CompuServe Thread

#Guerrilla Vid Mktg

25 messages in this thread
#29879From: Nathan WahlMay 9, 1993 7:09 AM
In the last VTU, Publisher/Editor Jim Plant wrote in his Toaster Talk column on the subject of Guerrilla Video Marketing. I feel that a discussion of this topic is warranted here, as there may be a number of us involved in this type of projects. To get the ball rolling, here are some questions to think about. * What do you think of the moral implications of selling something that does not yet exist? * Does the videographer have the obligation to produce the video regardless of the response he/she gets? * How much work should be done before the advertisement is published (before the decision is made on whether or not to complete the project)? * What criteria should the videographer use to determine whether to complete the project? When does this decision need to be made. * If the decision is made NOT to complete the project, what do you feel is the minimum action to take regarding orders that were received? * If the response is close to the minimum number of orders, what is the minimum quality that you would use in the creation of the finished project? Conversely, if the response is larger than anticipated, should some of the money be used to increase the quality of the finished video? Please don't feel limited to give your opinions to the above areas. The technical side of this topic is just as important to this level of video production as is the softer side of it. If you are considering this type project, what is stopping you from proceeding? If there is anyone out there involved in this type project, let us know how it is going. If there's anyone who has completed one or several of these projects, please also let us know things like how it went, how you answered questions similar to the above, and any pitfalls that you found. Thank you all for your attention.
#29885From: JERRY HATCHETTMay 9, 1993 1:32 PM
I don't think there's anything wrong with the concepts of guerilla marketing, PROVIDED: * You set aside all the received funds until you absolutely decide for sure to produce the video, so that if you don't produce it, you immediately have the bucks to refund the people's money. * You decide FIRST what minimum level of quality the piece will have, and stick to it. If you sell it for $29.95, the people should get their money's worth, whether you're selling 100 copies or 10,000 copies. What I'm saying is that should you get the minimum number of orders, you should definitely not downgrade the production quality to skimp. If you felt that increasing the quality would be feasible, there's certainly nothing wrong with that. Another thing that might be worth considering, should you decide not to produce the video, would be to send a nice letter to the people along with their refund. Explain that you regret that you won't be able to immediately produce the piece, and also enclose a discount coupon for any of your future related productions. This might alleviate their frustrations a bit, AND keep them LOOKING for your future advertisements, in case you do something just a touch different, but something that would be advertised in the same publications.
#29895From: Nathan WahlMay 9, 1993 10:46 PM
I think your stipulations are valid. Since the funds coming in would be in the form of checks and money orders (hopefully nobody sends cash), it would be easy to keep them uncashed. How would you feel if the decision was made to complete the project, and some of the funds were put toward the final production? I mean, say, that all of the graphics and talent shots were done already, but the final editing is to be done and paid for after the ad date. The return letter is also a good idea. Maybe a include a paper copy of the plans, for example, that were going to be the topic, just as a consolation.
#29912From: JERRY HATCHETTMay 10, 1993 1:37 PM
I see absolutely nothing unethical about your approach; hope it goes well! I also respect Frank's opinion on the subject, but since I read it about 12 hours ago, can't remember enough to dig into it in detail. I subscribe to "Home Mechanix"; if that's the mag, I'll be watching for your ad. I too have been considering such a project, and will post more details later…….
#29957From: Nathan WahlMay 11, 1993 11:20 PM
Jerry, Thanks for the bolster. The magazine is a just bit more 'popular' than that one. If you get have any questions, just ask, as I usually find lotsa stuff not to do when I start things like this. :() … Nate, Emerald Video. Flyin' IFR on AP
#29991From: David HopkinsMay 13, 1993 1:28 AM
Alright, I had to jump in here. My name is David Hopkins, and I am not only one of the monthly columnists for VTU, but also the producer of a very successful video training package, Taming The Wave. When we first began work on Taming The Wave in early (very early) 1992, I knew exactly what I wanted to put into the tape. Since I was animating the entire tape (planned to be two hours…one on LightWave, one on Modeler), and I was well on my way to completion, Gun For Hire (the production company I work with) and I chose to place a full page ad in VTU. The ad stated, simply, "Coming September 27th, 1992. The tape that will change the way you thing about LightWave 3D." Plus, of course, the notice to call and reserve your copy. The original price for the tape was planned to be $99.95, and all was going well. Soon, while finishing up the LightWave section, I found that one hour was not enough to do the subject justice to the rate that I wished. We dropped the Modeler portion and planned on two hours of LightWave. By now it was August or so, and we had many, many pre-orders, all of them checks. Shortly we decided that two hours was not enough, and went to three hours, mastered on D2. More animating (lots more), more editing…we were passed our release date. Against the better wishes of me personally, Gun For Hire had been cashing these checks to pay for production and advertising. We did audio at Skywalker Sound in Santa Monica, paid dearly for top-notch packaging (claimed by many to be the most professional packaging for such a product in the Amiga market) and things like spiral-binding manuals. Four-color process advertisments and much more. Gun For Hire is a major post-production facility, whose works include the "Jeep Shots" TV campaign, Pespi, Nike, and many others. Even some TV shows. They chose to undertake this project (which was next-to-nothing to them strictly due to my determination to do it. I won't lie. My early buyers paid for the completion of the production which was finally delivered in January 1993. I got MANY upset phone calls prior to release. I assured them that we were delaying release so as to make a better product. I gladly told anybody who called to complain exactly what we were up to. Now, after release and the sale of more than 1,000 units, I have had only one return. The package acheived greater success than I had imagined, even being mentioned in the NAB issue of Post Magazine (a very high-level mag). The best, however, was getting the fax from Thomas Wheeler, the gentleman quoted in our ad in the last issue of VTU. He was calling FREQUENTLY prior to release very upset about the delays. Very upset. After finally receiving his copy, he sent me that fax which said "You were right…it was worth the wait." Our intention was not to defraud people in any way, nor even to handle the situation in that way. We didn't expect a delay of the magnitude that ended up happening. But if it weren't for that little "seed" of money, the production would have gone way over Gun For Hire's initial budget and been cancelled. I owe my thanks to all of those who trusted in me. If you choose to market a video using these so-called guerilla video methods, do me one favor. Don't defraud the people trying to help you. Give them what you promise and play straight with them. David Hopkins Gun For Hire Film & Tape
#29998From: SyndesisMay 13, 1993 10:43 AM
Let's put the shoe on the other foot. You start writing about a product that's yet to be released… it's going to be the greatest Toaster add-on gizmo ever. The company promises it's going to be out by a certain date; then the release date slips by months and months, and meanwhile, they're cashing the checks. What would you say about this in your column? Second question, did you say anything about your product slipping in your column? And why oh why did anyone let anyone start cashing checks? Cashing checks or submitting credit card slips is very rude if done any significant amount of time before actual shipment of the product – I'm willing to say it should happen the same day, and no sooner. Cashing that payment and not shipping for 30 days is also in violation of the Uniform Commercial Code, as far as I know. Man alive, you let this happen to your side-line business? What sort of ethical slipperiness do you permit in your column?
#30028From: David HopkinsMay 14, 1993 1:32 AM
Good lord! I didn't expect to get flamed! As I explained, it was not part of the original plan at all. And, in fact, I did keep my readers appraised of the progress and delays on Taming The Wave. I even quoted excerpts from the darn thing so people could get an idea of what it was shaping up to be. Let's see other companies give away details of products that they are still developing as I did both in my columns and in the calls I received. You know, John, as well as I do that magazines do have lead times, even mags with a turn around as fast as VTU. Preparing the ads and publishing them when we did was an important marketing move that drew attention away from the other tapes that were starting to come out and showed people that they had an alternative. The bit about Gun For Hire cashing the checks came to me as just as shocking news as you point out. At the time, however, with the entire fate of the project in their hands, I could do nothing more than protest the fact that they did it, which I did constantly. As far as "slipperiness" in my columns, have you read a review of any other training tapes in my column? No. Not because the magazine wouldn't allow it, but because I felt it was improper to do while releasing one of my own. Equally, I have not seen any of my competitors' tapes except for the two that originally inspired me to make my own. My decision was based on the fact that I BOUGHT those tapes (as opposed to having them sent free of charge which is a benefit most every journalist has) and felt that I had been ripped off. As I told anybody who called to complain during the delays, we will happily refund the entire amount AT ANY TIME. Nobody chose to take us up on that offer. Our purposes were not malicious, and you are correct in it being a legal matter. We seem to have dealt with the problem in a matter satisfactory to all involved and learned a valuable lesson at the same time. If, and that's a big IF, we produce another tape, the approach will be handled much differently. David Hopkins
#30041From: SyndesisMay 14, 1993 9:06 AM
Was Jim Plant's editorial aimed at you, or was it just a coincidence? (Let me point out that all I've ever heard about this story is what you've said here.) You didn't expect to get flamed? Are you kidding? Whether you're ready to admit it or not, you and your company came very close to crashing and burning in the classic computer-company scam: You ran ads for a product that didn't exist, you cashed the checks, and you (almost) didn't produce anything. You screwed up the perfect ending, though – you didn't disappear with the cash. Instead, you came here to say you're sorry. And you didn't expect to get flamed? I can't imagine how you can distance yourself from Gun For Hire. How many video-savvy people are in this company? How many were directly involved in this project? It couldn't be that many – after all, you hadn't finished the project, all you'd been doing is running ads and cashing checks. If the advance cashing really bothered you, and you were *not* closely linked to these people, you could have dropped the project and left them holding the bag. You can't have it both ways. I know you mentioned Gun For Hire when you called Syndesis to get free product, and although I don't remember specifics, you would have been a rare exception among freebie-seeking writers if you didn't describe yourself as a major player at the company. 🙂 As far as "slipperiness" in your columns… let me get this straight: You think it was OK to talk about your tapes on a regular basis (although they hadn't shipped and for which some people had already paid) but it wouldn't be OK for you to talk about other people's tapes, except to say you bought them and you were so disappointed you decided to make your own. Yeah. How much cash are we talking about here? And did you pay full rates for your ads in VTU? I've had a number of complaints with Video Toaster User since its inception. I think it has a serious lack of ethical writers. From issue one, almost all the writers have their own products and projects to plug. (Meanwhile, the rest of us are asked to buy ads to plug our products.) When they're not plugging their own efforts, they're plugging the efforts of another columnist. When they're not plugging each other's products, they're overlooking serious flaws in products. Both Duberman and Plant have said to me, "Gee, we don't ever like to say anything negative about a product, that doesn't do anyone any good." In other words, the bugs don't matter, the manual doesn't matter, the interface doesn't matter, the support doesn't matter. And now, apparently, it doesn't matter if a company runs ads and cashes checks before the product ships, or that this company is clearly associated with one of the magazine's columnists. If Syndesis ran ads and cashed checks for a non-existent product, and your money was involved, would your column say "Let's send them more money and wait and see, I'm sure they don't have any malicious intent."?
#30111From: Paul ToalMay 16, 1993 6:34 AM
FLAME ON. Please use your "Return" key. Paragraphs are really a cool thing you know. Try it, others will like it. FLAME OFF.
#30151From: David HopkinsMay 16, 1993 10:14 PM
Sorry about the long trains of thought. I do that because I'm trying so hard to get my typing to keep up with my thoughts. I'll try my best. David Hopkins
#30023From: Nathan WahlMay 13, 1993 10:45 PM
David, I really appreciate you being so straightforeward in sharing this; it's exactly the type of input I was looking for. It looks like you've experienced all of my biggest fears already, took a lot of heat to keep the quality up, but you're also enjoying the results of a lot of hard work. What I'm working on should work out a bit easier, as it's about an order of magnitude less complex than what you've done. That means it should only be half the trouble. :^) Your advice rings true; I'll do whatever I can to have the project 'in the can' by the ad release date, and if for some reason I can't, orderers will at least get a letter telling them what's going on. I've decided to finish the project even if I only get two orders, anyway, just because I want to see it done. Of course then I wouldn't be able to get your package for a while, so I hope I sell a few. BTW, the articles have been real nice lately, and practical, too. Glad you stuck around. Hey, when's the next contest? For that matter, who won the last one? How many entries did you get? Just curious. Thanks again for the feedback, and for bringing it here to this forum. I'm sure that it wasn't easy. PS. I get either a smiley face or a sad one, depending on how I connec the dots. At least I get the feeling we won't all be in the dark for long. … Nate, Emerald Video. Flyin' IFR on AP
#30029From: David HopkinsMay 14, 1993 1:38 AM
Thank you for the kind words, and let me also make a second note to John here…we also sent letters to the pre-orderers explaining the delay. Alas, it mentioned yet another date that we ran past. The best laid plans, etc. Anyway, on the subject of the columns, check out the next couple in both VTU and Amiga Video. More tutorials that'll explore the less utilized functions of LightWave and Modeler. As for contests, the Waterfall contest winner is announced in the upcoming issue of VTU, and I'm not going to spill the beans yet. Read and ye shall learn. Future contests? Well, while not a contest exactly, you may want to check out the upcoming issue of Amiga Video. I've begun a rather bold project. I've offered anybody who wants it a city block. You build your block, send it in, and we're going to make a monsterous animation for entry in one of the big graphics shows as the first national cooperation animation. Should be interesting. All of the rules and info are in that new issue, so check it out. David Hopkins
#30053From: Erik FlomMay 14, 1993 1:58 PM
I don't get Amiga-Video, but I have a VERY nice museum & Art Deco theater facade which would be an excellent addition to this project. Could you please forward me details like an address? Thanks, Erik Flom
#30098From: David HopkinsMay 15, 1993 9:37 PM
Glad to hear you want to join in. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to let you get the address out of the column because there are some VERY specific guidelines that MUST be followed for this project to work smoothly. Please make sure and read that before you send anything! But, I should say the address anyway, I suppose… Mach Universe/Gun For Hire 3019 Pico Blvd Santa Monica, CA Attn: David Hopkins I want to respond to John's last message, but I accidently flew past it and I'm in a hurry, so I'll put it here. First, you don't seem to understand what I said before. I have made no mention of other people's tapes , either good or bad, in my columns. Second, if you go back and read those columns discussing the tape, you'll find that I advised people that there WAS INDEED A DELAY. Further, the tape was almost finished when we started advertising…at it's two hour length. I suppose the fact that we chose to improve the product by adding another entire HOUR of video, and quality third-party 3D fonts and objects with retail values over $500 in the same package isn't a thanks? The people who preordered at $99.95 were not charged more after this was added. We raised the SRP to $119.95 for orders after a certain date. On the subject of myself and Gun For Hire, let me explain that Gun For Hire is NOT a software/home video company. This is the company that makes the shows, commercials, and music videos you see places like MTV, ShowTime, and NBC among others. This video was literally of no importance to them except that I wanted to do it. Each job is budgeted a certain amount of money, always paid by the client (i.e. Jeep, Nike, Pepsi). In this case, Gun For Hire was entering a field (direct marketing) that it had never been in before. On top of that, how many places do YOU know that would hand you $25,000 to make a training video like this? If I objected to much, the project (and my relationship with a VERY successful post production facility) would be down the tubes. At every turn, I was expecting to have the tape done in a matter of days. Little "unimportant" things like me trying to make some income for my family got in the way. Sorry. Certainly it would have been better to supply the end users with a product that was just "fair" by your statements. As for that editorial being based on me? Nope. As for the rates I paid? I paid rates that appear on the exact same rate card you use. Sure, I got a bit of consideration, but not nearly to the stage you think. I wish. Finally, about my getting software from you. If I used Gun For Hire's name when talking to you, it was simply to let you know the type of work I did besides my columns. You certainly weren't pressured into sending me software, were you? Did you not, at the time you sent me a Beta copy of Interchange Plus to help solve a crisis I had at the time, telling me that you wanted a writeup in the column when you shipped? I told you that I would certainly do that if it could solve the problem as you thought it would. It didn't, hence no coverage. Do I write anything negative about companies? Sure. One I can think of at the moment is the TV Objects a company released a while back. I panned it. To a lessor degree, I berrated AntiGravity for not doing a full LightWave conversion of Motion Man. Tell you what, John…call up Jim and ask about all of the negative stuff that keeps getting edited out of my columns. What do you think I have to gain by all this stuff? Sure, I get some software at "review prices" (aka free). I also devote a LOT of my time to teaching people how to use software and what products will best solve problems they need solved. There are tradeoffs everywhere in life, John, just like your offer to send me a beta in trade for a column.
#30131From: Erik FlomMay 16, 1993 3:35 PM
Well, since I have been pretty depressed by the quality I saw in Amiga-Video, I won't buy another issue. If you would like me to donate something for your project, you will have to send me a copy of the exact requirements. (I can send you a SASE to help defray costs.)
#30152From: David HopkinsMay 16, 1993 10:19 PM
Hey, my friend, don't give up the ghost! I, and many many others, have been griping and moaning about quality the last few issues as well. I'm promised by the editor that the new issue about to hit the stands has been greatly improved. No more mystery quotes…I hear they actually used a spell checker and everything! I hope you, like me, will at least wait to see if it's true… If not, I understand. I'll put together a file of info and upload it ASAP! David Hopkins
#30217From: Erik FlomMay 17, 1993 11:19 PM
Thanks for the info. I'd heard they were re-structuring. I'll check it out next time I see an issue. A file with pertinent facts about the project on CIS probably wouldn't reduce the number of people interested, though . . . .:^) Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#30197From: Peter GreciMay 17, 1993 7:02 PM
So I'm not the only one unimpressed by the NEW Amiga Video Grafix magazine eh? I loved AVid but don't like AVG much, I'm giving them 2 issues to clean up their acts then cancelling my Sub If I'm still not satisfied.
#30140From: SyndesisMay 16, 1993 9:04 PM
I don't think you "get it" yet either. I'm saying I object to columnists in a magazine using that platform to discuss, promote and otherwise sales- and tech-support their for-profit projects. I don't think you "get" the fact that you and your company engaged in unethical (if not simply illegal) business practices. You seem to think that by singing and dancing a little longer (adding content, announcing delays in your column, raising the price and cashing more checks) you've somehow shown that the "ends justify the means." Yeah, right. If you knew there was a 2-3 month delay, you had no business cashing those checks. Period, end of story, # 30 #. In my eyes, you are just digging yourself deeper and deeper. You tell me that Gun For Hire didn't care about this project, that it was all your idea. What do you mean by "consideration" for the ads you placed? Because you were a columnist you got good placement, free production, or what? Exactly what did you pay, for what size ad? And I wasn't "pressured" into sending out software? You're right, I'll get down on my knees and bark like a dog for a little coverage. It's hard enough to get press releases printed in VTU. (Although there's always room for the latest "gee, isn't NewTek great" advertorial, and for press releases from GVP about the latest phone/fax card, right across from their full-page ad. Exchange files between LightWave, Wavefront and 3D Studio? Direct-load Imagine objects into Toaster? Why print that? A columnist from Video Toaster calls me, telling me that if I send him pre-release software he'll be really grateful and maybe even write about it because it will help him make the big bucks at his video production company. You talk about wanting to cash checks to feed your family… at that moment, you weren't offering to pay for what I do for a living. You were using your position at the magazine for your own gain, and nothing else. I really don't know if you've ever said anything about InterChange Plus in your columns. I do know I had to kneel and woof again to get Duberman to review InterChange, and then he has to do it side-by-side with a review of Pixel 3D Pro. He was fully aware of the many defects in Pixel and of superior features in InterChange, yet refused to write about them. Trade-offs in life? I wish I could advertise products that don't exist and get paid for them before they do, as you've done. I wish that when I sent out free product, I knew it was going to a competent reviewer at an honest publication, and that they weren't just asking for it because they needed it for their latest money-making project. The former won't happen because I know it's wrong; the latter will continue to happen with any badly-supervised magazine.
#30155From: David HopkinsMay 16, 1993 11:02 PM
First, I would hope that we can try to keep all of this civil. I'm happy to discuss my reasons for writing. I write because I enjoy it. I don't make "oodles" of money off of my columns, but I also don't make what I would if I were spending the equivelant amount working on a graphics job. Let's clear off the subject of "profit" in a monetary sense, because it just isn't there. I buy a lot of software. Out of my pocket, with my money. The magazine doesn't give me a "budget" each month to acquire things to write about, it's my money that I earn producing graphics and animation. Almost every company that produces a product is looking for free mentions, and that puts a lot of pressure on a writer. You, as a journalist yourself, should be able to understand that. If I mention this product, what is the guy who makes the competing product gonna say? I DON'T CARE. Now let me explain what I mean by that. I don't play the "you scratch mine, I'll scratch yours" game. If you, as a software manufacturer, want to make sure that I see your product in the hopes that I will rave about how wonderful it is to those who read my columns, the logical way to do this is to send it to me. Otherwise, there is the possibilty that I would never see the package and you miss the added pr. Every software company in the WORLD knows that. But, no product is accepted by me on conditions that I absolutely HAVE to write about it. Period. Equally, by sending software, you take your chances. If I like it, I'll probably write about it. I usually do (as evidenced by the good reviews I give many products and many mentions) write about products that OTHER people may not be familiar with which are of high quality. If I DON'T like the product you send me, there's a good chance I'll mention that in the column. Maybe I won't. When I write my columns I sit down and think about the span of time since I wrote the last column. What products have I bought/seen/been sent in that period of time have proved to be highly useful to me as a professional animator? What new tricks have I heard/ discovered in that time? That's what I write. As for the magazine itself, I will neither defend nor attack them. It is not fair for me to do so and a person would have to be really stupid to say something negative about the boss (they do pay me for articles…) I will say, however, your problems with getting ANYBODY to do ANYTHING for or about you, verify facts, etc., EXCEPT ME have nothing to do with me. I live in Southern Cal and they live in Northern Cal. The only time of the month that I even talk to them is when I modem them the new column. Your problems with the magazine and/or its publishers or writers other than me are between you and them. Don't drag me into that. I really hate to even mention this now because it sounds as if the statement is merely because we've argued. It's not. But I'll tell you exactly why I didn't write about Interchange…because I don't care for the program. You sent me a beta version during development as has been discussed earlier in this string to help me when I called and asked a favor. I didn't trade a definate article or mention for it, nothing. Why did you send it? Why me? You knew me only by a couple of conversations on the phone and meeting once or twice at trade shows, but you sent a beta copy of your software to me. Did you not expect me to use it? I get my knowledge of the value of a product by using it in my jobs. Indeed, if I wasn't allowed to use a piece of software I was sent in my jobs for profit, they would likely never get mentioned simply because I don't have TIME to work with a program unless it is in the course of a professional job! I even told you things I liked and didn't like about the program after you sent it, didn't I? My main complaint was the interface and having to open so many little programs didn't seem as handy as offering them as menu-style options or buttons. Per your request, I modemed you a DeluxePaint-drawn image of how I thought the program might look to seem simpler and more professional. Didn't I? Why did you want that from me? Were you, by some chance, looking profit from my suggestions if possible? I'm offended by your gall in accusing ME of conducting my business and writing affairs in an improper manner. The majority of my columns are teaching people how to produce professional animations. JOHN, I'M TRAINING PEOPLE TO COMPETE WITH ME! Good lord, can't you see that the column is not some sort of political battlefield to me? You are welcome to continue in your belief that I'm scum, but let me tell you this, John: If I find a situation where your product comes into use to me in the course of my work, I'll be more than happy to write it up in my column(s). Maybe I'll buy some other product you release (since I presume you wouldn't send it to me), find it highly useful, and rave and rave like I do with Unili Graphics. Maybe not. I make no promises. Do YOU "get it"? David Hopkins
#30168From: SyndesisMay 17, 1993 9:18 AM
I've stated my beliefs. I've asked a lot of questions, which you've consistently dodged. You and/or Gun For Hire certainly thought this video would be profitable. They didn't invest $25K as a charitable donation. Your "ends" of educating Toaster users do not justify your "means" of cashing checks before a product is ready. As for InterChange, gee, thanks for condemning it based on the beta copy. I'm so glad I sent it. If you weren't a columnist explicitly or implicitly promising a mention in VTU, you're right, I wouldn't have sent it. "Open so many little programs"? Huh? In the release version of ICP, you click on one icon to start everything. One window opens. You see, that's one of the improvements we made in the jump from InterChange to InterChange Plus. Even if you think you have a superior design for our user interface, why would that prevent you from using ICP or discussing its worth in your column? If ICP does the best conversions of 3D objects and supports more formats more accurately than anything out there, why isn't it worth discussing? As for Unili Graphics: I talked with them a month or so ago. They told me they'd used InterChange Plus to convert their font objects from one format to another, but they ran into a bug of some kind. (Is this the product of theirs that you plug?) I knew they weren't in our registration database. I asked which version they had and why they hadn't registered, and they said, oh, we got a beta version of InterChange Plus from a southern California pirate board. Needless to say, my opinion of them was formed quite quickly. As for your potential for receiving more free Syndesis software, as long as you're a VTU columnist, your odds remain as good as they ever were, that is, you're at the top of the list because of the realities of this market. We sent a batch (5?) of the release InterChange Plus to the VTU offices, I don't know why you didn't receive a copy. I will make my opinions known to the new editor of VTU. I've heard that he plans to dismiss a number of writers.
#29886From: Frank VanellaMay 9, 1993 1:49 PM
I spoke to Jim Plant (Editor of VTU) regarding the moral implications of that editorial immediately upon receiving my copy of VTU. In a nutshell, he tells me that originally there were statements that discussed the moral issues you and others obviously feel needed to be addressed and that unfortunately those statements were edited out for the sake of saving space. Whether you buy that explanation or not isn't really the point of the discussion, since the implications of that sort of marketing tactic are relevant whether Jim had mentioned it or not. As a self employed producer of audio/video projects I have had the oppourtunity to work with a broad spectrum of clients, some of which were not as above board as I would have liked. Because of the usual lead time required for advertising placement, it might be acceptable for someone to place an ad prior to the completion of a video, in the electronics, video, & computer industies it's done all the time, it's called "vaporware". However, I would like to express an opinion on the matter. I don't feel that such an ad should be placed without the reasonable expectation of shipping the product by the time the ad breaks. This could be easily accomplished with allowances for normal production delays. Floating a "test baloon" ad just to decide whether or not the product has a demand, or to raise cash for the production of the product isn't what I would call a valid marketing tactic, it's dishonest.
#29896From: Nathan WahlMay 9, 1993 10:47 PM
I appreciate your input, and have also considered the things you mention. I'm glad that Jim considered the moral implications, but I also understand the need to make it fit in the space alloted. To be honest, as you may have guessed, I'm undertaking such a project at this time. I'll give a few details; please tell me if you think what I'm doing meets what you call a <reasonable expectation of shipping>. The subject is a home improvement project that I've done myself, and feel others could benefit from. The product will be a set of plans, and a video that will last about 25 minutes, explaining the complete process with graphic examples and footage of actual construction. Obviously, the construction scenes will have to be staged. I placed the ad last week in a home improvement magazine classified section. The issue breaks June 15th. So far, I've taken several steps toward completing the project. The task schedule is done. The script is essentially done, and the storyboard started. The plans are made for the construction details and the required jigs, as are most of the graphics screens to match. About half of the 3D objects for animating are done, and several scenes are ready but not yet rendered. None of the title screens could be done until the script is done. The talent has agreed to undertake the project, but a contract is not yet signed. I'm doing the voice-over and the music (some buy-out stuff and a few of my compositions). I am doing all of the graphics and animations with equipment I already have, and expect to shoot the live sections on my Hi-8 camcorder. I intend to edit the footage to SVHS, and render the graphics/anims directly onto the same tape. This will be the master for the dubs, so the dubs will be 3rd generation at worst. This would be fine, but if the response is going to be large enough, I'd like to shoot with rented 3/4 SP equipment and maybe a 3 CCD B'cast camera, but could not afford this unless I could sell at least 100 copies. This would also mean going to a suite to do the edits, with the G&A being rendered on the same tape as the footage. In the case that there wasn't enough interest to complete this project (say 50 orders), I plan to send out a letter of apology, a refund, and include the printed material anyway. The way I planned it is to do as much as I can with what I have. If it doesn't work, I'm out about a hundred hours or so time (experience) and the fee to the talent. The decision I need to make is wether to make a fair quality product, and have it ready to go (except the dubs); or, have it as ready as I can before the ad date (all graphics and anims done and on disk, the rest planned as well as I can) and do the shooting and editing after the response is known, say a week after the ad hits. This would obviously mean higher quality, but a delayed delivery. So, Frank (and anybody else that wants to jump in), what do you think? … Nate, Emerald Video. Flyin'
#29918From: Peter GreciMay 10, 1993 5:33 PM
"IF" the ad were to state that the first X number of tapes sold would be providing the "seed" money for the project I see no problem, maybe do something like the folks who do the Videografix Today video tapes did, give a nice Coffee Mug as a thank you for the first X # of Buyers/investors. Perhaps I'm wrong, but as long as it's stated that their needs to be a minimum # of orders taken I see no problem with Jim Plant's idea.