#Pagestream 2.1 question
61 messages in this thread
Hello, I'm very new to DTP, I just got Pagestream 2.1 a coupla days ago.
I've played around with it and like it a lot. I have a coupla questions
though….
1) I do not own a laser printer. What do I need to do to be able to print
out a document on a laser printer hooked to an IBM? I have CrossDOS so
would it be as simple as just PRINTING my document to disk using DI0: from
pagestream? Does doing this created a totally printable stand alone file
for a postscript printer?
2) Same question as above only for a linotronic (is that what it's
called)–I want to be able to output to 1270 DPI.
If were talking Postscript output devices, the answer is YES. Simply print
to disk, and then either
C:> copy FILE.ps prn:
or
C:> print FILE.ps
If the autoexec.bat file is correctly set up (which it should be if the
PCompatible is printing) you're in business.
Another word about Postscript: the files get VERY large. I had a
ProPage document that was 18 pages long, with 3-4 hires 4bitplane images
per page. The resulting file was over 15MEGS long, which will not fit on a
720k disk. However, using lharc, I was able to crunch the file down to only
670k, then quickly decompress it with LHA on the PC (which is freeware for
individual use).
If you are using an HP, you can print to disk with the (?) CMD program,
but I've found that copying the resulting print file to a printer is a hit
or miss affair.
Jonathan
Jonathan – from Albany, NY, via whap!
15 MEGS!?!?! And it compressed down to 650K!?!?? I don't know much about
postscript or how it works but that seems to imply it's very ineffeciant.
Craig Glaser (Software Etc Milwaukee) – via Whap!
No joke, it compressed from 15 megs down to 670k, like a 96% reduction.
However, Postscript isn't inefficient, except when it comes to bitmaps. In
this case, it describes every pixel that makes one up.
However, if you were doing color seps, and sending the Postscript output
to a service bureau, you would have a similiar situation as I did. I
mentioned this because it is the best lowcost way of handling this
situation.
Jonathan
Jonathan – from Albany, NY, via whap!
I only plan on doing single–maybe double page black and whites (maybe grey
scales). I'm just a little confused with all the different fonts and
terminology. My access to a laser printer is minimal so I will be doing
most of my drafts on a 24 pin printer but I do plan on doing all me finals
on a laser OR (if cost and availability allow it) an imagesetter. The
thing that confuses me is all the different font types. If I donwload a
bunch of ADobe fonts in the library, will I be able to use them in
pagestream with satisfactory results using each of the above printing
methods? It says in the PS manual that PostScript doesn't like
Compugraphic fonts–thats fine. If I can just use all the Type 1 fonts I
want (5 or 6 MAx per document) and print the file to disk then take it in
and get it printed that would be AWSOME. That seems to be what the manual
implies I can do. I hope so…
Yup. You can use 5 or 6 Type 1's in a document, print to disk and take it
to a service bureau to print it. Ain't life grand? 🙂
Earlier this year I was publishing a program for the C128. I did the manual
with ProPage, printed to files, moved the files to PC disks with CrossDOS.
The output was from a Varityper VT600 (600 x 600dpi) and I photocopied them
on a new Xerox with metal plate quality. The photocopies looked like 300
dpi originals and that's what went in the packages.
Simple, cheap, good-looking and I didn't have to book time anywhere. Just
walked in.
Malcolm
If you stay away from bitmaps (the grayscales are Postscript patterns, so
they don't require the same kind of storage), you should be fine in terms
of file size.
Please be advised that you will need the OUTLINES in order to print to
the 24-bit printer (I have never used pagestream, but this is my
understanding); you do not need them to print on a Postscript device if the
fonts are resident or downloaded to these devices. You may need to buy
some fonts to do what you want to do. You probably want to talk to the
MIFONT people about this. You can get all of the fonts that are most often
found in Postscript devices by purchasing ATM and ATM Plus Pack for
MSWIndows, although you may have to do some leg work to generate or obtain
the .AFM files that I believe Pagestream requires. Again, talk to the
fontheads, since I am no Pagestream expert.
If you have any other generic Postscript questions, drop me a line.
Jonathan, here we go, confusing people again. 🙂 NO, DON"T BUY THE ATM PLUS
PACK. It doesn't have the required PostScript files. It has MicroSoft's
flavor of PostScript which isn't the same as the PC standard. Download PD
fonts off of here, off of the Soft-Logik BBS (probably over a hundred in
the fonts library there, converted and ready to use), or buy them in PC
format. Of course you can wait for our fonts, which will be out soon, or
you can buy them from Image Club, or Monotype, or Linotype, or Adobe, or…
SL Tech
Sorry to confuse anyone, but I did put the standard disclaimers in my
message – something about not being anything near a Pagestream expert (or
user), and that it would take some legwork to get all the requisite files.
When I wanted the standard 35 fonts for POST, it was the easiest way to do
it. The fontheads have spoken.
Michael, what is the number of the Soft-Logik BBS, and the parameters, and
is it located in a PC Pursuit city or do you know? How many lines do they
have, and how long can you stay on at a time? Thanks for the info in
advance.
Jim Halley
– via Whap!
Soft-Logik BBS # is 314-894-0057. It's listed in the inside front cover of
your 2.1 manual. (If you don't have the 2.1 manual you can buy it for $25 I
believe. It is really worth the money. You will find PgS has more features
than you know about. The 1.8/2.0 manual missed a lot.)
It's located in St.Louis. I don't know about PC Pursuit, I live in Canada.
It's a single line, 2400 baud non-MNP BBS. You get instant access, I'm not
sur what the normal user time limit is. And as of this week, after a
transformer blew, the phone line went down, and the hard drive controller
died (not a good week to phone the BBS 🙂 it has a much larger hard drive.
SL TEch
Oh, yeah! Hey, you're right, it is in there. No, I have 2.1 so, yes I
have the manual. Gosh, its amazing what you find in the manual if you just
take the time to look, Huh? But seriously, thanks for all the info. It
will definitely come in handy.
JH
– via Whap!
Yes, you will be able to use any downloaded PC Type 1 font with PageStream.
You can use as many as you want per document, memory being the limiting
factor. To a PS printer, printer memory is the limiting factor. 3 or 4 is
probably the limit for the average page with 2 megs of printer ram. Use
auto-unload if you need more fonts. Yes, it's not really that hard Craig.
But for gray scales, you'll want imagesetter output. Grayscales on lasers
are not all that great.
SL Tech
Since I'll only be able to use lasers and Imagesetters from afar…(via
Postscript to disk) does this auto-unload feature still work??? Does it
also work for Imagesetters? If so, that would be great! I don't mind
waiting a bit longer.
I've since downloaded the *.AFM files for the Times, Helvetica, Courier,
and Symbol fonts, that are in the PC ATM package, from the Adobe forum
library and after unpacking them (they are in Packit format) using A-Max II
and transferring them using the Postscript option to AmigaDOS, I copied
them into a directory where I already had the files from the PC ATM disk
(which I had transferred using Cross-Dos without translation options). With
all of that in the directory, I started up PgS and using the font manager
added the directory to the list and used the update command to add the
fonts. Then I went back into PgS and tried to use the fonts. They don't
show up. I've checked the *.AFM files, they are standard ASCII Postscript
files. The *.PFB files are in binary with an ASCII header containing
copyright information.
What can I be doing wrong? Although the font manager section of the
handbook is well-written for when things go right, there is nothing in
there to cover when things go wrong. (Not a major complaint, just a bit of
feedback). Also, I am a registered user with Soft-Logik in
North America, although I live in Germany. I've noticed that notification
of upgrades seems to come 6 weeks to 8 weeks behind my friends in the
computer club with APO addresses. Is there any special reason for that? I
would like to be kept up to date at the same speed as the other users. I
recall being notified of the update from 1.6 to 1.8 about 2 or 3 months
after my friend, and he had his 2.1 update at least 2months before I was
even notified that I could update. Please do somehting to rectify this.
For all the standardization that Adobe set out to establish, it is amazing
how many inconsistencies there are in the various file formats associated
with Type 1 fonts.
There are probably inconsistancies in the various entries in your .AFM
file(s) and the ASCII header(s) of the .PFB file(s). PgS supplies a utility
to correct these problems. DON'T USE IT! It wrote garbage to my hard drive.
Examine the files, using a text editor for the .AFM file and a HEX editor
(NEWZAP) for the .PFB and examine the entries for Fontname, fullname,
family name, and version number. These must correspond. Alter either file
to accomplish this and the problem should clear up.
I just checked the two files, the *.PFB and the *.AFM and the font names
are identical and also correspond to the names of the files (not including
.PFB or .AFM). Now what?
Neil,
Did Mike's suggestion about the Default option in the Manager help?
You go your way . . . I'll go Maui
Rich 😉
I tried what he said, I suppose I also should have said that I am only
trying to add Times, Helvetica, Courier, and Symbol. I discovered the
styles from Times in the CS Times section and the styles from Helvetica in
the CS Triumvirate section. How do I get them into their own sections? They
are NOT identical fonts, and I would prefer to keep them separate.
Ciao, Neil
Neil
I had some problems with installing fonts … just in case you've
overlooked something, this is whtt I do (I had a lot of problems until I
realised that I wasn't clicking on DEFAULT):
Select the manager … and select ADD … then select the directory in
which the font is located … the manager will list the contents of that
dir … then click on OK, and the fonts in that dir will be added to PgS's
internal font list … then click on DEFAULT, and the font list will be
saved.
If the font you've just added is a directory which is already being used,
just click on UPDATE and then on DEFAULT.
You should only use ADD if the directory doesn't already exist .. otherwise
you'll get in a mess … use UPDATE if the directory already exists, ADD if
not.
You probably already know all this … but just in case … :-))
Neil: it sounds like your afm files are not being recognized. Check in the
font manager. Click on the font drawer you have already added. Do the afm
files show up in the right selector? If not, they are not being recognized
and were not transferred properly. If you can't get the afm files to work,
the easiest method is really to buy the Plus Pack. It gives you dmf
outlines on screen, identical Adobe widths and kerning, and resident PS
fonts on PS printers and DMF outline fonts on non-PS printers.
If you're registered as an American user (ie: American address or APO # or
Canadian address) you will get your upgrade notice from SL itself. Fast.
Registrations for other countries are not handled by SL. I belive Germany
is handled by Upgrade Editions in Paris. Their releases are always a little
later than SL's releases. They are the company which sells PageStream in
most of Europe and they do all local product support and registration. (Of
course we will be more than happy to answer your questions here, though!)
SL Tech
It turns out the fonts are being recognized, but I can't tell what is what.
Look at my message number #31048. They are being mixed up with the CG
fonts!
RE: Upgrade Editions, I can understand that a foreign language version
might take two or three months longer to hit the market than the english
language original, but since I am receiving nothing but the English
language version, I don't understand the long delay. I've already had to
register some software packages at my father's address in Syracuse, NY just
to get support at all (Borland, Microsoft) so I suppose I shouldn't
complain, but it gets a bit tiring to constantly be treted as some sort of
weird lifeform just because I don't live in North America. I realize that
the Canadian post office has a *bad* reputation to maintain (at least
according to my Canadian girl-friend) but it isn't that big a hassle
mailing things here.
Ciao, Neil
(A resident of the World)
Neil: UE does not use Soft-Logik's documentation; they write their own
manuals. As well, the European edition may/may not come with different
drivers, different spelling/hyphenation drivers etc…
SL Tech
I just checked my manual for 2.1, and it is either a very good copy of your
manual or an original. It says, printed in USA on the back of the title
page. I realize this is probably flogging a dead horse, but if I am
prepared to pay for the upgrade and for the postage, I don't see why I
should have to wait 2 or more months longer to get service. I certainly
didn't pay any less for the product than anyone else, and as far as I can
tell from the manual, I didn't get a different version, drivers, manual
etc.
Ciao, Neil
I am interested in your comments about registration. I (or rather the
magazine I was editor of at the time) bought my PageStream from SL direct
and I was a registered user … I then recently paid for the latest
upgrade.
Are you saying that I will no longer be considered as registered user?? If
you're not saying that, how can I guarantee getting upgrade notices?
Mike (Whapping from the UK)
I'm sorry, I don't recall our conversation regarding your registration.
(Too many questions on CIS, GEnie and the SL BBS gets to me.) You
registered as a US customer originally? From whom are you getting upgrade
notices?
SL Tech
I am registered for PageStream (plus ProPage and ProDraw) … and I have
certainly had some upgrade notices about PageStream .. but only after I
rattled a cage or two.
My PageStream registration was sent off a long time ago (when I was editor
Transactor magazine) and, when I heard of the upgrade, I wrote with
evidence of my original disk/manual as I didn't have my registration
number.
I received a couple of flyers following that, and paid for (and received)
the latest upgrade. I would certainly assume and expect that I remained
registered with S-L in the US rather than have to deal with someone over
here.
Mike (Whapping from the UK)
I suppose I also should have said that I am only trying to add Times,
Helvetica, Courier, and Symbol. I discovered the styles from Times in the
CS Times section and the styles from Helvetica in the CS Triumvirate
section. How do I get them into their own sections? They are NOT identical
fonts, and I would prefer to keep them separate.
Ciao, Neil
Well, the fontequiv file is what makes Helv, Helvetica and Triumvirate
equal. If you are doing PostScript work, don't change things, you'll only
mess it up. This is because Helvetica and CS Triumvirate are identical for
all intents and purposes. Now if you have Helvetica Black, you may not want
it to show up in the Triumvirate family, but you can't change it, because
its base font is Helvetica and that is equivalent to Triumvirate. If you
don't use the CG fonts, delete them, and edit them out of fontequiv.v2 with
a tex editor.
SL TEch
SL:
I hate to butt in here, but (?) I've run into this "Helvetica is the same
as Triumvirate" fiasco before and I thought I'd pass on a word of caution
here. Adobe's Helvetica (licensed from ITC) and CS Triumvirate are similar
in appearance but ARE NOT THE SAME FONT! Type the same line of copy in each
and compare them. Triumvrate is much heavier than Helvetica and thus has a
higher characters-per-pica ratio than Helv. The reason I mention all this
is that, while there's no problem in using Triumvirate as a Helvtica
substitute, there is a problem with equating them as the same font in
quivilency tables (as both GD and SL are doing). Alot of people are
creating their docs with Triumvirate and saving out PS files with the name
Helvetica in them. If these PS files were to print on a PostScript printer
containing the Helvetica font (which all do), the spacing and kerning
information used to create the doc would be meaningless since the output
font (Helv) would not contain the same characteristics as Triumvirate and
it's likely you'd find your carefully kerned type dribbling off into places
you didn't want it to. I think a tremendous disservice is being done to DTP
users when they are told that this font is "essentially" the same as that
font (or rather, not told, since the equivilency files are fairly hidden to
the end user). It's the sort of thing that breeds ignorance and causes
unnecessary problems. And I suspect that telling people to "not change
things, you'll only mess it up" is a poor excuse for perpetuating what
amounts to a shoddy attempt at patching CG fonts into Adobe's domain. If
Triumvirate is similar to Helvetica, say that. Don't tell people they're
the same font unless they are. Adobe and Cassady & Green both sell a Bodoni
font, whose letterforms are very similar. But Cassady & Green's Bodoni is
much lighter and takes up almost HALF the space the same line Adobe's
Bodoni does. Would you tell your users that they are same font?
Can you tell that I've been to Hell and back over this with Gold Disk? 🙂
[ MORE ]
[ continuation ]
Gary
– Mirror Image Prod. (416) 495-7469, via WHAP!
Success! Now that I have commented out all of the equivalents in the
fontequivv2 file that was in the PSFONTS directory, all of my fonts show
up. By the way, there was a noticeable difference between the Helvetica and
the CS Triumvirate. I had known this before. I have a Deskjet 500 and the
Windows 3.0 driver includes Intellifont and CS Triumvirate. It doesn't
replace Helvetica however and after printing a line in both the difference
was obvious. That's why I wanted the Helvetica available to me on the Amiga
using Pagestream.
By the way, I think that with a little work on the user interface and such
that Pagestream would certainly make Pagemaker uses fall dead in their
tracks. I've liked it from the start and even in its first incarnation it
could do things that Pagemaker still can't do in version 4.0. I have to
admit though that Pagemaker's user interface seems to be more intuitive and
easier to use.
By the way, there are still bugs in the Window handling. When I click on an
arrow to scroll just a bit instead of dragging a scroll bar the screen gets
redrawn, but nothing moves. Same thing if I click on either side of the
scroll bar.
I am using an Amiga 2000, with a GVP 68030/882 board at 36MHz with 9 MB
RAM, the Fat Agnus (ECS), the Commodore Flicker Fixer, WB and Kickstart 2.0
Kickstart v37.175 and WB v37.33. Also the GVP Series II SCSI controller.
Ciao, Neil
"it describes every pixel that makes one [bit-image] up"
When you say "describe", PostScript doesn't describe each pixel as it does
each letter/word in text. Instead, it takes the bitmap in binary form (just
as it might be in IFF or internally represented) and converts each byte to
hex … it just doubles the number of bytes used. Describing text, one
character at a time, can sometimes mean as many as 40 times the number of
characters.
Mike (Whapping from the UK)
I was just trying to explain why bitmaps are so huge in Postscript, but
I guess your explanation is more exacting.
Craig:
PostScript is not necessarily inefficent, you just get big code with it.
Since everything in PostScript is ASCII, you can only describe bitmap
pictures in ASCII which will blow it out from it's "1 bit/1pixel" format to
at least "1 byte/1pixel". This will naturally make your files bigger.
However, if you print a PostScript file directly to your PS printer, it
isn't necessarily slowed down by the ASCII format. It's just transporting
it across modems and putting it on floppies that gets to be a pain. And
ASCII compresses really well (most of the time) so even that's not really
too much of a problem. The fact that PostScript is in human-readble ASCII
format is what's made it such a world standard. You can write and debug a
PostScript program with a word processor. It makes it universally
accessible (and trust me, debugging PostScript is bad enough already…:)
Gary
– Mirror Image Prod. (416) 495-7469, via WHAP!
Gary … that's not quite true!!
PostScript does not need to do 1 byte/pixel (except if you want grey scale,
when you'd need more anyway). PostScript can handle 1, 2, 4 or 8 _bits_ per
pixel and that is inherent in the image operator which takes bits/sample as
a parameter.
Therefore, as I've said before, PostScript is not inefficient at images ..
in fact, it is much more efficient at bit-images than with text. Of course,
if the program generating the image chooses to use 8 bits/sample, then
that's not PostScript's fault 🙂
". . . and trust me debugging PostScript is bad enough already . . ."
True not if backwards think you! <g>
Rich;
That looks like Forth! Are Forth and PostScript related? <grin>
An Amiga message processed by Whap!,
bill
Yup. Forth and PostScript are very similar. Both are stack-oriented,
reverse-Polish notation languages. A little strange at first, but once you
get into the mind-set, very logical (what else?).
You might try print a few pages at a time to a file. Some PS printers will
choke on huge files. At Transactor we rarely made any files larger than 5
pages. Having small files also makes it easy to transfer them to IBM disks
and misses out the step of compressing/decompressing.
All I'm going to be using it for is flyers and simple 1 page (two-sided)
newsletters. Graphics will be minimal (1/3 page MAX–Black and whit or
color grey scales…). I'm aware of PostScript printers reqiring huge
amounts of memory to eat graphics at 300 dpi and so forth. I was worried
most about transfering it to IBM or MAC format disks and just printing out
the file. Given the replies I've gotten it seems I shouldn't have to much
of a problem. I really have an interest in DTP, It's going to be
interesting to see how things turn out. I like what I've seen of
Pagestream so far. I still haven't gotten through the manual yet, but I'm
getting there. I do wish I had a faster Amiga (using a A500 w/3 MEGS ram,
fatter agnus and 105M hard drive), maybe in the future I'll get a 3000
<Dreaming>. Thanks for all the help… I'm sure I'll be back before to
long with a list of questions <G>
Craig:
You will find that even an HP compatible printer will require 3 megs of ram
to print out a full page of graphics. My laser has only 512K which is
enough to do only 1/5 of a page of graphics, although it has no problem
printing a full page of text from PageStream. Graphics are what eats up
memory… even simple graphics like hairlines and boxes. Why not convince
your store amnager or district manager to get the store a TI Microlaser PS
and allow you to take in small printing jobs!<g>.
– Whapping from the North Coast Michael
If I was using this for the store I suppose I'd have a chance, But this is
for my use. I've thought about getting a laser printer, but the
resoulution isn't that good (relative to a few years ago). I'm not making
a career out of this (yet) just kind of a hobby right now. If laser
printers offering upwards of 1000 dpi became available CHEAPLY, then I'd
get one. But thats a long way off I imagine.
Craig Glaser (Software Etc Milwaukee) – via Whap!
Craig:
Don't be misled by resolution figures alone. Go to a Computerland (or
wherever) and look at the difference between a 360 X 360 DPI bubble jet
output page and a 300 X 300 DPI laser output page. You'll be surprised to
find that the laser page is far superior.
– Whapping from the North Coast Michael
There are evident differences between different types of 300dpi lasers too!
Some look better than others. No kidding. Check it out.
You're right. There are differences between 300 dpi lasers. Different
engines print differently, and there are several types of print enhancement
technologies that are incorporeated in to a few, like HP's Resolution
Enhancement Technology that actually varies the size of the dot printed to
give sharper curves.
I wasn't even thinking about Res Enhance Tech! Compare the Apple
LaserWriter and a NEC LC-890. Print some italics. There's no comparison!
The Apple italics look much more stair-stepped. Compare an OLD HP against
some of the HP-compatibles. The latter look smeared in comparison.
Craig, I am using PgS and outputting to an HP LaserJet III (no postcript).
I truly think that if you saw the output you would be impressed. You can
get these printers for around $1600 now and an additional 2 meg board
(don't buy the HP board, its a rip) will cost around $250. I'll tell you.
It's not quite as good as a linotronic, but if you're using structured
clip-art and the fonts that come with the program, the output is excellent.
It is at least good enough to do a hobby newsletter, which is what I use it
for.
Jim Halley
– via Whap!
The reason I said Lasers don't look all that good to me as far as
resolutions go is not based on their text output which DOES look quite
good, but rather the very poor (in my opinion) screens. I don't plan on
doing JUST black and whites. I plan on using a lot of greys. A lino is
about the lowest I've seen that does it to my satisfaction. The other
reason a laser doesn't look very good to me right now is cost. I'm only
doing this as a hobby right now. I'm not paying $1600 for a hobby. If I
seem to be any good at this, or really like it and the possibilities arise
that I can make some money off of this then a laser would start to look
good. As of right now I'm only doing 2 or 3 pages a month. Very little.
I'm not to the point where I'd need a laser to proof things such as kerning
and so forth… I'm still a layman by a long shot. Of course none of
these should be taken as I don't WANT a laser. Hell, if someone said, "Hey
kid, you want this laser printer–go ahead it's yours" I'd be quite happy
and probably start going to church more often. <SIGN> I guess for now I
have to be happy with a 24 pin–which does do a respectable job.
Craig Glaser (Software Etc Milwaukee) – via Whap!
Craig:
If your output is that low, then you're right. But don't deny yourself the
best possible outout on the stuff you do. Craete a PgS test file. When
you're happy with your proofs, print your PgS file to disk, TWICE. First
using the postscript driver, then using the lino driver. Use CrossDos or
Dos2Dos to put the files on an MSDOS formatted disk (or convince your
service bureau to get an Amiga…or send your Amiga disks to Chris Tolmie),
and then drop them off at a local service bureau that has postscript and
lino capabilities. The Laser outout should only cost around $3.00, the lino
at 1200 DPI should run about $12… and if your files have some serious
greyscales in it, have them outout it at 2400 DPI also (around $20). Then
you'll have a good way to judge what you can accomplish in B & W… The
do something in color!
– Whapping from the North Coast Michael
Michael:
Just thought I'd jump in here for a second and ask that all important
question: doesn't anybody send PS files to their output bureau by modem?
This is really odd. Most Mac users don't up here, either. Very strange. I
can't understand why anyone would want to transfer their files to an IBM
disk and then spend the time (and money for couriers, in many cases) to get
something to their output bureau when they can just zip that sucker up
(getting 60-70% compression on most PS stuff) and BOOM!, done. Maybe it's
just easier with my output bureau, I don't know.
Gary
– Mirror Image Prod. (416) 495-7469, via WHAP!
Michael, Our 1200dpi output for a letter page is $8 when you modem it to
us. And 2400dpi is $12 modem. You can send the disk too, and get the same
price. Our courier pick up rate is a $2 more a page. 'Course your outside
of our pick up area! B^)
We do negatives, and separations too, more $$ cost for film.
Chris
ACCU-TYPE & GRAPHICS
(a service bureau in Delaware)
Craig, You can modem your PgStr files to me in an LHARC file, we charge
$8.00 for 1200dpi letter and $12 for 2400 dpi letter-size, RC paper output.
Give a call at 302-366-7581 for info on the transfer. Our BBS isn't 24hrs.
But it could be if more people would want to call it. Right now we handle
modem transfers as they're needed.
Chris
ACCU-TYPE & GRAPHICS
(a service bureau in Delaware)
Hey, if someone offers you one, ask them if they have a spare. The one I'm
using now is at the office. I certainly could use one at home. I think if
that happened, I'd probably start going to church more often too. :^)
Jim H.
– via Whap!
Sure thing. This reminds me of something that happened by a PC store
nearby our store. Seems someone broke in to there store one night and took
a whole lot of stuff. They musta taken a bit more than they could carry
because the next day the staff found one of there HPIII's laying in a
stairwell in the parking garage. <SIGH> The very stairwell I would have
used had I worked that day…Now I'm an honest person but finding a brand
new HPIII just laying on deserted stairwell would have been an interesting
situation indeed <EG>
Craig Glaser (Software Etc Milwaukee) – via Whap!
Craig
PostScript is _not_ inefficient for what it is doing … because it is a
programming language … but for outputting text, it can appear very
inefficient. Depending on the complexity of the docuemnt, especially how
much the tracking, kerning or whatever is altered as you may find that
every single character will consist of something like:
144.3548 3324.4435 moveto (a) show
At least most PostScript output knowck some of this on the head by creating
a special routine to simplify the above … which might run something like:
3324.4435 (a) ms
Even so, each single character (or word, or section of text), gets expanded
… and there's a lot of additional stuff too … hence, PostScript looks
inefficient varying from about 40:1 to 4:1.
Bit-images can also appear quite inefficient … although they're much more
efficient (in percentage overhead) than text. A simple "one-plane" bit
image may be broken into 8-pixel bytes … and these are sent as hex
characters, therefore doubling the character count (2:1) … gray scale
images are much the same, each pixel may be represented by a single byte
(again, as hex) and so it still remains at 2:1
Mike (Whapping from the UK)
Mike:
One of the things we're missing in this thread about the ineffieciency of
PostScript is how it's written. A PostScript generating program (aka.
page-creation programs like PPage and PageStream) are ultimately
responsible for how big a PS file gets and how fast it prints. Our new
program creates PostScript files (type catalogs) and we found that making
the smallest of changes in the output code would result in a speed increase
of nearly 10 times! I'll say one thing: PPage PS code is a little bulky,
but it whips like crazy. Mac users at our output bureau go nuts when they
see our files pop out in less than a minute. Of course, they go straight
from their applications to the lino (and through AppleTalk no less! Yeesh!)
and have all sorts of font ID conflicts which we never have… poor Mac
users! 🙂
Gary
– Mirror Image Prod. (416) 495-7469, via WHAP!
I would certainly agree with that .. and I kinda tried to imply that in one
of those earlier replies.
I've done a lot of work in ProPage which has gone to a bureau. Originally,
I took the PS code on MS-DOS disks and they did, as you said, fairly whip
through the RIP. In fact, on my first visit, the operator ran a simple
document through and the Lino started to feed out the bromide into the
carrier. He saw the laser-proof and said that there was obviously something
wrong, since it must have produced a blank page, so he ran it through
again. It did the same … so he then said he ought to import it into a Mac
and try again (fortunately, he had warned me to bring EPS versions just in
case)
This was imported into the Mac and then printed … this time it took much
longer (presumably because of the Mac prologue) and he was happy.
When he then processed the bromides, he got the shock of his life!! The
bureau now owns an Amiga, but sadly doesn't use it very often.
Mike (Whapping from the UK)
Oh boy, I wasn't serious when I said inefficent, or at least I worded it
wrong. I was more or less making a joke at the 96% compression
rate–15MEGS –> 650K. I accedently had my Pagestream printer config set
to postscript and tried printing to a Dot-matrix, I got a first hand look
at postscript language (about 10 pages before I finally reset the Damn
thing) <G>
Craig Glaser (Software Etc Milwaukee) – via Whap!
Sorry, Craig … didn't mean to imply anything 🙂
Certainly, unlike a straight "text" printer, the number of characters that
pour out of a PostSCript driver is substantial …. but then, as I said, it
is a computer program and not just some odd control characters followed by
text.
Personally, I like PostScript a lot … althoguh it can be a bit convoluted
at times.
Mike (Whapping from the UK)