#3D Studio & NT
38 messages in this thread
I am thinking of switching to Windows NT Workstation 3.5. Will
3D Studio Release 3.0 or 4.0 work under NT Workstation 3.5?
Thanks for the help!
Matt
No it won't Matt.
However, 3DSr5 is being written as a native NT app. Maybe a dual-boot solution
will do you for a while?
-Alan
Alan:
Thanks for the info. It appears that I will end up waiting for R5 before I
upgrade. NT will probably wait as well.
Matt
Will there be a Win95 version too. If not, why wouldn't there be?
– Chris Yanchar
Do you mean a Win95 version of 3DSr5?
Chris, as I have no more idea of exactly what Adesk will do than anyone else
around here, most of this is purely speculation, but I'll take a shot at it
anyway.
First of all, the released news is simple. 3DSr5 has been announced as a native
NT app. There has been absolutely no mention of a Win95 version. As I have
never heard of the Yost group developing two different versions of 3DS for
simultaneous release, this gives you a clue as to what they are working on.
Technically speaking, Win 95 is pretty much just a glossed-over Win31 and DOS
with less emphasis on the DOS, and more on the Windows. I feel it is a stepping
stone being used by MS to slowly bring the bulk of their users (LOTS of casual
users, hobbyists, and users of office-oriented apps that don't neccesarily need
a full 32-bit OS right now) into the world of true 32-bit computing. NT, on the
other hand, is a completely different, built-from-the-ground-up 32-bit OS that
is capable of allowing dedicated developers like Yost Group to program power,
features, and functionality into their apps like never before. More and more, I
think you'll see authors of powerful graphics programs developing native NT
versions of their apps.
As Win95 will just not have the power or flexibility of NT, and we know that
Gary & Co. have always strived to develop the very best 3D tools they can given
the current technology, it is probably a safe bet that r5 will be strickly a
native NT app. Any further development (hopefully) with probably go to porting
the NT code to fast, inexpensive processors like the DEC Alpha/AXP to bring
true workstation speed and power to the 3D desktop, at a fraction of the cost.
Hope this has some meaning for you,
-Alan
Alan,
Is it true that NT takes advantage of dual processor systems?
– Steve Ormonde
Sure does, Steve.
NT Workstation is limited to 2-processor support, while Advanced Server will
support up to 4 processors.
-Alan
Alan:
True, NT Workstation supports dual processors, but I understood NT Server to
support up to 16 processors. Good luck finding such a machine though.
NT Server is also optimized for (what else?) providing services. Also, NT
Workstation on a dual processor machine will *not* generally halve processing
time…this depends on how the program was coded (among other things).
JSH
Hmmm…all I can tell ya Jeff, is my copy of NTAS documented the 4 processor
support. I'm sure there could be (and will be) much more to it, though.
Your comment regarding the amount of increase in computing speed and power with
more than one processor is correct (although I'm not sure why you mentioned it,
as this issue wasn't part of the original thread). As the CPU of a PC depends
on many resources in the computer to operate, the CPUs in multi-processor
machines will have to share these resources, making a 100% jump in performance
per processor impossible no matter how the app is coded.
However, as things shake out here in the next year or so, it sure would be
great to vastly improve the performance of your machine merely by adding
another (hopefully fairly in-expensive by then) processor!
On to the future…<g> (that's a grin 'cause it looks bright!)
-Alan
So the next Intel system we buy should be a dual Pentium. Then again, maybe it
should be a DEC Alpha… I guess we'll have to wait and see what R5 supports.
Thanks Alan!
BTW, I'm still waiting to test drive that car of yours on the Ortegas! <G>
– Steve Ormonde
Alan,
We have been running Win95 for a few weeks now. To call it a glossed over Win
3.1 is completely wrong. It is a MAJOR change! For those power Windows users
out there, it will take some getting used to. (The interface is very
different.) It also is a hell of a lot faster and more stable. (Even as a Beta
release.) If something crashes, the operating system remains in tact. We have
also been able to run 3D Studio on it. (It took a little bit of tweeking with
the DOS setttings.) We were able to switch back and forth from 3DS to Photoshop
and back for creating maps without having to shut down either program. Is it
the best thing since apple pie? Well my Grandma makes some pretty good apple
pie! 🙂 But as I overheard someone at COMDEX say "Win 95 sucks less!" It was
also a dream come true to set up. Something I couldn't say about our
experiences with setting up NT. (By the way, Microsoft charges $150 a pop to
talk to their people about Win NT problems!)
Andrew
Graphic Alchemy Interactive, Inc.
I guess I'll just have to take your word for it, Andrew, as I have not (and
most likely will not) run the OS myself. It all really depends on how things
shake out between now and the time 3DS/NT ships. I will say, however, that the
information I relayed here came directly from VERY knowlegable sources (I'm not
gonna drop any names here) who more than likely know more about Win95 than 90%
of the members of this forum collectively. So I'm gonna take their word for it,
as they have been right 100% of the time on matters such as these many, many
times in the past.
This isn't to say that Win95 will not be a logical OS choice for many folks in
the future, perhaps myself included. My statements merely reflected what the OS
is reportedly *based* on and how it is being marketed by MS, not neccesarily
what it looks like, acts like, or works like.
FYI, I run 3DS, Corel Draw, PhotoShop, Elastic Reality, and other Windows and
DOS-based programs every day, all day, often at the same time in Win31 with
absolutely no problems, and have been for many, many months. So I guess you
could say that my Win31 apple pie has been tasting pretty good over here for
quite some time now!<g>. Certainly, if I were having a hard time with these
issues (as you have, perhaps?) I would be quite happy if Win95 allowed
everything to work together for me.
Are you comparing Win95 with NT? I can tell you that there is no comparison.
Period. Like any new OS or application, there are going to be growing pains,
but anyone who has been in this business for any length of time can tell you
that this is commonplace, and I sincerely hope that MS stays on top of these
issues.
Finally, let me say that I sincerely hope that your experience with Win95 is a
positive and productive one, and please continue to keep the forum posted with
any helpful information you may uncover concerning it's relationship(s) with
3DS, and/or associated hardware/software issues. I know I would appreciate it
very much!
-Alan
Alan,
What excites me the most with Win95 is not the fact that I can run 3D Studio
under it, but that Win 95 opens up the possibility to do a lot more with
multimedia. My studios main focus is interactive animations and graphics for
CD-ROMs and touch screen kiosks. Win95 will be the OS that will be run by the
masses. That I am sure of. You can do stuff under Win 95 that was only
possible with DOS. Windows is a much better enviroment to work in though
because you don't have to worry about the hardware like you do in DOS. (I have
to reconfigure my system files every time I want to run a game like Seventh
Guest or any of the other DOS based programs that are heavy on the machine.)
As far as the user interface, the changes to Win95 over Win NT and Win 3.1 is
dramatic. I like it a lot more. I am willing to bet that the next release of
NT will probably be more Win 95 like in its feel though.
The major advantage of NT of course is that it does support multiple processors
and processors other than Intel. But the intel PC world is most likely going to
be run by Win 95.
Andrew
I am BETA testing WIN95 at work and Also running WINNT on the same system,as
well as on my ALPHA machine at home. Win95 is way better than 3X but in order
to get the best results in 3DS4 I will always have to restart in DOS mode. NT
is a more reliable and definitly the OS of the future and when R5 comes out as
well as Softimage and other products you will see more people skip Win95 and go
to NT.
WILL
Will,
We did some test race renders against a machine running Win 95 and one just
running DOS 6.22. The difference was only about 10 seconds on a complex scene.
What have you been finding? I was impressed. On the Win 95 system we were not
rebooting into a Dos mode but using a dos window. It took some tweeking to get
the memory configuration just right. Both machines were Pentium 90 with 16MB.
Andrew
Could you tell what tweakings you used to run 3DS from WIN 95.. I was able to
get it to work by just adding the pharlap.386 device but I did encounter
numerous memory allocation errors and other strange errors. Your info would be
appreciated. Thanks
Steve,
I am not at my office. But I will check our settings on Win 95 and post them.
Andrew
I found it giving me problems while trying to run the KPT and Lenzfx demo
ipas's because they needed high resolution.(800×600 16.7) That's were it
would crash on me. in a 256 color set up it was ok. The machine I use at work
is a Dx66 16MB PC. I just bought an alpha 233 for home and hope that R5 will
support it if not it looks like Lightwave or Animation Master for me.
Will
Hi Andrew,
good tests, — and 3ds needs 100% of the cpu when rendering, so what is the
use of using 3ds in using Windows really ?, that is what we are asking
ourselves here.
bye for now
Mark.
Mark,
The real use is being able to quickly shell out to say Photoshop to alter that
map a little then pop back into 3D Studio to render it to see how it looks. Or
shell out from an authoring enviroment to 3D Studio to update an image you
need. Or maybe you want to set an alarm clock in windows to tell you to go
home. My wife found this was usefull!! 🙂 The main thing is that it is a
pain having to start and stop an operating system.
Andrew
Hi Alan,
PMJI, but could you comment a little about how you got 3DS running under Win
3.xx ? I haven't tried before, but was about to. I can imagine some problems,
though.
Thanks,
BILL
Hi Bill,
The truth is, I simply followed the directions in the docs, and it worked
perfectly, if not extremely slow, way-back-when on a 486/66. It was only when I
got performance comparable to DOS using a Pentium that I started using the
Windows configuration on a daily basis.
-Alan
Thanks Alan, I'll follow the directions.
BILL
Hey Alan!
I finally got my PC running CIS, so I'll hanging around here more often. I got
your post about week or so ago about you comming up to this neck of the woods,
did you get my post back?
So how's going down there? Let me know what's up with you.
Take care,
Greg
Great to hear, Greg!
See your Email…
-Alan
hi Alan,
do you consider Elastic Reality to be the best morf program on the market ???
I just bought a new product called :SNAPPY here is Canada, — it is a small box
that connects to your parallel port and captures pretty amazing video shots, or
snaps. With it came a morph program just called morph which is pretty easy to
use, and on my first try, I made a very good morf just be following the manual
that comes with Snappy. I've seen Elastic Reality, I really like all of the
different fade options available with that program, pretty nice!
Mark.
Hi Mark,
":SNAPPY", eh? Can't say as I've ever heard of that one. I hope it works well
for you.
As for ER comparisons, I couldn't really comment directly as I've only used ER
myself. However, I can say that ER is a wonderful product with gobs of
capabilities concerning dynamic morphing, compositing, and transition effects
with Transjammer, and it seems to be a favourite out there with the high-end
crowd. So it's probably a safe bet for many of your morphing needs.
Maybe someone else out there has some direct A/B experience.
-Alan
PMJI, Alan, but does the fact that ER not render fields bother you at all? I
posted a message for them on their forum here asking for that capability, and
they even acted surprised that anyone wanted that.
My experience with 3DS has spoiled me for rendering only in fields. I do like
ER (both the program and the TV show) but do wish it could do fields.
Mike
PMJI, what you might be able to do is render from ER in frames, make an ifl,
render the ifl as a background in VP using fields. Does that do the trick?
TedB
-Ted Boardman
!^NavFont01F0007MGHHG81D4ED
>> render from ER in frames, make an ifl, render the ifl as a background
>> in VP using fields.
Hi Ted!
PMJI too. What you would have to do is render from ER at double the length.
Then go into 3ds VP and "manually" composite the fields using an IFL and a
matte for even fields and it's negative for odd fields. Not elegant but very
functional.
– Dave
Good point, Mike.
As I have only used it for game stuff, I haven't noticed the lack of field
remdering capabilies. I certainly understand what you mean by being spoiled by
the smooth movement inherent in field-rendered animation. I'm wondering how the
high-end TV folks have been dealing with that. Probably the same way we would:
by rendering out twice as many frames needed for the shot and using a routine
to "fieldify" (to use GregP's term) them before going to video. I'll have to
ask them about this.
-Alan
Alan:
>> by rendering out twice as many frames needed for the shot and using a
>> routine to "fieldify" (to use GregP's term) them before going to video.
I actually don't remember if it was me or Gus who came up with the term. I'll
just say "we"! It was coined back when "we" wrote the DOS program to take
VistaPro files rendered at twice the length and add "fields" to them. Worked
great, should probably work for ER, also – I'll have to dig it up and try it
sometime!
Greg Pyros
Hi Alan,
thanks very much for the info, the morf prg I'm using is from 1993, and I know
ER is pretty new, here in Montreal anyway,
anyway, thanks again
Mark.
You're welcome, Mark.
-Alan
Matt,
<<Will 3D Studio Release 3.0 or 4.0 work under NT Workstation 3.5?>>
No, but the upcoming Release 5 will run under NT. It should be available late
this year.
-Kyle
Kyle:
Thanks for the info. I'll save my pennies and upgrade my PC to NT and R5
around the same time. Good vacation project!
Matt
You'll have to configure your NT box for a dual boot to run the current DOS
version of 3D Studio.
– Phil
Phillip:
Thanks for the answer. I'll probably wait and upgrade my system to NT and R5
around the same time. Good vacation project.
Matt