#Is Composer worth $149?
47 messages in this thread
Hey, y'all —
I've a possible source for copies of Altimira Composer for $149. My question
is, is this something I can't do without? I know there are some die-hard
Composerites here, and that this may be my only chance to get it.
When I decide if I'm gonna order a copy (and if so, after I DO order a copy),
I'll give out the info on the source for other interested parties, but since
"supplies are limited", I don't want to cut my foot off too early!<g>
Thanks,
Dave
I'd get it. But then, I'm a "die-hard" fan (having written the docs), and can't
think of switching to any other image package I've seen. I've gotten used to
working with multiple, floating, 32-bit images. I don't know what Microsoft
plans to do with AC, but I'm not optimistic. If you've got a chance to get it
while it's still wandering around in someone's stock, I say grab it. At the
very least, it's great for creating and editing 32-bit images that you can use
in 3DS (or for editing 32-bit images that were created in 3DS).
– Jack
Jack,
Have you played with Photoshop 3.0 very much? I'm curious what you and others
here think, because on my Pentium 90 w/ 32M RAM, it's noticeably, painfully
slower than 2.5. I actually went back and re-installed 2.5 because of this. It
seems as if the new layers option has killed its screen redraw, or something to
that effect. For me, the loss in performance isn't worth the addition of
layers.
— Jon
Jon:
I just got Photoshop 3.0 in the mail today as an upgrade to Photostyler. In
Photostyler I could easily print 'to fit' an 8-1/2" x 11" page by just checking
the 'to fit' box when I printed. I searched all over for an easy way to do
this in Photoshop to no avail. I ended up having to calculate a new DPI value
to get the image to print on one page. Do you know of a way to get this to
happen easily for me? I figure that this feature is hiding in there somewhere,
right?
Bob
Robert,
I'm not (yet) a Photoshop expert, so I can't really answer your question (I
also have never used Photostyler). You might want to go directly to Adobe.
Hope this helps.
— Jon
Jon,
I don't know about 2.5 with Photoshop as this was an upgrade from Pstyler for
me but I do know there's a significant difference between running it under
Windows and Win NT. My fist NT application BTW. <g> This has to do with a 32
bit app being piped into a 16 bit OS. Not a whole lot different than when DOS
apps became Windows apps in terms of speed due to the increased over head of
Windows, but then processors got faster and we all kinda got used to it. I say
kinda because I've never liked Windows, but NT has alot of promise and its a
heck of a lot more stable from what I can tell.
John
I haven't tried the new Photoshop, Jon. I did ask someone about its abilities
with multiple 32-bit images, and found that they don't have the concept of
"Home" and "Remember" commands for the images. Without those two commands, I
don't see how you can really manipulate sub-images properly.
– J
PMFJI
I am using Photoshop 3.0 on a 486/66 /w 16M.
How in the world can anything be PAINFULLY slow on a pentium 90? <BG>
Lee,
I don't know why, but Photoshop 3.0 is noticeably slower in its screen updating
than 2.5. (I'm running it under Windows 3.1 on a P90 with 32M of RAM.) It's so
annoying that I pulled it from my hard drive and re-installed 2.5.
— Jon
PMJI, Jack – but is there any support for Composer anymore? I love the program,
but I just tried dialing the old 800 number and it's "no longer valid". I have
an occasional, but annoying problem that sometimes my .tga files don't show up
at all – they load, I can move their frame around, but the image itself is
invisible. I was just getting ready to tell them it "never" happens with
something rendered from 3ds – but it just did. I have the most probelms with
files saved in HiResQFX, and it does also happen with .Tif files. Anyone have
any ideas? Thanks in advance. Gayle G de N.
I doubt there's any support left for Composer, though you might try the old
415/332-5801 number.
Re your Targa problem, that type of thing happens to Targa files with incorrect
header info. They contain 0-level alpha data (meaning full transparency) but
the headers say they don't. To get around that, go into the File Options dialog
box and turn off the Image File Read Alpha option before reading in the
offending file, then resave the image from Composer to update the header
properly. (Don't forget to turn off the Image File Read Alpha option after
fixing the image.) This is described on page 4-16 of the docs. You could also
find it by looking under "Targa files, invisible" in the Index.
– J
Did altimera bite the dust?
Microsoft bought it. They evidently wanted to own the technology so they could
either promote it — or kill it. I don't really know what they plan on doing
with it, but I'm glad I got a copy while it was still available.
– J
Bummer. I have a lite version, but I never got around to upgrading it. Too late
now, I guess.
Not necessarily. There might be a few dealers out there somewhere with a few
copies in stock. This thread started when someone mentioned finding a source.
However, the stated price makes me think they might be the "lite" versions.
– J
Altamira was purchased by Microsoft.
Composer is well worth $149 and you will be one of the lucky people to have a
copy
>>>Composer is well worth $149 and you will be one of the lucky people to have
a copy<<<
and I suppose I may have already won a million dollars?
Sorry, the way you phrased that it sounded like Ed McMahon whispering in my
ear.
considering I just spent 300 bucks on LenZFX, I kinda doubt I will be getting
composer…
Gayle,
Microsoft claims they are supporting Composer so give them a call!
Thomas Lindstrom – DiP – Sweden
Thanks. Does anyone know what they are going to do with it? It's such a
painless program, and so compatible with 3DS …
Oh, I'm so sorry. Another no brainer. It's right there in the index under
"Targa files, invisible" 😮 (very embarrassed).
As you can see, I've already answered your previous message. Glad you found it,
though.
– J
>As you can see, I've already answered your previous message.<
Hehe, Do you have ALL the doc's you've written memorized? 🙂
I'd be interested in a version myself. When did they get bought by Microsoft?
I talked with someone at Siggraph about it.. was it before that? I think
keyframed motion in Composer would be great. Or in Painter. I'm suprised
there isn't a program out with that capability.. 🙁
JNJ
They were bought several months (close to a year) ago. The foundation of the
program was designed to make it easy for them to move it to keyframing, but it
never got the support to make that worth while.
– J
>The foundation of the program was designed to make it easy for them to move it
to keyframing, but it never got the support to make that worth while.<
Too bad- Could've used today. 3DS is a bit overkill for moving 2D objects
around. Do you know of anything like Rio Animator that's more current?
JNJ
>>Do you know of anything like Rio Animator that's more current?
PMJI, but I think that 2D animation has been terribly overlooked for years.
RIO Animator suggested what could be done, but -like a lot of other things- it
just tacked animation on the side of a graphics package. I have my hopes
currently focussed on Autodesk Animator Studio. I don't have a beta of this,
but it certainly has a good animation pedigree!
Paul -Rising Star Graphics
>>…know of anything like Rio Animator…
Sorry, not at present.
– J
Thanks, I thought so. 🙁
Jack,
Nice to meet you! Even if I think the Composer Users' Guide could have been
twice as comprehensive, I like it a lot… Particularly the tutorials are
great. When I first open the manual I got an immediate deja vue: Animator Pro!
You weren't possibly involved in the Animator docs as well? I actually asked
Altamira, but they weren't sure.
Seems like you're right in your pessimistic view of the future of Microsoft
Composer. I tried to milk Microsoft over in one of their forums, but got an
absolutely meaningless reply, very diplomatic, to say the least. I kept on
asking and could see how they got more and more irritated when I was not
satisfied with empty words. At least they said they will continue to support
registered user's now and in the future. I could not interpret "in the future"
as anything else than copies still on the shelves.
A very genuine pity! (Particularly so when I had spent a couple of months
producing a thorough online Composer review/tutor <g>)
Thomas Lindstrom – DiP – Sweden
Digital Pictures and more
GO ASHOWCASE or GRAHPSUP/9 for DiP samples
It is a pity that a company can get so huge that it can simply _buy_ the
competition and bury technology.
– J
David –
One of the neat things about Composer is that it opens up all files as though
they have alpha channels – they are floating against a background. These
objects can be moved separately, and don't have the annoying "marching ants"
you see in Photoshop 2.5 or Photostyler 2.0. And while the new Photoshop has a
good layer capability, the metaphor and interface of Composer is intuitive to
use. I find it especially useful for creating collages.
When you are ready to let the world know where Composer can be had for that
price, let me know. I'd like to be able to announce it to my 3D Studio user
group in Southern California.
A definite "must have" at that price. Get it before Microsoft homogenizes, or
builds some of its features into Windows Paint!
Bob
Dave:
I'm a fan of Composer, at $149 be sure you are not getting a lite version which
is often packaged in sound card bundles. Although the capabilities for
floating selections exist in all of your favorite paint packages Composer is
the easiest one I've used. My personal opinion is that this program is very
CADlike as you move images around like CAD objects. For putting titles on an
image or creating a composition of many images (hence its name Composer, doh!)
its worth the money. You can save your compositions for future re-shuffling
which I find more difficult in Painter, Photoshop, Photostyler and Corel.
Bob
>You can save your compositions for future re-shuffling which I find more
difficult in Painter, Photoshop, Photostyler and Corel.<
Bob, have you checked out Picture Publisher? It saves objects in its own file
format with a basic "save as.." operation. Do other programs not do it that
simply?
JNJ
John:
/_______________________From your message________________________\\
Bob, have you checked out Picture Publisher? It saves objects in its own file
format with a basic "save as.." operation. Do other programs not do it that
simply? __________________________________________________________________
Nope, never tried PP. In Composer you use a one commmand "Save Composition As"
versus most other paint programs' "Save As." What you get is a structured new
directory with a data file (.acc extension) which points to full images with
alpha channels all saved in .aci format. The 'Save As' in most other paint
programs gives you a single file (possibly more convenient). Actually, part of
what I was trying to point out to Dave was that creating and saving
compositions with alpha channels (Composer) vs. 'floaters' (Painter) vs.
'layers' in Corel or Photoshop is very simple. If you open an image in
Composer it gets an alpha channel slapped onto it if it doesn't have one yet.
In most other paint programs you have to make a selection of some kind and make
it float. If you were just adding a rectangular logo to the bottom of a
rendered image I think Composer will get you there faster than any other paint
program that I've tried. In Composer you would open up the rendered image,
open the logo image, move the logo to the desired spot if its not there already
(for convenience Composer lets you use the arrow keys to shuffle images around)
and save your composition. There is no creation of an alpha mask for the logo
as it is done for you on the fly. So, its not specifically the saving of the
composition but the process one has to go through to get to a saved re-editable
composition for which I prefer Composer. There's no question that a bunch of
the paint programs out there support multiple floating selections but I've only
seen Composer make a floating selection out of an image automatically on
import.
Bob
Hi John,
Don't know what happened to the message from RR you replied to. Seems like
messages are disappearing often here even with daily visits…
I am still waiting for Photoshop 3.0, but I would be surprised if there will be
any major difference between how PS, PP and Painter treats
layers/objects/floater (nice with different names on the same thing, isn't it?
<g>).
Composer isn't so much different in how it saves the compositions to
a file. Where it *is* different is how it handles the loaded composition. In
most respects it is superior and if there only had been a list of objects (like
in the three P's)……
Thomas Lindstrom – DiP – Sweden
Digital Pictures and more
GO ASHOWCASE or GRAHPSUP/9 for DiP samples
Picture Publisher makes objects like objects, Photoshop 3 has "layers", which
can be painted on again, and outside the "boundaries" of what PP would call an
object. in PP, you can't paint on the objects once they're created, you gotta
do some playing around before that can happen. (like make a larger object, and
paste the other to the new.) I don't know much about Photoshop's usability vs.
Picture Publisher- I haven't worked with Photoshop as much. I like some things
from both, but wish I could combine them into one program. 🙂
How do you like 3DO development?
JNJ
Dave
For that price you can't go wrong. I don't have any experience with Pshop or
Pstyler, there is no comparison with the way Composer handles floating objects
and the way Painter 3.0 handles them. Composer has floating objects by
default. The ability to lift areas off other images as objects with clean edges
and to save just the new object as a tga, etc. is very handy, especially with
decal materials. Alignment of objects is very easy in Composer….the list goes
on!
Hope that helps.
TedB
!^NavFont01F0007MGHHH9AB57A
I use it and like it! My copy of PhotoShop is on the way so cant speak to a
comparison. I would add I have a prob with Composer caused by my Diamond
Stealth 64 VLB.
The last I heard was that Composer was being changed into a animation
compositor. Alvy Ray Told me himself, but who know after the JUGGERNAUT bought
them out.
-ARG
I don't expect that Composer will ever exist again, Andrew. It doesn't seem to
be the reason why MS bought the company.
– G
Its too bad. Because it would have been one heck of a Compositor for animation
if they put in the timeline they were talking about. Wasnt Alvy Ray Smith one
of the dudes who put together the Disney CAPS system?
Andrew
Yes.
– J
David,
Thanks for the info, even if was, hmmmm…. , let's say: a bit secretive.
Composer for $149 is *a must*, even as a collector's item! I may be wrong, but
I think Composer started the "pixelized objects" trend that Adobe finally
arrived at in Photoshop 3.0 as layers.
Don't get me wrong: Composer is a lot more than an important step in the
evolution of image editors. There is still no other software treating objects
(floating selections, layers or whatever) and transparency (alpha info) the way
Composer does. Altamira managed to make a truly innovative program, but maybe
went a bit too far in some respects; takes a bit of relearning….
Just to be able to move around a large number of image objects without being
locked up inside a window is worth $149 <g>. Composer is based on a pasteboard
metaphor where the composition area is surrounded by an infinite "void". This
has to be experienced!
Today you can do most of the Composer operations in Painter, Picture Publisher
and Photoshop. BUT…. the entire concept of Composer makes a lot of things
more obvious. Alpha is transparent in a double sense! The Warp functions in
Composer are still unbeaten, though.
Go, no: RUN for a copy!
Thomas Lindstrom – DiP – Sweden – Digital Pictures and more
GO ASHOWCASE or GRAHPSUP/9 for DiP samples
Thomas, Bob, Jack, et al:
Thanks for the Composer raves! I just ordered a copy (and was assured that it
was the full package).
For anyone looking to get in on this deal, here's the info:
Altimira Composer – $149 is available in limited quantities from a company
called DTPdirect. Their number is 800-890-9371.
FedEx overnight is $9.
Knock yourselves out!
Dave
Thanks for the info, Dave. By the way, you should be able to check if it's the
full package by simply loading (or creating) more than eight images on screen.
As I recall, the "Lite" version of Composer was exactly the same as the full
version, except it was limited to eight images in a composition.
– J
Thanks Jack — will do!
Dave
Jack:
I got Composer this afternoon, and it appears to be the full package
— it says "Professional" on the box, and I was able to open 8+
images in a view.
I've left email with a MS CS rep to determine exactly what
responsibility they feel towards me (ie registration, support, etc)
and to ask if they've got any of the CD-ROM's you were supposed to
receive upon registration.
It looks like a slick package — hopefully, I'll get some time to play
with it this weekend….
I'll be curious to hear what MS has to say on the subject of support, etc.
Meanwhile… Enjoy!
– J