#1M Agnus Availability
70 messages in this thread
Now here's an interesting rumor…
I was at an Amiga dealer in Pittsburgh, PA today and they told me that their
CBM rep. told them that the first run of the 1M Agnus chip consisted of, get
this, *100* chips !!!!!! Has anyone else heard this or something to the
contrary. I figure this number might *just* satisfy the needs for developers.
What about the rest of us ??? !!!! I'd be interested in any additional info.
Kevin
Kevin,
Presuming he means production run, then WRONG. Production runs are in
the thousands. Look at it this way…all the new Amiga's have the 1 Meg Agnus
in them…there's 900 dealers across the US so if each dealer only sold an
Amiga every other day…that'd still be 450 a day going out the door.
That's just the US, it's only 30% of the Amiga market…so add in the
other 70% and you end up with 1500 per day being sold or 45,000 per month. See
what I'm saying…100 chips would be about an hour's worth of sales…hardly
likely.
No…more than likely, the first run was closer to 100,000 chips. And
there would be continuing runs…that 100,000 would only last 2 months if you
add in replacement stocks.
Don
Don,
Those were my thoughts also, but it sounded just dumb enough to be true of
beloved CBM. This was also tempered with my well developed sense of paranoia
(defined as "a well developed understanding of the basic nature of the
universe") and rapid desire for a 1M Agnus (along with about a dozen other and
more expensive hardware goodies). I wan't intending to slight developers or
imply that they shouldn't have the first run; though I guess it may have come
across that way. My apologies to all. Anyway, I anxiously await that dealer's
receipt of a new shipment of Agnes (Agnuses ???). How tough *is* the
installation anyway ??? Could someone who used to assemble HAM radio eqpt.
(like me!) do the job ??? Or is it REALLY a dealer installation ???? Anyway,
thanks to you and all others for debunking the myth and jolting me into
realizing that sometimes the world *isn't* always more bizarre than can be
imagined…(e.g. 100 chip runs).
Kevin
Kevin,
If you have the proper chip puller (about $15 or so), it's relatively
easy to change. Without that chip puller (designed for the square chips) you
can VERY easily break things badly.
Don
Additionally, you'll need to know which solder pads to sever and which jumpers
to throw. Don't do it if you're not COMPLETELY sure you have all the info
ahead of time. andre
Dear Kevin,
The reason Commodore only produced 100 chips is that it was a pilot run.
When you're not sure that the silicon works, you don't make a hundred thousand
of them. If it does work, next week you can make a hundred thousand.
We do not work for Commodore. We do not know that this is their reason.
It is, however, industry practice.
Gerry,
Quite reasonable. The understanding I got from the tech was that that was the
real run. From the rest of this run I guess that's not the case (thank
heavens). It did seem almost dumb enough to be true though. Thanks for the
thoughts…
Kevin
It was the real run, I think. But several thousand are also going into all
A2500s, A2000HDs, A2000s, and so forth. With that you're running out of
thousands of chips. Just a basic allocation exercise.
andre
So Andre,
If the 100 are spares and the thousands are going into new machines, is there
some kind of estimate as to when the average Joe off the street who hasn't
dropped lots of bucks at his dealer or (as is my case) lost the dealer where he
dropped lots of bucks will be able to get one. Is my guesstimate of next
summer reasonable ???? This may almost have me pi**ed enough to write to CBM;
not that it would matter. Again, I realize that it's not your fault and you're
just trying to be helpful; which is appreciated.
Kevin
Try Merical Computers and Software in Ohio. $112 in stock.
Regards,
Paul
Paul,
Thanks for the suggestion, but one small point, WHERE in Ohio. I don't think I
can call directory info. and ask for "Merical Computers and Software in Ohio".
Further information will be greeted with profuse thanks. Thanks.
Kevin
1-513-435-5227
Regards,
Paul
Like I said elsewhere, our Far East brothers are shoveling the sand as fast as
they can. I estimate that we will have things under better control in about a
month, estimated. I have no hard facts to prove this.
All I do know right now is that we ordered 3000 and got 100. They gave us what
they could, what was fair. Others made requests too.
Sorry that the truth is not nice, but at least I feel that I should give you
the truth. andre
Andre, how about building some facilities up here – we got lots of sand. Hmmm
Maybe I will go build my own silicon refinery! <GRIN>
73, Kelly
Gerry is correct, it appears to be both industry (and thank god that on this
one they follow it) and CBM's approach. Indeed, while the silicon is still
"hot off the presses" there is a good deal of testing that goes on. One rumor
has been that Mostek, CBM's upriver subsidiary that designs and mfrs the chips
(such as Gary, Agnus, Denise and Paula) has been having poorer than standard
returns on their silicon. This testing is an absolute necessity if that's
truly the case.
–Gabe
Kevin,
That is an interesting rumor, but I doubt its validity. I just purchased
(and had installed) a 1-meg Obese one, purchased through standard retail
channels. No "special deals only for developers" – just 'walked-in-off-the
street'. Supplies are probably a little tight, but they are available. A
production run of 100 wouldn't get any into normal distribution channels, no?
…BobR
Bob,
Congrats on your rotund one. So tell me, is it *really* great ??? As I've
asked elsewhere here, is this really and truly a dealer or hardware wizard
installation ??? I'd rather not wait for my nearest authorized service center
to get their next shipment and I don't fancy sending my Amy off through the
Post Orifice.
Kevin
Kevin,
From everything I've read, this is not a "simple" installation. Personally,
I'm a candy-* when it comes to hardware, so I let my dealer's tech install it.
The peace-of-mind was important to me. I also managed to work out the timing
so I could have it done while I was out of town anyway. Didn't lose any time
with the machine.
As far as the benefits go, it is nice not having to think about CHIP memory
usage as much while I'm working. The other day, I needed to play around with
some sampled sounds, using software that insisted that the samples be in CHIP.
I didn't even think about it at first, but I was working with 800K samples
<grin>. Guess I couldn't have done that before.
All in all, it was worth the cost of the upgrade (IMHO).
Hope this helps….BobR
BTW Bob, how much was the upgrade??
I still haven't seen any concrete figures yet, and really am interested in
what the street price for the upgrade is…
Barry
Barry,
Sorry, I can't really say what I paid (I made a "deal"). Only "street
price" that I've heard was a price quoted on a different net, which was $175.
That works out to $130 for the chip, plus 1 hour of the service tech's time (@
$45 per). That seems a little high to me, but within the realm of reason. Of
course, your milage may vary.
Hope this helps….BobR
Understandable….
Thanks for the ballpark figures…. hopefully (with a little luck) I will
be able to do about the same thing, and my cost won't be too unreasonable.
Barry
I paid $112.50 from Miracle Computers & Software.
Regards,
Paul
Thanks for the info….
Barry
Bob,
Gee, I'm jealous. Now all I need is for the place I'm dealing with now to get
enough so'z I can get one. Being a new customer with this dealer, I'm sure I'm
WAY down on the list. I am SOOOOOO bummed my local dealer closed down. I gave
THEM lot's of my hard earned dollars, and I'm SURE I would have been at the top
of THEIR list. …sigh… life's not fair….
Thanks for the info.
Kevin
Kevin,
While I would advise against doing the installation yourself, the entire
job should be able to be done in under an hour. Having done the job already, I
know that I could do it in 15 minutes. Considering that this type of thing is
what I do for a living, any compentent tech should find an hour more than
sufficient time.
Hmmm, I wonder if CBM is sending installation directions with the chips?
Most dealers are getting them through parts, who normally don't send anything
except the parts themselves. And the installation is more than just replacing
the chip.
-Dean
Dean,
My dealer's tech didn't get any instructions from CBM for the install. He
had to make a number of phone calls before he could get anything "official".
Typical, no?
…BobR
Bob,
Actually it's perfectly reasonable. Your dealer, and everybody else, who
got the 1Meg Agnus purchaced them through Parts. (basicly the back door, since
the part isn't officially released) It's assumed (rightly in my opinion) that
if you order from Parts, you know what to do with them when you get them. CBM
or any other company isn't going to distribute information on how to install a
part that isn't released.
-Dean
Dean,
Why do you say the 1-meg Agnus isn't released? If its available from
Commodore through normal channels, to my way of thinking, that means it is
released. What other distinctions do you have in mind?
…BobR
Bob,
Before 1.3 was officially released, a few A2000's were shipped with 1.3
ROM's installed. This was due to the fact that CBM had run out of 1.2 ROM's.
Another reason for doing this deliberatly, is to have all (most) new machines
in the warehouses already being shipped with the new part before releasing that
part as an upgrade option.
Where you, and others got your 1Meg Agnus is from CBM Parts, as a repair
item. That is the reason for only 100 pieces being available. It wouldn't make
much sense to ship a machine that you couldn't get repair parts for.
-Dean
Dean, at least some people are able to order them thru CBM parts! Not up here
in Canada. I gave my dealer the CBM part number, and he was told the part was
unavailable. He even went as far to ask me to get him a copy of the chip!
Okay, now where can I order some chips?!?!?
And what do you mean they are closed for the _whatever this weekend is of
yours_ long weekend!
73, Kelly
Kelly,
All I know is that some dealers have called CBM Parts and ordered the
Obese Agnus. I do know that they were on backorder, so if demand is well above
what they believe they can supply, they may be saying that the part is
unavailable.
-Dean
CBM United States <> CBM Canada. They are not the same organization. Other
than by product and name.
andre
Kelly,
Even the Commodore office here in Vancouver can't get the part.
Sincerely, Brian R. Niessen DesignTech Business Systems Inc.
If you want to go through the mail, you can get the part from Commodore US for
US$130.80 + $3 postage to Commodore, Dept C, 1200 Wilson Drive, West Chester,
PA 19380.
In fact, you can get anything (other than PC boards or motherboards) at this
address. Get the part number (it's in the form xxxxxx-xx) and the retail
price, and add $3 for postage. Hope this helps. andre
Dean,
Here in Canada, the OBESE AGNUS is standard issue on the A2500 and A2x00HD
models. The A2000 and 500 are not 1 Meg Agnus.
This is the "official" word from the local Commodore Technical Support person
here at Commodore's Vancouver offices.
Sincerely, Brian R. Niessen DesignTech Business Systems Inc.
Sounds right, Brian. I've seen them (ie: confirmed) in A2500s and A2000HDs.
andre
Any word on their being in new 2000s?
— Ethan
Andre – in ALL 2500s and 2000HDs? Please?
Betty
PS. – welcome back. Nice trip?
In ALL A2000HDs and A2500 currently being shipped. I hope. Trust me. :-*
Supposedly we ran out completely of both stocks and the new ones that came in
were populated with these chips. andre
PS: The trips were both good and bad. Right now I am glad to be back.
Brian,
Yes, but can a dealer call his/her CBM rep and order the Obese Agnus
upgrade kit? Being shipped as part of a complete machine, and being available
as an upgrade package are two completly different beasts, both from
availability and support strndpoints. Again, where people are getting the Obese
Agnus from now is as a REPAIR PART, not through 'normal' CBM sales chanels.
-Dean
I just gave Merical a call and ordered it. The chip arrived two days later.
$112.
Regards,
Paul
Dean,
OK, thanks for the advice. I guess I'll wimp out even if it does mean waiting
what will probably be MONTHS before I get it. .sigh. Well, I was palnning a
vacation in August so maybe the timing WILL work out…
Kevin
The part is shipped with installation directions, and authorized service
centers get documentation and electronic access to the installation notes.
andre
Andre,
Ahh, is the Obese Agnus being sold then as a upgrade option?
-Dean
Dean, why not write up some info on how to do the installation yourself for
those of us who are technically oriented, and maybe you can help us save a
buck…. That is, *if* we can get the parts somewhere….
I would hope that it isn't much more involved than installing the KS1.3
roms, as that really wasn't difficult at all.
Barry
Barry,
I left mail to all today explaining the procedure.
Regards,
Paul
Could you give me the message number, I somehow seemed to have missed the
message !
Thanks!
Barry
Gee … haven't the foggiest. You might try a search from my ppn.
Regards,
Paul
Barry,
The installation requires pulling an 84 pin PLCC. (~1in square chip) It
also requires cutting a trace and on the A2000, moving a jumper. On the A500,
instead of moving the jumper, you need to cut a second trace and solder bridge
two pads together.
This is working from admittedly faulty memory, so give me a day or so to
find my installation directions and I'll put up a more detailed description.
-Dean
Kevin,
That 100 chips is what was allocated to CBM Parts. Other divisions within
CBM have thier own supply, ie. production. Actually the developers had access
to a very limited number of them for awhile, and it was these that was the
origional pilot run. (which included bugs)
-Dean
Dean,
Ah, I see ! Strange how information gets corrupted if you tell enough people.
Also didn't mean to imply that developers shouldn't have "special deals" or
first access. It's nice that the rest of us get to take advantage of their
debugging efforts and it is appreciated.
Kevin
Kevin –
It would not surprise me if the FIRST run of the 1M Agnus was "100" chips. No
chip maker in their right mind ever starts up full fledged production without
running several "pilots" to clear the guns and prove the product. These
"pilots" are always a small number of wafers. My "bona fides"… I work for
Honeywell Solid State Electonics Division. I'll let you guess what we
manufacture.
– Nelson …
Kevin:
Developers have had 1M Agnus chips for many months now, so that could be (the
_first_ run being that small). However, I keep hearing that they are truly
available commercially now, so maybe we're in the second run?
?|^] Ray Lewis
My problem with believing that the new Agnus will be readily available is
that even today the KS1.3 rom is almost unfindable. In fact, I would be willing
to bet that there are no more than 50 across the country available for current
owners to buy and upgrade with.
— Ethan
Ethan,
If you need one, call Michigan Software at (313) 348-4477. As of a
Saturday, they had a couple of them.
-Dean
Ethan,
I guess I'm lucky, I talked to my dealer's tech today, he has several
of each (1.3KS ROM and Obese Agnus).
Don
The developpers might already have their 1Meg agnus chip for a while!?
Pat.
The US Shipment was 100 chips. As of last week we had orders for about 1500
chips, and a shipment coming in for around 3-5000 chips.
Please remember that the United States is not the center of the universe. We
have to share with our friends in Canada, Europe, Australia, Far East… get
the idea? andre
Does that mean that all the new Agnae are manufactured in the U.S. and
shipped from here to Europe, Canada and Austrailia?
— Ethan
They are manufactured in the far east (this does not mean Maine!) and shipped
to the entire universe. Or so it seems. Actually the 100 figure is spare
parts; the rest of the thousands are in the 2000 series. andre
Andre,
Is only Germany producing the obese Aggie? or are the US production facilities
involved, too?
–Gabe
The semiconductor facilities are in Hong Kong or Taiwan, I believe.
I think Germany falls in the Western Bloc, last I checked. Of course, that
could also be Farther East, but I'm rather rusty in Geography. andre
Interesting … my Fat Agnus says "Phillipines" on it.
Regards,
Paul
Andre',
The US *isn't* the center of the universe ????? ;^7
OK, granted, but come on (time out, I know you're not the person to complain to
but I *have* to kvetch at someone, please be patient) guy, ***100 CHIPS*** !!!
They HAVE to be kidding. What, did they think there were lots of people out
here who were going to say "yawn, oh, a 1 Meg graphics chip, ho hum". With
packages out there like S/A 3D et al, DPaint, etc etc etc…??? Well, I guess
CBM marketing called another one right on the nose. Geez this is getting really
annoying/frustrating. (you also have to remember that Americans, like me, are
*into* immediate gratification).
Well let's see, at this rate, I'll be able to get my hands on the Obese Agnus
about the time I can afford the 2620 i.e. sometime next summer. Which is
unfortunate because I can afford the Agnus NOW !!!
Sorry, but in my book, there is NO excuse for a major company to announce a
major hardware improvement without having sufficient supplies to at least come
close to meeting demand. I seriously doubt you would see something like this
in the PC/Mac world (and you should know by now that I don't make such
accusations likely and am VERY fond of the Amiga). I guess I'm just still to
"young" in the Ami community. I imagine most folks with more experience
*expected* something like this.
Well, sorry again to flame at *you*. You've been most gracious and your
presence here is appreciated. Thanks for the info. in any case. I hope there
are no hard feelings. Take care… Kevin
Would you like some examples of parallel announcements that had no supply? How
about the rationing necessary in the early days of Mac IIs, PS/2, 80386, PC AT,
Compaq 286, cabbage patch dolls, Yugos, Pet Rocks, and so forth… When you
make a claim like "I seriously doubt you would see someting like this in the
PC/Mac world" you tend to lose a little credibility in my eyes. Think before
you write! You are insulting the intelligence of all the readers here as well
as your own! I know you are not that short sighted!
Anyway, we (the USA company) requested 3000 spare chips. They sent us 100.
Reality. So bomb the Far East. We are getting more any day; this is not the
final shpment, but they are scooping up the sand as fast as they can.
You want immediate gratification? Well, like the Ginsu commercial [almost]
said: "In Japan, the Hand can be used as a Wife." 🙂 andre
PS: No hard feelings. The doctor recommends something like this to raise my
normally too low blood pressure. 🙂
Why people would want to rush out and get new technology the day it arrives is
beyond me; it usually takes a few months to discover bugs, problems, production
run errors, etc., and you're usually better off waiting a few months until
things stabilize in quantity production. Better off, that is, unless your main
sort of sideline preoccupation is looking for new bugs! steve
Hmmm .. our local dealers only have machines with Fat Agnus chips in them. I
Paul
Well, there's *probably* no problem with the Fatter Agnus chips, but I'd be
happier right now buying a new machine with a standard chip set than one with
the new chips!