#EXPENSIVE 3D
14 messages in this thread
There was a special on NBC the other night about the Toaster and a new
show "Babylon 5" will air this fall using the Toaster for it's
animations! Unsolved mysteries uses the Toaster to do it's special
effects and a local TV station uses LightWave for all of it's weather
stuff (chroma key) and it's animated logos (LW).. LightWave 3D was
considered the best animation package in Video Review – comparable to
a Quantel and Paintbox systems.
Note that the Toaster's Lightwave isn't the only 3D system that Ron
Thornton is using for Babylon 5. 3D Studio will be in the mix, too.
There sure is alot of hype about that pilot (note that it's a pilot,
and hasn't been picked up as a series yet).
That's right, 3D Studio is in the mix. One thing that helps of course is
my company's licensing of code that loads 3D Studio objects into the
Toaster. (I know you know that, but we're all here to promote, right? 🙂
The other day, when someone on Babylon V wanted to get some LightWave
objects back into 3D Studio, I didn't have a solution. I looked at the new
ASCII format for v2, and in a few minutes whipped up something that could
move the geometry back into 3DS. Problem solved… sorta.
A few questions about the ASCII format. Why didn't you include materials?
They're in the .3DS files. (Did you want it to be really useful like DXF,
and not carry any surface info? 🙂 ) To be useful, I'd need to create a
separate binary surface file, no? Second, where is the format documented?
What was the general rationale behind the creation of this ASCII format?
Why did customers want an ASCII format?
Hi John,
Good questions… We developed the 3DS ascii format for graphics hackers
who wanted to procedurally create objects externally (via BASIC, a text
editor, or whatever). As you saw, it's a very straightforward way of
getting data into the system without having to deal with an complex binary
format. Although we didn't include the actual material "chunk", we _did_
include the material name, and if that material is in the current 3DS.MLI
materials library, the ascii data will pick it up correctly. (We didn't
include the material chunk itself because it was too complex to logically
break it down into ascii within the timeframe.) Regarding documentation
for this file type… it's basically self-documenting. Since it doesn't
include animation data, it's extremely simple (I'm sure it took you about 5
minutes to figure it out.)
Regarding "what customers wanted an ascii format"… 3DSr1 wrote out ascii
files, but didn't read them, and this tweaked a lot of folks interest in
the format. We got many letters that people wanted a simple ascii way of
getting raw data in and out of the system.
Finally, for you "serious" file format dudes, we're almost done with the
official .3ds file format specification, including a set of C libraries to
enable file writing with _every_ piece of data, including animation. I
should try to get you that kit asap.
– G
G-
I'd be interested in seeing docs on & code on the .3ds file format!
I am 'leading' a development effort over in ComArt forum to build a
homebrew VR system. One thing that would really help is allowing people to
build objects in a real modeling system and import them into our World
Editor/World Player system (WE/WP).
The development is slow going, esp since all involved are volunteers who
generally have to make money or go to school elsewhere. Dont think it will
compete with the ADesk VR system (i&w) it gets released. Might give some
folks a low end way to get involved, then they move up to a real system
<g>.
Right now we have a rather decent 3D rendering system w/interface to
PowerGlove and Sega Glasses.
Jerry Isdale
Jerry,
You should try to contact Chris Allis at Autodesk Multimedia regarding
getting the 3ds file format for your VR system. His previous experience is
with the Cyberspace group and currently he's working with Multimedia folks
on third-party developer relations.
– G
I've sent FAXes to Sergneri and then again to Blaha asking to assist
testing of the 3DS libraries. I know Autodesk has been good about writing
code that considers portability between Intel and Motorola processors, and
I'd like to test this on the 68000 family. So far, they haven't called
back, but then again, I haven't been persistent enough. 🙂 Thanks for
the explanation of the file format. Wavefront files are similar in that
they often name a material, yet the materials library is in a separate
file. Our Wavefront conversion routines both read and write geometry and
materials. Do you hear many requests for conversion tools?
I'll see what I can do to assist you from my end. We _do_ get quite alot
of conversion requests. The biggest one these days is from Topas users who
are switching to 3DS — they want to get their models across. Do you have
anything planned in that area?
– G
Yes, we do. They have documented a format called .AMF for Topas. We
haven't had many requests for it from Amigaphiles, but if/when we port all
this to the PC, it'll be there. What are some of the other formats they
ask for? Where do you send the requests?
The requests for these kinds of conversions generally go through the
product management folks at Adesk, but I occassionally get email about it.
The Wavefront .obj format has been requested frequently and the Digital
Arts format likewise. Haven't had any requests from Mac users to get their
Mac models over yet… must be because there is no decent modeler on the
Mac.
– G
Gary
I already have routines to transfer TOPAS .amf files to 3DSR2 .asc format
they are currently "user friendly as a cornered rat" but if there is some
interest I could them tidy them up a bit.
The geometry is easy but going any further than that will mean going binary
because the TOPAS texture mapping info is carried in the .amf file polygon
by polygon(!) and figuring how to translate that for 3DSR2 is surely a
non-trivial task <g> (I know don't call me Shirley)
– Grahame
Grahame, I'd be interested in getting a copy of this so I could give it
out to people who've been asking for _something_.
What we really need is a binary translator that handles materials and
texture coordinates, but what you've got will go a long way. How about
uploading it to DL9?
– G
Grahame:
We, too, are interested in any Topas to 3DSr2 conversion that will carry
the linking intact. "User Friendly" may not be so important, either. The
routine would not be used THAT frequently <g>. Shirley, you can find a way
to get it to us now <g>.
Ken Loss-Cutler
i'm sorry to here that. maybe next time they will think twice.
sherwood