#Lightwave vs. 3DS
65 messages in this thread
What in the hell are you talking about? Please list all the TV and film
productions that use 3D Studio graphics. I assure you there are many more using
Lightwave.
Brian Schmitt
PiXcellence Imaging
Brian:
>> What in the hell are you talking about?
>> Please list all the TV and film productions that use 3D Studio graphics.
>> I assure you there are many more using Lightwave.
You'd probably be surprised at how many are using 3DS. The 3DSers probably
just aren't as vocal as the Lightwave folks out there. Perhaps we should all
chime in, actually, I'm also curious as to which other shows are using 3DS…
Here are a few that we are _currently_ working on in 3DS to start the list:
TV:
Francis Ford Coppola's "The Conversation"
FOX's "AJ's Time Travelers"
SciFi Channel's "UFO Diaries"
DIC Entertainment's "Where Is Carmen SanDiego?"
FILM:
Paramount's "Virtuosity"
Warner Brothers' "Fair Game" (Cindy Crawford, Billy Baldwin)
(With two more under discussion right now.)
Greg Pyros
You have to admit that this list seems anemic compared to what Lightwave is
doing right now, not even to mention projects in the works. To say that
Lightwave hasn't made the in-roads with the Hollywood community as much as 3D
Studio is laughable propaganda. Both programs are very powerful 3D packages,
especially considering that they
are being used on desktop computers. I would however go as far as to say that
Lightwave is a MUCH better value than 3DS, especially when you take into
account all the IPAS routines that you would have to purchase to get features
that are in Lightwave right out of the box. I do realize that you are a
developer for 3DS and I offer kudos for the work you have done on plug-ins for
3DS. I have a Pentium computer that has PAR installed just waiting for the PC
version of Lightwave to be released and I will buy 3DS eventually as I am
dropping the Amiga entirely now. Right now I am forced to use it on a friends
computer when he is not using it. I hope that I have not stirred any hard
feelings through my admittedly strong opinions. Regards.
Brian Schmitt
PiXcellence Imaging
>> I hope that I have not stirred any hard feelings through my admittedly
>> strong opinions. Regards.
Ha ha ha. Perhaps I'll go over to a Lightwave Users' Group meeting (is there
such a thing?) and explain how much better the core 3DS is and how much
flexibility is offered by its open architecture. Then I'll say that I hope I
haven't stirred any hard feelings… <g>
Yes, I'm being sarcastic. Most of the active participants in this forum are
active users of 3DS. I can think of several on the forum who work across
several hardware/software platforms and creative boundaries. 3DS is a VERY
strong package which is VERY affordable and VERY well supported. While many
here work with additional tools to assist in their work (the best tool for the
job…), you will not find much negative feedback here about 3DS.
I will admit that I know little about Lightwave (as you likely know little
about 3ds.) If you are willing to drop your strong negativism, I would be
interested in comparing strengths and weaknesses of our chosen software
packages.
>> waiting for the PC version of Lightwave to be released… as I am dropping
>> the Amiga entirely now.
3DS is on its 4th PC version already. Continue to spend some time checking it
out. While it is different than what you are used to, it IS still an excellent
tool.
– Dave Marks
Who said I don't know much about 3DS? I feel very competent with 3D Studio. I
never said that Lightwave is a better program, I said it is a better value.
Lightwave NT will
sell for about $850 street price. 3D Studio costs more than three times that
without lens flares, bones, displacement mapping, metaforms, etc..etc… I will
put my 3D Studio skills up against almost anyone's and I have been using it on
a very limited basis. Regards.
Brian Schmitt
>> I never said…
I apologize if I read more into your words than you intended. It was getting
late when I replied, and I should have waited until morning before sending it.
Your written tone sounded confrontational and I took a similar approach.
The next year will be interesting for PC-based animators. I'd be interested in
seeing a feature for feature comparison of the products. This is probably not
an appropriate place for it, so I'll just do some research before I put my foot
in my mouth.
– Dave
> You have to admit that this list seems anemic compared to what Lightwave is
doing right now, <
Greg didn't make it clear that these were productions coming from _his_
company only. There are at least few dozen other production houses using 3DS
in television. Just because you see Lightwave on Seaquest every week doesn't
mean the entire film and televsion community is hell bent on Lightwave.
Off the cuff … some programs that are or have used 3DS somewhere in
production:
Time Traxx
Star Trek: TNG
Star Trek: DS9
Unsolved Mysteries
Encounters
Sightings
Liquid Television
Promos -n- Tags . . .
Discovery Channel
Sci-Fi Channel
MTV
CNN
A&E
Nickelodian
Big Freebee networks (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX)
These are just a few I happen to remember. If eveyone here listed a program
they knew of, it would be much longer. Rather than propagate this inane
discussion, however, lets have our next comments include verifiable statistical
market data. Here's one: Autodesk products account for approximately 25% of
the current market share in desktop animation software. Where does Lightwave
stand?
> I hope that I have not stirred any hard feelings through my admittedly
strong opinions. <
Ditto.
— James E. Coulter — Choreo Motion —
James, just to clarify one comment… The Roncarelli report just made a study
public in which they said 3DS accounts for almost 60% of all 3D animation
software used professionally (on all platforms) and almost 80% market share for
PC-based software (specifically).
– G
Gary
I 've been schmitten by a new commercial possibility that someone will
make
some real dinero with! Application Trading cards!!!! Similar to baseball cards
but
w/ all acheivements and stats etc. for trade and "dream-team" scenarios!! You
don't even have to own the App cause trading and arguing would be part of the
game!! Would Wavefront be the Nolan Ryan? Hey……..I wonder if the MAC vs
IBM thing is still hot?
I originally thought that this was an excellent vehicle for individuals
such as Gary Yost, Tim Forcade(artist's concept of face, of course), Greg
Pyros, …the list could go on……….!!
GaryA:
>> Gary Yost, Tim Forcade(artist's concept of face, of course), Greg Pyros…
Oh, boy! Just what the world needs… :^)
Greg Pyros
Whoa! (At least I erred on the conservative side!!)
Thanks, Gary, for the correction. I'm going to file that for future reference.
— James — Choreo Motion —
Ask me in about 6 months where Lightwave stands as it is soon to be available
on the same platform as 3D Studio. I'm sure it will sell quite well and you may
see it surpass 3D Studio's market share. Only time will tell. Regards.
Brian Schmitt
> Ask me in about 6 months where Lightwave stands <
Mulligan granted. I have tagged October 3, 1995, in my PIM to remind me to
pose the question again. I'm willing to concede that anything is possible in
this market. If, however, I should be mistaken in my estimation that 3DS is
(and will remain) the better value as evidenced by the market share, I will
execute my Mulligan and request another six-month stay-of-execution by which
time 3DS will also be available on NT.
— James — Choreo Motion —
Brian,
As someone very familiar with the LightWave market (having been LightWave's
original product manager), let me jump in. Newtek's pricing structure may be
the biggest obstacle. With very small dealer margins why would any dealer
switch from selling 3DS in which they can make a decent margin to LightWave?
That is the battle Newtek faces.
Brent
I am not sure what NewTek's wholesale pricing is, but I'm not sure it matters.
I am not looking at from a dealer's point of view but as a consumer. I know
that Lightwave will
be available to whoever wants it even if it means getting it through a
mail-order company. BTW I have enjoyed your many fine articles in VTU over the
years. Do you still use Lightwave? I have been reading posts about Positron's
MeshPaint and I think congratulations are in order. Developers like yourself
are quickly bridging the gap between
desktop capabilities and those of expensive workstations (read: SGI). Regards.
Brian Schmitt
Brian,
Thanks for the comments on my columns.
>>I am not sure what NewTek's wholesale pricing is, but I'm not sure it
matters. I am not looking at from a dealer's point of view but as a consumer.
The whole problem with Newtek's pricing structure is that it has a trickle down
effect that eventually will hurt the consumer. First, dealers aren't likely to
support a product that they don't make much money on. Since LightWave is
relatively easy to use, this isn't a huge problem.
Second, with the price where it's at, how could a developer like Positron (my
company), justify charging half the retail price for a plug-in? So, the
developers have to lower their prices to stay in line with Newtek's structure.
This is enough to keep many developrs away from porting their routines. To stay
afloat, a price point needs to be a fine blend of what the consumer will pay,
how many potential units can be sold, and enough for the developer to continue
to support and add features to a product.
Third, Newtek places themselves in a pricing trap for future LightWave
upgrades. If they were to come out with a version beyond 4.0 down the line that
had an enormous amount of new features, how much could they ask their existing
base to pay in upgrades? Does this force them to offer less in upgrades, but
increase their frequency?
I still enjoy using LightWave, but have really enjoyed the wonderful
communications with Autodesk during the development of our products. Their
level of support has been unmatched!
Brent
<< Ask me in about 6 months where Lightwave stands as it is soon to be
available on the same platform as 3D Studio. I'm sure it will sell quite well
and you may see it surpass 3D Studio's market share. Only time will tell. >>
If LW was truly equivalent to 3DS4 or even 3DS5, it would still be quite a feat
to equal market share with 3DS. And, it would take years on this platform to do
it. It took 3DS years to capture this market with a clearly superior product. I
don't believe you realize just how widespread 3DS use is on this platform, or
how difficult it is to de-throne a product which is not only supporting it's
current user base very well, but still evolving in signifigant leaps & bounds.
Applications lose signifigant market share when they are:
1) Overwhelmed with superior performance (first) and price.
2) Are not supporting the existing customer base satisfactorily.
3) When they begin to stop evolving signifigantly.
4) If they become unstable, difficult to use.
I don't see any opening for LW here. It may sell, but not at the expense of 3DS
potential customers.
BILL
There is a point I am going to make here that will certainly make me an even
less popular member of this forum. I think Autodesk got lazy with release 4. It
is essentially release 3 with a few great plug-ins thrown in. The IK is nothing
short of outstanding in it's implementation as is the camera preview/match
perspective IPAS. I do believe that Autodesk is taking too much stock in their
own press. A new-comer has beaten Autodesk to the NT marketplace as well as to
the Alpha and MIPS machine. I think this may be more costly than alot of people
think as Alpha workstations are selling VERY well.
Brian Schmitt
Brian,
Don't you think it is a bit rude to continue to dump your negative views of 3DS
here in this 3DS forum? This is a support forum is for users of 3DS. There are
many programs I don't like and don't use but I don't think it is right to go to
their forums and continually whine about my personal likes and dislikes.
If you don't like 3DS, fine. Don't buy 3DS. Don't use 3DS. Use Lightwave.
Who cares what you think about 3DS!
Go away.
Alec Jason
<< I think Autodesk got lazy with release 4. >>
I think you're missing the big picture. What in fact has happened is:
They managed to put out an interim product << with a few great plug-ins thrown
in >> as you said, ** while simulataneously developing the next generation s/w
in rel.5 ** I find this parallel development to be rather good for the user
base. I suppose some people can just look at as rel.4 not being what they
expected for what in fact will be rel.5. Of course, this *did* allow the user
base to get even more powerful s/w 1 or 2 years earlier. Not to mention the
release costs less and came earlier than ever before. It's all just how you
look at it. When rel.5 ships, I imagine your view in retrospect, may be
different.
<< A new-comer has beaten Autodesk to the NT marketplace as well as to the
Alpha and MIPS machine. >>
I didn't know there was a race <g>. Actually, the first app's to appear on a
platform (historically), usually don't end up dominating in their field.
Until the dedicated h/w assisted RT rendering cards are in the pipeline, I
don't think we'll see too much of a leap foward from anyone. Rel. 5 probably
will come along at just the right time….not too early, not too late IMO.
BILL
Ok, I've read your negative dribble long enough. You really do not have a clue
do you? Don't answer please. All I can say about LW vs. 3DS is that you get
what you pay for. Why do you think companies like Sony pictures, Metrolight
studios, etc etc etc. use 3DS and not LW. Because it is simply a better, more
mature product, that has a very committed development team behind it. I've
_used_ LW (read past tense). I use and will continue to use 3DS for my
professional work. LW simply cannot compete with 3DS on really _any_ level.
Maybe you should go over to the Real 3D forum at least there your lofty
assumptions of LW may be correct. Well, I'll drop you a note in October and
reaffirm that everyone else on this forum was right. Oh, and go ahead buy LW –
it only means less competition for all the folks using 3DS. Oh, just one more
thing. I can guarantee you, that you are not so proficient at 3DS as you claim,
if you were you would not be so misguided as to really believe that LW is
superior. I do agree that LW has its merits but you are way off course, as you
will see.
DM
Brian,
I'm just jumping in, but not to get on your case. <g>
>> It is essentially release 3 with a few great plug-ins… <<
Well lets say you right, those plug-ins would have cost more as plug-ins than
as a new release, just for argument sake. But never mind that…
When R5 comes out, I _guarantee_ its going to be a ***MAJOR*** ***MAJOR*** new
release and its going to trounce the heck out of everything in sight…
SoftImage will be called Silly Image and Alias will be called Alas (big sigh)
and Light Wave will be called Dim Wave… <g>
yeah so maybe I'm exaggerating slightly… but only only slightly… <g>
John
>>SoftImage will be called Silly Image and Alias will be called Alas (big sigh)
and Light Wave will be called Dim Wave… <g>
>>yeah so maybe I'm exaggerating slightly… but only only slightly… <g>
>>John
Wow, somebody with a sense of humor in this forum. You post is a refreshing
change from usual unfounded rhetoric I have encountered here. Thank you.
Brian Schmitt
>> Wow, somebody with a sense of humor… <<
Well Brian, its frequently _not_ appreciated. <g>
FWIW I appreciate what appears to be your sincere interest and desire to find
the best 3d app for your needs. Alot of people would have bailed out having
encountered the resistance you've met, but personally I think its a very
healthy dialog. I love 3DS!!! No doubt about it. But for some reason I don't
find your challenging queries disturbing, on the contrary I find them
thoughtful and probing. So I think if you keep at it you'll come to the same
conclusion I have. If not that's o.k. too. The point is you're checking it out,
and that's supposed to be what this place is about. If 3DS can't stand the
scrutiny, then there's obviously a problem. I think it can, and while your
comments about R4 might rattle a few cages, I think R5 will leave no doubt
about the 3DS legacy. And just so you know, 3DS for NT has been in development
for the last 2 and a half years! So its not a question of first to market, but
what will work best on the NT OS. There's no rush. I'd rather stick with DOS
until they get it just they way they want it. I have alot of faith in the Yost
Group's ability to deliver. They always have.
So anyway I welcome your comments as for the most part I've found them quite
objective. And maybe in the process you'll find that special feature that
makes 3DS your app of choice. In the meantime don't be real concerned about
rattling a few cages; 3DS can take it, I promise. <g>
John
>>I think Autodesk got lazy with release 4. It is essentially release 3
>>with a few great plug-ins thrown in.
While I would agree that r4 maybe should have been r3.5, think about this:
Since the majority of r4 features were produced outside the Yost Group, under
the auspices of Autodesk, that means that the YG will have put in almost 2
years of programming on r5! That's twice as much as for r2 or r3. Now granted,
that kind of time is probably needed when doing something as huge as changing
the OS you're writing for, but I'm looking forward to an incredibly stable and
_killer_ new release come the end of the year! I can't even begin to imagine
what Gary has in store for us.
My guess (and that's ALL this is) is that a)they needed more than their usual 1
year for the NT port, and yet they knew that b)they really needed things like
IK in the product to not only keep up with the Jones', but to sate the apetites
of their voracious users. I think it's just unfortunate that the r4 vs r3.5
thing bent so many people out of shape in regard to their expectations.
Dave
Dave
<< just waiting for the PC version of Lightwave to be released and I will buy
3DS eventually
why would you buy 3ds eventually if you are so strong on lightwave?
just curious.
Ed
I will eventually purchase both because they both have their strength AND
weaknesses. I don't believe in limiting my possiblities because of sentimental
feelings about Lightwave or ANY program. I think that pretty much says it all.
Brian Schmitt
>>all the IPAS routines that you would have to purchase to get features that
are in Lightwave right out of the box.<<
As someone who has worked on many 3D packages, including LightWave, I think you
should really take a look at your "out of the box" statement. LW is a terrific
program but to realize it's full power, you have to buy many 3rd party add-ons.
Just flip through any issue of Video Toaster User and look at the ads. In
another message you said 3D Studio is out of your price range. If you can get
the $800 for LW then you should be able to save your money and get 3DS, it's
not THAT much more, ( I shopped around and got one third off list when I got
3DS.) and, you would probably find, as I did, that 3DS makes you much more
productive "Right out of the box". Also, if you're waiting for LW on the PC,
you should know that many of the (necessary) 3rd party add-ons will either not
be available on the PC or sell for much more money than the Amiga version. Some
of the LW developers (ie Positron publishing) have now gone over to the PC
(3DS) camp. (Flogging dead horses isn't good business). You are correct about
"strengths and weaknesses" and having more than one approach to 3D animation is
almost a necessity, but when thinking about LightWave, many people tend to
forget that almost all of the production work done with it is also done with
the Video Toaster. LW unbundled, as powerful a package as it is, is still only
a portion of the Toaster. The video Post function of 3DS alone makes it one of
the most powerful programs available on any platform (I didn't say fastest <g>
) Now that I mentioned "fast"………" Rendering Speed." Period…… I gave
up Impulse's Imagine (as well as LW) for rendering speed as much as any other
reason. On LW, One hour is a reasonable time for a frame rendering, On my P90
running 3DS, the same frame takes about 1 min. Now that is a major difference.(
OK, the glass doesn't look nearly as good, but how often do I render glass? )
One more thing to think about…3D Studio is really a $20,000 program that you
are permitted to buy only as much as you want or need and get it little by
little if that's what you want. I'm glad that they didn't include a lot of IPAS
(Ok I'll try to start calling them "Plug-Ins" but it wont be easy <G> ) and
raise the basic selling price.
I'm glad you are a 3DS user. I hope you can afford to buy it someday to
"complement" LightWave. You may eventually find out what were all on about.
Nice ranting at you
David
BTW I"d like see some of your work, what do you do?
Bye
You do raise some good points but as I am used to using lens effects all the
time such as lensflare and DOF to render comparable animations on 3DS would
cost me another $1000 for the IPAS suite. As far as people using Lightwave on
the Toaster, they are exactly the same prduct. Nobody using it for professional
work would ever subject their
beautiful pictures to the cheesy wipes and fades on the Toaster, not to mention
the Toaster is composite only. Render speed is something niether you or I can
comment on for about another week as I havn't seen the latest beta version and
the render engine is supposed to be much improved. Refraction is not something
I use very often but it is certainly nice to have and I have used it on a
couple of animations that I wouldn't have been able to do with a work-around. I
think this kind of point counter-point is great. It really gets my juices
flowing!! Regards.
Brian Schmitt
Brian
>> I have a Pentium computer that has PAR installed just waiting for the PC
version of Lightwave to be released<<
What are you waiting for? Lightwave as already been released for PC's.
Do you know this for a fact? I have called dealers and they say that the
shpping date is April 7th. What is your source? Regards.
Brian Schmitt
Thanks for the info
Bill
Francis is doing a TV version of "The Conversation"? Whoa! (very cool)
I could add a couple of things to that list: TV: "Mad About You" and "Saturday
Night Live" (ugh) Sony Pictures has too many 3DS film projects in the pipeline
for me to remember them all.
– G
I can't help but feel that my statements have been misunderstood. I think the
Yost people have done a TERRIFIC job with 3D Studio! It is a very powerful
package. I am just
sick of seeing all the Lightwave-bashing on this forum and others. The only
negative thing I had to say about 3D Studio was that it is out of my price
point. I understand that
$3000 isn't alot to spend on a professional 3D package but I am not a
professional, just somebody that has been studying CGI for my own enjoyment. I
will do this for a living eventually and then I will be able to justify 3DS's
cost. In the mean time I am learning as much as I possibly can about this
medium until I feel my skills are a cut most of the stuff I see saturating the
industry. Regards.
Brian Schmitt
>>sick of seeing all the Lightwave-bashing
PMJI, but I got to at this point; I really have not see too much
Lightwave-bashing on this forum, at least not to the extent I see (and have
been subjected to) 3ds-bashing from the Lightwave camp. It's almost amusing to
see the look on there faces when I say I've used both and prefer 3ds; they tend
to look at me as if I was brain damaged. _For_me_, 3ds is more of a bargain at
its higher price plus IPAS cost because of the time savings I've realised
working with 3ds (and I'm not refering only to render times; I tend to complete
projects 3*quicker w/3ds and the completed projects were of a higher quality
than similar Lightwave projects (the benchmarkings occured back when I had real
access to both; I was more productive in 3 weeks w/3ds than I was in 6 months
w/Lightwave (machines were fairly equivelent; 386-40, accellerated '30);
infact, my first 3ds animation got me my current job). You're correct in saying
that each package has it's strengths/weaknesses; in fact, Lightwave would be my
first choice if 3ds didn't work so much better for me. I just don't see the
Lightwave-bashing you're referring to (and I don't consider the responses in
this thread 'bashing'). I agree it'll be interesting to see what effect
Lightwave will have on the market.
John Stetzer
JWS
PS Sorry if this sounds like I'm venting.
Venting can be healthy:)
Brian Schmitt
>>Venting can be healthy:)
:^). Oh, and…
>>the time such as lensflare and DOF to render comparable animations on 3DS
would cost me another $1000 for the IPAS suite
Actually, it would only cost you $295 for LensFX. There are still some issues
that need to be resolved w/LensFX, but you have a lot more more control and
flexability in setting up your flares; plus you can really design your own
flares w/quite a bit of exactness (I'm still trying to find a place to use the
triple cat's eye flare I designed_somewhere_;^) and get away from the
'Photoshop' look of Lightwave's flares. And, because the DOF is not involved in
the actual scene rendering itself (it's a post process), it renders very
quickly.
John Stetzer
JWS
I am sorry but I meant to include ray-tracing to the DOF and lens-flare
options. Last time I checked (about 1 month ago) the ray-tracing module (if I
understand correctly it doesn't even run under 3DS, therefore is not useable
with scenes that use IPAS routines) was selling for $995 and LensFX was $495. I
have never seen any 3D Studio DOF effects so I can not comment on their
quality. Does it use z-buffer information to calculate focus depths? I would
think that a video post DOF would definately be much quicker than Lightwaves,
so you have me there. Regards.
Brian Schmitt
>>I meant to include ray-tracing
Ah, ok. A month ago it was on special for I believe $500 or $600. Don't know
about now.
>>scenes that use IPAS routines
Currently true; I understand they are working on this.
>>so I can not comment on their quality
I believe they have a jpg on ASOFT that has an example of DOF called STILL.JPG
(137k).
>>Does it use z-buffer information to calculate focus depths?
Yes.
John Stetzer
JWS
John: you didnt sound like you were venting. Good post, saved me some typing. I
remember most of the yelling that went on between lightwave and 3-DS was back
at 3-DS 2.01a. Now, at 4.0 sitting on the brink of 5.0, there's not much
yelling left (ALBEIT these plug-ins are costing me more than a muffler, and my
brain is beginning to ooze in an unsightly way from what I believe is referred
to as pre-frontal. Which brings me to your comment about being looked at as if
you were brain damaged (3-DS USER = Brain Damaged)<VBG> Jeffrey
>>you didnt sound like you were venting
I guess it depends on what end one the 'vent' one is on ;^).
>>(3-DS USER = Brain Damaged)<VBG>
No, no; to borrow a phrase from G, we're just slightly mutated ;^).
John Stetzer
JWS
John: <slightly mutated> damage and mutation are inextricably linked (:-\/
Jeffrey
>PMJI, but I got to at this point; I really have not see too much
Lightwave-bashing on this forum, at least not to the extent I see (and >have
been subjected to) 3ds-bashing from the Lightwave camp. It's almost amusing to
see the look on there faces when I say I've >used both and prefer 3ds; they
tend to look at me as if I was brain damaged. _For_me_, 3ds is more of a
bargain at its higher price >plus IPAS cost because of the time savings I've
realised working with 3ds (and I'm not refering only to render times; I tend to
>complete projects 3*quicker w/3ds and the completed projects were of a higher
quality than similar Lightwave projects (the >benchmarkings occured back when I
had real access to both; I was more productive in 3 weeks w/3ds than I was in 6
months >w/Lightwave (machines were fairly equivelent; 386-40, accellerated
'30); infact, my first 3ds animation got me my current job). >You're correct in
saying that each package has it's strengths/weaknesses; in fact, Lightwave
would be my first choice if 3ds didn't >work so much better for me. I just
don't see the Lightwave-bashing you're referring to (and I don't consider the
responses in this >thread 'bashing'). I agree it'll be interesting to see what
effect Lightwave will have on the market.
>
>John Stetzer
>JWS
>PS Sorry if this sounds like I'm venting.
<<applause>>
PMJI, but you took the words right out of my mouth.
I had been using Lightwave for 3 years when I decided to purchase 3D Studio. I
did so because I rendered a relatively simple animation on a very fast Amiga
with Lightwave. The animation had no shadows or reflections. Nevertheless,
because of the "huge" number of polygons in the scene (less than the average
quality 3DS object) and 8 light sources this 28 second animation took 14 days
of non-stop rendering to complete! That scared the **** out of me! Here's what
happened after I got 3DS:
– I immediately got a high profile client who I would not be able to get with
Lightwave. I rendered a demo animation in a couple of hours and got the job.
I made more money with this first 3DS animation than I had made with Lightwave
in 3 years.
– 3D Studio's speed allowed me to do more animations in 6 months than I had
done with Lightwave in 3 years.
– As a user I was very pleased with Autodesk. Newtek sucked!
– I rerendered most of my old Lightwave animations in 3DS. My demo reel looked
a lot better!
BTW, it is never easy to abandon a software you have been familiar with for 3
years and start from scratch on a new one. But the transition to 3D Studio was
relatively easy. One of the things that surprised me was that while 3DS'
interface is not as flashy as Lightwave's (with it's perspective grids, 3D
buttons, interactive camera view) it is a lot easier and faster to work with
after the first few hours. When I went back to Lightwave I found it very
cumbersome and unintuitive. To this day I get a kick out of Lightwave users who
say that 3D Studio's interface "suck".
I also experience the "brain damage" look you mentioned above. As a long time
Amiga user I am very familiar with the sad attitude most Amiga (including
Lightwave) users have. They see their computers not as the tool it is, but as a
religious icon. I myself beieve in being realistic. I bought a PC just because
of 3DS. Now there is better software for the PC than there is for the Amiga and
I use it more because of that. I don't own a Mac, but the day I see a reason
for it I certainly will. Computers are nothing but tools. And, most important
of all, they are as good as the software that they run. Thanks to 3D Studio,
PCs are now as good as SGIs for 3D work.
After years of loud PC bashing the Amiga community is quietly purchasing PCs to
run the old Amiga software that is being converted to this platform. Suddenly
it is not the PC that is that bad. Now it's the software that makes it so good
that is the new scapegoat 😉
Thanks for sharing your experiences; nice to know that at least someone else
has had similar experiences :^).
>>Computers are nothing but tools.
Truer words I have not heard in a_long_time. TTYL…
John Stetzer
JWS
<<<computers are nothing but tools>>> YICKS! You mean I have been worshiping
tools? Bowing down to my capuccino maker, and expressing warmth towards all 5
modules of 3-DS… you guys are cold (:-0 jeffrey
>>you guys are cold (:-0
?????
John Stetzer
JWS
>>?????????<< shhhhhhhhhhh – I'm praying to my network and coffee maker.
Jeffrey
Gary:
>> Francis is doing a TV version of "The Conversation"? Whoa! (very cool)
Yup, in fact a few guys from my office are in San Fran this week for the
filming!
IMHO, it is a good update on the original, and the script actually makes sense!
They did a good job on it. The first show has a similar premise to the
original, high tech dude eavesdrops on a conversation, and … (you'll have to
see it, I don't want to spoil it for you!) <bg>
Greg Pyros
Considering "Conv" is cone of my favorite Coppola films, the show has to fill
some pretty big shoes. Ought to be interesting…
– G
Gary:
>> Considering "Conv" is cone of my favorite Coppola films, the show has to
>> fill some pretty big shoes.
We have the original here on laser disk and have played it many late nights
over pizza while working on the project!
It's fun watching Gene Hackman with those three old tape decks while working on
a much more sophisticated system (in 3DS – it really doesn't exist yet!)
And seeing where some of those actors with the smaller parts have gone now –
Teri Garr, Cindy Williams, Harrison Ford, and an uncredited Robert Duvall.
Greg Pyros
The cancelled show "Viper" also used 3ds. They talked about it in the back of
a "Digital Video".
Greg,
Can you elaborate on this!? It's one of my FAVE films and is a hidden gem.
Please, tell me that they got Gene Hackman for it again……
>> TV:
Francis Ford Coppola's "The Conversation" <<
If your so "hell" (quoting you) bent on Lightwave why are you reading
OUR mail?
Some kind of virtual spy? <BG> from ear to ear!
I am no longer replying to the Lightwave/3DS debate. BTW I am also hell-bent
on 3D Studio.
Brian Schmitt
Nice to see you ARE open minded after all. I think we all realize that
no ONE program does it all.
-Lee
p.s. But 3DS comes closer than most. <BG>
Does Lightwave have anything like IPAS?
Brian:
I'm not very informed on this software, This comes from another guy that I
talked
to, this is why i'm asking questions, He's got me confused
Bill
Brian,
>> What in the hell are you talking about? <<
wow! I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. Sorry, I must've been smoking
crack when I said that.
Actually, you've received some excellent answers from others. But from the
point of view of somebody looking to make a career choice Gary's percentages
speak the most volumes (60% of all professional desktop, 80% of 3d on the PC
platform).
thanks for your patience and understanding <g>.
The figures comparing 3DS market share in the PC market to Lightwaves is stupid
since Lightwave will not exist in the PC market for about another week. Like I
said give it
three weeks and we'll see how Lightwave does. I am not a fortune teller and am
not predicting that Lightwave will knock 3DS out of it's market share…but
then again I don't know that Lightwave won't be the best selling 3D package
for the PC. I think one thing is being overlooked here and that is that
Lightwave will be available on more powerful computers with more powerful op
systems that 3DS running on Intel machines in DOS. There are a growing number
of people buying DEC Alpha machines that Autodesk seems to have overlooked.
Lightwave will have a definitive head start there. Don't take NewTek lightly,
they have done some amazing things, and I don't think 3D would be enjoying the
popularity it is now without the Toaster. The debate concerning this statement
is likely to be rather heated, but take a look at the facts. The industry hit
critical mass because of the Toaster.
Brian Schmitt
Hello there…
Thanks for stirring things up, but this thread has gotten way off the purpose
of what this forum is about… supporting folks using 3DS.
It's pointless to escalate this discussion any further, so please do me a big
favor and, if you'd like to contribute to the forum, contribute in a
constructive way.
– G
>It's pointless to escalate this discussion any further, so please do me a big
favor and, if you'd like to contribute to the forum, contribute in a
constructive way.
– G
I thought I was being constructive. I agree that it has gotten out of hand.
Consider it finished.
Brian Schmitt
Brian: <3-DS running on Intel Machines in DOS> 3-DS R5 = NT = Jeffrey
I know several people who will use both 3DS and Lightwave. Please, I have been
asked to stop the LightWave/3DS debate. This is all I will say on the matter.
Brian Schmitt
Brian,
>> Please, I have been asked to stop the LightWave/3DS debate. <<
you got the wrong guy. I don't recall mentioning anything on this subject for
about 5 days.
I am sorry. I just replied to a post.
Brian Schmitt