#Virtus Walkthrough
12 messages in this thread
This is another response to your reply to my question about the MGA 3D
features in the Micron 60 thread…time for a new thread!
I am trying Virtus Walkthrough this week, and am deadlocked in
passionate love/hate struggle with the software.
Love: Great interface for controlling interactive 3D view.
Hate: It feels like a rough port of the Mac product to Windows…not at all
like a program written for Windows.
Love: Creating "animations" as you go, previewing motions in a very direct
way.
Hate: Not being able to edit the animation paths that you create.
Hate: Crashing every 20 minutes.
Hate: Severe limitations on model complexity and geometry
The ability to do even slow interactive "walks" is a phenomenally
powerful tool for any kind of 3D work. It makes the process of
finding views and paths through the model vastly more intuitive and
leads to a completely different kind of understanding of the model.
It brings the model closer to the modeller. It makes it possible to
explore visual relationships "directly"–the animations that result
are more dynamic and natural in their motion because the path doesn't
have to be "preconcieved" as it does in 3D Studio… Just working
with this program for a few hours on a project has given me some
fresh ideas for animation projects.
However, it doen't seem yet ready for "prime time". I could live
with the slowness, but the bugginess is really driving me crazy. If
I was under any kind of stress, this is the kind of product that
could cause me to have a really bad software day — but it could
(someday) be the $350 answer to the $50,000 Question!
So, I wonder about other avenues towards creating quick interactive 3D
as a means to better animations. This seems like such a potent
area, I hope that Autodesk will give us a taste of this in 3D Studio
someday soon. (How about a 3D accelleration ADI? Why not do a
striped down CDK and put it inside 3DS….Or better yet, put it into
the upcoming Texture Explorer product!
I've never crashed using the MGA 3D dynaview in Acad, so that's one
plus there, and you're not limited to primitive objects, but the less
faces the faster it renders and moves. For perfect fluidity you
really need a super simple object. But I like the MGA for the same
reason you like Virtus walkthrough, plus it's the fastest windows
accelerator on the market. There's a Czech fellow who's expecting
delivery of the MGA Impression like mine, and is going to pursue
writing a 3D real-time viewer IPAS for R3 when the IPAS3 SDK is
released. If he can pull this off I'm going to get on my knees and
know there is a God <g>.
John,
I have been hearing lots of good things about the MGA series, but have been put
off by high prices at the upper part of their line–somehow after years of
paying > $1,500 for a decent graphics card, I am sceptical of anything that
costs more than $500, now that some good boards are out there in that range.
Are the (3D Capable) MGA boards upgradable? Can I add 3D and ram later…???
The cards are not upgradeable. You have to purchase the MGA series with all
desired options already installed.
The MGA II series is around $500, and is super fast but lacks 3D hardware.
The MGA series (I've got the Impression 3/z/v) is around $1000 and up, and has
3D hardware in various degrees of sophistication. My card has z buffer and
Gouraud shading. There is a PRO model with more memory, but I think it's only
for greater 24bit resolution in Windows. I'm not sure it affects 3D
performance.
I think the card was worth it, but if I didn't have the money to spend at the
time I would have bought the MGA II. If I were to buy a second Matrox MGA, it
would be the MGAII (I'll get that with my next system, probably a DEX XL)
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
Sorry for jumping in like this, but what exactly are you using VW for?
I must have missed a pearl in the rough or something, I mean I
purchased the program when released and returned it after finding it
more of a toy then a tool (at this time it was incapable of importing
DXF's, even though it said it could).
Phillip,
So far, I haven't found any PRACTICAL use for the current version of Virtus
Walkthrough. But "working" with (around) the program may give me a better
understanding of the relationship between the 3D spaces I design and 3D
animation. I also see in it, someday, the potential of having a much more
"natural" way of creating animation.
Donald
I agree, the potential is there – it's kind of like a teasing glimpse at what
might one day be practical and VERY useful. Virtual architecture – the
"drafting" pool all standing, or sitting relaxed, walking through the
conceptual structure, adjusting details in place, experiencing space. Where's
Timothy O'Leary? <g>.
Now if my PO for a few SGI Crimsons comes through we'll try it out! <BG>.
– Phil
I'm absolutely agree with your points about interactivity with the 3D model and
the 3D animator.
I said this before, but hre I go again 🙂
Looking at games like Strike Commander, which have an awesome amount of detail
and textures all with gouraud shading (althought it is 320×200), you wonder why
there are not a 320×200 realtime interactive player for 3DS. It doesn't have to
be gouraud, but achieve extreme fluidity in the correct mode (according to the
capabilities of the processor. Get a look to games like X-Wing to see how
effective flat rendering with an huge number of detailed objects could be. The
lighting is dramatic, and I'm sure that, for some projects, this could work
pretty well. I see it as a great medium to record camera tracks that could be
edited later if needed and, finally, to get a clearer idea of what are you
going to achieve with an specific motion before getting into render (better
than previews, of course).
What an about an IPAS?
ana /krazy images
There ARE lots of examples of programs that do a decent job of making 3D
interactive without special hardware, especially in the games department.
This kind of interaction would give 3DS users an incredible way to develop
animation…
Donald
I just saw a short presentation of a product called "stereoCAD" from
"stereoCAD,Inc." Sunnyvale California, tel 408-245-5201 fax -5202;
w/ a 486 66 9,000 polygons per sec
Pentium PC 17,000 polygons per sec
Sun Sparc II 30,000 " " " "
"Virtual Reality Technology," it allows the user to walk thru a wireframe in
real time thru a 3D CAD model and also imports .DXF and .TGA. The goal is
"avoid rendering delays" and make "walk throughs intuiive and simple." There is
no shadow casting. There is instant animation and playback.I have not been able
to stop thinking about this since i saw it, but I need to clarify what I saw.
I wish it existed inside AutoCAD and 3D Studio. There are a number of related
products from this company bundled with different video cards. Call this
company for their brochure and more information.
rachel,
I had heard about Sterio CAD, but it sounded too expensive, and nobody had
actually put it to a test.
Either getting either the software into 3D Studio or a set of 3D polys out as
keyframe paths would be key to making "interactive" an effective way of
developing animation.
Have you or anyone else seen the new Windows ($800) "virtual reality" package
(name?). I glanced at a review of the package in a magazine(?), but the
picture with the story made the software look really hoky.
I have written off a lot of potentially great hardware and software because it
"looked" hoky… Virtus didn't look hoky until I had it installed on my
system. Sterio CAD doesn't look hokey, in fact it looks too serious. I
almost didn't buy a Fargo dye-sublimation printer because I hated the "sample"
images: now that it works, and I can show samples of my work printed on a $1000
printer that compare to samples printed on a $8000 printer, it doesn't look so
hoky to me anymore.
yes, i have heard of this Fargo from Jodie Gebhard at Design Cad in the Bay
Area and trying to get time to try it out…she is very impressed with it too.
For preview printing to inhouse before sending large jobs out to Iris orlarge
dye-subs or Offset; this must be a wonderful tool.
The stereo cad walk thrus do indeed look hokey. The upper level software
system requires a SPEA Graphics board(apparently has quality 3DS drivers) and
it will import an intelligent .DXF from 3DS including the .TGAs and maps if
.TGA but it does not cast shadows; which in my opinion is the meaning of
Architecture (and any other quality Architect's: light/form/space/movement)
But what i wanted was real time wireframe instantaneously and recordable in
acad or 3DS, and thought this would be available on this lower end stereo cad
product called "Realtime," but this requires their TI based cards and only
allows "shaded" walkthroughs($900-$1800ish)…the wireframe walkthrough-what I
would like for landmass, formal and spatial analysis is only available in the
SPEA/ "RT Texture" line; and much more expensive; and then its one more exotic
graphics board and there is no real quality to the textures so for a real (ie.
beautiful, ie with light and shadow) design walk through you'd have to go back
to 3DS anyway.
They are developing the RT product for a graphics board independent version in
Windows…but it sounds like a bit of a while off in the future. They say they
have had no reports of bugginess you reported, with Virtus and from what i
guess this may be related to their DXF reading problems(?what do i know about
the reality underlying any of this stuff i am dependent on now instead of a
paintbrush) Although I am surprised that Virtus hasn't gotten bugs out as that
has been released for a while it seems in Windows. I remeber the .DXF was a
late day feature developed for that first Virtus shipping…I didn't have time
to try it, so i was very interested in your experience.
I am afraid to ask, but do you have the latest release and what did Virtus say
in response to your crash reports?
Meanwhile I am going back to grab John La Luna's Matrox messages and get off of
here…I have been missing alot up here over the last few weeks.