#HiRes Prints/render prob
40 messages in this thread
I may be doing something wrong, but want to be sure it isn't something
really stupid:
I recently tried to render a large (2250 x 2250) pixel single frame
image to *.TIF file using R3. Several problems emerged:
1. Even though scene only had 2 objects and 1360 vertices (27200
faces) it took 32 minutes to render and endless paging to disk.
Mem used: 29144MB (my machine has 32MB so that is about right)
Swap: 43204 (I have never had problems with swapping, but always done
640 x 480 flics before.
Page faults: 75660
2. After all this work (rendered to NULL driver) I tried to open the
image in Photostyler and was given an "Unknown file type" message,
even though Photostyler reads TIF supposedly. I even tried importing
as RAW image, but just got garbage, although I may not have used the
correct numbers.
Are these numbers typical? Is anyone else trying to make hi-res large
prints (or not that large)? If so, are more MB mandatory? What is
the best way to peek at these large files (I haven't installed
Photoshop since my disk number 1 was defective).
The huge size of your output image is the reason for the paging.
There's a file in DL3 called 3DSRAM that explains how to calculate
memory usage in 3D Studio. You might want to download it and look it
over. There are a lot of different things that can eat up RAM and
disk space. As for PhotoStyler not reading the TIF file, it's
probably because PhotoStyler version 1 can't read compressed TIFF's,
and that's the default TIFF output in 3ds. You can either rerender
with the Compressed button turned off, or get PhotoStyler 2.0. (If
you've already got PhotoStyler 2.0, I don't know why it can't read
your image.)
– Jack
We are having a problem with 3DS3 where a reasonably large render out to a
Vista display is taking about 40 minutes on a 32MB RAM 486-66.
After the render you can see that the render took 19MB ram and swapped out 5MB.
Why is it constantly swapping when there is heaps of ram left?
I tried exiting 3DS to DOS and then firing it back up and loading the 3DS file
and then going straight to render. Massive disk swapping again even though it
had only used about 19MB of the 32, and had created a 8MB swap file.
Why is it swapping long before memory is full, even though you exit to dos and
come back in again.
I tried booting off a clean system with only HIMEM.SYS loaded, and the drivers
for the Vista board, but no change. Tried removing Himem.SYS altogether, but it
seemed to get worse.
Any ideas?
Mike:
If you just enter 3D Studio and hit the "?" key, how much memory does 3DS see
as available? There is a possibility that your bios doesn't support that much
memory.
Greg Pyros [Pyros Partnership, Inc] 14-Dec-93 at 8:58p PST
3DS reports 31 odd MB available on my system
Michael:
>> 3DS reports 31 odd MB available on my system
If you are swapping at 18 megs, I'd have to agree that it was _odd_ memory! <g>
Do you have Pharlap configured to only use 19megs? Type "config386 3ds.exe"
and see what your pharlaps switches are set to, then check the installation
guide to see if your values are really what you want.
Hope it helps,
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
Unfortunately Pharlap is ste correctly. Sometimes it will actually use 26MB
before swapping, it is not getting to a set value before it swaps, but it
always does it far too early
Then it's a mystery to me. Things like that always end up being memory
conflicts on my machine, but I never had your exact symptoms, so… But when
evil stuff like that happens I usually start my detective work in the memory
conflict (hardware, software, mem managment, tsr's, etc…). Have you tried
rendering the exact same project on another machine?
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
I have now tried the render on another similarly configured machine (Same
memory and BIOS, same Autoexec, config, and 3DS.SET and 386CFIG) and it works
A-ok on one and no on the other. Buggered if I know.
Thanx
Michael,
just a thought – but are you using a software cacheing program, like
smartdrive? If so, you might want to disable it.
Martin:
What are you doing up this late at night?
Greg Pyros [Pyros Partnership, Inc] 17-Dec-93 at 1:15a PST
Greg,
>> What are you doing up this late at night? <<
I'm up so late (it's 2:10am now) because I'm catching up on Asoft messages and
this is the only time I get to do it. Since I'm so busy and all 🙂
nO caching enabled, I tried coming up completely "clean" but to no avail,]
Thanx fo the suggestion though
For some reason, Phar Lap is only seeing 20MB of the RAM in your system. This
could be due to a bios setting, memory manager config, or Phar Lap switches.
I'm sure that one of the many hardware experts here on the forum would have a
suggestion for you. (I seem to remember something about how certain machines
wouldn't recognize all of their memory unless you changed a bios or memory
manager setting.)
– G
No, Phar-LAP sees all 32MB, and sometimes will use as much as 26MB before
swapping.
I wish I could help you, but it sounds like your machine has some sort of a
curse on it.
Perhaps swapping out the memory would be someplace to start.
– G
It actually sounds pretty normal! File size doesn't surprise me.
Especially if you are using a background bitmap and need it
rescaled! Also, make sure that "save last image" feature is turned
off, too.
To check your file, set 3DS to the same size as before, and use your
'huge' file as a background. Tell 3DS to save it as an UNcompressed
Targa, which PhotoStyler reads just fine. This will tell you if the
file was originally saved OK.
I always try to keep 100megs of optimized disk available before
starting on a rendering of this size.
Thanks for the excellent replies on rendering large files. I really
hadn't realized how RAM requirements increased so exponentially!
Great tip on the file checking method, Greg! Attempt to render
uncompressed TIF with Compressed Tif as background gave "Not a TIFF
file" message in 3DS3. Obviously, the file is messed up somehow. I
will try again with to render directly to uncompressed TIF.
Are you using Photostyler 1.1a or 2.0? If so, I would highly
recommend rendering out to JPG files (especially if you are going to
transport them to a service bureau for output!). Both programs
support JPG, and I have brought 3DS3 JPG files (even some 2K files)
into PSTYLER 1.1a using the File/Import/JPEG Image Expand command
with NO problems. Set your quality slider to 80 (I wouldn't
recommend anything less) and you should be set. Let me know how it
works,
I'd personally recommend going out to uncompressed TGA with early version of
Photostyler, and compressed TGA for their current version.
– G
Jack's right about the Tif file format with photostyler. I always use TGA
UNCOMPRESSED output from 3DS and photostyler 1.1 will read that fine. I've
imported 154 meg files already. Of course you know it will take awhile to load
and you will only see a portion on your window.
Have you tried Hi-Res QFX for these huge files? Fantastic program,
and since it is NOT Windoze based, and has it's own 386 protected
mode access, it is much faster. If you deal with this size files a
lot I highly recommend it.
Yes I considered it and wanted to buy a copy but I understand it is a Dongle
worshiper. Against my current religous beliefs. <g>
I just had a chance to play with photostyler 2.0 last Friday. I had considered
upgrading to it but after a half hour on Photoshop 3.0, I'm convinced I will
make the switch this week. Do you use Photoshop?
No, I haven't tried PhotoShop. As far as I am concerned, the only
thing worse than dongles is Windoze! Not for me on large files,
thank you!
Greg: The one thing about Photostyler is it does it's own memory handling
INDEPENDENT of Windows. I have run into memory bog-downs in all other Windows
programs, at various times, but never (never say never) with PStyler. Plus, v2
allows you to load and edit only part of a larger image.
Dave
Dave:
>> Plus, v2 allows you to load and edit only part of a larger image.
That would be a help! Can you also work in a 'proxy' mode, where the program
shrinks the whole image to the size of your screen, and allows you to work on
it there? If so, it might be worth my taking a look at!
Greg Pyros [Pyros Partnership, Inc] 13-Dec-93 at 11:09a PST
PMJI, Greg
Maybe you can give me your thoughts about this… If I have a file that I'd
like imaged to film and printed, how can I be absolutely sure that the final
dimensions of the print are precise? Is there special equipment that a service
bureau or lab should have to do this?
Thanks, Eli.
Eli:
The way we determine size, very unscientifically, is to multiply the dots per
inch on the output by the size of the file. If I output a 2,700 x 2,100 image
to my 300dpi Mitsubishi DyeSub printer, I KNOW that it will be exactly 9" x
7" when it prints out.
Greg Pyros [Pyros Partnership, Inc] 14-Dec-93 at 9:56a PST
Yes… That's how I approach it, too. But, the resolution I need exceeds what
is generally available from dye sub, IRIS, etc. Let's say my image is
6000x4000x24bit and I need to print at 2000dpi. How can I make sure that the
resulting print is precisely 3 x 2 inches? Are there specific output devices
that can handle this?
E.
I'm not quite sure I follow: You can work on the full image at any soom level,
from "Fit in Window" to "1:1" to "32:1" to "1:32", etc. In addition, you can
use "partial edit" to select a portion of the image to work on, and then update
the full image (on disk) whenever you're satisfied.
Dave
Dave,
I think he's talking about loading a scaled down version of a much
larger file, making changes to the smaller file, applying filters and such, and
then once your satisfied with the changes, have Pstyler automatically make the
changes to the full size file. I remember reading that this is a feature of
Pstyler 2.0, although I think only global changes can be applied this way, not
detail work. I just ordered the upgrade but have not recieved it yet, so I'm
not positive about any of this.
David
Yes, I think you can do this. In fact, almost positive — I haven't really had
time to do much other than figure out how to use the new versions of the OLD
features yet!<g>
Dave
Greg,
We work with 25MB for press work and we have to use Windoze because the only
programs that do what we want a program to do are in that enviroment. And we
are happy with the apps (not with Windows 🙂 However, expect Windows to be the
next standard in printing work with the next version. BIG things happening
there regarding color and high end printing.
ana /krazy images
Don,
Hi-Res QFX has removed the dongle.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Photoshop 3.0? A beta? Could you tell us more about it, Don?
ana "currectnly using 234 graphics programs" 🙂 Gervas
It was pretty impressive, but I never worked with earlier versions. Some of
the features that are similar to photostyler worked more precisely in
photoshop. Also, if this is relevant, the MAC and Windows versions are
identical in features. Uses the same manual.
There is a workshop January 22 in Orlando. Call 407-382-6829
I would try to get a beta, thanks!
ana /krazy images
Ana, I must apologize. Yesterday I tried to get a copy for what "THAT" guy at
the show said and they now deny the product. It seems he led everyone to
believe the photoshop 3.0 was the windows ver. It was indeed only ver 2.5 that
I saw. The MAC ver was release 3.0. The point was that the Mac ver 3.0 and
the windows ver 2.5 are supposed to be identical in features. At any rate, I
don't care what # it is I really liked what I saw and will go for it rather
than the upgrade to my photostyler 1.1. I still think Photoshop seemed easier
to use than the photostyler 2.0.
>>imported 154 meg files already.
Wow! Was this a wall mural or the digitized photograph of the pentium chip?
That sounds like about a 3 x 4 foot 300dpi image. What do you print it on? The
Iris printer I think will do close to that, but I thought it digitally
increased the resolution from a 150 dpi source.
Lydell