#No ASG Architectural
36 messages in this thread
Recently we tried loading a dxf of a house into my dealer's copy of R.2.
The house plan was created with ACAD r.11 using ASG Architectural. Some of
it came through, though virtually none of the detail (doors, windows, etc.)
did. Is this only a flaw in the pre-release version, or does this also
occur with the release version? Doing all this detail work in the editor
can be kind of a drag.
Roger D.
Roger, it depends on the dxf file. If the architectural model was created
using ACADr11 using AME, then the model will have to be meshed (SOLMESH)
before you can expect to see correct 3D solids in 3DSr2's DXF imports. –
Greg
BTW: You can export 2D (plan view) DXFs and bring them into 3DS's shaper
and loft them into 3D objects for further manipulation in the editor.
Greg,
The file was originally created by a builder using ASG Architectural, not
AME. The stuff that didn't come in were windows and doors out of the Pella
symbols library. Thanks.
Roger D.
I believe that you'll have to find some way of meshing those objects (or
rebuilding them in the shaper/lofter) if you want them in the 3DS model. I
haven't used ASG's product. Can you generate meshes from there? – greg
Greg,
ASG can create a 3 dimensional file. Whether it can be called a mesh or
not, I'm not sure. Sounds like Terry's got a pretty good idea of how it
works. Now we just have to figure out a way to tell people how to save out
of it so that it's usable in 3DS. Thanks.
Roger D.
I guarantee you that every 3D entity that you can create in AutoCAD will be
imported into 3DSr2. I DOUBLE-GUARANTEE IT.
If some of the entities didn't come through in the shaper, it's because
they are not valid entities (for some reason). If they were created in AME
(which they probably weren't) it may be what Greg said regarding their not
being SOLMESH'd first. Otherwise, it may be because they are open
polylines (these are invalid entities that may only be brought in as lofter
paths and animation paths), or another of the few bizarre entities that
aren't topologically valid. There are so many ways to create things in
AutoCAD that it invariably happens. The main test is that if you can
render it in AutoShade, it'll come into 3DS.
– G
Gary,
I can double-double guarantee you that the windows and doors didn't come in
<g>. As far as their being invalid entities, I'm not really familiar
enough yet with ASG Architectural to know how it draws everything in the
symbols library–Pella, Andersen, etc. Heck, Gary, last July when I was
struggling to create houses in 3DS, you told me the hot setup was ASG
Architectural. "He whipped a house up in 15 minutes."
Seriously, Gary, forgive me for being stupid about some of these issues. I
only know what I read and what people tell me, and lately that's gotten me
into a whole lot of trouble. Does ASG draw things wrong, and how do I
correct it in order to get it into 3DS?
Gary, don't get me wrong. I love 3DS. It's just in order to make a living
at this stuff, I have to tap all the ties I have from my 20 years in the
building and remodeling industry. And they're all used to "either it works
or it don't." Otherwise it's all just pretty pictures.
Thanks, Roger D.
Roger:
I'm going to step WAY out of bounds here and speak for Gary. He's tired,
he's worn out, he's frustrated, and he's got a sore butt… which explains
the tone but not the intention of his note to you…
What he's trying to say is that he's pretty darned sure that there isn't
any 3D entity in AutoCAD that won't translate to 3DS… so the >windows<
created by ASG must not have the proper 3D entities in them or they are
translating as infitesimally small blocks, or who knows what… and these
are from the Marvin pakage, not ASG (well, since they bought Vertex, I
guess they are from ASG…).
The thing to do is to A. Not expect Gary to be civil for the next month or
so… B. Don't ask him anything about ASG 'cause he doesn't know anything
about it… and C. Go over to the ACAD forum and rattle the cage of one of
the ASG reps over there… Stewart Sadabell is one that I know of…
I don't use the thing, either, so I can't tell you what is going on but I'm
confident the mystery will be revealed to you when you execute your search
with enough humility and knee crawling groveling that someone will take
pity on you instead of tell you to learn more about the software that
you're using <grin>.
C#
You were not out-of-bounds at ALL. I appreciate all the support I can get
right now. In about fourteen days, I'm going to be literally gone from the
forum for at least three weeks, and then I'll be dependant upon you guys
for ALL of my CIS support.
– G
Gary – Just leave the forwarding number for which island you'll be on so we
can all contact you there (voice). Grin. Just kidding. Have a great vakay.
– greg
Craig (A.K.A. Gary),
I can't believe he's still here. I would have hotfooted it off to the
Caribbean a heartbeat after I handed it to the publishing people, or maybe
he should take a hint from Joe Montana after the Superbowl and just go to
Disney. I was just watching the opening of EuroDisney with my son. Looks
like that could be fun, too.
Roger D.
Yeah, well… I just didn't think that leaving right after handing in the
code would be the honorable thing to do. Plus, I had let so many things
slide during the last six months that I had almost a month of catch-up to
do on the non-3DS aspects of my life. (believe it or not, I actually do
have some of those)
Don't worry, I'll be out of here soon enough. <g>
– G
Ahm,
I believe that the windows in ASG come from a number of sources. Windows
can be defined in either CORE, Architectural, or using the PELLA library.
I *have* the PELLA library but have never used it. In any case, I would
bet that the entities are blocks or PLINES w/ thickness and height.
I will look into this in a day or so and let you know… I hope they all
translate because I just told everyone here that these two packages
would work together!!!!
BTW, is it true that you are in Milwaukee? Well, so am I!! I think I have
heard Anil talk about you (he is a good friend of mine). Perhaps we
should get together and work this bug out?
-Mike.
Michael,
I'm afraid you're under a little misconception. It's I who am in
Milwaukee. I'm still interested in keeping this Milwaukee user's group
going. Any ideas?
Roger D.
Yes, I know you're in Milwaukee.
The user group? It was a *great* idea a year ago when Anil and I started
it. But it took so much work, and only 3-5 people would show up each time.
-what a pain-
Wasn't there supposed to be a meeting last night, or last monday, or
something? (how active could it be when a founder doesn't even know <g>)
Perhaps we should get together with Anil and go for a beer?
Did you find anything out about the ASG problem? I have 5.0 now.
Call me.
-Mike (359-2300)
OK, so I'll DOUBLE-SECRET guarantee you that Craig is totally correct when
he states:
"… for Gary. He's tired, he's worn out, he's frustrated, and he's
got a sore butt… which explains the tone but not the intention
of his note to you…"
Problems that folks have with Acad entities DO frustrate me because we
spent so much time getting our DXF import code as solid as it could
POSSIBLY be before we shipped r2. The BASIC problem is the fact that CAD
programs were not designed with renderers in mind, and that it's possible
to make illegal unrenderable entities no matter how complete the conversion
code is.
The ONLY solution to this is the new .3DS "C" libraries that Keith Seifert
wrote under contract to Autodesk. They're now in beta-test phase, and
should be available FOR FREE soon. These libraries will make it possible
for ANY program (CAD or otherwise) to write .3DS files with perfect
normals, materials, textures, AND animation. You'll see an ADS routine that
writes .3DS files from inside AutoCAD before the end of the year. And
after that, you won't HAVE to convert dumb DXF files.
OK? <g>
– G
PS: Boy, does my butt hurt. I still haven't had NEARLY enough time off to
REMOTELY recover from the past year. I finally put together the spinal
inversion machine I bought six months ago to counter the effects of sitting
in front of the computer for 16 hours a day. I ordered it in early
January, needing it BADLY. It showed up in kit form Feb. 1st and I haven't
had the time to put it together until TODAY. Dangling upside-down this
afternoon was a step in the right direction!
Gary,
Not having to deal with the blankety blank blank .dxf blankety blank blank
will probably delight me only slightly less than it will delight you.
Sounds great!
On your back problem, one of the original integral parts of purchasing this
whole roomful of thingamabobs and electrical stuff was a lumbar support
chair. I got it at a store in Milwaukee called Office Depot–don't know how
regional they are–made all the difference in the world while trying to get
through all the 20-some pounds of tutorials I've done in the last 6 months.
It might be an idea for when you get back.
I was kind of flattered to see some of my work on a demo at the Dell booth
at WindowsWorld. It seemed like a strange place to demo r2, but the new
Dell computer with video on the motherboard really adds to 3DS's screen
redraws, etc. Seems like the drivers need a little bit of work, but
interesting machine.
Hey! Go get a life!<g> You have my blessing.<g>
Roger D.
I bought a good lumbar support chair right after we handed in the 3DSr1
code (about 18 months ago). It's what made it possible to sit in front of
the computer so much for r2. Without it, I'm SURE I'd be a quivering blob
of protoplasm right now.
The inversion contraption I've got now is pretty cool, actually. It uses
gravity to stretch out the spine.
Regarding that Dell machine… I've heard a LOT about it, and am dying to
do some benchmarks on one soon. There's a rumour that one of them is
floating around Adesk somewhere.
– G
Gary,
As long as you're going to work all of those vampire hours, you might as
well be hanging upside down <g>. Seriously, though, when I tried it I got
a headache. They say it goes away though, once you get used to it. Does
it?
At $5400 I'd be tempted to buy 2 Gateways, though. But that Dell thing was
sure fast.
Roger D.
I used to have a pair of gravity boots. Just about destroyed my ankles.
Ggg
That's why I've never bought a pair of gravity boots. I've been interested
in keeping my back in one piece for years now, and although everyone says
that inversion is the best therapy, gravity boots aren't a very good idea.
The device I bought is called an Orthopod, and you step into it, it holds
you by the pelvis, and you rotate 180-degrees. Works GREAT. No stress on
the body at all… I just hang for a few minutes and it seems to do a
pretty good job of counteracting some of the bad effects of being in 1G.
Hey, I'd rather be floating upside down under a coral reef somewhere,
but…
– G
Gary,
I think I remember this device. Is the position with legs bent,
sort of like sitting (on the tops of your thighs, though), and you tip
over? The gravity boot approach is really, really harmful, because the
legs are straight, and this puts considerable stress in the lower back.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
That's it exactly. You get into it and sit on your thighs and then rotate
over. It takes a little getting used to because of all the blood rushing
to my head, so I've only done it for 3-5 minutes at a shot.
– G
Gary,
I'd have one of those, along with some other toys, if only I had the
room. Ever seen those gyroscope-like exercisers that you sorta fly around
in, in 3 dimensions?
BTW, check your EMAIL. No, I'm not asking you to DO anything.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Try bungee-jumping attached by your ankles. That should straighten out your
spine especially if the cords have lost their elasticity! <g>
Sounds like it your Othopod should help your diving. I have a
Tenka-dive-vehicle and I like to do barrel rolls, but takes a while to get
used to flying upside down (under water). Hope you can give us a .GIF of
your next dive!
TNX Buck
Kevin,
Really? All these years I've been hanging upside-down and found the Gravity
Boots great, once I bent them into a oval shape (rather than the round shape
that killed my ankles).
Ken ///
Roger,
I have been following your thread on the 3DS import problem. I have
not used ASG's package but would bet that the window symbols are blocks and
were created using mostly lines. Lines do not convert in to 3D objects.
I will take a look at the drawing or DXF file if you wish and may be
able to propose a solution. We have a BBS available at 303-759-3598, upto
14.4K any setup but YMODEM tends to be flakey. You can leave your phone
with the file or contact me here.
Keith
Keith,
Thanks. I'll get in touch with you if Gregg and I can't figure it out.
Roger D.
Roger
Most likely, there are a lot of normals pointing the wrong way. You could
check this in 3dStudio's 3d Editor by using the successive commands:
DISPLAY/GEOMETRY/BACKFACE and observing what disappears in the wireframe
representation. If that's the problem, the fix can be very tedious. If the
CAD designer didn't draw the model anticipating normal-directions, they are
pretty much 50/50 right/wrong direction. It has been suggested that, for a
quick still of the model, you apply 2-sided materials. While this doubles
the rendering time, it may be acceptable for a single shot. It's pretty
much UNacceptable for animations, not only for the doubled rendering time,
but the quality of the animation suffers greatly frame-to-frame if you're
using any 2 sided texture, opacity, reflection, or bump maps.
For the past 2 years I've been involved in post-processing CAD (mainly
AutoCAD) drawings to align the normal-directions correctly so that the files
could then be used as the geometry in Wavefront Advanced Visualizer. I've
found the same techniques work beautifully in 3DStudio.
Try the 2-sided technique if that's acceptable; if not, zip up the drawing
and EMAIL me a copy – I'd be glad to give you a proposal for the
normalizing.
Regards…
Terry
Thanks Terry,
Just for curiousity, we threw a double-sided material on everything, and
no, they weren't there at all. I'm not sure what or how ASG is creating
windows and doors, etc. Maybe Gary will help shed some light on this for
me. I wish I could send some work your way, but there isn't enough money
in this yet for me to pay for hardware, software, and make a living on it,
much yet invite others to the trough quite yet. I'll keep your name for
future reference, though. Thanks.
Roger D.
Roger D,
Is ASG the old AEC stuff? They used to create doors & windows by inserting
a unit-dimensioned block and parametrically scaled it in x,y,z (all doors
would be 1" x 1" x 1" then they'd set the xyz scale of the block to -say- 30
1.5 and 68 upon insert.
Have you tried the DXF3DS utility to create a .3DS file? I just tried it on
an old AEC door block & it worked great.
If you'd like, WBLOCK out one of the offending doors or windows to its own
file, and I'd be glad to take a look at it – it should end up being a very
small drawing – just Email it. No guzzlin' at the trough or nothin'.
Regards,
Terry
Terry,
I don't have ASG Architectural. We just get these things and try to work
with them. I think you're exactly right in your analysis. I don't have
the file right now. Gregg P. does. I expect him to tag in here shortly.
I think he's done some more work on the issue. We'll see what happens.
Thanks.
Roger D.
Roger,
It just dawned on me that you're the guy who gave me some encouraging advice
when I was shopping for another 486 – we had been talking about Gateways,
and you sent me the cow.zip file after I bought one.
It's pretty scary how small this big world really is!
Regards,
Terry
Terry,
How are things going for you? Having good luck with the machine, I hope?
I just uploaded that flic to the forum, but as soon as everyone's got r.2
with the Boolean operations, the modeling work on the front of the machine
will be no big deal. Oh well, onward and upward.
Roger D.
Richard-
I think you're right about the way ASG creates windows and doors. You end
up with different X and Y scale factors, which tends to make the entities a
little harder to deal with. I'll help RogerD put together a little drawing
to see if we can figure this one out.
Ggg