#HiSoft Pascal
38 messages in this thread
Does anyone know if HiSoft Pascal is available in the US yet? It's
supposedly a Turbo Pascal clone, and has been available in Europe for a
while, but I haven't seen it in stores yet. Thanks …
Harry
It's been available for quite a while. I have v1.1 already which has all
the AmigaDOS 2.0x support.
Try Creative Computers…
-Dave
David,
Tell us a little about it. Is it a good product? What type of 2.0
support does it provide? How extensive a development language is it? What
do you find good and bad about it. Hisoft produced a fine Basic for the
Amiga, but ended up abandoning it. What do you see as an indication that
won't be the case for this product?
Yeah, it's a good product. V1.1 has full support for AmigaDOS 2.04. It's
very solid, has a great editor environment. There are a few "handicaps" to
using Pascal in a C-based system, but they are all pretty simple to
overcome. Mainly, Pascal strings are like BCPL (a length byte followed by
the actual string characters). This is a great system for string
manipulation, but is obviously a hindrance when working with AmigaDOS.
Although it's extremely usable, it needs a little maturing yet.
HiSoft hasn't abandoned Basic. It's just being reworked and isn't yet done.
It'll be back. HiSoft seems to take their products pretty seriously.
What do I see as an indication of that? Well, they have already upgraded
the package within a couple months, they are on Bix and GEnie daily for
support, etc.
HSPascal "could" be a major contender if it gets bought. Using the language
is no different than TurboPascal. Any TP book will get you there. As for
programming AmigaDOS stuff, it's so much like C, you wouldn't believe. I
have my wishlist though. It's not perfect, but it's nice.
-Dave
Dave,
Thanks for that information. I had seen the announcment for the
product, but then all I saw was it show up in software ads. Hadn't seen
any review of it. I own Hisoft Basic, but haven't heard anything from them
since I got the first and only update at least 2 or 3 years ago. Is Hisoft
Pascall being offered by Michtron or another company? I had heard the the
BAsic had gone to some company like Gold Leaf, or some such, but haven't
heard word one.
HiSoft is working on HiSoft Basic. That is all I know about it.
-Dave
Thanks, Dave.
David,
Its been along time since I Pascal'd. Does it support intitialized data
statements? (Like in the printer driver data.c module?) This was one of
the beefs I had with M2 which I've beend told Wirth Rev 5 corrected and
which was not the case with Oberon.
wmc
Well, it supports initialized "typed constants"…
example:
const
num : byte = 1;
count : array [0..2] of integer = (1,2,3);
str : string = 'This is a string';
Hope this answers your question.
-Dave-
Dave, How about a constant array of strings of different lengths (which is
what the printer driver data module is)? Looks like from your example
that:
const
data : array of string [0..97] = '0x17[12w',
'0x17[5eS', etc out to 97 strings.
would work (substituting the appropriate Pascal for the escape cha, hex 17
[I think – too lazy to look it up at the moment]).
wmc
Yes, strings can be any length up to 255 (due to the length byte
restriction), and I don't know what the array ceiling is offhand, so what
you want can be accomplished. For example:
const
str : array [0..3] of string = ('test0','test01','test002','test0003');
-Dave-
Dave,
Well, in the absence of a M2 by any reputable U.S. firm (whom I would
consider supporting with my purchasing power :^} I think I'll have to check
out the Hi-Soft Pascal.
Thanks for the info.
wmc
Wayne,
If you're interested, I have some "AmigaDOS" programming examples in HiSoft
Pascal. If you're interested, I can upload them to CIS for you to look at.
Straight Pascal programming is a breeze, AmigaDOS programming in HSP can
take a little getting used to, but it's all pretty straightforward. You
have to remember that AmigaDOS is based on C and C is expected (more or
less).
Let me know…
-Dave
David (and anyone else who's been using HiSoft Pascal):
PLEASE upload any examples you wouldn't mind posting! It would be a great
help to some of us neophyte programmers. (Well, I do have a minor in
computer science, but that Pascal experience was on a Vax, and back in
1983-85… And I haven't done much programming since then.)
Anyway, any example code, from the simple to the bizarre, would be GREATLY
appreciated!
Denny,
I uploaded a bunch of stuff to GEnie a couple weeks ago, but it was never
put up in the library. I wonder why?!?
I'll upload a file today.
-Dave
Dave,
Thanks for the offer. I used (still do on occasion) M2SPrint a fair
amount. I've also had to use M2 and Pascal in C environments on PC and
Vax. I've had the pleasure of resolving those bass ackward parameter
passes etc. I think I'll wait to take you up on the offer until I: a) get
the compiler b) get myself in trouble with it (shouldn't be too hard).
I would, however, be interested in y our observations on Ados RKM support
in the Hi-Soft package. DO they supply source a la M2Sprint? Or just
calls and synopsis?
wmc
No, they only supply what amounts to an uncommented C->Pascal translation
of the C includes. The function calling stubs are visible, too.
The source to the TP units and the regular Pascal functions are not
included.
-Dave
Dave, What is supplied sounds typical, actually. M2Sprint was really
unusual with all the source included without having to get a "developer
kit".
wmc
David,
Don't remember the beginning of this thread–maybe I just missed it–but I
do remember a post where someone described HiSpeed Pascal by HiSoft as
having a "Turbo Pascal (by Borland) feel"… or something like that. You
seem to be reasonably familiar with it. Is that statement correct
(justified). For instance, does it have an integrated editor?
I learned what programming I know by way of Turbo Pascal, and it was nice
to have some of those special function that were not part of standard
Pascal. Is anything like that available in HiSpeed Pascal?
As someone noted elsewhere in this thread, the Amiga is really a "C"
machine. Any suggestions on the best way to learn C if one already knows
some other languague like Pascal.
via Whap! Al Benglen
74615,500
HiSoft Pascal is TurboPascal v5.0 compatible (mostly). That doesn't mean it
looks or sounds like TurboPascal though, it is most definitely an Amiga
styled program editor.
If you're interested in it, take a look at AC Tech Vol 2 Issue 3. There's a
review in there with some pictures of the IDE. Keep in mind that the review
is for v1.0 and you DO want v1.1. Not many changes except that the AmigaDOS
2.0 support units are in there.
As for learning C… I don't know what to say there. There's not that much
difference. If you really know Pascal, then C is just around the corner.
There are lots of books…
-Dave
Dave,
Thanks for your help and information.
via Whap! Al Benglen
74615,500
AL,
I beg to differ with David Czaya on his comment "As for learning C …
(t)here's not that much difference." As an experianced C programmer with a
fair amount of Pascal experiance, I think there is a lot of difference. Of
course, if you know the basics of good programming style (Pascal is ideal
for learning this), you can transfer all of what you know to C. However, C
is a much more "open" language. "You want to store that integer into a
misdirected character in the center of the operating system code? Go for
it." Good bet for learning "Teach youself C"
Learning your first computer language is hard. The second is easier. By
the time you learn your third, you know what to look for that is the same.
After that, you learn how to look it up in the reference books.
Bill Roberts in Ellettsville In. via Whap!
What I meant was that there isn't that much difference between the syntax
and semantics of the languages. Once you know Pascal, C isn't that hard to
pick up on and vice versa.
If you really dig in, you can, of course, find many differences between the
two; the chief difference being, as you point out, that Pascal is strongly
"typed" while C is a "go for it" language.
Amen to that! As an experienced C programmer, I found Pascal to be
backwards! I would always get confused declaring variables and trying to
keep the structure declarations straight. A the time I was heavily
programming in C, I was trying to take a data structures class in Pascal.
Every night I would come home to do my homework, I would take about 15
minutes to reorient myself to pascal. It is true that they are close, but
I don't think that is all that good. I have never had any problem mixing
up C and FORTRAN, for instance. Another problem I had was that while
programming in "standard" pascal, I would always try to add one to the
value of the pointer (the address). This is allowable in C but is a no-no
in pascal. As for the compiler, I think I will buy it, because the pascal I
have now is the MetaComCo MCC Pascal, which is next to useless (I could
never get it to do pointers correctly). Even though I had this compiler, I
chose to use the Ultrix system pascal compiler through a 2400 baud modem
because it was faster. Anyway, enough rambling…where's that order form!
L. Johnson
Of course, Pascal also has some nice shorthands for dealing with structured
types…. (Hey "C" — Whither "With?")
I'm slowly — VERY slowly — moving from Pascal (turbo type on PC clones)
to "C". And I'm _so_ glad "C" was NOT my first programming language (some
colleges _tried_ to teach intro programming courses using "C" — wotamess).
Just _TRY_ to explain the concept of a pointer to someone who's still
unclear on what a _variable_ is!
Brian
– via Whap!
Bill,
Thanks for the added comment about learning C. Any thoughts on which C
compiler available for the Amiga is best?
via Whap! Al Benglen
74615,500
BTW, check out AC/Tech 2.3 (the latest) for a review of HiSoft Pascal. Keep
in mind the lead time, as the review covers v1.0 only. Not much has changed
aside from the inclusion of the 2.0 units.
-Dave
Steven,
HiSoft BASIC wasn't abandoned. They're working on 2.0, should ship soon.
Denny,
Well, at least somebody is aware of it. Who's got it now? I have
never received any information since I became a registered owner some 2 or
3 years ago when it belonged to Michtron. Have they sent out upgrade
notices? How can I check to see if they have my name on the registered
owner's list?
Steven,
It's not quite out yet. HiSoft doesn't have a US office, but the big Amiga
distributors are carrying their products anyway (IE: American Software
carries HiSoft Pascal). When it ships I should get get a review copy; I'll
ask them about upgrade policies for folks who bought the first HiSoft BASIC
from Michtron.
Denny,
I would surely appreciate that. I did a lot of programming with
Hisoft and would certainly look forward to an upgraded version. Any chance
I could do the review for you? I've done numerous product reviews years
ago for CP/M products and recently had a review of RexxPlus Compiler
published in Amazing Amiga. I'm a college professor (business) with
excellent writing skills. I am very knowledgeable of Basic and have used
every Basic on the Amiga except AMOS and BlitzBasic. I work for free (if
you normally pay reviewers, you can donate my stipend to charity.)
Steven,
How are you? When you say you had a review published in "Amazing Amiga,"
do you mean "Amazing Computing" Magazine, or is there a new publication
out? I've never heard of a magazine called "Amazing Amiga."
Dom Fontana
Dom,
One and the same. I guess I should get it right — Amazing
Computing/Amiga
Steven,
I thought it might be one and the same. Just for the record, the name is
"Amazing Computing" for the Commodore Amiga. It's displayed something like
this:
AMAZING /
/ AMIGA
COMPUTING /
The slash (/) contains the words "for the Commodore".
So you read it top to bottom. Then the slash and what's to the right,
simply tells you what computer the magazine is for, but it's not part of
the name at all. If you look at the masthead and the other info in the
magazine, the name is strictly "Amazing Computing".
Dom Fontana
Denny,
Count me in for wanting to upgrade to HiSoft Basic 2.0. I, too, bought the
original version from Michtron.
Dom Fontana
Dave –
Thanks for the reply. My local dealer was supposed to tell me when it
was available. Guess I'll have to go have a talk with him … 8^). What's
the price range on it, and how close to Turbo is it?
Harry
Well, I paid $99 from Creative. I think it lists for roughly twice that. I
got my v1.0 in early March and just got v1.1 a week or so ago. Make sure
you get v1.1 or you'll have to pay for an upgrade.
V1.1 has the 2.0 support units and a bunch of new things and fixes. V1.0
runs perfectly under 2.0, but doesn't have the 2.0 units (roughly
equivilent to .h includes).
-Dave