#Visual Basic and POV
13 messages in this thread
I just recently started using POV and I find it annoying that it doesn't have a
GUI. I downloaded POVCAD to solve this problem but I don't have Visual Basic.
Where is it? I looked all over for it! Is this the best choice for a GUI for
POV? This is driving me nuts so can anybody help me?
-Vic
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Ah, you young whippersnappers. Got to have a GUI! I remember when we were
just thrilled to have a raytracer… period <g>.
To run POVCAD, you need VBRUN20.ZIP. Don't recall the library, but it's over
in the GRAPHSUP forum. It's a small Visual Basic runtime library that will
work with any VB program.
Soapbox on: You'll be doing yourself a great favor to learn to use POV without
a GUI first. There's still an awful lot that the graphical editors don't yet
do and to get the most mileage, you'll still need to do a fair amount of
handwork. You'll also simply learn to control your tool better. Soapbox off.
Dan
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>Soapbox on: You'll be doing yourself a great favor to learn to use POV without
a >GUI first. There's still an awful lot that the graphical editors don't yet
do and to >get the most mileage, you'll still need to do a fair amount of
handwork. You'll also >simply learn to control your tool better. Soapbox off.
I agree 99.99999% {floating point error 🙂 }.
pondering mode = ON.
max_recursive_calls = 2.
I like to look at modelers for raytracers as object modelers
not as scene generators. Usually a modeler will let you do both, but unless
your paying more than $100 for it, it's going to be an object modeler ( a lot
of features will be missing ). It's good to be able to visualize where the
objects should be positioned (roughly speaking). Wireframe make things go
faster at the expense of having to use a lot your imagination…anyways,
writing a scene file in an editor is the ultimate creativity developer.
Coming back to Dan Farmer's reply, it's good to bite the bullet and learn the
syntax.
It should save a lot of headaches later.
pondering mode = OFF.
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So true. As you know, I haven't got any experience with POVCAD, but with
Lutz's unnamed modeller, although it's quite rich in features, I find myself
using it more as a reference than as a final scene production tool. I've been
reworking my old drumset image and using the modeller to place the drums and
cymbals, and I am exporting to POV format with it, but then I take that output
and cut/paste into my *real* file, modifying textures, tweaking things, adding
things that are not supported, etc. A beginner will certainly be able to take
any of these and do simple scenes (or at least, should be able to), but to go
beyond that will require digging deeper.
I just think it's very interesting to see this drastic change in the people
that are using raytracers now. A couple years ago, if someone needed a tool,
they either wrote it themselves or found someone who could. You learned a lot
in the process. Now, it's "Where can I find it?" and "Why doesn't it do this?"
It's as though we're now getting a crop of users that want raytracing spoon-fed
to them. A modeller will certainly help these folks get their first raytracing
done with much more ease than any of us had, but I'm afraid that, like training
wheels on a kid's bike, they'll get stuck at that level.
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You boys speak as though raytracing is relatively new. While I think it would
be better to learn how to use the renderer w/o the GUI the fact still remains-
CLI interfaces are difficult to use! I realize that at one point people didn't
have the luxury of asking for a GUI but obviously when a technology has been
around so long on different computers it's bound to generate software. Please,
gentlemen, not all GUI users are wimps with no imagination we just don't want
to get a degree in physics to have fun. Haven't you ever heard that the
interface tends to stifle creativity by getting in the way?
>A modeller will certainly help these folks get their first raytracing >done
with much more ease than any of us had, but I'm afraid that, >like training
wheels on a kid's bike, they'll get stuck at that level.
Remember once the kid grows up the training wheels come off and then we get
into the motorcycles!!!!!!!!! Without Helmets!!!!!!1
-Vic
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Vic,
I don't think for a moment that raytracing is new. I remember seeing it
on the old Atari ST shortly after it came out, and raytracing wasn't new
at that time. Certainly isn't now… it just took this long for IBM to
catch up with Amiga and Atari! (many PC folks new at raytracing seem to
think that we got it directly from mainframes and minis!)
> Haven't you ever heard that the interface tends to stifle creativity
> by getting in the way?
Heard it… don't believe it. Can you imagine, for example, taking a
photo course that doesn't teach you how the lens works, how the
developer/fixer do their job, how different contrast grades and brands
of film affect the outcome, etc? Might be expected from the local
adult education "How to Photograph your Vacation" class, but wouldn't
carry much weight in a class designed at making artists.
IMO, the CUI interface merely tends to stifle doodling.
Part of my point, too, is that the PC modellers we have now (which have
only been around for a very short time) are incomplete. It'll be a
while before we see one that has all primitives implemented and a
complete surface editor (like CRENDER, but complete with the "noise"
textures and normal perturbations, etc.). Without enough understanding
of the lower levels, users will be stuck with those overused textures in
textures.inc, for example. I, for one, have seen enough "Red_Marble" to
last me two or three lifetimes.
Many folks believe that training wheels do absolutely nothing to help
a child learn to ride a bicycle. They begin learning the day the
training wheels come off.
BTW: _I_ didn't call anybody a whimp. Were you reading my mind? <G>.
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Touche' Dan
-Vic
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Vic, I do a great deal of my POV-Ray files through PV3D so I'm not calling
anyone a wimp for using one, as a matter of fact my images have increased in
complexity about ten times since I've been using one.
I personaly prefer mountain bikes!
Sam
Dan, I personally prefer White_Marble<g>
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Prefer: My surplus CA highway patrol "Police 1000" motorcycle, Jade.
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Good one Sam! I also prefer mountain bikes and there's a soft spot in me for
White_Marble too!
-Vic
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The real reason for so few modellers is that they are hard to write. You
really have to understand all of the underlying geometry used in modelling,
understand 3D well (not all that easy), and you need to be able to design a
good user interface (really hard). Almost as bad it that they are very hard
to write in a portable manner. What with Quickdraw, Windows, X-Windows/Motif,
bare DOS graphics, …
One of the joys of POV-Ray is that you can compile and run on a wide variety of
machines. This has lead to people from many environments being able to
contribute to the effort. Modellers that run on one platform don't get that
sort of feedback.
But, if you live in PC-land, there are some nice modellers starting to appear.
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>I just think it's very interesting to see this drastic change in the people
that are >using raytracers now. A couple years ago, if someone needed a tool,
they either >wrote it themselves or found someone who could. You learned a lot
in the >process. Now, it's "Where can I find it?" and "Why doesn't it do
this?"
yep, I know what you mean…I ask myself those questions and then write my
stuff.
But not everyone can write their own little PV3D or POVCAD or LUTZCAD! I think
it's also very important to give something back. There are lots of people that
find new ways to do things such as i.e. a fancy new texture , an that simply
get's shown on a GIF file and that's about it – no sharing or even explaining
the concept used. That's what makes everything more difficult at the end.
In terms of modelers, each person should decide if they want or not to use a
modeler…true, most of them are missing lot's of the important features but as
time goes on that should be taken care of. The user plays the most important
role: using and letting the author know how he can improve the program.
Programs are not something that exists inside of a vacuum….it's a user
oriented thing.
Live long and prosper!
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(after reading Dan Farmer's reply to you…)
yes, you only need to download the runtime module VBRUN200.DLL , zipped here as
VBRUN20.ZIP.
I also agree with Dan…try to learn PoV first so you'll be able to understand
the code generated by POVCAD or any other modeler for that matter.
BTW: soon enough you will not need a GUI( if you decide to stick with POVCAD)
since I'm finishing the DOS version. The GUI is a far cry from Windows but it
will hopefully do the job.
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