#3DS3 to UVW 1800 ?sp?
29 messages in this thread
HELP !! I have a new UVW 1800 beta cam sp? when I output from 3DS3 through my
targa+64 I get lots of noise in the form of thin gray lines over the image but
I have found that it is mostly the background that are noise 8 [ [Aey if on the
other hand if i make a box that covers the whole view asine a color to it and
then render it then put it out to tape no flashing occures when playing back
the tape these images all look good befor thay go to tape and great on the RGB
monitor the 1800 seems to have twice as much noise as the pvw 2800 I think
twice the noise voltage = 6 db is this correct??? is help on the way
????????????????????????????
Hi, Ben,
How do you feed Targa 64 RGB to UVW-1800 Component? You should have some
transcoder for this. Circuitly, PVW-2800 and UVW-1800 have same one. No reason
to be 6 dB difference exists.
Thanks,
Koy Sampei
Product Manager /CRVdisc
Sony Electronics, Inc.
Koichi, The Targa 64+ has RGB, Composite and SVHS output. FYI
-JE
Hi Koy thanks for your reply I have been using the s-video from the targa into
the UVW-1800 but because of the noise I thought I should go to componet so I
sold my monitor and bought a new PVM 1954q and order a new componet targa board
the board (truevista pro ) has not come in yet when it dose the system will be
all componet this week-end I am going to take my computer to a PVW 2800 and see
what difference it makes but I have compared the two decks and in this case I
see twice as much noise in the UVW as the PVW so twices the voltage = 6db I
sent the UVW back for repair and asked them to check the signal to noise ratio
when recoreding nad allso in EtoE they sent it back and the service tech. said
That yes it was noisey but it met specs and was beter than s-vhs 4 [Dbetter
than s-vhs Well I hope so it cost twice as much
OK Koy I have a lot to say about the design of the 1800 but this is enough for
how Ben Barron
Ben,
You can pick-up a descent RGB->BetaCAM transcoder for under $700. We use one
converting out Matrox IllPro RGB to BetaCAM into the UVW-1800 and it works
great!
Ang
Thanks Any Yes I could get a TRANSCOADER I would nead two the prices I have
would be about $1800 that is if I wanted to go in and out of the targa. I
desided to spend $2900 and get the new componet targa board whitch has higher
res. I haft back off in the noise line a bit because we took my computer targa
and all over to the PVW 2800 and still had noise we got the noise to go away by
removing a cable to the targa genlock and everthing worked fine ????????? I
have no explation for this it should not work at all. The peple with the 2800
spent quite a lot of time helping me so I left my computer with them for a few
days go thay could play with 3DS3 and the cd-rom and modem stuk thay don't have
and want to learn about. When I get my computer back I viger out what's goging
on I can see one neads a scope and I sind up for a corse I wf-vector it's not
till May 17 the video out of the targa had a notch in the back-porch and black
was at 0 not 7.5 so I will nead a componet scope there is a hamlet 301 whitch
is about 1800 street price but it seems nesery if one is to know what is going
on thanks again Any Ben Barron
I'm using a UVW-1800 here with a targa+ and PAR output and find no noise as you
described. Better check your connections especially at the D-shell plug at the
targa+. Also, I ran into something close to what you got some time back and
discovered that I wasn't excluding enough ram in the QEMM line. It wasn't
noise I was seeing but missing video.
You need to do the standard elimination routine and isolate the problem to some
major component.
Hi Don what do you mean PAR output ? I have the RGB from the targa+ going to
one moniter and the s-video from the targa going to the 1800 and the output of
the 1800 going to a a sony pwm 1954 the RGB picture is grate and if you run the
s-video from the targa direcly to the 1954 that picture is good too but if you
go through the 1800 even in EE there is noise way to mutch noise as i sead I
see a 2 to 1 diference in noise level from my 1800 to a frenda pvw 2800 this is
a 6 db diference if my math is OK ? the problen is not the noise level I dont
know what is wrong the 1800 can't be as bad as it looks Ben Barron 510-527-4830
ben,
The PAR is a JPEG real time playback board from Digital Processing Systems.
You render your TGA's and put them on a dedicated PAR harddrive inenhanced
JPEG format. Then you can play them real time, and so eliminating the need of
Frame by Frame.
Christophe
Thanks Christophe What cort of resulation do you get from your PAR card like
512×486 and 60 fieldsand how mutch comprestion from the mpeg I Think you might
nead two wide-fast scsi drives striped to bang out good video a SGI can do it
but I an stuck back in the backyard with a PC my son has a SGI and works with
100meg per fraim in film O yes the tapes from my uvw 1800 look better when I
play them on a BVW-70 there is somthing wrong with this setup and I cant figer
it out if you think you can help send me a phone no. and we san kalk if you
like BEN BARRON
Sounds like you better have your UVW-1800 checked out. You might have a
"lemon" Running video from a betacam BVW-507 camera output direct to the UVW I
can't tell the difference between live or tape. Neither can anybody else
around here. Maybe we all need glasses. <G>
DON I did send my 1800 back to sony I asked them to measher the S/N when
recording and in EE and to give me the numbers thay sent it back and sead ti
meets there specs. no data so I called thay sead yes its noisey but its beter
than s-vhs and what do you expect from a cheep unit ?? Well the uvw1800 caust
twise as mutch as s-vhs and it should be a lot better !!! I have heard heard a
lot of good about the 1800 from you and others but if I record a tape on my
1800 and then play it back in aBVW-70 it looks a lot better I have compared the
nois from my 1800 and a PVW-2800 If I know what I am doing and I well may not I
see a 6 db difference not the 2 db one finds in the spec. sheats from sony I am
going to try to send the deck msack to sony and get a 2800 thow $ are a problem
for me on the other hand I want things to work well .Don this is not the hole
story the 1800 cannot be as bad as I find it to be and there are two things
here one is the noise as seen on a wave form scope thats where I am geting the
6db number when conparing the 1800 to 2600 the other is nois thats coming from
the targa board when I render backgrounds in 3DS3 but not forgrounds ???? and
it is this noise which has caused mr to look so hard at the 1800 thes pictures
look good on the RGB moniter and good in s-viseo on 1954Q but if you put the
1800 in the line from targa to 1954 moniter (even with the deck in EE) there is
a lot noise on the moniter but only if you rendered a back ground in 3Ds3 if
you render only a forground then little or no noise well as you can see I don't
wright well but I hope I have given you all of the info. If thin you can help
and you wish you mighe send me a phone no, and we can discuse ihis further BEN
BARRON
What kind of transcoder are you using to get Targa+ output to the UVW 1800?
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
Hi John I am using 3DS3 with a targa64+ the RGB from the targa is going to a
tektronix 650HR monitor. The s-video from the targa is going to the 1800 and
then on into a sony pvm-1954q monitor . If you remove the 1800 you get a good
s-video picture on the on the sony monitor but if the 1800 is in the line just
siting there in EE there is a lot of noise on the picture if 3ds3 is outputing
a render background on the other hand if 3ds3 is puting out render forground
with no back-ground then the noise is gone
I sent the 1800 back to Sony to be check befor I discover all this stuf with
3ds3 as I thoughe the probleb was a bad 1800 thay say its OK meats there specs
I dont think so as I compared its noise to a pvw-2800 and I find the 1800 to be
about 6 db noiser than the 2800 ( I may not be measuring this right thow ) as
you can see the 1800 cant be the whole problem if its the problem at all I dont
know where to go with this so if you can help please do. also taps that look
very noise when recored and then played back on the 1800 look pretty good when
taken to a BVW-70 and played on it. Ben Barron
It sounds to me like there's a problem in your chain between the Targa+ and the
UVW. Anyway, you should have the RGB going through a transcoder and into the
UVW. What's the point of using Beta SP if you're feeding it Y-C? I would
start swapping out parts, one by one, untill the problem went away, because I
know a few people with UVW's and although the signal isn't quite as good as the
2800 or 75, it's still good, and shouldn't have any visible artifacting/noise
or whatever.
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
John,
could you care telling me what a transcoder really is, I paln on buying my
first animation setup with a second hand Targa+32 PAL, a second hand DQ422 and
a new UVW1800 PAL or PVW2800 PAL. I know I cannot connect the Targa RGBsync
cable to the R-Y, B-Y and Y component connection of the VTRs, but they have a
seperate component2 input one connection and it seems there is a sony cable
9-PIN D SUB to the 16 PIN component connection would this work. Or would I
still need the transcoder type thing???
Does sony sell such transcoders??? I think I should at least use component if I
get a BetacamSP recorder. BTW you do not know of anyone with a DQ422 for sale
or have you any other suggestions for me. I already have the Targa+. So I'm
slowely building my system, and I probably need broadcast level stuff.
Christophe,
A transcoder will change the R,G,and B channels from your Targa or Vista or
whatever into Y, R-R, Y-B component signal.
I'm not 100% sure I understand the second part of your question, but
if you're talking about the Y-C (S-VHS) component connector, yes it
will work, but it will definitely not be as good as a full component
input. Y-C does not carry the same strong signal as Y, Y-R, Y-B. I
think you should do some serious investigation into the equipment
you're planning on buying, in particula how/why everything works and
what your options are.
I don't own a transcoder, and don't really know what brands are out
there, but I know prices vary widely with quality. I think the
transcoder at the Beta suite I do editing at cost near $10,000, and
Angelo said there are some out there for @ $700, so… Isn't there
a professional video store in Belgium? I wouldn't consider
purchasing something like this without getting some hands on advice
from a professional. Maybe you should go to a video edit suite and
get a little consultaion or something.
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
Yes of course I'm looking for advice, on Cserve and with a
professional Sony dealer who owns a betacamSP studio and is going
digital SP, however there are not a lot of people around with
experience to put computer animation to tape you know, even they
don't know much about it, they just have an amiga system and nobody
of them knows how to operate it, someone from a TV company just
sometimes uses it when he is there. I've got one advantage at least I
can test at there site. BTW you only have 3 prof.sony dealers in
Belgium. We are a small country you know.
So I'm looking for every possible option. BTW the second part of my
question was about a direct component connection between the Targa
and the UVW, however Don Landis told me that cable probably won't do
it either.
Christophe, Thanks for your advice
It seems to me that you change your noise from the targa+64 by how you render.
You said, I think that only the background renderings generate noise on the
UVW1800 but foregrounds, (keyframe rendering?) do not generate noise. Now,
before I try to guess what it is I would like you to tell me what you call
"noise in your picture. Second, How did you measure it on the WFM? You came
up with 6 db? Third, I have never heard a Sony employee call any of their
products, or their competitors' products for that matter, "cheap". Sony
employees are just more professional than that.
Don,
>> I have never heard a Sony employee call any of thier product… "cheap".
Maybe not "cheap" specifically but the implication has been there. (Or a
disdainful look or a grimace…. or "you really don't want that…" )
-JE
Digging again, John? What for? What's the point?
>> Digging again, John… <<
You must be paranoid. 🙂 I don't have to dig for something that's not there,
right? Or is there? <g>
-JE
Paranoid? Only with you John. <BG> Tell me, do you own a metal
detector? I think you need to be spending your time explaining to us
all how you got your PAR working on the network or create a page roll
IPAS or something worthwhile like that. <BG> This would be much
more valuable to me, anyway, than getting a lesson on the body
language of a Sony sales rep or Sony tech support rep when explaining
the merits of their "cheaper" equipment. <BG>
Hey Don, it was just a FWIW comment, just as gratutious as you comment about
Sony Reps being so professional. <g> (Give me a break!)
>> Tell me, do you own a metal detector? <<
Yes I do, my EVO-9650 detect metal particles, why do you ask? <G>
I don't think anyone is interested in how I got my PAR to network, as far as
page rolls go I leave that to the Post House. I build the segments, they put
them together.
Actually my comment with regard to "cheap" equipment wasn't related to
the UVW-1800 but I have know some reps to express that opinion.
Actually it was with regard to the EV0-9750 edit deck which is
roughly the same price as a UVW-1800. At the time I was debating on
getting one as it has a built in drop out compensator, I got the
"look" then. And actually Don now that you mention it body language
is pretty important when dealing with salesman. Its a way to guage
how much of the story you're getting. I can tell a lot from a
salesman's body language. I can tell for instance if I need to do
more "digging" or if I'm getting the straight story.
Much like I can tell the red herrings from the striped bass in the threads
around here. <G>
-JE
Thanks Don I have solve the noise problem from the targa atleast to sum extent
but as to how I came up with 6db we setup white probley from the switcher and
then put it into both the 1800 and the 2800 then set the tbc in the 2800 so the
amptude of both vtr were = then we turned the gain on the scope way up and look
at the noise there was a two to one voltage ratio as i se it twise the voltage
= four times the power = 6db Am I wrong ?? Ben
While I don't disagree with your math on the 6 db issue I do question your test
procedure and use of the WFM to determine the source of the noise. BTW noise
on a WFM manifests itself as a fuzziness to the trace. If the trace is very
sharp and focused the noise is low and if fuzzy, the noise is high. To get an
actual measurement that can be deduced to 1-2 volts noise difference you
mentioned on a WFM is ludicrous. Even if the benchmark you used, a PVW, was 0
to have even one volt noise would fill the display on the WFM. If this is the
case you do have a serious problem and I'd suggest you hire yourself a
technician to get things hooked up properly. On the other hand, I read your
message where you have zeroed in on the cabling of the setup as the source of
noise. FWIW: I just took a look at some colorbars, direct, recorded to beta SP
tape and EE and I find no observable difference with the UVW 1800 here. I can
see some noise on the scopes with my 3/4 Umatic but I would not want to make
any claims as to the db difference. The targa+ showed greater noise than
the PAR but that was expected.
Hi Don It is not 1 or 2 volts it is the ratio of v1 over v2 =2 But that is all
for this noise bisunes I have Heard from sony and thay check on what the tec.
did to check out 1800 thay had eng. call me sead the tec. was wrong he got a
s/n of 47 and sent it back anyway ( just a cheep unit anyway ) spec is 49db s/n
sony seads thay are sory and gave me there choices 1 send it back and thay will
have a eng. check the s/n in conponet mode ( the tec check it in composet WRONG
spec is for componet ) or thay will just give me a new Uvw 1800 or thay will
credit what I paid for 1800 tords a PVW in b stock or new for that matter . and
as the price is going up 5% after today thay told me to put in an order for a
PVW 2800 today so I would lock in the price and that I could cancle if I wanted
to stay with the UVW ( I bet that tec. got a talking to ) so I will probly come
up with the other $7000 for the higher price sprad althow the 1800 is a good
unit I fear I might sory later so at this point I have a new compont moniter
(1954Q) some sort of a componet VTR and a new targa board coming ( truevista
componet board ) there for every thing is componet in the new system .do I nead
to buy a componet scope I have been thinking about a scope Hamlet 301 that puts
its pictor on the monitor but With only 3 units in the system I may not nead to
set horsantle phays ???? Thanks Don Ben Barron
Since you seem to have your gunsights on this S/N issue I'd recommend that you
spring for the DVW-A500. Whereas the UVW-1800 is 49db, the PVW is 51db, the
DVW is 56db in analog component; and, the DVW also has the option of recording
digitally, giving you 62 db S/N. After all, you probably wouldn't want it to
be said you have "cheap" equipment. Every engineer around here says they can't
tell the difference between the PVW and the UVW but there is a big difference
in the DVW which is considered capable of studio camera quality recording. For
me, I am very pleased with my UVW-1800. Its installation, here, has resulted
in a tripling of my business. I wasted no time in hawking the positive side of
my new toys to some new clients and the only downside is I'm currently so busy
with new animation projects that I have no time to play. I have had to reduce
my CIS time to a tenth of what it was last month. I realize the UVW is not
considered in some circles to be "betacam SP" but I don't get business from
those snobs anyway. I get business from customers that seek results and are
satisfied with the UVW tape quality. It may be that your customers are indeed
those that require the DVW quality, so, then you should sell it to them. And
that's what I recommend.
BTW: Where are you located?
Hi Don I an in berkeley ca. I work a UC berkeley and UC davis You are wright
about DVW and D1 ect. my son useing the harry and henery but this stuf is out
of my class at least for now I thank you for your input and I will haftto
deside what to do soon I think my 1800 is on the noise side and sony will fix
that at n/c. As you say if I go to a 2800 I probley wont gain mutch and I will
haft to dig up $ 7000 or so whitch will be a little hard. I probley tell sony
make my 1800 meet there specs and stay with that. Glad to here that bisness is
good for you and your making money with uith your VTR's are you duing computer
generated video or A,B role BYE BB