#Just Checking…
69 messages in this thread
Testing, Testing. This is a Test. Is there live out there in Conference
10?? Just Checking. Test Out.
Hi, Tom. Some of us are reading this all the time – if there is anything
to read.
……Betty
Life is:
1) A cereal
2) A Game
3) A magazine
4) Lurking somewhere around Section 10
The answer could amaze you!
Well, from the volume of messages here, it seems that the developers
are coming out of the woodwork
{he said sarcastically 😉 }
Well, since we're all s'posta be developers, what is everyone out the
developing. . .and why? Please type your answers, essays should be 3-5
pages, double spaced, and be sure to compare and contrast. Compare and
contrast anything. It doesn't really matter. Oh, and don't forget the
introduction. For some reason it's important.
We now return you your previously scheduled life, already in progress. .
.
R. G. Marquez \|//
_oo // ECHiDNA
Right! What's supposed to be happening in section 10?
Whatever _you_ want to happen. This section is a place for developers to
use without fear of violating NDAs. It is a totally restricted section.
Only registered developers have access and registered status is confirmed
with CATS before access is given.
Obviously, if this section is not used it will be put to better use.
Sounds good. I wasn't quite sure when it had "opened ", and whether there
were special events planned. So the general public cannot read these
messages, right? Is there a list of the PPNs who have been validated for
this section, so we can know where to throw the mud pies, if we so desire?
More seriously, I'd like to know who could be listening, if this a
restricted section. Will CBM have a presence here?
I don't have a list handy of who has access — maybe folks should leave a
msg introducing themselves. There are several waiting verification from
CBM.
At this time, there will not be an official CBM presense. That may change
in the near future.
-sja
I guess I should say who I am also. . .
Name : Greg Marquez aka R. G. Marquez aka Cheshire Dragon aka
God knows what else. . .
Company : ECHiDNA, quite frankly the best little monotreme money
can buy. OK, so that's not really our company slogan.
How about "ECHiDNA : We lay eggs."? Hmm, for some
reason I think that might not be a good idea. . .
Product : Computer Entertainment Products. Well, OK, we write
games. . .is that so horible?
Employees : * Me, recent graduate of UCLA, programmer of
MyPaint/Amiga, looking for a 68040 upgrade for our
A500 for under $25 (including 32bit RAM, of course).
* Gregg Tavares, of C64 Gunship and Amiga Lords of
the Rising Sun fame (+ Amiga Street Sports Basketball,
but we'll let that one slide).
* Juan Alvarado, also recent UCLA graduate, finding
out how hard it is to juggle programming and a
girlfriend.
* Ron Nakada, recent UCSD graduate. . .farming out
work to him so's he can stop working at Disneyland
(oh, the life of a food service worker. . .).
* and on the drums, Dan "The Man" Chang, who in his
normal guise as Mild Mannered Virgin-MasterTronics-Arcadia
employee, regularly
leaps tall lunch breaks at a single bound.
Work In Progress :
Future Classics Collection for LIVE studios (see New
Products in AmigaWhirl), MyPaint 2.0, and a Map
Editor for Virgin-Mastertronics (Real Soon Now,
guys, PROMISE!!)
I get carried away editing off line. . .
R. G. Marquez \|//
_oo // ECHiDNA
Hmm… Virgin-Mastertronics… (looking toward Metadigm) Hey, Vic! Maybe I
should try getting a job with _these_ guys? <grin> –Eet–
Hey, Eet,
That might not be a bad idea. . .I hear they plan
to <WARNING : THIS SECTION HAS BEEN REMOVED BY THE
NON-DISCLOSURE POLICE. . .DO NOT ATTEMPT TO RECONSTRUCT. . .
WARNING : THIS SECTION HAS BEEN REMOVED BY THE NON-DISCLOSURE
POLICE. . .DO NOT ATTEMPT TO RECONSTRUCT. . .> and should
be quite spectacular. But you didn't hear it from me. . .
R. G. Marquez \|//
_oo // ECHiDNA
Because every electronic village needs its own idiot.
Electronic idiot? <grin> What _will_ they think of next? 🙂 –Eet–
Well, you claim to be qualified <rotfl>
Victor A. Wagner, Jr.
Name: Tom Lewis
Occupation: Avionics Technician come programmer in spare (HA!) time.
Company: The Great Canadian Software Development Company (Put THAT on you
business card. No, on second thought, you better not.)
Programming Interests: Educational Software. (But there's no MONEY in
that!)
Present Project: I'm not saying. (Though my wife wishes it would I would
finish it.)
Pet Project: The reintroduction of Trumpeter Swans to Elk Island National
Park. (No money in that either, nor computers. I do it because I can.)
<making a spectacular small, furry, alien bow> Oke-doke… For those few
there that don't Conference here in 'tech (insert reproachful look here), I
am Eet. I am also…
Extra Terrestrial Imports, Ltd (be sure to go into 'deep echo' mode when
reading that :).
Anything else you wanna know? Jus' ask, I love to talk <grin> –Eet-
Okay, everyone knows I'm a user! So, I just ordered 1.4 yesterday (yes,
folks, I'm "only" certified <grin>), what can I look foreward too? I hear
'embossed' is "in", and steve likes workbench enough he says he's gonna use
it (shocking, I know). –Eet–
John,
We are supposed to be having marvelous discussions of all sorts of secrets
that only developers know about. Got anything to discuss?
……Betty
Y'know what I think? I think everybody's got 'lip-lock' cause of all the
non-disclosures that've been flying around…
Betty, didja ever find the problem you had with the guru 81000009.265F48F1?
I was on voice with Vic last night, and he told me that the number to the
right was _not_ the program's Task Control Block, since it was such a
ridiculously big number…
I found out where my 81000009.265F48F1 guru is coming from, I just don't
(yet) know what's causing it. You're not running that 1.4 you said you had,
are you? –Eet–
Eet, no, this was happening with 1.3. I still get the 81000009 gurus, but
now at a different place, or whatever. Remember the Amiga's guru that
spells out HELP in the part to the right of the decimal? I wondered if
this might be some kind of message of that sort, but have not tried to
search it out yet. It sure doesn't look like ASCII. Strange, tho, that you
would be getting the same guru with your program. Strange.
……Betty
Well, I _think_ I found the cause. It seems I'm only freeing 1 plane of the
several planes I allocated. For some reason, the system doesn't pick up on
it til exit(). –Eet–
Hmmmm…..now, if only I could find mine! But I didn't write any of the
things I'm using.
……Betty
Greg:
Actually, those are termites. You can't get true developers away from their
machines long enough to find the woodwork. <grin>
Introduction: We are Virtual Reality Laboratories, Inc.
Page 2-5: We are developing <censored> for the <censored>. Being under
non-discloser sure limits the available adjectives. <grin>
Actually we publish Distant Suns, and are about to come out with a second
product that is a fractal landscape generator. Eet, (the extra-terrestrial)
is working on a game for us.
Now that I have bared all (without really saying anything) it's someone
elses turn.
Clint <VRLI>
Clint,
Having seen Distant Suns, let me say that it is a great product! Maybe
Eet would have his game finished faster if you bought him a Lattice C
compiler. 🙂 🙂
Seriously, though. What would your reaction be (everyone reading this)
if the next release of Lattice C required 1.4 to run. What would your
reaction be if the Lattice libraries need the 1.4 OS? And finally, what if
we provided two library versions, one requiring 1.4 and the other working
with older systems but not having all the features of the 1.4 version?
— Mike Roth
Mike:
My own reaction is that we will be developing under 1.4 as soon as it is
stable enough. We need our software to be able to run under 1.3 for a while
yet, but probably won't worry about 1.1 or 1.2 compatability any more. C=
offers upgrades cheaply enough that all users should be able to upgrade. We
will maintain 1.3 compatability as around 22% of our customers still use
1000's and won't be able to use 1.4.
To be completely honest, I wish I could get Eet and Mike Smithwick to use
Lattice, but both are rabid Aztec users. I used Lattice when I was working
for Metadigm, but need to get my own copy now that I'm on my own, assuming
that I can find some time to program. Running a business is a lot more work
than I had planned, and little time is left over for coding.
Clint <VRLI>
Clint, I'm not _rabid_ about anything (except Japanese stuff (inside joke,
nudge, nudge) <grin>). I use Manx cause A) there were more graphic examples
in it when I first got Manx (IMAO, of course), Keith was using it, and C)
I've been given no reason to switch. I like the way Manx works, I'm used to
it, and, I like having access to beta versions of stuff. 🙂
–Eet–
Good God Eet! What a horrible reason to use a compiler! Just because
Keith does something does NOT make it correct, as we've often found out
around here. ;^) Having access to Beta releases is fine, as long as Manx
is paying you to help them debug. Otherwise it's just a waste of
development time.
By the way, did you know that 99.98% of messages here in the Developers
section were authored by you? 🙂
Ariel
Well, when I _got_ the compiler, Keith was helping me with C via some
example code. So far, I haven't found a bug (I'm lookin' tho :), and that's
something. I still don't get why those that prefer Lattice _dis_like Manx
so vocally.
I didn't know that 99.98% were authored by me (what happened to the other
2%? <grin>), but, _somebody_ had to start messaging the message base…
steve was starting to make suggestions for better uses 🙂
–Eet–
Well, I must have missed the official charter for this section. All I
remember was the "flash" that Steve left saying that a Developer section
was being formed. Whatever sanction this has from CBM (if any) was never
mentioned, so it's kind of a public secret that this section exists. I'm
pretty sure it's unknown outside of the people who already hang out in
Amigatech. Maybe an announcement in Online Today (Compuserve Magazine?)
would help bring more faces in here. Certainly the appeal of the HUGELY
better CIS interface (relative to B*x) would draw some folks.
Gee, Eet, I'm not a vocal Manx hater. In fact, I have probably more code
written for IVIS under Manx than under Lattice. I'm using it right now for
a project. After using both I just prefer Lattice, and was just pulling
your leg about using it cause Keith does. :^) IMHO the Lattice package is
more advanced and flexible, plus they have offered better support (although
Mike Spille's appearance here has altered the balance somewhat). Compiler
(like editor) preferences typically bring out all the religeous fanatics.
I am not one of those. Instead, I am one of those people who just *LOVES*
to pick on religious fanatics. ;^)
Considering the amount of traffic over on B*x with regards to 1.4's
shortcomings, I'm surprised that there isn't a healthy outpouring of flames
over here too.
Ariel @IVIS
Any shortcomings of 1.4 is really beside the point. There is nothing that
can be done about it — those shortcomings should have been addressed in
the planning and alpha stages. Now we've gotta take what's there and get
the bugs out.
Well, as I've said repeatedly, I don't have it… yet. Ordered it about
mid-week last week, so I'm hoping to have it rsn. Til then, I'll have to
listen more than talk, I guess (impozzible for me 🙂 –Eet–
Ari,
I guess we'll all have to work our poor fingers/keyboars to the bone.
We _can't_ have THAT statistic remain true.
Victor A. Wagner, Jr.
Eet:
And it drives Mike Roth banana's to know that you are using it. <grin>
Clint <VRLI>
Forgot that reason! <grin> I love it… 🙂 –Eet–
MikeIn response to your request about new Lattice Compiler- The following
are the sole thoughts of Tom, and don't reflect those of his employer.
(However, He is partly selfemployed.) It is CBM's well known position that
any new software should run on any Amiga. This doesn't work in reality
however, since the 1.3 printer stuff and FFS definitely wouldn't work with
1.2. However, most people have upgraded the DOS with each new release. It
appears that this wouldn't necessarily happen with 1.4. I suppose that the
best all round solution would be two library versions. That would allow the
development of nifty 1.4 stuff, but not force users to upgrade if they
don't require the 1.4 advantage. Max Flex.
Mike,
I probably don't do enough compiling to speak up here, but since I already
have the compiler versions that work with 1.3 and earlier, it would suit me
just fine if the next one required 1.4. Seems to me that anyone who is
doing very much programming would need to be working with the current
version of the OS, and I gather that you are pretty sure 1.4 will be the
current version before the next Lattice comes out.
……Betty
Mike,
I really depends on who Lattice sees as their target audience. Any
serious developer will be running under 1.4. However, if the next version
of Lattice requires 1.4 you're going to lock out a lot of A1000 owners who
don't want to upgrade or will not buy the Rejuvinator. I'd think you'd
want to go with 2 library versions, at least for the first year that 1.4 is
available.
-sja
Um…. Um…. no problem with needing th OS to compile, and no problem with
the lib routines needing the OS to operate… as long as this is clearly
indicated… IE, If I want to link with old stuff, I can use old libs, or
my own. Make sure you provide a c.o and a cback etc that will work with the
older system… so far, it looks like 1.4 is a huge program breaker, much
more than they led us to believe over on BIX, the Mac and IBM Amiga
Molesters Network.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben,
I haven't had _too_ much trouble with programs breaking under 1.4B2 (and
I do run it about 75% of the time). What I've noticed is that programs
that (incorrectly) get the interlace/overscan resolution from gbxbase break
quite easily. Those that get it from prefs do not.
-sja
Steve… I notice a LOT of programs that get their prop gadgets mucked
about with; I also see crashes doing nothing but opening and closing
windows (disk). There may be a problem with reading 1.3 disks, but if so,
it's busted, IMHO.
Serial programs seem to have a lot of trouble, too.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Mike,
Once 1.4 was stable enough, I would prolly be [trying
to] run everything under it. . .no prolum there. . .
I would vote for the two library solution. . .
R. G. Marquez \|//
_OO // (caffinated) ECHiDNA
Mike,
I think the safest thing is to have two library versions. If you
require 1.4 a lot of people will be really ticked off about it. Most
developers will move to 1.4 (or have already via beta), but the
non-developer folks who have compilers may not upgrade to 1.4 right away,
and requiring 1.4 would leave them in the dust.
Having a library version without all the 1.4 features sure will give
them a good reason to upgrade. 🙂
Steve
Mike,
I would vote for the two library version. Trying to develop and maintain
source code for two different compiler versions is too dificult and time
consuming. Would having an '#ifdef WB1.4' for source code and/or possibly
an environment variable for the compiler to check be too difficult?
I believe that 1.3 (and 1.2) will be around for quite a while yet, since
many people who purchase the games and other bread-and-butter software for
developers will not be necessarily be upgrading their machines to 1.4.
David
Only (ONLY) if the current version were still purchasable. I'd hate to
force people to switch to 1.4 before they're ready, or choose to switch
compilers. Heck, if you guys were nice like Manx, I might be using your
compiler <grin>. (reminds me, gotta tell Mike Spille that the guru wasn't a
compiler bug). –Eet–
Gee, Eet! I offer you a place to stay for AmiExpo Chicago and you say I'm
not "nice like Manx"! So just what have they done for you??? 🙂 I've just
been speculating about 1.4 requirements. I still have to discuss this
stuff with upper management. Just wanted some insight as to what our
customers think.
— Mike Roth
Gee, Mike, you _aren't_ Lattice, are you?? <smile> As for 1.4 requirements,
I can answer that better once I have 1.4b… I hope 🙂
–Eet–
Hmmn, from my personal point of view, since I'll be using 1.4 anyway, it
doesn't matter much to me if you require it to run Lattice, or to use the
Libraries. However, practically, you should either have two libraries or
minimize and document the functions which wouldn't work with 1.3 and
earlier…
(I could speculate on why a CLI based product with a wholly command line
interface could possibly *need* features of 1.4 to run, but I think I'll
save that for some other time… 🙂
–>Steve Bennett
Speaking of CLI based products, has anything been changed with AUX: in 1.4?
Would it be possible to have more than one AUX:, having each attached to a
different serial port? (thinking of Larry's ARBBS, actually).
–Eet–
Steve,
You should check out some of the new dos.library functions, among
others. The ability to truncate files and to get a file lock from an
AmigaDOS file handle are just two good reasons to require 1.4.
— Mike Roth
Mike,
It could be awkward if you did that (what could you _possibly_ be using
in 1.4 that doesn't exist in 1.3 for a compiler?). You would be forcing
all developers to switch to 1.4 as soon as your compiler is ready (I'm all
for encouraging people to update, but developers are a stubborn lot and may
resist).
Victor A. Wagner, Jr.
Vic,
The really big issues would be with the integrated environment and not
the compiler itself. The real issue is the libraries, since the developer
may not want to force his customers to use 1.4.
— Mike Roth
Clint,
I don't know about that, you prolly could lure
quite a few out with Pizza ™, the programmer's
brainphude. . . 😉
r. g. mARQUEZ \|//
_– // (sleeping) ECHiDNA
Greg,
Around here it's Pizza and Dr. Pepper. They have saved many a late night.
Clint <VRLI>
I ask myself again… WHY won't Macdonalds deliver at 3 am?? <grin>
–Eet–
And I ask myself. . .why isn't ANYTHING in So. OC open
at 3 am ?? 🙁 Don't people here ever slip into
Vampire Mode ™? Sheesh. . . 😉
R. G. Marquez \|//
_xx // (dead ECHiDNAs aren't much fun. . .)
I dunno… I think pizzas are programmer's food cause that's the only thing
you can have delivered so you don't have to leave in the middle of what
you're doing (never seems to be a 'convenient' break, does there? :), plus
have delivered in the middle of the night… but, sometimes, I just get
these awful big-mac-attacks at 3am <sigh> –Eet–
Greg,
You must live in the wrong part of OC. Hmmmmm, you say Southern Orange
County?? You must be right around the corner. Where are you?
Victor A. Wagner, Jr.
Eek! you TOLD! Gee, now everybody will think I'm just a game programmer..
When in fact I'm a 'Video Gamewright' (well, sounds cool -er to me <grin>).
–Eet–
Eet:
Since you are merely a figment of my overactive imagination, you can call
yourself anything you'd like. <grin>
Clint <VRLI>
Fig mint? why not a Fig Newton??? Gee, and here I thought I was merely a
deranged nightmare from a drug-induced state of near catatonia.
<grin> –Eet–
Greg,
I'm working on the next release of the Lattice C compiler, and on a
Bulletin Board System in my copious spare time. 🙂
— Mike Roth
Sorry, I'm under another non-disclosure, so, I can't say (Hey, Clint, did I
do good? I didn't say nuthin about degam….oops <grin>)…
ECHiDNA… hasn't I seen you on some rather large, ponderous BBS system?
<grin> –Eet–
Hmmm, Large, Ponderous BBSs. . .
Well Gregg Tavares is active on BIX and the JCD's forum
on GEnie. . .
And I /usta be on rUSENET when I had access to a VAX. . .
R. G. Marquez \|//
_oo // ECHiDNA
Yup, it was Greg Tavares, I recall now. But, at least you know what I
meant, that's something, anyway <grin> –Eet–
All of the above?
……Betty
Betty:
And I forgot, in addition to the board game, the computer game of Life. 🙂
Clint <VRLI>
5) none of the above. I choose number 6. <grin> Hey, Clint, say something
non-disclosed! <grin again> –Eet–
Eet:
Something non-disclosed? OK, you are not really from the 5th planet from
Sirius, you are from the second planet from Betelguese. (Oops, there goes
the neighborhood.) <grin>
Clint <VRLI>
Ha! That's what you think… I'm not from near Betelguese, either! (anybody
wanna buy some Sirian Panther Sweat, btw? I've a rather large shipment just
sitting on the dock, costing me money…) –Eet–
No. <grin>