#Rumor Update
45 messages in this thread
The rumor mill has slowed down the last 10 days or so, so here are the
latest and greatest from sources who have no problem with being identified
…
From Gilles Bourdin, an Amiga developer in France, 29 may, 1994
——
Hi all,
There haven't been much news these last days and lots of rumours again.
The status is still the same, Commodore and Samsung are now negociating
bits and pieces. Commodore employees are not allowed to reveal the name
of Samsung in public yet. Internal news are tending towards a finalization
in the near future (Commodore could be Samsung on Monday, actually, it's
quite imminent). Apparently, Commodore would like more money than Samsung
is willing to pay, that's why it takes so long.
There's been a rumour floating around on Usenet, saying that Samsung will
get the Amiga line and leave the CD 32 to Phillips. This is not true. As
told before, the main point in the negociations between the two firms is
that The ENTIRE Amiga product line is to be maintained and in no way
splitted around among several companies or taken apart for some part of
its technology.
No news wether or not the production has started again in the Philippines,
there was also a rumour about this but no one at Commodore Germany could
confirm or deny this. So it may be true… or not.
Apparently, Commodore Germany is still delivering to distributors in
Germany and now also to France. There has been a delivery of 70 A4000Ts in
Braunschweig (subsidiary of Commodore Germany) a few weeks ago and all of
them are sold out by now.
The assets of Commodore France have been transferred to Braunschweig,
where most of the computing stuff was sold at an auction.
There are 3 or 4 other companies than Samsung on the line, which are
seriously interested in Commodore and the Amiga. Samsung is the only
company Commodore is negociating with though, for now.
Commodore employees in Frankfurt were paid this month.
Commodore Germany is running as usual.
I know this is not extraordinary stuff, but there's no need at this point
to make false scoops if there's nothing more to report.
——
From Terry Rickan, an attendee of the MultiMedia '94 exhibition in
Toronto … 28 May 1994
——
As of Thursday, CBM staff appearing at the Multimedia 94 exhibition in
Toronto were openly acknowledging the fact that Samsung had placed a
bid for the company, and had already presented a proposed $2 million
North American marketing campaign to the trustees. What has yet to be
determined is who will ultimately make the acquisition. Despite the
assumptions that Samsung is a certainty, Philips appears to think
otherwise. On Thursday morning they upped the ante, and rekindled the
buyout race. In either case, the trustees have supposedly made it a
mandate that any company which succeeds in acquiring the technology
must in principle have an intention to continue producing Amigas.
They can't regulate this once the takeover has been made, but they can
use it as leverage in determining who gets what.
According to CBM Canada, there is a strong likelihood that this
situation will be resolved on Tuesday, with a press release to follow.
——
From Mike Smithwick, author of Distant Suns by VRLI, 25-May-94
Just a bit-o-news I heard today while down at my publisher's
World Headquarters. Our marketing person was on the phone
in the corner, hung up and said something to the effect :
"the Samsung deal went through".
Her contact was someone who should be "in the know". And she
confirmed the NewTek/CA/Samsung meetings. Anyway, apparently the
deal has been agreed upon, and now some final paperwork has to
be finalized, and we should get the announcement by the
fabled May 31st date. If it falls through, there are a number
of other companies standing in the wings to take over.
Our marketing person used to work for Samsung and feels that
it would be a very good match.
Oh, BTW, it would now be known as the Samsung Amiga. The commodore
name will apparently be dropped.
mike
——
There are a LOT of rumors floating around … Samsung closed the deal,
Samsung backed out, Philips outbid Samsung, Sony bought Amiga, Commodore
bought Samsung, Amstrad wants Amiga for 1 more good Xmas, etc.
So many rumors out there — take your pick — there's enough for everyone.
-sja
Ya know… I find it quite amazing that the honcho's at C= would give a
damn whether the Amiga line continued or not.
It almost looks as tho SOMEONE in the higher ups cared a bit more than
they EVER let on.
Chris – Fast and Low on my '020!
"MicroSoft": from Micro = small, and Soft = limp.
IF the rumors are true. 🙂
And, I hope they are.
Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on Autopilot!
Cheyenne, Wyoming U.S.A.
I was thinking the same thing. I'll give ali & irv credit if this
is true, at least they didn't sell out and sell it bits and peices.
I also give them credit with thhe fact that they stood up to ibm
and mac as a third platform, not to many comp. did that.
After the work they put into the AAA chip I'm glad they didn't sell
it to ibm (they've stolen enough from the amiga) they may have trip and
stumbled but if they stick to the guns they're alright with me.
ahhhh..maybe…we'll see.
Either they cared, or more likely, they have some personal interest in the
technology which means that should the Ami continue to be made, they would
benefit (royalties/rights etc.).
Another scenario would be that if the Ami were to continue, someone in the
know would need to run the Samsung division/subsiduary and gues who that
might be <g>. This is unlikely as I'm sure Samsung know that one of the
reasons that C= failed is the mismanagement…
Kevin 68030/40 A1200…
On AutoPilot from Surrey in the UK
Kevin,
Whomever may purchase the Amiga technology is going to have to tackle several
problems with the existing systems.
One, the 8520 CIA chips, and several other support chips on the A1200 and
A4000, were manufactured at Commodore Semiconductor Group (CSG).
Unfortunately, these chips were manufactured with very dated (10 years or more)
equipment. In fact, all current semiconductor manufacturers would not be able
to produce these chips today… except maybe in Russia. How ironic! ;-}
AAA may be cheaper to produce and can be manufactured by todays technology.
The new owners will have to make a decision in either firing up the old CSG
plant until AAA. Or they may go ahead and do development of AAA until IT is
ready. That would mean the Amiga community would be in limbo for at least
another 9 months, if not more.
Regards,
John Chang
Technical Support Manager
Scala, Inc.
We already put full CIA emulation into one ASIC (Akiko). I had to make
sure it was right for everything an 8520 could do, not just the parts that
would be brought out for the CD32 (two whole 8520s are in there, but not
all pins are brought out on the package).
Should now be easy to put the 8520s and lots of other glue into one ASIC
for every Amiga system.
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
Whatdajjawaitingfor? If you could make 'explosive-resistant' CIA's out of
them you could score big 🙂 I guess Commodore wouldn't mind the
competition ;-D Make some blowyourCIAwhenpullingtheplug-resistant CIA's
and sell 'em!
-MaRiO- -= Intel inside! (…my washing machine) =-
Dale,
The Akiko was fabricated by whom? In any case, this is good news! ;-}
Regards,
John Chang
Technical Support Manager
Scala, Inc.
Why does who's fab matter?
I don't know who did final fab (I think we had multiple vendors), but VLSI
did the Arizona (December 7) prototype.
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
Dale,
From your answer, I can now assume that the Akiko can be manufactured by
anyone. Good.
Regards,
John Chang
Technical Support Manager
Scala, Inc.
John,
It appears as though whatever happens will not revive the Amiga short of a
miracle!
Lets start praying…<g>
Kevin 68030/40 A1200…
On AutoPilot from Surrey in the UK
Kevin,
Oh, the Amiga technology will survive. If it survives as a desktop computer is
the miracle we are waiting for.
Regards,
John Chang
Technical Support Manager
Scala, Inc.
CIA's are so simple internally that _any_ decent semiconductor house could
whip up replacements in literally a week or two, given the reason (funds)
to do so. And using modern line widths and tech instead of the old stuff.
And that in turn could lead to an Amiga with outside world interfacing
that isn't dog slow – which _every_ Amiga's is.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
>CIA's are so simple internally that _any_ decent semiconductor house
>could whip up replacements in literally a week or two
False.
The problem with the 8520s is that there is no documentation for them,
and, to be compatible with all the games and music software and whatnot,
they must work exactly like the real McCoy. When we did the 8520
emulation for Akiko, the only docs we used were schematics and the RKM:
Hardware manual. It was not a simple process and it took several months.
This was using C='s internal resources!
Hence, you also couldn't make 8520s that were faster without losing
compatibility. Admitedly, I'd be happy to see compatibility go in return
for fast ports, but that'd also mean new system software (and a new
Paula).
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
Dale,
How difficult (by the way I am back!) do you think it would be to produce
the current line of machines with a revised motherboard that included the
Akiko chip instead of the 8520s?
Right now the supply situation is awful. It would take _fill in your own
rumor company here_ quite a while to build a new machine using AAA or
whatever and there is high demand now for product.
-mark=
Otto Pilot Engaged..
You couldn't use Akiko as-is to replace 8520s. If you brought out all the
pins on an ASIC designed to replace the 8520s in a "normal" Amiga system,
I don't imagine that it'd be any more difficult than any other new board
layout — you might even be able to revise an existing layout.
ASIC is a relatively expensive way to replace the 8520s, though. On CD32,
it went in there because there was going to be an ASIC anyway, and the
8520s could fit in a corner of the chip. Because of the form we now have
the 8520 emulation in, though, we could now drop it into a lot of places.
The systems guys and chip weanies could provide more options and details,
this really isn't my area of expertise.
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
It seems to me that if _ rumor company _ could get a product to market now
they would probably sell more machines in a week than Commodore did last
year.
Way does it take Commodore collapsing for all the AMIGA supports to decide
that now they need a new machine.
PC owners upgrade chip set by chip set. If they don't the new software
simply wont work !! !!
In the Amiga world people are still expecting the latest software to run
on their 10 year old 1000's and 500's.
:: How's my DRIVING – 100036,174 – ON AUTOPILOT ::
:: WES TATTERS, BRIZ 31, AUSTRALIA ::
People buy PCs to get work done. They spend money on them. Most Amigas
are sold for games, hobbies or home use. Very different expectation of
how much money to spend on them.
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
I saw a pic of the 4000T in a euro-rag today – what a nice looking unit.
Really. I'm going to try and find one.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
"In the Amiga world people are still expecting the latest software to run
on their 10 year old 1000's and 500's."
I find it deeply encouraging that the people with their "10" year old 1000s,
500s and such ARE able to run the latest software, thanks to some creative
engineering of third party developers.
Kim
Wes,
"In the Amiga world people are still expecting the latest software to run
on their 10 year old 1000's and 500's."
Interesting observation, one that I have mulled over for quite some
time. I suspect this attitude is a result of a commodity's acceptance as
either a "home" or "professional" entity. It seems to me that "home"
commodities are expected to (or at least hope will) last forever – you
know: the TV, the VCR, the fridge, the stove, etc., and are only replaced
when they break (or you win the lottery!). On the other hand,
"professional" commodities are supposedly evaluated for their capability,
and so you should expect to see continuing improvements/upgrades to meet
the "professional's" needs and desires because they will spend the money
for those improvements. I leave it to your imagination what all this
means, but I think it reveals something about both the user and the
developer communities in the Amiga universe – at least in the US…
EdV
Untill the advent of Windows 3.x there was little that wouldn't run, hoever
slowly, on the old machines. Even when 3.0 came out, most stuff would still
run on a 286. It has been the last couple of years, and OS2/2.x that have
required a 386 or better. So the older chips have has a long fun, even in the
Dos world. and as long you are running straight non Windows programs, most of
the current stuff, will still run on the old machines. Even the latest Dos
6.21 will run on the old machines.
On the other hand, Amiga with a limited user base, and relatively small sales,
had to be backwards compatible to have enough base to attract developers. When
you figure that more Dos boxes get sold per year, than all Amigas ever sold,
you can understand why they can write software that demands newer technology.
No, it's not false at all. It can be done, and it can be done _easily_. If
you think otherwise, you're quite wrong.
The speed of the chips in situ is due to the incoming clock. A faster chip
coul dbe made (again, _easily_) at the current rates by continuing to
clock it slowly.
8520's are _nothing_ with regard to complexity – if CBM didn't doc them,
well, there you go, eh? That's certainly a problem, but not one that is
killer. There _are_ docs for older chips that are ___extremely___ similar
(MOS 6522 VIA's come to mind immediately… similar right down to the
bizzarre way the flags are handled and the wacko timers work – and they're
very well doc'ed, too) and I wouldn't be the least surprised if a lot of
the "missing" info would be found right in other chip docs. I can't say
that "using C= internal resources" fills me with a vision of incredible
power turned on a problem. Quite the contrary. I see no reason at all why
this would be a hard task, simply given the $$$ to use the proper
resources to get it done.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
How is a "faster chip… [clocked] at current rates" going to get you
faster ports?
"Commodore's internal resources" doesn't mean huge $$$, but it does mean
access to just about all the 8520 knowledge that exists in the world.
Perhaps it could have been done more quickly with more than two full-time
people on it, but not "in a week or two."
At any rate, it's now a moot point, because the 8520 emulation has now
been captured in a form than can easily be dumped to any fab house for
production of packages that do the same job.
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
Faster parts could go in an Amiga that had switchable clock rates – easily
done. Lots of PC's do that now with processors and/or I/o, in order to
work with some of the games, etc, that just won't run in the more
sophisticated environments. Or, they could go in an Amiga that was "new
generation – IE, not a game machine.
The idea of my 40 mhz machine slowing down to 700 kilohertz still fills me
with ennui and itch. I'm one of those unfortunates who has a product that
runs real-time stuff with the 8520's; and I can't think of a way to slow
the machine down more without clogging chip ram to death.
Time.. Ok… lets say a month. :^) Better?
And like you say, it's moot now.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
Think about how many non-games use the CIAs directly — anything with
strict timing requirements. It's not a hack, it's the "supported" way to
do things. It's not a matter of a game-machine vs. a non-game machine.
Of course, I've long thought that it was about time the Amiga OS got a
completely non-compatible release. Might as well get rid of the stupid
CIAs altogether at that point and find off-the shelf with better
performance. Time to port/recompile every application for the new system.
There are too many things that can't be added or fixed without something
like this.
I suppose now it's too late and a little impossible, though…
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
Doing a CIA is simple in any gate array chip.. The interface to the outside
world and to the processor is the limiting factor.. No doubt that the present
CIA could be speed up tremenduosly though..
-Tom_
by the way, does IMRT really want 2-M of chip ram?
Maybe you missed something. The 8520s are ancient C64-era technology, not
gate arrays. Though we now have a gate array emulation of the 8520s that
was created for Akiko.
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
Wouldn't it be possible to do like people have done in the PC world and
create serial chips that had FIFO buffering and a fallback mode to the
original chipset… We have done that with AGA<->ECS chipsets.
-Jonathan
// Amiga online via Autopilot. MAC Quadra 900 and
\\// 486 emulation. E-Mail: jonathanb@delrina.com
You could do a FIFO without letting anyone know you had it. But that is
Paula, not 8520s.
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
Steve,
frankly, while I'm not usually a pessimist when it comes to this
platform, I'll believe any of this when I see it. I know you only quote
what is out there, but there are serious problems with the postings to
date.
If Samsung were serious, the news should have been out by now and it
hasn't been. Samsung has always had a problem in their microcomputer
divsion with serious losses and I can understand why they might want to
consider picking up CA to replace their current clone line. However, the
delays speak volumes in terms of their decisiveness here. I firmly
believe that if they were that committed to picking up the entire line, it
would have been announced in a couple of weeks. Instead we linger on by
death's door.
Ergo, they aren't that serious about continuing the line. If they
were, the buyout would be fact and the first advert campaign would have
been started. A month lag is deadly in this industry. Sad but truth.
The Four Seasons of Southern California:
Fire, Flood, Earthquake, and Riot.
I have to disagree. I've been through a buyout, and even when the participants
are serious, it is the longest, maddening, drawn out process you can imagine.
Sometimes companies move slowly, but more often it occurs over a period of
months, not weeks.
The surprising thing to me is that I thought Commodore had a May 30th court
date in the Bahamas to start the bankruptcy proceedings. Did I remember this
right, and if so, did it happen, and if so, what happened? That should give us
quite a few clues there.
-R
Rusty,
From what I hear (rumor), the Trustees and Liquidator requested a week
extension on the court date. It seems that the "bean counters" are still
trying to get the books straight. A nightmare I could not wish on my own worst
enemy!
In any case, the court date will probably only reveal who is officially
interested in purchasing, in part and/or whole, assets of Commodore.
Regards,
John Chang
Technical Support Manager
Scala, Inc.
Which set of books are they trying to get straight?
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
Dale,
Their overdue library books of course! ;-}
Regards,
John Chang
Technical Support Manager
Scala, Inc.
Grin…
-mark=
Otto Pilot Engaged..
> Which set of books are they trying to get straight?
10.0!
ROFLMAO
-larry
>> In any case, the court date will probably only reveal who is officially
interested in
>> purchasing, in part and/or whole, assets of Commodore.
That alone would quell many of the rumors, and get at least some information on
the plate for review/discussion/fresh rumor building. The old Phillips is
going to buy CD32 to kill it, rumor is getting pretty tired. Besides I happen
to have heard that he doesn't have that kind of money. <g>
> Phillips is going to buy CD32 to kill it, rumor …
Right… wouldn't do it. I would love to buy IBM and Intel and kill them both,
though. I mean, hey, if I am just wishing, I may as well wish big. 🙂
-larry
If phillips is gonna kill CD32 I'm gonna stop being Dutch….
-MaRiO- -= Intel inside! (…my washing machine) =-
Confucius say: "A bird in hand makes it hard to blow nose"
Nononono… Phillips is not Dutch. Phillips is sort of a mongrel English and
Welsh and Scots and probably a few more. Philips, on the other hand, is Dutch.
-larry
>Phillips is sort of mongrel English and Welsh and Scots and probably a
few more>
Sounds like a thoroughbred American. <g>
Pete Jones Thoroughbred Brit(English, Irish, Scots, Welsh, Spanish,
Jewish, and probably a few more!) flying on AutoPilot from Brussels,
Belgium
Peter, you sure do know how to insult a guy, don't you..
Calling Larry an "American", really!
He is a CANADIAN.
As am I, thoroughbred too, half irish, half ukranian! So you better watch
what you say, eh!
73, Kelly
"There are a LOT of rumors floating around … Samsung closed the deal,
Samsung backed out, Philips outbid Samsung, Sony bought Amiga, Commodore
bought Samsung, Amstrad wants Amiga for 1 more good Xmas, etc.
So many rumors out there — take your pick — there's enough for
everyone."
Hehe!! I bet the Bandito is going crazy right now. Talk about burn out 8^)
// John (Speeding on the Information Superhighway)
\X/ Mercury@ins.infonet.net