#A1000 enhancements compa
21 messages in this thread
Betty –
Thanks for the speedy reply and the info. What I think I'm hearing is that the
AMIGA bus has some sort of arbitration problems? Does Bill's Board solve that?
Does the 2000 (2500?) solve it? A new version of Kick start?
Sincerely,
Confused. 🙂
Randall,
Yes, the A1000 is only designed for one add-on. That add-on can be a
box or a board. Bill's Board solves some of the problems but not all of them
by a long shot.
With Bill's Board, you have to also buy a power supply and case.
Don
Although the basic rule of one add-on does seem to apply, I have the Supra
interface and the Cardinal Software J-RAM board hooked together to the add-on,
with the Supra on the inside (closest) to the Amiga.
When I first purchased the Supra 20 Meg and hooked it in tandem with the RAM
board, I usually GURU'd within 15-20 minutes of use. At first I thought that
the combination was incompatible due to the RAM board itself but after speaking
to the creator of the board (who no longer makes them) and here on the SIG, I
found out that the most reasonable approach would be to ensure that my PAL
chips were properly grounded.
I spent $60 (if memory serves me right) to have the PALs grounded and I very
rarely get a GURU now even though I have the two peripherals added on to my
1000.
The moral to this story is that is indeed POSSIBLE to have 2 add-ons to the
1000 and that you should first try the PAL-grounding route first before giving
up on one of the peripherals.
— Tom
Yes, it is 'possible'. You've got roughly a 50-50 chance of using 2 SOTS
devices, about a 10-90 chance of 3, 0 chance of 4. Even if you do get 2 (or
more) to work, it isn't guaranteed that everything is rosy, as you indicated
with "I very rarely get a GURU now even though Ihave the two peripherals added
on to my 1000".
-sja
Tom,
As I have stated all along….while many users have 2 and more add-ons
on an A1000…there is no guarantee that any one particular A1000 will work
with any more than 1 add on device. There are quite a few cases of folks
having the PALs grounded and still not being able to use a specific 2 add-ons.
Changing the order of the add-ons sometimes helped, sometimes didn't, changing
one of the add-ons a different board, but same model, brand,etc. sometimes
worked, sometimes didn't.
It's a hit and miss proposition and there are lots of cases of 'misses'
no matter what the user does to try to get the add-ons to work together. The
plain and simple fact is that the side slot on an A1000 (and A500) is rated for
ONE add-on which can be a box or a board.
Don
Randall,
The 1000 was never intended to support more than one expansion unit. Sometimes
you can add more than one and have no problems, but that is not usually true.
If you want to expand the Amiga and you are making a purchase anyway, the 2000
is the way to go. No change of Kickstart is going to to the job for the 1000.
Bill's Board goes a long way, by providing the expandability needed in a single
box – this does eliminate the contention problem, because the 1000 can support
one box with no trouble.
Even so, I'd weigh very carefully the difference between the cost of getting
Bill's Board, setting it up in a proper case, etc. and the cost of just getting
a 2000 to start with. I doubt there will be a great deal of difference, and I
prefer the 2000. I plan to get one in the near future. (I'm still using my
early on 1000.)
Betty
Thanks, Betty.
I love this forum. I learn more a few days than the past 2 years of reading
AMIGA World and beating the bushes for a stable reliable knowledgable store
nearby.
Keep up the great work!
Thanks again. randall
We all learn from each other, Randall. That's what makes this a great place.
We also learn from each other's *questions*. Without questions, there wouldn't
be much discussion, would there?
Betty
Right you are, Betty! So, here's another question…
It is being suggested that if I want to expand my A1000 with hard disk, more
memory, and possibly a bridge board that I *may* do better to just trade in the
1000 for a 2500. To judge well, I would need some idea of what the required
pieces of upgrade equipment would be and what the approximate cost of a 2500
system unit would be. Do you have any estimates of a 1000 expansion chassis
with a bill's board, power supply, cabinet, extra memory and hard disk? And
the approx cost of a 2500?
Thanks. Randall
This isn't a direct answer, but may shed some light… or muddy things further.
I've heard through 2 dealers that Phoenix Technologies is going to market a box
that allows Amiga 1000s to use 2 Amiga 2000 cards. Said box has its own power
supply and is supposed to sell for $250-300. One variant said the box might
also have a processor slot that could run a 68020 card as well as the 2 Amiga
2000 cards. This looks an interesting choice for those who want to upgrade in
stages but don't have the money for a 2000 right now. Does anyone have more
details?
I got a related question to add to the complexity, does a coprocessor board say
a 68020 type count as another board or do they hook in on the 68000 socket? and
can any one give a run down the coprocessor still on the market for the Amiga
1000? (I really have heard about periods, and one of these day I will use one!
😉
Joe
Thanks, Phil.
Your info is a nice combo of interesting new things to consider and muddying of
the waters. From all I am hearing here in the forum, it sounds like the 1000
is a long run dead end. The cost of upgrading – no matter which route – is not
sufficiently cheaper, and problems with the interaction of expansion cards,
lead me to believe I should sell the 1000 system unit and buy a 2000HD.
Anyway – I will keep listening for more info on the Phoenix stuff.
Thanks. Randy
Randall,
I wonder why they are telling you a 2500! If you really need the speed of a
68020 processor and 2M of 32-bit memory, and 2500 is nice, but I rather doubt
that you are needing that speed (from what you've been telling us). I
certainly do not plan to buy it, and neither do most of the rest of us.
I think they are suggesting that you get a 2000HD, and those are a great deal
cheaper – about $1500 cheaper – than the 2500. If you get the 2000HD, my
dealer quoted me a 'user group price' of $2350, which is a discounted price,
but probably a better guide than the list price. That is just for the 2000
with the 2090A controller and a 40M hard disk. You would still need the
monitor (about $350-400 or so, depending on your choice), and if you want the
bridgeboard, I've seen those advertised for $450-500 street prices. The list
is about $600. This would be a 2000 with 1M of memory. I believe you can get
a memory card for that for about $500-600 with 2M of memory, which would bring
you up to a total of 3M. Sure would be a nice system – one I'd like for
myself.
As best I can recall, Bill's Board costs about $500. Then you must spend $100
to $150 more for a case and power supply, and then buy your hard disk,
controller card, and bridgeboard, plus a memory card. The drive and cards will
cost the same whichever way you choose to go. Consider the price you can get
for your 1000, and then count up the cost of the two routes. I don't think the
savings will be worth the cost of not having the 2000.
Randall, I will not put all those things on my 1000. They will wait until I
can purchase the 2000. The 1000 is never going to be able to use the new
graphics chips that will be available s?s, and it will not be able to continue
kee%sg up. Go with the 2000 and add these things as you can. In the long
run, you'll be glad you did. This is from a 1000 owner who plans (eventually)
to go that route.
Betty
Betty – sorry for my confusion about model numbers. I guess I'm still trying
to sort this all out for the first time myself. I thought a 2500 was just a
2000 with a hard disk (a 2000HD by your discription) and I was totally unaware
of the huge difference in the price!
I have the monitor that is on the 1000. Is that one alright? Again, I am not
aware of any other right now.
It sounds like your advice is good and it looks like I will end up doing just
what you suggest – get a 2000 system unit and go from there. Does anyone take
a 1000 system unit in trade? Can the 1000 and 2000 be "linked" somehow to work
in tandem (parallel)? Where might I sell the 1000 and what should I be asking
for it?
Is there more than 1 choice for a 2000 Hard disk? Both in terms of speed and
capacity? I am a software consultant myself using IBMs and compatibles and my
experience says: 1) graphics suck up disk space and 2) access speeds and
transfer rates *count*. Any thoughts you might have would be welcome.
Thanks ever so much. You have clarified weeks of messages rather nicely and I
look forward to hearing from you again.
Randy
Randy,
You can use just about any disk drive you want…and there's no
pratical size limitation (Actualy about 2 Gigabytes or so). You also have
choices of controllers.
The difference in price between the A2000 and the A2500 is that the
A2500 comes with the A2620 co-processor board. Other than that, they are the
same base computer.
Don
Don,
Actually, the 2 gigabyte limitation is per partition. 🙂
-larry
Larry,
Right…per partition…now where did I put that 4 Gig drive, I'll prep
it to 2 partitions…that'll do the trick!
Don
Heehe… on the other hand, in a very few years we'll be laughing out of the
other side of our optical media, and bugging CBM for bigger partitions. 🙂
-larry
Randall,
Commodore has said that the 2000 will be their workhorse machine for a while to
come, and that the new things will be available to 2000 owners on cards to add
to the machine. They have been true to their word so far, and I think that
will remain true for a while. There will – some day – be a new Amiga based on
a 68030 or 68040 chip, but that will probably be aimed at a different market,
though no one really knows right now.
If you are happy with the monitor on the 1000, it will work just fine on a
2000. Some day in the future, you might want to get a monitor with higher
resolution, but it is definitely a matter of choice.
Currently, you can buy a 2000 and use almost any hard disk you choose. You
have a choice of controller cards, also. If you purchase the 2000HD, you will
be limited to the Commodore 2090A cstroller and the drive that is built in. I
think someone said it is a Ronin drive. I know it is 40M. Most people are
pretty well pleased with the 2090A, though a few find fault with it. The GVP
drives and hardcards are getting lots of compliments. Quite a few people are
using Seagates of various sizes and sorts.
There is a PD program called DNET that will let your two Amigas work together,
but I don't know a great deal about that. The program is in the libraries – I
rather imagine LIB 4. You might like to read the docs with it and see if it
will do something you would like.
<continued>
<continuation>
Some dealers will take a 1000 in trade. Mine offers $400 for the 1000. That is
probably about as much as you could get for the bare 1000 without a monitor or
extra drive – but others here will probably know more about that than I. An ad
in the newspaper might sell it. We have an area here where you can post FOR
SALE ads, too – LIB15.
Let us know if we can be of more help.
Betty
Betty:
I think that drive is a Rodime. That's what I was told at a user group
meeting, anyway.
Ariel