CompuServe Thread

#Help on IPAS

26 messages in this thread
#103905From: Jim LammersMay 25, 1994 11:47 AM
>>if you've had a chance to play around w/getting POV textures into 3ds << Well, the PoV people don't want anyone to use their code for *anything* except personal non-distributed 'what-if' programming. So if I'm going to do it, I need to go back one step and program from SIGGRAPH papers and concepts, perhaps drawing from the PoV code as an example. They probably would never get a chance to see the source code, but it's not supposed to look *anything* like the PoV source code… Incidentally, Schreiber just released some SXPs that look a lot like PoVs… I think they were programmed by Mike White of SunDog originally. They look really good, and Mike says they render faster than other SXPs… I have the demo versions on line on my BBS, and they seem to work pretty well. One of these days I'm going to get into IPAS programming, but right now I'm forcused on creating animation.
#103911From: John StetzerMay 25, 1994 12:04 PM
>>the PoV people don't want anyone to use their code for *anything* except personal non-distributed 'what-if' programming. <Sigh> Shame, that. Looks like I'll just have to keep doing it the hard way. Maybe I should try to get a programmer-type here interested in IPAS'ing. >>Incidentally, Schreiber just released some SXPs that look a lot like PoVs Just downloaded the thumbnails; hopefully will get the chance to look at them later today. >>One of these days I'm going to get into IPAS programming, but right now I'm forcused on creating animation. I'm currently 'suffering' from the same problem (fortunately :^); only difference is that it looks like it's gonna be 'one of these years' b4 I can try! :^} Thanks for the replay. John Stetzer JWS
#104032From: Mike White SunDog Pro.May 26, 1994 2:45 AM
Hi Mike White here . Hope you like the images. These textures are the closest to POV. The only thing is it is going through a ray trace program. Hopefully 3DS4 will be complete ray trace and thes and other texture that are SXP's will look unreal. What I think is with SXP's you need to have many options to set up so you can come up with so many different textures form one. I you look at the thumbnails like Marble.sxp, Granit.sxp and Agate.sxp thats 75 different stone textures. Any Semi-precious stone you need and these wert mixing say like Agate.sxp and Marble.sxp as texture 1 or 2. Our fractal textures seem to enhance each other when mixing textures like Beaded.sxp and Squigle.sxp thay seem to interact with each other. Check out Mix.jpg this image is using Beaded.sxp and Squigle.sxp together. The arangmets are unlimited. Thanks in your intrest. Mike White [SDP]
#104126From: M. G. BATCHELORMay 26, 1994 1:13 PM
Hi Mike, I was just curious from looking at the samples – is there a problem with antialiasing or blurring these textures, do they hold up when animated ? BILL
#104131From: Mike White SunDog Pro.May 26, 1994 1:26 PM
Hi there M.G Yes These textures do hold when animated. These samples where done with a 1.3 pixel ratio in my set file. The textures that have animated features are layers and amebeoa.sxp thay animate very well. Another thing is the closer you get to the texture the more detail you'll see in the texture. One more thing is when you mix two or more textures together they seem to interact with each other causing a wide variation of texture. If you have any more question feel free to ask. That what I here for. Mike White [SDP]
#104139From: ALAN IGLESIASMay 26, 1994 2:19 PM
I'm pretty sure that what Mr. Batchelor is talking about is the .SXP built-in Anti-Aliasing that needs to be present in the IPAS code for A-A to happen in the texture. Is this correct Bill? I don't think the A-buffer A-A can touch your .SXP's, so pixel size wouldn't be an issue here. I think Stucco.SXP is one of the only .SXP's with the built-in A-A. GaryY, please correct me if I'm wrong here. -Alan Iglesias
#104168From: Mike White SunDog Pro.May 26, 1994 5:35 PM
I'll ask R.J. I'm sure he included this in the three versions. Mike White [SDP]
#104182From: M. G. BATCHELORMay 26, 1994 6:11 PM
Mr. ? Gee, I just got old all-of-a-sudden <g>. Seriously, that's exactly what I meant, but you said it much better. It appears as if the SXP's are not filtered, and as you said, I recalled something about this not being possible. So, maybe Mike can comment on this further. It seems (from looking at the samples) that they're bound to scintilliate when animated – maybe not ? Thanks for jumping in Alan. BILL
#104234From: Yost GroupMay 26, 1994 11:24 PM
It wasn't possible to filter sxp's in r2, but we added that feature in r3, and stucco.sxp does just that.
#104470From: Mike White SunDog Pro.May 27, 1994 10:21 PM
Yes The version 3 Sxp's we are releasing do have these qualities. I really enjoy seeing the intrest. We will keep these ideas in mind. Mike White [SDP]
#104253From: ALAN IGLESIASMay 27, 1994 12:10 AM
I'm not sure if procedural anti-aliasing was possible in r2, Bill, but I'm pretty sure it is in r3. If memory serves, the Stucco.SXP does it. I'm also pretty sure that if the internal .SXP A-A code is in place, it should animate quite nicely, even up close. Gary can elaborate more, I'm sure… I really hope these routines take advantage of the new capabilities. I really like software shaders and hope to see many more (like the Valis Group ones) in the future. In fact, the future *in general* looks great for 3DS users<g>.
#104262From: M. G. BATCHELORMay 27, 1994 1:11 AM
I like 'em too, and I've been surprised to see so little done with them via IPAS. I hope Mike will respond to these points.
#104233From: Yost GroupMay 26, 1994 11:23 PM
Alan, you have been paying PERFECT attention. Incredible. Stucco.sxp is the only one that incorporates z-based filtering methods, which are critical to smoothing a procedural texture as it moves over time.
#104257From: ALAN IGLESIASMay 27, 1994 12:26 AM
Hey. Whaddaya know, I've still got a few functioning brain cells left!<g>
#104183From: M. G. BATCHELORMay 26, 1994 6:11 PM
Hi Mike, Thanks for the info, but please see the message from Alan I. on this subject and my reply. If you can, please comment on this this. BILL
#104251From: Mike White SunDog Pro.May 26, 1994 11:58 PM
Hi Bill Yes they do have the filtering that Alan is speaking of. They're also 24 bit in color. The CD is shipping from Schreiber you might want to give them a call and get on the mailing list. Their phone no is 1-800-252-1024. On film these textures come out excelent. Few mor notes on our routines our Dust.axp is a form of Strange Atractors not one partical touches. The Marble.sxp and Agate.sxp have the same functions as POV in Dialog menu. Fractalize, Jitters, Turb, Size ..ETC…. Earth.sxp Is a fractal base planet maker. Fade.ixp for fade in fade out of vpost. Lossy.ixp lossy type image compression. In all four set there is 19 routines . Mike White [SDP] P.S. These routines handle all the mapping cords and each have they're own qualities.
#104258From: ALAN IGLESIASMay 27, 1994 12:26 AM
These routines sound great, Mike. I just may "need" to acquire them! -Alan
#104275From: Mike White SunDog Pro.May 27, 1994 2:18 AM
Thnks for your intrest I will be uploading more example and there is full tech support and questions answered.
#104263From: M. G. BATCHELORMay 27, 1994 1:11 AM
Thanks Mike. Quite a while ago I d/l all the crippled demo stuff from you, and I'm on Schriber's mailing list. What CD are you talking about ? So the PT's all definitely have IPAS3 filtering capabilities ? Does the user have CONTROL over the filtering ? Thanks.
#104276From: Mike White SunDog Pro.May 27, 1994 2:22 AM
No but you have control of the brightness and speed in the fractal texture sets. The only contol of some what filtering is iterations. About the Schreiber CD is being mailed out now and includes everthing in convertable DEMO mode There is quite alot lot of great routines from all over the world. Mike White [SDP]
#104903From: sherwood egbertMay 31, 1994 12:28 PM
i just got the cd and its great going to convert the demo today i have the valis shaders vol1 2 6. are you going to make some more of these into ipas ? sherwood
#104938From: Mike White SunDog Pro.May 31, 1994 3:39 PM
Yes we will be developing more IPAS. Were are creating as I write. Please let me know if there is a problem with matlibs and if there is we will get the newest ones to you. Aslo if you would like I will send you updated matlbs of mixed textures. Any suggestions please feel free to let us know. Mike White [SDP]
#104274From: M. G. BATCHELORMay 27, 1994 1:54 AM
To further clarify after reading over my previous messages, I was aware that PT filtering was possible in R3, but have never seen it implemented other than the YG's routine I don't *recall*. Was this implemented in the demo u/l's ? If so, I don't remember any user control over the filtering – which I think is critical in using procedural textures in animation. IMO, you need control over / selection from at least a couple of types of filtering, and several sizes. Does this by any chance exist now with your textures ? If not, it would *_really_* be great. Do you plan on u/l any of these final versions (crippled of course) ? I think it would be a good idea. If they are well-filtered and especially if you have control, I could definitely use all of them. Thanks for your time.
#104277From: Mike White SunDog Pro.May 27, 1994 2:23 AM
This is a good Idea and we will keep it in mind on updates. Mike White [SDP]
#104365From: M. G. BATCHELORMay 27, 1994 12:13 PM
Thanks again Mike. I'm looking foward to seeing the demos. BILL
#104033From: Mike White SunDog Pro.May 26, 1994 2:45 AM
Hi Mike White here . Hope you like the images. These textures are the closest to POV. The only thing is it is going through a ray trace program. Hopefully 3DS4 will be complete ray trace and thes and other texture that are SXP's will look unreal. What I think is with SXP's you need to have many options to set up so you can come up with so many different textures form one. I you look at the thumbnails like Marble.sxp, Granit.sxp and Agate.sxp thats 75 different stone textures. Any Semi-precious stone you need and these wert mixing say like Agate.sxp and Marble.sxp as texture 1 or 2. Our fractal textures seem to enhance each other when mixing textures like Beaded.sxp and Squigle.sxp thay seem to interact with each other. Check out Mix.jpg this image is using Beaded.sxp and Squigle.sxp together. The arangmets are unlimited. Thanks in your intrest. Mike White [SDP]