra memory. Had Simile followed the rules we outlines for software, these patches wouldn't have been necessary. As far as bugs in the operating system, the software folks came up with a large number of patches and workarounds for existing bugs, and fixed all kinds of stuff with 1.2. Every program that failed due to a 1.1 bug gets fixed if it runs under 1.2. Commodore certainly understands responsibility, that's why we tell developers what rules they must follow to write programs in the operating system, not just what the OS does. WHY is it so hard for some companies to follow such rules? -Dave
#97341From: Ben BlishDec 8, 1987 4:26 PM
You have me there, Dave, you really do. Actually, the level of compatability between 1.1 and 1.2 is astounding… our stuff is really quite complex, and it worked flawlessly when we got the 1.2 stuff – with the exception of that 1 pixel correction that was in the early beta releases for the sprites… but that didn't make it to the release 1.2 anyway, so I have no gripe there. Dave, how "official" is your presence here? We (SoftCircuits programmers, inclusive) have a list of things we would like to see in the system, most of which are both reasonable and across the board useful. Wanna see em? Would it do any good? –Ben–
#97350From: Ben BlishDec 8, 1987 4:38 PM
As far as transformer goes, it was NOT simile who was selling it; It was Commodore. That makes it Commodores baby. It was commodore that claimed compatability though emulation. It doesn't work anymore, if you accept that (a) 1.2 is the standard DOS, (b) that an Amiga can have autoconfig memory > 512k, (c) that an Amiga can run a processor other than a 68000. 68020, for example. You cannot put the blame on Simile. As a matter of fact, SImile has gone on to prove the point that the emulation is perfectly feasable as a commercial product. It runs just fine on an Atari, doesn't it? Furthermore (Hearsay, this is) I understand that there IS a version that runs with 1.2 and expanded memory (prob'ly not with an 010 or an 020, but…) and CBM has the unmitigated gall to hold it back. They have an obligation to the poor suckers who bought Transformer to at least release it. They have no business getting into a squabble with Simile to the point where they cannot responsibly service their customers. If we (SoftCircuits) had products that broke under 1.2, and didn't supply some path to the users, I'm sure we'd be in a lot of hot water. Fortunatly, it's not a problem for us. I think transformer is one of those really bad mis-steps you hope a company never makes. –Ben–
#97570From: RON TROYDec 9, 1987 9:25 PM
I suggest you have a long talk to Bill Teal about what happened on Transformer 1.2. It seems to me that there has been a lot of misunderstanding all over on this topic, and if nothing else, why don't we try to clear the air on it. Mr McIntyre (have I spelled that right) told me at Amiexpo that CBM was about to release xfrmr 1.2, though I think you've made it clear here that this won't happen. A number of people ask whether it can run on the 500 or 2000 – a definitive answer and explanation about the keyboard problem would really help here. I'd also like to mention that I've heard that sales of PC Ditto on the ST are going very well – many of us are very disappointed that we don't have 'our' product. Don't get me wrong – as I said in a very recent message, I think CBM is really working hard to clean up its act, and I'm very happy to have my 2000. I wiou the best of luck in maintaining this new momemtum. Ron