DPS_PAR
44 messages in this thread
hi everyone.
i just installed a PAR_DPS HD recorder and i am speechless. it is unbelievable.
wooowwww!!!
if you havnt looked into it yet, do yourselves a favor and check it out.
its great!
i just had to share my excitement.
take care
ara
Ara,
join the "PAR satisfied customer club"! There's quite a few of us on-line. I
don't think I'd be out of line in calling it a revolutionary product. It's made
frame-by-frame animation obsolete (for me, at least) and got me back into video
which I'd given up on for a while there.
exactly my feelings. it is really good.
how long have you been using yours?
any thing important that i sould be aware of thats not so clear??
lets keep in touch and exchange info.
thanks
ara
Ara,
I've had the PAR/TBCiv about a month I think (lost track of time). I've just
bought a really good monitor which I should receive soon – it's a Sony P1344Q
which is has all the connections you'd need (component, y/c, composite) and
SMPTE C phospours for reference checking your images. Should last years 🙂
I don't have any other specific tips yet, since I'm a relatively new user.
Other than back-up .ani files to hardrive or tape, in case of mishap; get a
good monitor; find a good, local, place with BetaSP to dump your PAR output to.
BetaSP is where the PAR really shines even if the final output is going to be
VHS.
martin:
i just saw your heros.jpg. what a nice image. did you do the modeling from
scratch yourself or are these digitized models.
great job. i which i had that kind of talent.
by the way on your par images, do you get a lot of color banding and dittering
on gradations.
no matter what q and block size setting i use i cant get rid of dittering and
color banding?!!
i am using micropolis 2217a and q of 23 and block of all sizes and i am using
the s output for now.
please let me know if you are seeing the same effects on your par images. if
not i would like to find out what i am doing wrong.
thanks and happy paring.
ara
Ara,
>> i just saw your heros.jpg. what a nice image. did you do the modeling from
scratch yourself or are these digitized models. <<
thanks very much for the compliment. I'm very pleased with the way they turned
out. Yes, I did the modeling from scratch, _NO_ 3d digitizing. I did look at a
lot of anatomy books, video game magazines, and comic books though. One thing
I've noticed with some of the mesh people available for sale is that they
aren't very visually appealing. With the girl especially I tried to make her
attractive – somebody you'd like to date, although she is a martial arts expert
so watch what you say <G>.
amazing! where do you start with this level of modeling. how do you go about
building a shape like that??? are the musels bumpmaps or they are in the
mesh???
i would love to know.
also did you check the gradation problem with the par unit. try rendering a
background gradation which stars with black and goes to any color(use only one
hue of color). transfer it to par and check out the gradation. do you get
banding of colors???
if no, i must be doing something wrong.
please let me know
thanks
ara
Ara,
If all goes well, I'm going to be describing how to create such a human "skin"
model in a chapter in "3d Studio: Special Effects" by New Riders Publishing.
Therefore, I probably shouldn't give away too much yet <g>. That being said if
you have IPAS disk 6, then you already have the basic model upon which I based
the heroes (skhero.3ds). I have done a lot more refinement and tweaking since
then, though.
The musculature is part spline geometry, with a whole lot of bump mapping.
I'll try out your test with the PAR but I haven't seen any banding problems
with gradient background. I have seen dithering though. You may have found
JPEG's achilles heel, in which case you should avoid that scenario.
when is this book coming out?
also pleasew try my test and let me know if you get color banding.
thanks
ara
Ara,
>> when is this book coming out? <<
Lord knows! I would say definetly this year. I might even guess the 3rd quarter
<g>.
I'll try the PAR test tomorrow.
My name is on that satisfaction list as well. Been using it for about a month
now. Because I was always cost concious when using an outside rendering
facility I never rendered to fields. Now with the par, my animations look
great. I haven't run into any quarks with it at all.
Paul
i have used it for two days and i am blown away.
i love it
ara
One of the things I like the most is the amount things are actually compressed.
I have been rerendering most of my anims to fields to the PAR for use in my new
demo tape. I bought the 1 gb drive and it seems I have endless room for work.
Did you get the TBC board as well. I didn't, but would like to get that as
well. Right now I need to find a low cost svhs deck to dump these out on.
Something like a ag 1970 or 1960 Panasonic. I'd love to find one used in good
shape. I have access to a non-linear editings system on the MAC at my full time
job. I just need a way to get things initially to tape. If you hear of anyone
selling one……
Thanks, keep in touch.
Paul
i will keep an eye.
yes i did get the tbcIV and capturing video is just as unbelievable as the
animation playback. it is a must if you like rotoscoping and animated
maps!!!!!!
Definitely include myself in the "PAR Satisfied Customer Club"! Been running a
PAR/TBCIV/2217 config for about 2 weeks now. I was looking for an affordable
high quality video capture system, but did not expect the results I got
recording from svhs laserdisk. Phenomenal! It takes a really good eye to tell
the difference and in a blind test I still could not tell you what was original
video and what was PAR.
Add to that 24-bit 752×480 30fps animation rendering to tape and rotoscoping,
products of this type are a must-have. I really hope DPS starts promoting
their product in PC magazines.
Two items… Been searching for a good way to sync sound for editting. I know
Amiga has SunRize. Been thinking of using a sampler with the GPS Trigger and
good Sample Midi Dump. Anybody have a good solution? Also, considering the
quality compression of STL and ANM PAR Files, anybody thinking of transferring
24-bit hi-res images over the net yet?
— Karl
karl:
three things:
1- I LOVE PAR
2- have you noticed any color banding in gradations? try this: with 3ds creat a
backround gradation from black to any color. render the farme and send to par.
do you see any color banding in the par gradation. (the 24 bit display is very
smooth). i get a lot of banding!!!
3)i captured some video with par. with 3ds i made a material using the captured
ani. set the par pxp to animation/increment/targa/0,. mapped the material on an
object and rendered a flic. the map only used the 1st frame of the captued
video ani. it did not increment.(i used a ani file name of arag0000.ani with
par when capturing the video).
do you also have this problem?
please let me know.
other than this two, i love this thing. i keep shaking my head in disbelief
every time i use it.
thanks
ara
I have been successful with animated texture maps generated by PAR coming off
TGA's translated to my normal hard drive. I took a captured image from
broadcast (about 180 frames), stuck it on a quick JumboVision sign, and
animated 180 frames. Most cool. I have not yet spend much time importing
animated texture maps imported directly from PAR, so its a process I cant help
you with, YET.
Have not tried color banding tests.
— Karl
there is a small bug in the pxp that allows direct rotoscoping of video into
3ds. it only increments the frames of the ani files evrytime the renderer is
activated. for the duration a the particular render all frame remain as the
first frame when the rendering was started. if one aborts rendering and
restarts rendering again the frame will advance by one and remain the same for
the rest of that rendering and so on.
monday i will call dps and report this problem.
they have a new pxp in their bbs which they claim has fixed this problem, but i
have downloaded it and it still gives me the same problem.
please try the gradation problem and let me know what you get.
thanks
ara
Ara,
I tried your background test to the PAR with red to black, blue to black,
magenta to black, and I don't see _any_ banding at all. Nothing.
May I suggest that you may have set your Q-factor or block limits too low and
forgotten about them. Also make sure you are not sending 16-bit targa files to
the PAR with the Render options set to 16-bit accidently.
It's clear there's something not quite right in your setup.
my q factor and block are set to the highest settings possible.
i still get collor banding. i will upload an stl file for you to see.
and i am also setting 3ds to 24bit
ara
Ara,
go ahead and upload a .stl file. I'm very curious as to what you are seeing
because I'm not, at least on the crappy TV.
Martin:
i talked to dps today and they said that it is a board problem and they have
had this happen to a couple of other boards. i fedexed the card to them and
they are going to fedex me a new one(super service, it seems like dps really
has it all together. cool operation!). any way i hope i get my card by Th. and
i will let you know how things are then.
i will also upload a file called parprob.zip for you to see.
thanks
ara
martin
i just realized that by not having my par card i can not access my stl file to
upload. as soon as i have my par back i will upload a befor anf after file to
see the differance.
take care
ara
Karl,
>> in a blind test I still could not tell you what was original video and what
was PAR. <<
back in the early days of pre-release PC PAR's Alan Iglesias and Greg Pyros
came up with a similar conclusion after capturing some video from the
LucasFilm's THX laser disk. I saw the captured output too and it was very
watchable.
So far, I've had a crappy TV to view the output, but next week I'm getting a
prodution/reference monitor – it's the 13" Sony P1344q – and I should be able
to really see the output shine 🙂
Can't help you on the sound stuff, although maybe Don Landis will jump in and
let us know what he's up to in that area. It's ironic you should have mentioned
uploading .ANI's or .STL files – I was thinking, wouldn't it be a laugh to be
the first person to upload such a file format <g>.
Amazing, that is JUST the Laserdisk I used, Empire Strikes Back THX. I also
used Criterion's The Player. I could even pick up the drop outs found on the
original video. I have found that with Letterbox video, you can pump up the Q
Factor into the 20's. Also, I found that running PAR recorded broadcast and
then turning on the TV's Closed Caption option, the Closed Caption appeared
cleanly.
Anyhow, I am suspecting there would need to be a second machine involved or a
high quality sampler to capture and play simultaneously. Just dont know if I
can run a sound capture in background (interupt) on the same machine. Could do
a two-pass as well. In any event, I suspect any kind of real editting would be
confined to short intros and animation, meaning I would create a soundtrack
anyway.
— Karl
Karl,
>> Empire Strikes Back THX. <<
not quite. It was the LucasFilm THX demo which included lots of clips from
LusasFilm's. Indiana Jones, Empire Strikes Back etc, etc.
Sounds like you have sound interesting ideas for PAR, way beyond or at least
quite different from my ideas 🙂
>> So far, I've had a crappy TV to view the output, but next week I'm getting a
>> prodution/reference monitor – it's the 13" Sony P1344q – and I should be able
>> to really see the output shine 🙂
Martin,
Hows it going? You will REALLY like this monitor. I enjoyed mine for the
two weeks I had it (started having strange problems, returned it, and was
told a new one was about on it's way. I guess it was really broke <g>).
Sure hated going back to the TV screen.
I also hope they get the PAR to increment the frames for rotoscoping. Hated
trasferring the .ani to .tga's …and so did my HD!
Ralph
Ralph,
the monitor should show up this week. I'm getting a B-stock. Good deal. I'm
trying to finish up writing today and tomorrow (absolute, drop-dead,
no-more-chances-buddy, deadline). Just taking a quick break on CI$.
I'm confused about the PAR rotoscoping deal. I've been able to do this for
multiple layer VP composites, reading frames back from the PAR drive. Can't
think exactly what I did, right now, but it should be possible.
>> I'm confused about the PAR rotoscoping deal. I've been able to do this for
>> multiple layer VP composites, reading frames back from the PAR drive. Can't
>> think exactly what I did, right now, but it should be possible.
Martin,
I tried everything to to have the Studio read successive frames off of the
PAR with no luck at all. Did all the manual said to do PLUS some. The
only thing I didn't try was creating an IFL to read the frames. Maybe I'll
try that later as I completed the job by copying tga's back to my HD. No
rush, but if you remember how you set that up I'd be grateful!
Ralph
Ralph,
>> I didn't try was creating an IFL to read the frames. <<
that's it exactly! You need to use IFL files, and then you set dpspar.pxp up
for filename (I think).
>> that's it exactly! You need to use IFL files, and then you set dpspar.pxp up
>> for filename (I think).
Figured it might be the only thing I didn't try, Martin. Will give that a
try when I get a free minute 🙂
Ralph
>>i just installed a PAR_DPS HD recorder and i am speechless. it is
unbelievable. wooowwww!!!<<
Ara,
DITTO!!!!! Our productivity has increased phenomenally since being
rocketed into the PAR dimension.
I wanted to send a similar message our first few days with it but for
some reason couldn't pull away long enough.
Installating the PAR & the TCB IV was the smoothest peripheral addition
I've ever experienced.
Bravo to Digital Processing Systems!
Randy,
ComWorks Communications, Inc.
right on!!
i have never installed anything so smoothly. it is a great product.
one question for you:
when i record animations or stills with smooth gradations, the images on the
par side look more like 16 bit or even 8 bit images. a lot of color banding and
dittering.i have tried q and block size settings but i cant get smooth
gradations and cant get rid of the dittering.
am i doing something wrong or this is the best i can expect now.
keep in touch
ara
>>when i record animations or stills with smooth gradations, the images on the
par side look more like 16 bit or even 8 bit images. a lot of color banding and
dittering.i have tried q and block size settings but i cant get smooth
gradations and cant get rid of the dittering.<<
Ara,
I have also experienced this. I'm going to assume that we are both using
the NTSC output on the PAR. I first try different settings for the Q & B. If
adjusting the QFactor to 23 and the Block limit to some where around 230-240
for stills and still get the blobs and bands I adjust the Output file gamma in
3DS3 to a higher setting. Or adjust my scene illumination or both. Generally I
cannot have the QFactor set that high for ANI rendering so I sample render my
scene until the lights are right. The PAR output seems to require more refined
lighting techniques. I suppose this makes sense considering the resolution and
composite output. This ofcourse is only my experience and my solution but it
got rid of the garbage. Perhaps someone eles knows of what is happening here.
Good luck Ara, Randy
Randy,
PMJI, but I've output stuff from the PAR to Hi-8 and Beta SP and I can tell you
unequivocally, I have not seen banding or anything that resembles 16 bit output
with the exception that I once used R2 flare with R3 and it gave a really
strange effect, which its supposed to because R2 flare wasn't made for 64 bit.
I wonder what kind of gamma values you are using and what your light settings
are. The only artifacting that I've noticed on stills to any large degree is
with explosions and once they go to tape they are basically unnoticeable.
Ara sent his board in to get replaced you might consider that you have a
similar problem. FWIW
-JE
>>when i record animations or stills with smooth gradations, the images on the
par side look more like 16 bit or even 8 bit images. a lot of color banding and
dittering.i have tried q and block size settings but i cant get smooth
gradations and cant get rid of the dittering.<<
Ara,
I have also experienced this. I'm going to assume that we are both using
the NTSC output on the PAR. I first try different settings for the Q & B. If
adjusting the QFactor to 23 and the Block limit to some where around 230-240
for stills and still get the blobs and bands I adjust the Output file gamma in
3DS3 to a higher setting. Or adjust my scene illumination or both. Generally I
cannot have the QFactor set that high for ANI rendering so I sample render my
scene until the lights are right. The PAR output seems to require more refined
lighting techniques. I suppose this makes sense considering the resolution and
composite output. This ofcourse is only my experience and my solution but it
got rid of the garbage. Perhaps someone eles knows of what is happening here.
Good luck Ara, Randy
randy:
my problem has nothing to do with lighting.
i dont use any lighting or objects in 3ds to get this effect. i only setup a
background gradation; black to dark red to red, and i render the image. this is
easiest way to show the effect. also i can get the same kind of effect on
renderd spheres etc.
i talked to dps and they said that they have had this problem on a few other
boards and asked me to send my board back for exchange or repair.
they promissed they will send it back to me in two days.
so maybe you should try the background gradation test with your par and see if
you get color banding. if you do i suggest you get in touch with dps. banding
is not supposed to happen.
let me know what happens.
ara
Quick question guys. I have been using PAR since Feb and am totally spoiled.
The big question….have you totally stopped doing test render flics? I don't
even bother anymore. Also I sure would like to know of someone who I could send
a Trakker 250Mb tape to that could dump my ANI files to BetaSP.
Thanx…SW
Steve,
I don't do test flics anymore, there doesn't seem much point. I send all my
tests to the PAR, sometimes I'll render 1/4 screen to get a quicker test.
Right on. It did not take me too long to figure out that flic stuff was a thing
of the past. Not to mention the amount of disk space I have saved. And it is
nice to see real colors for a change. Save me some digging time Martin…how
are you rendering 1/4 screen to the PAR? Are you rendering 1/4 pixels, 1/4
total screen…???
..SW
Hi ARA,
I recieved my PAR just a few weeks ago. I have to agree with you — the
excitement on the forum about the PAR is not hype!
— James — MAP —
it is really great.
have you noticed any color banding on gradiants??
please let me know.
thanks ara
I have not seen any banding. I did notice some slight dithering in gradients
but only when paused on a frame of an .ANI. When played back, any dithering
becomes imperceptible.
Have you checked into your Render/Options settings? If that does not solve it,
maybe you could upload a sample ANI for me to look at.
— James — MAP —
will do
ara