#BAD FAITH
16 messages in this thread
[B [B [B [B [B [B [B [B [B [B NewTek
Dear Tekkies;
I bought one of your Video Toasters on March 16 (6 weeks ago) and I have
called your technical support personnel 7 times to try to find out why
LightWave.FP crashes my Amiga 2000 every time the program is accessed. The
standard LightWave version runs just fine. (My FP version of Imagine runs
without any problem.)
I have an Amiga 2000 with a CSA Mega Midget Racer running at 40Mhz with a
50Mhz 68882 FPU and 512K SRAM, 2M of 32-bit ram, and 6M of 16-bit ram.
Your personnel first told me it must be some kind of problem with my
accellerator card. (A call to CSA revealed that they have numerous Mega
Midget Racers in the field running Toasters without any problem.)
Then I was told that I must not have done the installation proceedure
properly. Please do it again.
Next I was told that all I had to do was rename LightWave.FP as LightWave
and visa versa. No luck there. Still crashes.
Next it again had to be an accellerator problem. I'd have to work that out
with CSA, I was told. A long call and a bunch of diagnostics confirmed
that the accellerator was running perfectly.
Next (this is my 6th call to you folks) I was again told that I must have
installed the software improperly. Try again.
Finally I convinced the tech person that it might just be a corrupt version
of LightWave. He finally agreed to drop the program in the mail that day.
That was April 8. I waited. I waited some more. After two weeks I called
again and was told that "Well, I haven't sent it out yet. We had to get
some disks made and that takes a while. Oh, here, I have one on my desk.
I'll get it in the mail today. That was 5 days ago, and guess what?
That's right, still no software.
I've been ill served by other companies (soft and hardware) but I believe
NewTek has redefined "technical service." I'm sorry I invested over $2000
in your product and you can bet that if you don't make a sincere effort
immediately to rectify this situation I'll do my very best to repay you
with BAD PUBLICITY in every venue to which I have access.
Robert,
I have the same accelerator config you have and I experienced the
exact same problem. After a lot of calls to CSA tech support and a call or
2 to NewTek, and replacing the '882, the solution was to clock the 030 at
38 Mhz. It was real strange since each and every other piece of software
that utilises the math co. ran fine with the '030 clocked at 40 Mhz, but
not Lightwave or Modeler. A customer of mine had the same problems also,
and there also seems to be a problem with (at least some) 040 boards and
Lightwave/Modeler. On a similar topic, have you tried either of the 2
mathtrans.library replacements? They do indeed speed up non floating point
operations, and everything seems to run fine, except… you guessed it! The
toaster won't even boot (that darn green screen!!) with either of them. I'm
not pointing any fingers, but there's bad ju-ju going on somewhere.
Mark
Mark, thanks so very much for your reply. It should certainly have been
info tion that NewTek could have provided. I'll try replacing the crystal
with a 38Mhz one and hope that it will work for me as it does for you.
Thanks again, Mark!
So, what's the verdict? Was it NewTek's fault or the maker of your exotic
hardware? Your situation was typical of hardware conflicts on the Amiga:
two manufacturers are at odds because Commodore's specs are constantly
changing and Amigas are constantly changing from production run to
production run. And, again very typically, you were ready to blame one
manufacturer or the other. Unfortunately, it's often very, very difficult
to point fingers like that. Unless you can quote chapter and verse from a
Commodore spec that someone's violated, it's not possible to be sure! When
you find a hardware maker who can state "Company X is violating the timing
framistat window on line A34 of their accelerator", you're on the right
track.
And of course PC users are accostomed to their hardware configurations
being incompatible, so they are more wary about adding things which they
haven't got guarantees in advance of their working together. (how ill
phrased that sounds) Poor mac users now have to think about programs being
"32-bit Clean" cause they now have accelerators. The only Amiga software I
have heard of which wasn't 32 bit clean was MicroSoft's AmigaBASIC. Does
the Toaster work with an AT-Once PC emu lator?
The verdict is that NewTek is guilty of abysmal technical support in my
case. NewTek did not respond to my problem. They made no effort to
discover where the problem actually lay and they did not perform as they
said they would; to wit, they have never sent the Lightwave software which
they have twice (3 weeks ago and again 8 days ago) claimed they were
putting in the mail "that day."
The problem has not been assigned to either the Toaster or to CSA's Mega
Midget Racer. I'm trying to find the problem and get it rectified so I can
run Lightwave.FP. I have a reasonable sounding lead from a message left to
me by another BBSer. When the verdict is in I'll leave word.
I'm still disgusted with NewTek whatever the eventual source of the
problem!
s
Is NewTek really responsible for your hardware problem? From what you say,
yes, they've been deficient in sending that software update. Look at it
from their perspective. Thousands of LightWave users don't have this
problem. You've got unusual hardware. Where's the most likely source of
the problem? The most absurd part of your original message was that you
were ready to "threaten" NewTek by posting your side of the story in any
venue you could. I know that if you were tangling with my company, I'd
think you were being rather unfair. Why didn't you blame your hardware
manufacturer?
John… As you stated, it's very difficult to point a finger when some sort
of incompatability crops up, but when 9 out of 10 pieces of software run on
a particular piece of hardware, you start making assumptions. One of the
things I've noticed is that all to often the mfrs. point at each other as
the source of the trouble and leave the user in the middle, often doing
much of the the intermediate testing, rather than working together to
resolve the conflict. As a dealer, I've acted as 'go-between' on behalf of
a customer and various mfrs. on many occasions, and it often takes many
calls and much needling to get the problem resolved.
Mark
My complaint wasn't that NewTek's Video Toaster was faulty but rather that
they were faulty in providing technical support to resolve where the
problem does lie. With software/hardware having become so complex,
especially regarding the Toaster and accellerator boards surely its to be
expected that problems will crop up. All I'm asking is help in resolving
the problem so I can use the equipment I've paid several thousand dollars
for. I believe that is a reasonable expectation.
Bye the way the Lightwave software has yet to arrive though I've been
assured by yet again another tech support person that it will be shipped
immediately. So now nearly a month before I can resolve whether there is a
problem with the software or if I have a possible problem with the Toaster
or something else in my system. That must seem rather excessive a time
span.
Since posting that message I have developed another, serious problem with
my Toaster, an apparent loss of horizontal sync on all inputs. I called
NewTek, explained the problem, returned the unit at their request, and had
I been at home today would have received the repaired or replace unit
NewTek was very helpful and expeditious with this matter and I applaud them
for it. But I still am no nearer to answering my original dilema.
s
Like most installation software, the Toaster 2.0 install software has
checksums to verify that the files are OK. In fact, I know it has at least
two levels of checksums: one for each disk track since they
"roll-their-own" disk format, and one CRC at the level of the giant LZH
file that comes off those disks. I doubt that your LightWave program is
corrupt.
I've heard they have one-day turn-around on hardware repairs, aka a swap.
It's unfortunate that they didn't send you a set of disks, too. How about
the manufacturer of your accelerator? Does LightWave function if you
remove the accelerator? Have you tried another, different accelerator
card? What other boards are in the computer?
Robert… Have you tried the clock yet? I'm very interested in knowing the
outcome of your problem.
Mark
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to try your suggestion of replacing the
crystal with a slower one to get LightWave to work with the
MegaMidegtRacer. My Toaster went down on me right after getting your
message (an apparent loss of horizontal sync on all inputs) and although I
have purchased some slower crystals I haven't a Toaster. I expect it back
in my hands tomorrow. NewTek was extremely expeditious about
repairing/replacing the unit for me.
Hope that your suggestion works. Will let you know in a day or two.
Incidentally, where did you buy your Toaster? If it was from a local
dealership (I realize not all cities have them, but if you do, you should
see them) then they should be able to provide you with a new copy of
Lightwave, should they not?
It's almost like deja vu. I have a friend who decided that he didn't like
the fact that the local toaster dealer was charging more than a mail order
company was for the toaster. (We live in Canada, btw) He decided to order a
toaster via a US mail order company. When it arrived, the box was damaged
and the disks (three of them, I think) were corrupt. We figure that when
the customs people inspected it, they must have X-rayed it or something.
Who knows.
It took him quite a while to get replacement disks. If he had bought
locally, he would have been able to just walk into the toaster dealership
and get replacements. Further, he is totally frustrated because there is a
fellow who works for the toaster dealer who REALLY knows his stuff. But, he
can't walk in there and talk to him about the toaster, because the manager
knows the whole story of what came down. The manager feels that if he
didn't want to buy the toaster from his store, then he can get his
technical support directly from NewTek.
Buying local from a knowledgeable 'up and running' kind of dealership sure
might seem like it costs more moneywise in the short term, but in the end,
having someone in your city who is capable and feels obligated to help you
because you bought from them, is worth more.
Mail order is for people who need little or no assistance, I guess.
What does this have to do with you? I dunno…just telling a story.
Jim
Jim, I work for a dealership that won't match mail order prices because we
provide top notch service after the sale. What you are saying is
definitely true and I hope that people come to understand …you get what
you pay for…
–JG
Thanks for your story. I did purchase mail order. Both because the money
savings were substantial (heck the tax alone is over $200) and because the
amount of tech support that the local dealers can offer is fairly
insignificant in the case of the more sophisticated hardware. They don't
sell enough of it to know it well enough to help with more than the
simplest problems. Those I can usually deal with myself.
Thanks again for your thought.