CompuServe Thread

#Poco "Separate Tool"

7 messages in this thread
#107481From: Charles MeierJun 13, 1994 5:12 PM
HI, I can only find a subset of Animator "Tools" supported in POCO. Is this true ? I am trying to implement a mega sep tool where one would drect a rectangle and change all colors within to the key color. I see that I might accomplish the same "look" by pallette fiddling, but I'd rather preserve the pallette and change the pixel colors. I have this running with a home grown sep, but before I get too far, I wanted to make sure that I couldnt just set up the args and call sep…
#107500From: dave aguilarJun 13, 1994 6:18 PM
/* HI,I can only find a subset of Animator "Tools" supported in POCO. Is this true? */ There are several POCO routines supplied in the RESOURCE subdirectory, Charles. Is this what you're refering to? /* I am trying to implement a mega sep tool where one would drect a rectangle and change all colors within to the key color. I see that I might accomplish the same "look" by pallette fiddling, but I'd rather preserve the pallette and change the pixel colors. */ I don't understand you goal. Are you asking if there's a way to use SEP (separate) in a local area rather than in the entire frame? If so, there is a toggle BOXED which allows you to define a rectangle and separate inside it's boundaries only. Using the T (time) toggle, you can apply separation to an entire flic, a region of a flic, an entire frame or a region of a frame. -dave
#107690From: Dennis ConklinJun 14, 1994 4:14 PM
I think you are right in your presumption – everything that you can do in AniPro cannot be done in POCO. I don't remember a SEP tool available in POCO, but the books are at home so I can't check right now. I think you mean that you want to write a megasep that will perform the SEP function on every color found within a user-drawn box – is that right? If so there is no "simple" way to do this that I know of, so your routine is probably the right way to go. I presume you will be implementing the Mega-SEP as a screenwide app (area of application), without the "BOXED" option that regular SEP tool uses? That is what Dave is referring to in his message (I think). We're always glad to see someone playing with POCO!!
#107749From: Charles MeierJun 14, 1994 10:10 PM
Thanks, That is indeed what I'm after. I seem to have dropped some words in my initial note. Maybe I can do better with the note editor in WinCIM. Anyhow, my goal is to remove a "blue" background from a foreground object. Blue, however as seen by my video camera -> frame grabber -> Animator Pro is really many shades of blue. Sep w/ time works well, but I'm wearing out my mouse, index finger, and eyes doing the cleanup. My thought was to initially draw a user defined box and scan it storing unique pixel colors in an array. Then for each color in the array, I would call sep and save my fingers. I am doing this primarily to try out POCO. After a little success, I forsee some routines that will automatically isolate foreground elements from a blue background. I have also been trying to write a POCO that will pull a difference matte (shoot the scene with the character and without) and "subtract" the background away from the character. However, the pixel colors drift so much that I will need a very "forgiving" difference routine. Hmmm??? Any news on 24 bit color from Ani Pro ? I must say that I am very pleased to see "C" (seesee) as the Ani Pro macro language. My day job is to write windows and OS/2 programs so having a "C"-terp feels good as I plod along at home late into the evenings… To whoever is listening, It would seem to be a good thing is all of the functions in Ani Pro could be invoked via POCO. In most 4GLs the language is crippled, thereby limiting what can be done. In Ani Pro, the language is robust, but some core product functionality is blocked. It would seem that it is much easier to add function on a firm foundation, however, so I'm not going to whine… Perhaps someday, the Ani Pro user interface would be a POCO (easily extensible) and every thing that could be done in the product would be "C" callable. The 4GL yardstick. Can you build your entire product user interface from your 4GL ? Great Stuff, I can't wait to see what's next… Oh Say Can You "C" ?
#107848From: Dennis ConklinJun 15, 1994 11:35 AM
For your "tired fingers" (that particular app) have you thought of using sep on everything BUT the blue sky with MASK/CREATE turned on, then invert the mask and USE it to apply OPAQue ink in the key color. As far as the diff between POCO tools and AniPro tools, basically, POCO has a bunch of "extra stuff" like for every pointer POCO tracks the valid range for that ptr and quits if it tries to reference outside the valid range. This seems to be an attempt by Adesk to protect us POCO users from the infamous "loose ptr" problem. They have taken great efforts to try to keep POCO from nuking AniPro. However, there is some effort involved in taking the code used in AniPro and adding this "extra stuff" like pointer handling. the bottom line for this is that some code gets added to AniPro, but it never gets added to POCO because the "extra checking" hasn't been written. Until we POCO users can be trusted to avoid loose ptrs, and other errors, there will always be a discrepancy between AniPro tools and POCO tools (on the other hand, it's hard to complain TOO much – I didn't buy source code to AniPro, after all!).
#107861From: charles jamesonJun 15, 1994 12:30 PM
Charles, Have you found the NEAR choice and NEAR threshold in the controls for the separate control? That would let you pickup an assortment of "blues" on one pass with the SEP tool. Consider the mask idea too, because there may be some blue flecks in your foreground object that you don't want to pick up. Even a gross mask can speed up your clean up. Chuck Jameson Silver Tongue Software
#107862From: charles jamesonJun 15, 1994 12:30 PM
Regarding a difference "matte" (scene shot with and without character – goal is to extract the character). First – doing these video conversions is hard work. I've done some down to 16 colors. It just takes work in my opinion. One idea to elimiate jitter in a background is to pick a background you like, put it on the swap buffer, use a gross mask around the foreground object, and use the scrape ink. (There's a way to make a mask move overtime, but it escapes me at the moment. Oh, I think it has to do with compositing flics [time to brew some coffee <grin>].) Now, back on track. A difference matte. If there wasn't pixel drift, you could apply the MINUS ink – pixels in the same color would go to zero (color slot number) and you could use the non-zero pixels (inverted?) as a mask to pull out the character. How would this work if the colors don't match? It would work better if you could sort the palette so that the colors of the background are clustered and the colors of the character are clustered. Then the MINUS ink would give you colors near zero. Not perfect, but perhaps a step in the right direction. You could use the "logical" AND/OR/XOR inks in the same way, think about it. Other inks you should look into working with are SWEEP (to clean up single pixels), and HOLLOW (to give you outlines). Chuck Jameson Silver Tongue Software