#Background problem
22 messages in this thread
To anyone out there–
I've been using 3DS3 for about a month, working my way through the tutorials.
Everything's been going great up till now. While executing Tutorial 9, pg 9-21
(on fogging a bitmap background), I found out that whenever I try to render an
image (any image, fog or not) in which a bitmap background has been specified
in the Background Method dialog box, my system either freezes or resets at the
Rendering progress bar (in the Rendering in Progress dialog box).
This doesn't happen if I specify solid-color or gradient backgrounds, just
bitmap. The type of file (.TGA, .GIF, etc) doesn't seem to matter.
Does anyone have any idea what might cause this, or am I missing something
terribly obvious? Not being able to specify a background bitmap sure puts a
crimp in my ideas. Incidentally, I'm running 3DS3 on a 486DX2-66 system with
20MB RAM.
Thanks for any help!
Hi Elizabeth,
<< wading ..tutorials..>>
That's what we like to hear! :-)..
<< reboot.. >>
The first suggestion is to simplify your config.sys to 2 lines, Files=#value
and buffers=#value.Simplify your autoexec.bat to a path statement and also load
your mouse. With this simplified configuration, what's 3ds' behavior?
Also, review your 3DS vibcfg settings and perform the video tests for the card
and resolution chosen. If you change the choice to vesa compatible does the
behavior change?
jonas[adesk]
Hi, Jonas,
Thanks for responding so quickly!
<<simplify your config.sys>>
<<simplify autoexec.bat to path and mouse driver>>
Unfortunately, the portion of my config.sys specifically for running 3DS can't
get any simpler (it is, indeed, files=40 and buffers=20).
My autoexec.bat consists only of a path statement, the mouse driver, and a line
to run STLBIOS.EXE, which is the TSR for my Stealth 24 VLB graphics card. If I
don't include this line, 3DS kicks me back into DOS shortly after displaying
its configuration line, and leaves my system mightily confused (reboot time!).
<<review 3ds vibcfg settings and perform the tests>>
The current 3ds vibcfg settings employed the Vibrant drivers; all of the tests
came out okay. I changed them all to VESA and ran 3DS, but this unfortunately
did not do anything to help the problem (the only thing it seemed to do was
cause 3DS to reset my machine (instead of merely freezing) each time I tried to
render a bitmap-background image.
Do we have any other clues?
Hi, Elizabeth. PMJI, but I noticed that you have a Stealth 24 card. I missed
the beginning of this thread, so all I know about your problem is the subject.
I had major problems with my Stealth 24 card that had to do with rendering
display, FLC playing, and occasional crashes that became more frequent with
time. My card was the problem. I replaced it with another brand and the
problems disappeared. If there's an easy way for you to test another card,
maybe you can nail down the problem. Good luck.
Regards, Connie
Hi, Connie,
Thanks for jumping in and offering clues!
<<major problem with my Stealth 24 card>>
How fascinating. I haven't (as of yet) had any other problems besides the
use-bitmap-as-background system crash, though, admittedly, I haven't tried to
render any extraordinarily detailed images or animations.
When you changed to a different card, did you change just the brand, or did you
change to a different chipset (the Stealth 24 uses the S3 chipset)? Replacing
my video card is not quite out of the question, as I've had my eye out on some
2MB RAM boards for some other work that I do, but it's not something I can do
easily right now (I'm trying to prepare for a 2000 mile move in just under 4
weeks!).
Thanks again for the help!
Hi, Elizabeth. I upgraded to an ATI Ultra (2 MB) which has been doing it's
job.
2,000 miles is really a major move! I hope you have lots of help and support
from family and friends.
Regards, Connie
Hi, Connie—
Thanks for your suggestions—I really appreciate it. As for the move, it won't
be so bad: My husband and I have spent the last 4 years in DC, and now we're
moving back home to Colorado where friends and family await us. You can't ask
for a better arrangement than that!
Again, thanks!
Elizabeth
You're very welcome, Elizabeth, anytime!
Regards, Connie
Hi Elizabeth,
<< <major problem with my Stealth 24 card>>
How fascinating. I haven't (as of yet) had any other problems besides the
use-bitmap-as-background system crash, though, admittedly, I haven't tried to
render any extraordinarily detailed images or animations. >>
I'll get Nik Grant[adesk] to review this thread. He's the keeper of all vibrant
related issues and may be able to shed some light on your video card.
jonas[adesk]
Hi, Jonas—
Thanks for all your help — I'm quite grateful. For the record, I have the VESA
Local Bus version of the Stealth 24 card.
Despite having gone through the vibcfg settings again and making changes back
and forth between Vibrant and VESA, I haven't been able to initiate any other
unexpected system crashes, nor have I been successful in specifying a
background image without triggering a system reset during rendering. This is a
decidedly odd problem, I'll admit.
In the meantime, I'm still working on those tutorials. I'm having simply too
much fun with material mapping!
Thanks again,
Elizabeth
Hi Elizabeth,
<< config.sys..>>
Why can't you simplify this further? I understand that you may have SCSI
drivers that you might want to load but sound cards should be commented out for
this test as well as any other drivers and memory managers.
jonas[adesk]
Hi Jonas,
<<config.sys>>
Sorry if I confused you; sometimes it's hard to explain something when you
can't show the person what's on your screen.
I'm running a multiple configuration config.sys file (I maintain different
system configuration for Windows, some games, and 3DS). The only two commands
that actually run when I select the "Run 3DS" option from my configuration menu
are the files and buffers statements–no SCSI, no sound, no CD-ROM, no nothing
else.
Again, thanks much for taking time to help with this problem!
Hi Elizabeth. Sorry to hear about your plight. Does it matter whether you have
rescale or tile for the background set in the renderer setup? I've also got a
Stealth 24 and have not had any problems with it with 3DS except with the
currently shipping Vibrant drivers. The newest version (I think 1.0.5 –
shipping with 4c1) does not work correctly with a Stealth 24. You should try
possibly using older drivers – the 1.0.3 drivers work fine. How much RAM does
your system have? If you're paging to disk during a rescale of the background
it could indicate a HD controller problem. Try seeing if you're paging and if
you are make sure you've got enough free HD space left for your swap file. Good
luck.
DM
Hi, DM—
Thanks for jumping in and offering suggestions to this perplexing problem!
<<rescale or tile>>
It doesn't matter whether rescale or tile is specified during rendering; for
that matter, it also doesn't matter what the file format of the background
image is (.tga, .gif, etc.). It's not a problem with the image itself–I can
map the images onto an object; I just can't use it as a background without it
crashing.
<<Vibrant drivers>>
According to the vibcfg display, I've got the 1.0.2.P2 version of the drivers
(these are the ones that came with the software). Obviously, not the newest
ones! That's not completely unexpected, however, as I'm running 3DS version 3.
I'm not sure where I could get the 1.0.3 drivers to try; they didn't seem to be
in the forum library.
<<RAM/disk space/paging/hard disk controller problem>>
An interesting idea, but with 20 MB RAM and 100MB free hard disk space, I'm not
sure it this could be the problem. If I display the current status right before
rendering the scene with a background image, it typically says something like
19K available, 3K used, Swap file: 0 and Page faults 0.
It doesn't seem to matter how complicated the scene is, just that if I choose
Bitmap in the Renderer/Setup/Background branch and specify an image file, as
soon as 3ds hits the "Rendering in progress" status bar, the system either
freezes or does a hard reset. I must say, it's a decidedly strange problem.
Again, thanks for your suggestions!
Elizabeth
Hi Elizabeth,
<< That's not completely unexpected, however, as I'm running 3DS version 3.
I'm not sure where I could get the 1.0.3 drivers to try; they didn't seem to be
in the forum library. >>
How's it been going? Try using the following file and post your results….
File Info for VIB105.ZIP
Section: Autodesk 3D Studio Contributor: 76702,531 Size: 294395
Submitted: 10/7/94 Type: Binary Accesses: 238
Title: Updated Vibrant Inline Driver 3D Studio R3 v1.0.5
Keys: AUTODESK 3D STUDIO VIBRANT GRAPHICS DRIVERS VIB3DS.VLM VIBRANT.RES
Update to the Vibrant Graphics drivers which shipped with Autodesk 3D Studio
R3. Specifically,
this consist of vib3ds.vlm and vibrant.res. Numerous changes.
Caution: This software has not been tested by Autodesk. Use at your own risk.
Autodesk
disclaims any responsibility for supporting users running 3DS R3 with this new
set of drivers.
Note: The 1.0.4 version of this product is NOT supported by Vibrant Graphics.
We are only
supporting users of version 1.0.5.
[download time at 2400 baud: 18 min]
Hi, Jonas,
Thanks for the updated driver reference. I downloaded it and tried it.
All the video tests came out OK, but the problem with specifying a
background image persists. The only change seems to be that the
system now consistently freezes (instead of resetting) at the
beginning of the Rendering in progress… status bar.
I don't know if this is just one of those odd things, but after
loading the new drivers, I noticed that if I specify Gradient in the
Renderer/Setup/Background option and choose 3 colors, the middle
color becomes the color of the unselected cursor-highlighted text
(which should be light blue). Strange. Other than that, there are
no obvious problems or changes since I switched to the new drivers.
Hope this extra information helps with the troubleshooting, Elizabeth
Try looking for the 103 drivers on our Autodesk Global Village BBS: VIB103.ZIP,
in the 3D Studio section, at 415/507-5300.
In trying to diagnose your problems, could you try this?:
*Boot up plain (CONFIG.SYS: Files=40) (AUTOEXEC: Path, Prompt, mouse)
*Run CHKDSK /F on all your hard drives, looking for lost allocation units, etc.
*Rename 3DS3\PROJECTS\3DS.PRJ (if you have one)
*Copy \3ds3\3ds.set to 3dseliz.set (or whatever, for backup purposes)
*Run the Vibcfg – 3ds vibcfg <enter>
*Configure the Rendering display for 640x480x16 colors
*Once in 3D Studio, Renderer/Setup/Background and choose, say, CRUISER.GIF from
the 3DS3\MAPS subdirectory.
*Renderer/Render View to disk (even though there's no geometry or lights)
If this fails, can you note the process that was occurring at the
time of failure? This is a prompt like "Transforming Objects" above
the red rendering status line.
When you exit 3DS, don't forget to copy 3dseliz.set to 3ds.set, to get
back to your original configuration.
Did you have any problems installing 3D Studio? Sometimes during the
install you may be able to get past an error message, but I was
wondering if you encountered anything that would suggest
re-installing 3D Studio again. If you decide to reinstall 3DS again,
you can use your 3DSELIZ.SET to save configuring again, by copying
3DSELIZ.SET over 3DS.SET.
Hi, Nik—
As per your instructions, I booted up as plain as I could get, cleaned up both
my drives with CHKDSK /F, backed up my 3ds.set, configured the Render display
to 640x480x16 colors, chose CRUISER.GIF as my background image, and tried to
render to disk without any additional geometry.
As soon as the Rendering in progress… status bar appears, the system freezes
(there is a single-pixel-wide red line at the beginning of the status bar).
This behavior is no different from the other times I tried to render a scene
with a background image (regardless of color mode or geometry in the scene).
When I used the 102 drivers, the system would either freeze or reset itself,
but after I loaded the 105 drivers, I've only had the system freeze.
Incidentally, I've discovered another problem, which may or may not be related
to the background difficulty–it showed up when I started to work on the more
complicated tutorials. It seems that when I run out of available memory,
instead of the swap file kicking in, I get thrown out of 3ds with the following
error:
Abnormal program termination: Page fault
CS: EIP: 000Fh:0023F5AEh
This is a repeatable error; if I watch my memory usage carefully and, when it
gets close to my total available memory, make my scene more complex and attempt
to render it, I can get 3ds to end with the above message. There is no
observable hard drive activity prior to getting this message. I have not
altered any of the cfg386.exe settings; they are still at their defaults.
In case you don't have all of my system's info, here it is:
Computer: 486DX2-66MHz VLB, 20 MB RAM
Video Board name: Stealth 24 VLB (Diamond; uses the S3 chipset, has 1 MB
RAM)
Video BIOS version: 1.1 (I have a later version of the BIOS, but there's no
difference in 3ds's behavior if I run it instead)
CONFIG.SYS: FILES=40
BUFFERS=20
AUTOEXEC.BAT: PATH=C:\;C:\DOS;D:\;D:\3DS3
C:\MOUSE\MOUSE.COM
PROMPT $p$g
C:\STL\UTIL\STLBIOS.EXE
(STLBIOS is the TSR for the video card; without it, 3ds will not run)
To my knowledge, I had no problem installing 3ds. I sat and watched the entire
installation process like a hawk, and don't recall anything strange occurring.
Hope this info is useful in narrowing down the problem—I'm having a wonderful
time learning and using 3ds, but it's a little tricky working around the
unavailability of background images.
Thanks for helping out! 🙂
Elizabeth
You have me stumped. I / we have to determine what is going on during the
"Rendering in Progress". Research time – and thanks for your excellent work at
getting all this info.
Nik,
Thanks for all your time working with this problem–I hope it doesn't keep us
stumped for long.
I'll be going off-line for about a week or so (end of Feb-beginning of March),
as I'll be moving from DC to Colorado. When I set up again, I'll go over my
system carefully to see if I can find any strangenesses, and I'll probably
reinstall 3ds just to double check for any problems there. As far as I know, I
don't have any system conflicts (I try to keep a hawk's eye on that sort of
thing), and I haven't had any problems with any other software on my system,
but you never know with some PCs.
Drop me a note when you come up with an idea you want me to try. And, in spite
of the problem, I'm still having a great time learning what I can do in 3ds,
and I regret having to pause for 2 weeks to move. You can still do lots of neat
stuff without background bitmaps!
Thanks again,
Elizabeth
It's worth reinstalling 3D Studio (you had suggested you might try that) –
since there have been a couple of times people have had symptoms that were able
to go away with a reinstall.
Thanks again for your patience – good luck. I'll keep researching it.
I'll let you know in a week or so (after I move) how the reinstallation
goes—I'll be keeping my fingers crossed <g>.
Thanks again for everything!