Welcome
57 messages in this thread
Are there any plans for offering a 'template' package for SuperBase4?
Sure would be nice to have something like Templicity for Analyze!
I purchased S4 when it was a Precision product (and registered it as
such)… does Oxxi have that registration info?
Welcome online! I'm glad you floks are here,
Michael
….from the north coast
What a good suggestion! I'll pass it on to our development and planning
people right away.
I'd like to see a couple of simple, intuitive applications developed from
Superbase Pro4, for checkbook accounting and household accounts for
example, made available here online for Superbase users. I'll be talking
to Mike Uman here, who's interested in developing dependent apps for the
program.
Regards, Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
Pat:
Don't bother too much with getting someone to write simple household SB4
dependent apps… nobody (in their right mind) is gonna lay out the cash
for SB4 to balance/track a checbook! WHat I'd like to see, are examples of
real database modules, ie: acct's rec/pybl, inventory mngmt, record
keeping, etc. Simple mailing lists, and other flat file stuff can be
accomplished by many less expensive and less capable products than SB4.
In fact, releasing such trivial stuff and calling 'typical' of what SB4 can
do, might actuall backfire and imply to the person looking at purchasing
SB4 that it can ONLY handle simple database tasks.
We need examples that show (and document) and to take full advantage of
SB4's advanced capabilities as a relational database that can handle IFF's
as well as ascii data.
Michael
….from the north coast
Michael, re 'nobody is gonna lay out the cash for SB4 to balance/track a
checkbook'…. well, if there was a distributable 'player' for SB4 (ala
Paradox's RunTime), then I think you'd see LOTS of home/small biz apps
showing up. Will Oxxi release such a player? Beats me….
–jp–seattle–
Is that an invitation??
Oxxi has the Superbase Pro4 Runtime module out in beta even as we Whap!,
and we expect a release sometime in the next two months.
Developers should address their correspondence in this matter to
Gary Bonham
Director of Software R&D
Oxxi, Inc
P O Box 90309
Long Beach, CA 90809-0309
USA
Regards, Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
Outstanding news Pat!
Michael
….from the north coast
That's great. I'll certainly copy down your address.
Will the 'RunTime' be ala the Paradox one? ie. Cheap! And easy to use? To
use Paradox RunTime you just copy their runtime files into a dir, and your
individual scripts and tables (databases) into it's own dir. Basically run
it by saying 'RunTime <mainScriptFile>' and that was it. You didn't need to
compile anything. Made multiple applications smaller, since you only
needed one copy of the 'runtime' module. On the amiga it would be great if
the runtime code was able to be made resident, so multiple apps could use
it at once?
–jp–seattle–
I'm not sure how the Runtime Module operates, and pricing has not been set.
I think you can assume, however, that it will be set up like the Windows
Runtime license. After all, developers are expecting to be able to
"unlock" their applications from requiring purchase of the Superbase
package, and that is a true loss of revenue for Oxxi.
NICE for the end-users, though, who shouldn't mind having to pay a little
more to cover the license for the runtime module, rather than a more hefty
payment for a complete product…
Regards, Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
Pat, in the spirit of discussion, I've gotta disagree with you.
Encouraging developers to 'unlock' their apps from requiring the purchase
of SB4 would in no way lead to a loss of revenue for Oxxi, IMHO. As said
here, someone who wants a checkbook program is hardly likely to go out and
purchase SB4. But they may well purchase a checkbook program based on SB4,
if I wrote it and it was good/cheap enough. Your ONLY chance is to
convince developers to use YOUR product, rather than anothers. Pricing
should be cheap, enough to cover your costs and not much more. (say $100
for a 'RunTime' package that allows me to develop as many apps as I want,
for as long as I own SB4)
I'll use Borland as an example (again). They developed a 'RunTime' package
for Paradox that encouraged developers and corporations,etc to settle on it
as their database language (well, the quality of the product didn't hurt
either). They realized that they needed to get their product in the hand
of developers and of companies. It's very effective for both of those
groups to use a runtime product, because developers don't want to force
their customers to purchase a whole product (Paradox) that they don't need,
and companies don't want to have copies of Paradox on every machine, when
all they want is to run a dang application.
Result? Well, Borland ain't doing bad. I think that as developers (large
and small) release their apps, their customers lean towards getting the
entire Paradox program. They begin to see what else they can do with it.
Companies buy more copies so that individual dept's can do more with their
hardware. The key is that they lean towards purchasing Paradox because
they have a familiarity with it already, and know its power.
I wish I could find the magazine that announced the release of a Commodore
AmigaVision 'player' program. So that developers could use AV to develop
standalone apps. The price was way too high (sorry I cannot remember the
exact $), and you had to purchase a seperate license for each product
[ MORE ]
Maybe the question is, is Superbase Pro4 designed as a developer's
environment, or is it intended as a database manager that simply lends
itself to extended development?
Most users with SBP4 seem to be using the straight-forward interface,
rather than designing forms. The people designing forms are often looking
at distributing (maybe selling, maybe giving away) their apps at more than
one location. Right now, the only option for the Amiga is a $300 charge
for each site for Superbase, plus whatever price the developer puts on the
app.
Surely a license or royalty fee for a RunTime Module can be a lot less than
$300, and still leave room for compensation back to Oxxi!
Regards,
Whap!penned… Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
Pat, you ask if SB4 should be a developer or end-user product? I guess it
depends on what ballpark you want to play in…. it's ok to have weak
developer support if you're aiming for home users; but if you want to be in
the small-biz/corporate market, you'd better step things up and fully
support both markets.
I'd suggest that the two important uses for a database in the small-biz
market are for 1) running canned applications that the small-biz can just
purchase, and 2) develop their own individual databases.
OTOH a corporation needs to 1) develop applications for company-wide use
(tied into net, preferably), 2) develop individual databases for some
users.
In both cases if you provide the developer with an easy, cheap way to
'untie' their application from the need to either purchase SB4 at all (the
small-biz user) or to purchase multiple copies (the corporate user) then
you have done the developer a great service. And that will attract more
developers, which will convince more folk to just purchase the entire
package themselves.
— surely a license… can be a lot less than $300 and still leave room for
compensation to Oxxi!– Hey, I want you to make money. I hope Oxxi makes
a ton of money on SB4/5/6/etc…. More profit for you should translate into
better support and development for SB4 on the Amiga, right? 🙂
I just wanted to express my view that the EASIER and CHEAPER you make it
for developers to use *YOUR* product, the better off you'll be in the long
run. 🙂 TTFN
–jp–seattle–
[ continuation ]
developed. I have to wonder what incentive that gives anyone to purchase
AV, when there are other viable competitors that offer equivalent product
and better support?
Anyway, I really think a 'developer and end-user' friendly RunTime program
(ie. easy to use, cheap, easily available) would strongly enhance your
Amiga prospects. Hey, I think you should make it a freely distributable
player…. and release one sans interface, so that folks could use SB4 as a
database 'engine' only in other apps (ie. in conjunction with CanDo,
Foundation, Director, or with their 'C' progs, etc). Just IMHO, of course!
🙂
–jp–seattle–
Add my support 100% for this. Really there are two seperate user
communitys, developers and end users. My clients don't care how the app
runs, but when they have to shell out $300+ for a database, and they don't
know or care what a database program is, it takes a bit of salesmanship.
The capability to create and modify programs,files,screens, etc is
completely separate from the ability to use an application which uses the
screens,programs, files, etc. The easier it is to sell applications, the
more developers will buy the expensive PRO version.
– Whapping! from Los Angeles…. Peter Bradley
I don't have any more influence that simple input on this decision process,
but I will certainly pass your comments along to the people who do.
I do believe that the Amiga community loses access to a lot of top-quality
software that MIGHT be written, because the market doesn't support that
process. Part of that lack of support is this idea that Amiga stuff has to
be CHEAP to sell.
It's kind of like the old joke about the widget manufacturer whose product
cost $1 to make, but who sold it for 90 cents because "that way people will
buy more, and I'll make it up in volume…"
Regards,
Whap!penned… Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
I'm all for everyone making lots of money, and a good product is certainly
worth some money. Another issue that makes me really want a runtime or
player type environment is the size of the program. SBPro4 is quite large
to keep loaded all the time, and on most machines, loading it to pop up an
address book, money manager, etc is too slow. Maybe improving it's
accessability via arexx so it can be used as a database "engine" would help
justify leaving it running at all times, so arrexx or front ends could
access it for data. All in all I am very happy with the latest version.
Especially when Idiscovered I no longer have to program the scrolling of
transaction fields. What a relief that is. Now if I could figure out how to
enter an unlimited number of relational transactions without programming
control, I would be ecstatic (sp). The main thing I like using a database
for is so I don't have to program all stuff that is common to every
application. If I have to really start slinging the "DML", I would just as
soon code in C or C++ where I can do _exactly_ what I want to do.
– Whapping! from Los Angeles…. Peter Bradley
Pat,
So far in reading all the messages you're getting I've only read about
SBP4. What is the story on the lower end SB's (in my case SBP2)? Is Oxxi
handling them? Are there plans to update them to WB2.04 look? When?
Oh! by the way, WELCOME!
Rodger
– via Whap!
Rodger, the current development plans for the Precision line are focussed
on the Professional 4 product, but the Personal version will not be
ignored. I'm not sure if development plans for this product call for a 2.0
look.
Regards,
Whap!penned… Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
Thanks Pat,
By the way, what would it cost me to upgrade to SBPro4?
Rodger
– via Whap!
jp:
good point. After all, SB4 _is_ a programming evironment.
Michael
….from the north coast
John,
Hi. I see you have SB4. How do you like it? I was thinking of getting it.
Also, does it support 8SVX sound files? In other words, if you have a
sample database, can you audition the sounds from within the database?
Thanks.
Dom Fontana
Go for SB4. All the stuff you used to have to program in previous releases
is now build in. I don't know the specifics of sound samples, but It would
be quite easy to fire off a command to an external sound player if SB4
can't do it directly.
– Whapping! from Los Angeles…. Peter Bradley
Peter,
Thanks for the info on SB4.
Dom Fontana
I've never used SB4 for sound samples (do for images all the time, works
fine). The manual says that the 'External File Field' will work with 1)
text files, 2) Image file (IFF, PCX, GIF), 3) sound files (8XVX, plain
sampled sound).
The database itself only holds a pointer (path and filename) to the data
file (image, sound, etc). Once you have defined the field and set up your
data, you bring up the record you want (by whatever sorting/selecting way
you want) and click on an 'External File' button. It either shows your
image, or plays your sound (I know it shows the picture; I assume it plays
the sound 🙂
So I think the answer is 'yes'. How do I like it? A whole lot. It's not
FoxPro or Paradox, but it's by far the best on the Amiga, and it has some
features that others don't. Reasonably easy to set up databases, work with
entry; has a real nice way of doing the filters/sorting/selecting of
records. Not really fast, but ok. The current ARexx support is ok, but
I'd like to see commands added for transferring data between ARexx and SB4
via stem variables. Some other things too. If you have any other
specific questions let me know….
–jp–seattle–
John,
Thanks for all the info about SB4.
Dom Fontana
You'd be surprised what people want (REALLY want) to see in the way of
examples and pre-developed apps. The main reason a simple (but still
relational, multi-file) app would be of value as a freebie would be that it
could be easily picked apart by the beginner in the process of learning to
develop more sophisticated modules.
BTW, our tech support mail re Superbase is being analyzed (via Superbase
and our unreleased statistics program) for real numbers on just this kind
of request.
Regards, Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
"…it could be easily picked apart by the beginner in the process of
learning…"
Pat,
That's what I'm asking for!
Michael
….from the north coast
Right, Michael. Like a neat genealogy application, with pictures of each
of the people that will display onscreen when you call up his record.
Betty
hehe… I gues we know where _your_ head is! Good idea, too.
Michael
….from the north coast
Such an application is extremely simple to devlop in Superbase, which
started out with lots of image-handling capabilities, and has become easier
to use for development with the Forms Editor.
The most basic application would be a standard database with an external
field containing the path/filename of the image file. Clicking the camera
tool will display the image.
From there, you could build a form with a radio button to perform the same
command, or even a window to automatically display the scaled image in the
form each time the record is opened.
Regards, Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
Pat,
I'm not concerned about being able to display the images with the records.
My concern is about writing all the programs that will print out the
reports that genealogists have to have, and then having the data in the
database automatically turned into book form. My genealogy program does
this for me, complete with footnotes or endnotes. I'm not sure I would
EVER get SuperBASE programmed to do all I would want it to do.
Betty
Well, that's part of the beauty of Superbase — the POTENTIAL is there for
anything you want to accomplish in the way of data management, but for
specific applications, ready-to-go, you may have to wait until someone else
perceives the need (sees the $$ in it) and writes the app.
Regards, Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
I agree with Pat – Michael;
Even for those of us who already own SBPro4 – Why should we have to
reinvent the wheel. If someone else has written an application that I
don't have (or haven't written myself) – then sure, I'd like to see it.
Maybe use it, maybe adapt it to my needs.
– Roy Pahnke – Casper, Wyomin'
I know there are a lot of arrogant programmers out there who feel that
looking at someone else's code is a waste of time, but I've always found it
helpful to have an example in front of me — I don't have to use it, but I
can often learn from it.
Regards, Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
If I can get some code that is even close to what I need, I can't see
spending any time re-inventing it. Lets get some pre-rolled applications
for SBPRo!! I should check the SPC area. Maybe the windows version is
getting some action. What would be really nice is a utility to convert a
screen file (.sbv?) into the appropriate DML code, or an Amiga to Windows
screen conversion utility. Even if it wasn't perfect, just getting most of
the work done by computer would help us that develope on the amiga expand
our market tremendously.
Now I'm rambling.
– Whapping! from Los Angeles…. Peter Bradley
Pat,
I to would like to see some common useful apps for SBPro4, in particular
a Checkbook accounting app that uses scrolling transaction lines would be
great.
..Steve
Whap!ping from beautiful coastal South Carolina
Michael,
Yes. Precision sent all of the registration info to Oxxi. They have your
information.
Darin, SPC Superbase Technical Support
Thanks Pat. It's' good to know that you folks have the registration info.
What is the curent release version of SB4? I have version 1.0… what do I
need to do to upgrade to the current version (and what is the cost)?
Michael
….from the north coast
The upgrade from 1.0 to 1.01 is free upon registration. It is sent out
automatically (I know, I'm the automaton) when your registration card is
received at Oxxi.
Regards, Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
Pat:
"The upgrade from 1.0 to 1.01 is free upon registration. It is sent out
automatically (I know, I'm the automaton) when your registration card is
received at Oxxi."
Huh? You just told me that you had the registrations from Precision/SPC. I
sent mine in the day I bought the program. I've never received any upgrade
notice, and now your telling me that I should send in the registration
card.
So, back to my original question… how do I get the upgrade?
Michael
….from the north coast
Patricica…
Got your email. Thanks.
Michael
….from the north coast
Michael, I think you're confusing messages from Darin at SPC Superbase
Technical Support with notes from me here at Oxxi. Darin still lends his
expertise to the Amiga Superbase support threads here on CompuServe, but
the registration database is now located at Oxxi in Long Beach.
Regards, Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
Pat,
I have a question conerning future development of Superbase for the Amiga.
Since the Amiga version is now separated from SPC, will upgrades still
coincide with the IBM Windows version of Superbase? IE: I know that V2.0
is in the works, will there be an Amiga version 2.0? Will compatibility
with the Windows version remain a high priority item?
Joe
Compatibility with the PC version IS a high priority for us. The upgrade
for the Amiga version to the 1.3 version level is ongoing here, and as I
Compatibility with the PC version IS a high priority for us. The upgrade
for the Amiga version to the 1.3 version level is ongoing here, and as I
have been told we have a source code agreement with SPC, it should be a
continuing process of upgrading until the products remain compatible
"naturally".
Regards, Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
Pat:
You're right. I didn't pay attention to the message header <blush>. But
it's taken care of now. Thanks.
Michael
….from the north coast
Pat:
Is there any upgrade path from Suprbase Personal? I haven't used it for a
very long time. Nor have I used it for any upgrades. But I noticed it on my
shelf the other day and wondered if there was anyway to use it to move up
to Superbase IV?
Regards Charles
Superbase Personal can be upgraded to the current version of Superbase
Professional 4 for US$ 135. The upgrade process requires that you be
registered in our database. You can call us at the number below, or use
E-Mail to let me know what your registration number is.
Regards,
Whap!penned… Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
Pat:
> Superbase Personal can be upgraded to the current version of Superbase >
Professional 4 for US$ 135. The upgrade process requires that you be >
registered in our database. You can call us at the number below, or use >
E-Mail to let me know what your registration number is.
Thanks for the info. I'll be calling the OXXI number you provided. Would
the registration number would be somewhere in the manual or on my original
disk?
Regards Charles
The location of the serial/registration number would depend on where you
registered your product (with Precision or with Progressive Peripherals).
When you don't have a disk envelope with a pre-printed serial number on it,
and you don't have a retained half of a registration card with the number
printed on it, you should have received a registration notice with the
number on it.
Product shipped from Oxxi, by the way, always has the serial number
individually printed on the program disk label.
Regards,
Whap!penned… Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
Pat:
>The location of the serial/registration number would depend on where you
>registered your product (with Precision or with Progressive Peripherals).
I registered with Progressive Peripherals and I've found the serial number
in the cardboard foldout thingy.
Do I also need to do the things you mentioned in your EMail message? Or can
I just call OXXI at the number you provided and give them my serial number.
If I recall my Turbotext order, OXXI takes the major cards right? And btw,
is there an upgrade to Turbotext coming. Rumour has it that a new version
with UNDO is close to release.
Regards Charles
Pat @ Oxxi,
What is the upgrade cost from SBP2 to SBPIV?
Rodger
– via Whap!
Superbase Personal (either version) to Superbase Professional 4 is a cost
of US$ 100.00 plus $7 shipping inside the US. If you are outside the US,
please contact either the office in Long Beach California or the office in
England.
Oxxi Inc Oxxi UK Ltd
P O Box 90309 171 Bath Road
Long Beach, CA 90809 Slough, Berks SL1 4AE
USA GB
(310) 427-1227 (44) 0753-551-777
Regards,
Whap!penned… Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
Pat,
I just learned that Oxxi has a Graphics program written by the author of
Photon Paint 2 called Spectracolor. Is it a structured drawing program?
Is there a special price for PP2 owners? I'll E-mail both my Serial
Numbers (registration numbers for PP2 and SBP2).
Rodger
– via Whap!
SpectraColor is a bit-map HAM paint and animation program, and another
version is also available for the HAM-E Graphics Expansion Board from Black
Belt. There is a special upgrade price for Photon Paint 2 users, US$ 49.95
plus shipping, for proof of purchase. For PP2, this consists of either the
first page of the manual, or the release diskettes for the PP2 program.
Oxxi has also just released Presentation Master, a complete presentation
authoring system, which includes a complete structured paint system that
reviewers have compared quite favorably to stand-alone structured paint
programs. Presentation Master, or PMaster as we call it, will also import
Illustrator EPS files as structured paint objects. Outline fonts can also
be handled as structured paint objects.
I'll be uploading a couple of demo stand-alaone shows created with PMaster
in the next few days — they'll be in the library. Watch for them.
Regards, Whap!penned… Pat Cummings @Oxxi
(310) 427-1227
Thanks Pat! Did you get my E-Mail with my registration numbers for SBP2
and PP2?
Rodger
– via Whap!
Pat –
Can you update my regristration online?
I don't really want to post my reg. number in the public forums, but can
I send you email with my new mailing information. Of all the programs I
own SB4 is the one I want to be sure to keep current with.
Let me know if I can send you Email for regristration update info.
– Roy Pahnke – Casper, Wyomin'
Of course — address it to 76711,457 in the EasyPlex area (what everyone
else calls MAIL). I hope you'll include phone number as well as address.
Regards, Pat Cummings @Oxxi (310) 427-1227