CompuServe Archive

This is an archive of CompuServe forum messages from 1985 to 1995, as saved in transcripts by John Foust.

Search Results (76 messages)

#13378 Benguiat & good type Message #13412
From: barry n sher Adobe Forum · Videophile October 7, 1989 8:10 PM
I'm a print media consultant. You might say that I'm the David Garth of print. Most recent campaign was a council race (primary) in NYC in September. I concentrate on my clients' communications (i.e., what they should say, who they should say it to, how they should say it), rather…
#13366 goodtype Message #13411
From: Tripp Narup Adobe Forum · Videophile October 7, 1989 8:06 PM
I love your definition of good type. BTW, our favorite phrase around the shop these days is: "We're just whores for typography!"
From: Mitch Alland Adobe Forum · Videophile October 6, 1989 8:09 PM
After using Font Harmony, which comes with Suitcase II, the Helvetica type does not show up on the font menu of either Cricket Graph or Kaleida Graph. Is there a solution? Also, a Director Movie that I made on my office machine uses different type (Geneva instead of Helvetica) when…
#13366 goodtype Message #13380
From: Kathleen Tinkel Adobe Forum · Videophile October 6, 1989 6:23 PM
That's a wonderful story. I'm not positive your working definition of 'good type' will withstand all challenges, but it is in the cards for working definitions to take a little buffeting. I, too, learned to set type on IBM systems (I don't count several stints on 1940s/50s vintage Varitypers). The…
#13370 Benguiat & good type Message #13378
From: Kathleen Tinkel Adobe Forum · Videophile October 6, 1989 6:23 PM
What sort of political consulting do you do? I do a fair amount of political work, myself. I'm working on a first selectman's campaign right now, in fact. There's nothing more exciting. (And I won't ask why 'Nostradamus,' intriguing though the question, hovering just before my lips, may be.)
From: barry n sher Adobe Forum · Videophile October 6, 1989 2:52 PM
Yes, I'm a designer. My company is called Nostradamus Advertising (it's a long story…). In addition to straight design, we do some political consulting, marketing consulting, and the like.
#goodtype Message #13366
From: J.Sherman/Sherman's Army Adobe Forum · Videophile October 6, 1989 12:32 PM
Greetings from Mars. The software support is a little thin here, just like the atmosphere…[Who's a lurker?] Let the treaty talks begin. I learned to "set" type on the old IBM MT/ST machines…and eventually came back to the Intergraphics' remote Linotron 202's, which I found all sorts of ways to…
#13347 ATM -vs- System 7 Message #13361
From: Steve Werner Adobe Forum · Videophile October 6, 1989 11:02 AM
Blaise, With 740K free on your RIP's hard disk, you didn't have much room for anything. You'll probably be able to image larger pages as well because the hard disk is also used to spool strips of the page for complex images. ^Steve^
#13282 #ATM -vs- System 7 Message #13347
From: Blaise Pabon Adobe Forum · Videophile October 5, 1989 10:00 PM
You know, Steve, the Lino I was working with had 740K free on the disk. bad scene, no wonder we couldn't print more than three fonts. Blaise
From: Kathleen Tinkel Adobe Forum · Videophile October 5, 1989 8:54 PM
Thanks. Are you a designer? I remember that you work on a PC, but don't know if I ever knew what you do.
NFNT Font problem Message #13336
From: Lori Haines Adobe Forum · Videophile October 5, 1989 5:59 PM
Steve – I am not sure that I follow your question. Are you actually having a problem printing out the fonts that you have in you system, or were you just _told_ that you would have a problem? What application are you using? There should not be any impact on…
#13288 quality type Message #13308
From: Tripp Narup Adobe Forum · Videophile October 4, 1989 10:45 PM
After doing ad work for years, if there's anything "scientific" about the way agencies approach things I must have missed it. My friends who work for agencies are not so kind in their assessment. I have heard of the book you mentioned before and it comes highly recommended.
#13256 NFNT Font Emergency! Message #13305
From: Kathleen Tinkel Adobe Forum · Videophile October 4, 1989 9:39 PM
What application are you using?
From: barry n sher Adobe Forum · Videophile October 4, 1989 8:50 PM
I enjoy dialogue with someone who cares about precision and about esthetics yet is not unhappy about living in the real world…
From: Kathleen Tinkel Adobe Forum · Videophile October 4, 1989 7:37 PM
Thanks. I wouldn't ask anyone to 'always' agree with me — I don't always agree with myself. And I suppose you're right about coming to an agreement on terms. On the other hand, you can usually arrive at a working definition if you care enough.
#13236 #quality type Message #13288
From: barry n sher Adobe Forum · Videophile October 4, 1989 12:49 PM
For starters, you might look at "Scientific Advertising" by the late Claude C. Hopkins.
#13267 #ATM -vs- System 7 Message #13282
From: Steve Werner Adobe Forum · Videophile October 4, 1989 9:44 AM
Blaise, Adobe Type Manager is a startup application (INIT) and cdev. It is copied into the System Folder, and is controlled in the Control Panel. It modifies the system to intercept font calls made by applications. When it does this, it first looks to see if there is an existing…
#13254 quality type/art Message #13272
From: Tripp Narup Adobe Forum · Videophile October 3, 1989 11:46 PM
Your comments reminded me of an old newspaper publisher I used to know. He owned the most successful small daily in Minnesota (their readership surveys came out over 100%; an interesting exercise in survey samplings…). His favorite line was: "They may not know *why* it looks good, but they know…
#13242 ATM -vs- System 7 Message #13268
From: Blaise Pabon Adobe Forum · Videophile October 3, 1989 10:01 PM
Earl, What's metamorphosis? (I'm really starting to feel like the loser at a frat party… Are we having fun yet?) Blaise
#13231 #ATM -vs- System 7 Message #13267
From: Blaise Pabon Adobe Forum · Videophile October 3, 1989 9:59 PM
Uh, I don't know how to ask such a simple question, but: Isn't ATM for screen fonts? I mean I thought it was some kind of quickdraw application to make screen fonts look more like their final (ps) printouts. Is there some description of ATM with more detail than the…
From: Steve Theodore Adobe Forum · Videophile October 3, 1989 4:59 PM
Last week I installed a set of Adobe NFNT Screen fonts from out local service bureau on the Mac at work using SUITCASE II. Now I have been told that the printer won't download fonts and consequently only the NTX's resident fonts will print — even though the other screen…
#quality type/art Message #13254
From: Michael Diehl Adobe Forum · Videophile October 3, 1989 3:28 PM
Here Here! (Hear Hear! ?) I'm so pleased to see messages from "typophiles" out there on the grid. Having spent some time in advertising myself, I do believe that, on a certain level of subconsciousness, people to "recognize" quality type (and quality photography, design, etc). More certainly, people in the…
#13239 Font Types Message #13247
From: Steve Werner Adobe Forum · Videophile October 3, 1989 11:27 AM
Michael, In PostScript, the information in a font (character shape, bounding box, etc.) is stored as a "dictionary," and certain entries in the dictionary are required. Among them is an entry called "FontType," which consists of an integer indicating the font format. Adobe uses a special encrypted format for storing…
#13242 ATM -vs- System 7 Message #13246
From: Steve Werner Adobe Forum · Videophile October 3, 1989 11:26 AM
Earl, Quite rightly, too. Your company produces superb font tools! ^Steve^
#13239 Font Types Message #13243
From: Nathan Dickson Adobe Forum · Videophile October 3, 1989 9:47 AM
Type 1 fonts are fonts that are encrypted (secret code) and use Adobe's proprietary hinting technology for low resolution display. Type 1 fonts decode the font information using the 'eexec' operator (documentation to which should be released within a few months). Type 3 fonts are fonts created by anybody else…
#13231 #ATM -vs- System 7 Message #13242
From: Earl Allen/ALTSYS Adobe Forum · Videophile October 3, 1989 7:59 AM
Yes, and all those vendors who are presently vending type III will likely be using either Metamorphosis or Fontographer to do the conversion to type I. Earl
#Font Types Message #13239
From: Michael Diehl Adobe Forum · Videophile October 3, 1989 1:15 AM
Would someone please tell me what defines font types in the Adobe/PostScript world? I.e., Type 1 fonts, type 3 fonts, etc. Just curious. Thank you.
#13209 #quality type Message #13236
From: Tripp Narup Adobe Forum · Videophile October 2, 1989 9:34 PM
RE "proof" of the effect of quality type: you haven't seen any nor *will* you. Advertising is not that scientific. I could quote readership studies 'til I'm blue in the face concerning layout, typeface, retention rates etc ad nauseum. They're *all* meaningless. The bottom line is the marketplace decides. In…
#13200 quality type Message #13235
From: Tripp Narup Adobe Forum · Videophile October 2, 1989 9:34 PM
I'm afraid your position is rather unclear to me. In your note to Jon you mentioned specifically TNT, neg lead etc. in a disparaging fashion. Now you say they're just dandy. Amen, indeed.
#13227 #ATM -vs- System 7 Message #13231
From: Steve Werner Adobe Forum · Videophile October 2, 1989 7:27 PM
Earl, Adobe's ATM will work with any PostScript true Type I fonts. Currently that includes those of Adobe and its licensees, Agfa Compugraphic, Varityper, Monotype, etc. Since Adobe is opening up its Type I specs by the first of the year, undoubtedly all the vendors who are concerned about quality…
From: barry n sher Adobe Forum · Videophile October 2, 1989 4:58 PM
Defining "good typography" will be harder than you anticipate. First you'll have to define "good". We spent a good part of Freshman year in college just working on the idea of "good". It's not that I always agree with you, but you didn't deserve some of the shots you were…
#13223 Encoding fonts Message #13229
From: barry n sher Adobe Forum · Videophile October 2, 1989 4:54 PM
Every time I think I know something, WHAM! Regarding the IBM line drawing characters, I was relying on the technical information in Adobe's FONT & FUNCTION. If, however, I had read the very *next* sentence, I would have seen: "Letter Gothic, Prestige Elite and Orator contain the IBM line drawing…
#13213 Benguiat & good type Message #13228
From: barry n sher Adobe Forum · Videophile October 2, 1989 4:50 PM
Thanks! 🙂
#13214 #ATM -vs- System 7 Message #13227
From: Earl Allen/ALTSYS Adobe Forum · Videophile October 2, 1989 4:50 PM
I had the opposite reaction; I think that System 7, along with some other developments, will help a great deal. I have more faith in the conversion process from PostScript to Royal. There is no reason that the Royal versions couldn't have precisely the same widths, etc., as the PostScript…
From: Kathleen Tinkel Adobe Forum · Videophile October 2, 1989 2:56 PM
Thanks. I'd like to see 'good typography' defined some way that doesn't equate it with 'display typography,' 'ad typography,' (or, for that matter, with 'book typography'). Before we get caught up in another of these discussions maybe we should attempt to define good typography, by locating its extreme boundaries and…
#13207 #Encoding fonts Message #13223
From: Steve Werner Adobe Forum · Videophile October 2, 1989 10:02 AM
Barry, Actually the IBM line drawing characters (as well as the "happy face"!) are present in a few Adobe fonts, but they are not in the standard encoding. In Letter Gothic (and, I believe, Prestige Elite and Orator), there are almost all of the IBM extended character set. If you…
#13173 Benguiat & good type Message #13219
From: Eric Taub Adobe Forum · Videophile October 2, 1989 8:36 AM
I understand your feelings. On the other hand, whenever I send stuff to a service bureau, I always make sure that I include a suitcase with the appropriate font stuff in it, either with the job, or on file with them somewhere. You have to admit there's something to be…
#13157 Encoding fonts Message #13218
From: frank betts Adobe Forum · Videophile October 2, 1989 6:26 AM
Hi Quinn, I just uploaded a file to lib 3 called SCRN11.ARC which contains two IBM extended character sets. One is a bitmapped font just like the IBM EGA screen font and the other is derived from Courier (it needed to be monospaced like the screen). Both have all of…
#13180 #ATM -vs- System 7 Message #13214
From: Scott R. Leyes Adobe Forum · Videophile October 1, 1989 9:14 PM
"$300 is NOT cheap if you've already purchased the fonts when you bought your laserwriter." Well, Look at it this way: The "Plus Pack" fonts, if purchased separately, would run $885 (retail). Yes, the very same fonts are built into the ROM of your PostScript LaserWriter, but you did not…
From: Bill Pulver Adobe Forum · Videophile October 1, 1989 9:12 PM
What you describe, Barry, doesn't sound so much like FEAR as it does common sense and professional pride. –Bill
From: Bill James Adobe Forum · Videophile October 1, 1989 6:52 PM
Rich, Gotcha. The updater for FontHarmony is in Library 11 of Apple Vendor Fourm B (GO APVENA). I just downloaded it, and it did the tricks. Thanks, Bill
From: barry n sher Adobe Forum · Videophile October 1, 1989 6:00 PM
Let me be the first to stick up for you and say… Thanks for cutting through the bullslip! I think some of the latest typographic fancies look GREAT. But that's just my own taste, and it may or may not be in the best interest of my client. Every honest…
#quality type Message #13209
From: barry n sher Adobe Forum · Videophile October 1, 1989 5:48 PM
Quality type may be part of a quality image. And, in that fashion, it may even boost sales. But I have seen no proof that it improves readability, legibility, recall, recognition or readership.
#13153 AFM Files Message #13208
From: barry n sher Adobe Forum · Videophile October 1, 1989 5:45 PM
The popular Micrografx WIndows PostScript driver can translate an AFM to its own native WFM metrics file format. Ventura can translate an AFM to an intermediate VFM file and then to its native .WID table format. WIndows apps using the standard (Aldus?) PostScript driver get their character widths and kerning…
#13157 #Encoding fonts Message #13207
From: barry n sher Adobe Forum · Videophile October 1, 1989 5:38 PM
1. Once you've created a PS file, it's platform-independent. So you could post your message in a forum or section appropriate to the originating app. 2. As for you AFM question, it porbably has to do with different encoding schemes. The "Real World PostScript" book has some interesting information about…
#quality type Message #13200
From: Kathleen Tinkel Adobe Forum · Videophile October 1, 1989 12:13 PM
I wouldn't presume to label anyone a sinner. Why do we have to disagree? I didn't say I liked loose and sloppy type. I use negative leading all the time. We couldn't live without kerning, and I frequently mention that Adobe fonts, among others (but they're the market leader, after…
From: barry n sher Adobe Forum · Videophile October 1, 1989 11:17 AM
Just FEAR, Bill. Fear of missing a deadline. Fear of looking like a jerk. Fear of sending in a big expensive linotronic job and having it come out wrong. So I test test test!
ATM Message #13192
From: Stephen H. Owades Adobe Forum · Videophile October 1, 1989 12:44 AM
For what it's worth, your (sp?) query was well founded. The word you are looking for it "bated," which is related to "abate" and refers to holding back. It's not "baited," as in a trap!
ATM -vs- System 7 Message #13181
From: Paul J. Chernoff Adobe Forum · Videophile September 30, 1989 2:37 PM
I agree no that the specs are out for Type 1 fonts ATM makes more sense than before.
#ATM -vs- System 7 Message #13180
From: Jeffrey Kane Adobe Forum · Videophile September 30, 1989 11:06 AM
$300 is NOT cheap if you've already purchased the fonts when you bought your laserwriter. To pay $300 for the privalege of seeing them on screen is VERY steep. I'll wait for system 7.0

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