CompuServe Thread

#Motion Capture For 3DS

49 messages in this thread
#112297From: Paul LindJul 11, 1994 11:32 PM
Well Martin, in case you don't already know about this….. here it is straight off the NET. Ascension's Flock of Birds 6D Tracking system PRESS RELEASE – FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE TITLE: ASCENSION'S FLOCK OF BIRDS CHOSEN FOR MOTION CAPTURE IN MAJOR EXHIBITS AT SIGGRAPH '94 SUBTITLE: ALIAS, WAVEFRONT, AND AUTODESK TO HIGHLIGHT PERFORMANCE ANIMATION WITH FLOCK MOTION CAPTURE Motion-capture for performance/animation will be prominently exhibited at this year's annual SIGGRAPH Exposition in Orlando, starting on July 26, 1994. The exposition runs through July 28th at the Orange County Convention Center. Animation software leaders Alias, Autodesk, and WAVEFRONT will each feature Ascension's Flock of BirdsTM motion-capture equipment in their booths. Autodesk's latest 3D Studio release brings motion-capture down to the PC platform. After evaluating alternative techniques for tracking motions, all three — as well as Softimage — recommend the Flock as the preferred method of capturing the motions of live actors in creating computer animations. Performance animation integrates computer-generated characters with realistic, fluid human motions. The process starts when an actor is typically hooked up with 10-15 Flock receivers (sensors) to accurately record his movements in real time. This information is then used to control a computer-generated character. The resulting computer characters display natural, accurate movements that are difficult and costly to produce with traditional keyframe techniques. The process allows production companies to quickly produce large amounts of 3D animations. Some recent prominent examples of animations created with the Flock include: R/Greenberg's Shell Oil ad campaign, Lamb and Company's Donnie Domino ads, Windlight's Weldon Pond pilot for CBS television, Mr. Film's Fantastic Four feature film based on Marvel comics, and Universal Studio's Jurassic Park tour. "Motion [>> Continued in next msg]
#112298From: Paul LindJul 11, 1994 11:32 PM
[>> Continued from previous msg] capture is the future," says Alias's product manager for entertainment, Gary Mundell. Last year, Softimage and Alias led the pack in developing Flock drivers for motion-capture equipment. This year at SIGGRAPH, they will be joined by Wavefront and Autodesk. Wavefront's Kinemation and Autodesk's 3D Studio software packages will be seen for the first time operating with the Flock. An eleven-receiver Flock will also be exhibited in Ascension's booth (# 1552). Here a mime will be used to interact with visitors while demonstrating the capability of the Flock to quickly capture full body motions. A wireframe image of the mime's likeness will follow his motions in real time. "At the Ascension booth, we will concentrate on helping people understand the hardware requirements for motion capture, "said Ascension vice president, Jack Scully. "Alias, Wavefront and Autodesk will emphasize the benefits of using their animation software packages with the Flock," he continued. The Flock itself is an easy-to-use motion-capture product, enabling a user to simultaneously track up to 29 receivers (sensors) referenced to a transmitter emitting pulsed DC magnetic fields. Magnetic fields are used because they overcome some of the vexing problems of earlier optical and vide-based trackers — non-real time tracking, blocking/occlusion and extremely high cost. The Flock transmitter provides ample coverage for a person to move about a 16-foot diameter. Receivers send their sensed signals back to a central bank of electronics for processing and output to a host computer. For ease of movement, receiver cables are often bundled and suspended via a bungee-type cord from an overhang on the work stage. Ascension, based in South Burlington, VT, has extensive experience in developing, manufacturing and marketing multi degrees-of-freedom tracking devices for various markets. Give us a call, or email for more information. Or come and see us at [>> Continued in next msg]
#112299From: Paul LindJul 11, 1994 11:32 PM
[>> Continued from previous msg] SIGGAPH.
#112303From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Jul 11, 1994 11:47 PM
🙂
#112305From: Paul LindJul 11, 1994 11:53 PM
It should prove interesting. It seems like a phenomenal amount of info to put into 3DS but I just happen to have a heck of alot of motion capture data from the Flock. Hopefully come August 1, I can simply click on a few buttons and watch my models move. 🙂 Paul
#112307From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Jul 11, 1994 11:56 PM
Paul, << click on a few buttons and watch my models move. 🙂 >> It's starting to sound, "oh.. so easy" :-)..
#112313From: Paul LindJul 12, 1994 12:10 AM
Jonas, It sure is, hmmmmmmmm now I have to figure out how to get that Flock in house. 🙂 Paul
#112393From: ALAN IGLESIASJul 12, 1994 10:29 AM
Something tells me you'll find a way, Paul. Hey, you could be one of the first desktop-based motion-capture service bureaus in the US! Folks could fly in, jump around in the flock, and leave with their motion data in-hand! I *really* think you should move your operation to SoCal, Paul<g>.
#112464From: Paul LindJul 12, 1994 4:02 PM
We are in the process of moving, but the only LA I'd move to is a state. 🙂 I enjoy swamps, cajun food, and parties.
#112469From: ALAN IGLESIASJul 12, 1994 4:19 PM
Plenty of Cajun food, swamps (During the wet season. Some folks call 'em floods<g>), and TONS of parties right here in good 'ole North San Diego County. All the good parts of living in SoCal, with very little of the LA-ness!
#112472From: Paul LindJul 12, 1994 4:35 PM
You know ….. I've never been to San Diego. But I think I'd miss the hurricanes. 🙂
#112887From: Tyler ColwellJul 14, 1994 11:39 AM
<< hmmmmmmmm now I have to figure out how to get that Flock in house. :-)>> Yes! Get the flock in here! 🙂
#112324From: David StinnettJul 12, 1994 1:02 AM
Ok, I have to ask. What is the ":-)" that you guys keep putting in your messages. I'm assuming it's supposed to be a little smiley face and has the same meaning as "<g>". That it? David
#112345From: Accu-WeatherJul 12, 1994 7:52 AM
Bingo 8-} (I wear glasses)
#112580From: David StinnettJul 13, 1994 2:13 AM
>>glasses…. <g> (or :-), take your pick) David
#112366From: David J. MarksJul 12, 1994 8:38 AM
>> smiley face Yup! I've seen text files with hundreds of variants, too! !:-} – Dave
#112378From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Jul 12, 1994 9:35 AM
<< Yup! I've seen text files with hundreds of variants, too! !:-}>> If you(anyone) has one handy, I'd like it uploaded into the Index and Info section for the forum neophytes, please.
#112379From: David J. MarksJul 12, 1994 9:51 AM
<< Smiley.txt>> I'll dig around at home tonight. It goes WAY back to when I used to run a BBS. – Dave
#112382From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Jul 12, 1994 9:58 AM
Thanks…
#112330From: MARTIN G FOSTERJul 12, 1994 1:41 AM
Paul, that's FLOCKING brilliant! <G>. That's probably what the big flap is about. Or at least one of the flaps surrounding Adesk and Siggraph. I'd guess that a "Flock of Birds" or even a pair of birds is probably out of reach of the average 3ds animator working out of his garden shed, though. Probably more in the budget of the Pyros', Lind's, and Jamie Clay's of this world, I'd guess 🙁 Actually, I'm looking at working for one of the big name game publishers on a fighting game and the flock would kick for that one <g>.
#112332From: Paul LindJul 12, 1994 2:03 AM
Martin, You know that if it works well, people will be aquiring them, and the next thing you know, it's an asoft party with people standing in line to suit up and dance around with sensors on. I can't wait! 🙂 Paul
#112419From: MARTIN G FOSTERJul 12, 1994 12:08 PM
I heard a magnetic system (like the "Flock of Ravens") was $10k to $25k, and an optical system closer to $100k. Does that sound about right?
#112465From: Paul LindJul 12, 1994 4:02 PM
Acutally the system is really competively priced. A 10 sensor unit is ~25K and a 12 sensor unit is ~28K. Extremely competively priced. 🙂 I just got off the phone with Jack Scully, he's the VP up there, and they're going to put a quote together for us. <BG>
#112676From: MARTIN G FOSTERJul 13, 1994 11:43 AM
>> Acutally the system is really competively priced. A 10 sensor unit is ~25K and a 12 sensor unit is ~28K. Extremely competively priced. 🙂 << Wow, is that ALL! I'll take a flocking dozen <G>. Actually, we'll need DPS to get in on this and break the price/performance barrier before I can get my own. More likely, I'll get to work for a company that buys one.
#112737From: Paul LindJul 13, 1994 3:53 PM
Sorry about the misinterpretation. What I meant was that considering an Extreme is 40K, a Beta deck 35K, a copy of Alias 45K, etc, etc, etc, ….. 25K did not seem bad at all for the flock. I was also comparing it to the optical sets which are generally 100K. So rephrased….. Considering the high cost of equipment and the cost of the average piece of equipment, or the average budget for projects involving character animation, 25K seems pretty cheap.
#112760From: David J. MarksJul 13, 1994 5:05 PM
>> they're going to put a quote together for us. <BG> Can I come play at your house?!? – Dave
#112765From: Paul LindJul 13, 1994 5:17 PM
,:-) If I survive the next couple of months, maybe we'll have an open house where everyone can come and play…..
#112392From: ALAN IGLESIASJul 12, 1994 10:29 AM
Paul "Scoop" Lind, ace reporter!<g> -Alan
#112466From: Paul LindJul 12, 1994 4:02 PM
Always glad to be of assistance. 🙂
#112505From: John TissavaryJul 12, 1994 6:42 PM
Yep. Yep. Yep, yep, yep. <g>
#112506From: Paul LindJul 12, 1994 6:49 PM
You have to quote more. <G> I don't know what you were agreeing with. <BG>
#112560From: John TissavaryJul 12, 1994 11:49 PM
I was babbling incredulously at the Flock of Birds news you quoted from Internet.
#112563From: Paul LindJul 13, 1994 12:01 AM
Now it makes sense……. <BG> I had a long conversation with them today. I think that I had mentioned to you a couple of weeks ago that we were looking at motion capture. It'll be interesting to see what Adesk has going on at Siggraph. Unfortunately, I don't know if I'm going to make it down there. I'm going to try hard to fly in for a day, but it may be difficult with our deadlines.
#112592From: John TissavaryJul 13, 1994 3:46 AM
Paul, quit occillating… you KNOW you're gonna be there! <bg>. I can sympathize with deadlines, though – I almost had to back out, but I've found someone to lend me a color laptop so I can get a _little_ work done while I'm traveling.
#112594From: Paul LindJul 13, 1994 3:50 AM
If you've noticed my messgaes this week you can see that they're posted virtually 24 hours a day. I'm averaging around 3 hours of sleep a night. 🙁 It's now 10 til 5, I woke up at 9 a.m. yesterday……. Soooooo…. I really may not make it. Although I'll try hard.
#112597From: John TissavaryJul 13, 1994 4:01 AM
Yuk! I certainly can sympathize, though I'm not in quite that bad shape (today <g>).
#112762From: David J. MarksJul 13, 1994 5:05 PM
>> I've found someone to lend me a color laptop AHA!!!! So YOU are the one who will help relay Siggraph info to the Asofters and ASOFT info to the attendees! <wishful thinking>
#112487From: Arturo SinclairJul 12, 1994 5:53 PM
HI, is the 3DS release mentioned out yet? I am using R3 and I have not seen any way to input motion-files. We are doing that in Wavefront on our SGI but it would be great if we could use it in our 3D stations. Thanks, Arturo
#112491From: Paul LindJul 12, 1994 6:14 PM
Although I can't speak from a position of authority on this……… my guess would be that someone has written a data translator that allows motion capture files to be imported into 3DS as motion curves. No-one will know until Siggraph…. but I'd say that more than likely the solution consists of a data translator rather than a robust interface to sample data and view it in real time. The major thing that should be of interest is the solution for assigning the data to objects in 3DS. In order for it to be effective it should be assigned to some type of skeletal structure with specific joints. Which means ……. that if one is going to utilize the flock, then one has to be able to assign the data from those 12 sensors to 12 specific points on a model inside 3DS. Now I don't know who is working on IK for 3DS but it will have to constitute an intense program unto itself if it's not built into 3DS directly. We'll see. P.S. – On the other hand I know of two different groups who have written motion capture translator files for 3DS, so the Siggraph showing may be highlighting one of those.
#112566From: Yost GroupJul 13, 1994 12:34 AM
>>We'll see. Only if you come to Siggraph!
#112568From: Paul LindJul 13, 1994 12:42 AM
WHy can't I see after Siggraph? I pay my ACM and IEEE dues every year, don't torture me if I can't make it to the show. 🙂 I'm going to try hard to make it down. I have a full conference registration with papers/panels/etc, but I've already told them to ship it all here. If I'm really lucky, I'll fly in Tuesday night, spend Wednesday there and fly out late Wednesday night or first thing Thursday morning.
#112653From: Yost GroupJul 13, 1994 10:24 AM
Whatever!
#112583From: John EllisJul 13, 1994 2:26 AM
>> I'd say that more than likely the solution consists of a data translator rather than a robust interface to sample data and view it in real time. << For what its worth it will read raw data and capture in real-time off a serial device. "Flock of Birds" sound familiar? <g> Wavefront motion data files are supported as well. The skeletal structure is supported by nodes, links and joints with constraints but the primary emphasis at this point is going to be motion capture and editing. The software is evolving very rapidly and addresses all the issues you've raised. The first generation will give you motion capture and the ability to import and export motion files as well as edit them, at least. You are able to play back the motion just as in the Keyframer. Its going to be robust in the sense that its utilizes its own module like other IPAS 3 modules. As far as I know there is no translator as it reads the file structure of the motion data files directly. I'm only sorry I won't be at Siggraph to show it to you in person. <g>
#112588From: Paul LindJul 13, 1994 2:47 AM
Wow, that's alot of info. I found out who's producing the software but I didn't know anywhere near that amount about it. I take it they have a 12 sensor Flock in-house. Are they going to establish an in-house service to offer 3DS based companies the ability to use motion capture at their facilities? I was "REALLY" surprised when I heard about it. No-one has tried it before because of the unbelievably intense amount of data delivered by a device like the Flock. About a year ago when we talked to them about the possibility of using the unit with a PC, they laughed and said we would do better to stick with the workstations. We've played with the hardware before and have a number of motion files here, (Running/Walking/Karate/etc.) but I can't wait to see the software. I'm extremely interested in how one can deform and control meshes in 3DS through IPAS. IK is intense. IS it ready to be released? Paul P.S. – Why aren't you going to Siggraph?
#112646From: John EllisJul 13, 1994 9:37 AM
>> I was "REALLY" surprised when I heard about it. No-one has tried it before because of the unbelievably intense amount of data delivered by a device like the Flock. << Amen. To me it is an intense hurculean effort especially after watching the approach taken with and the development of Kinemation. Its is also apparent that like Kinemation there will be several future iterations of the software, but as I said motion capture is the primary focus with editing and linking functionality. >> I'm extremely interested in how one can deform and control meshes in 3DS through IPAS. << Well as I said, its a self contained module which will allow you to do this, then once done the data can be translated into the keyframer much as you would add any mesh with keyframe data. And it works much the way that you have similar functions in 3D build and the Keyframer, you'll have more explicit controls for controlling the keyframing of motion data. >> IS it ready to be released? << Its debut will be Siggraph, but then you knew that. <g> >> Are they going to establish an in-house service to offer 3DS based companies the ability to use motion capture at their facilities. << There are two groups that are closely cooperating in the development. Of the two, one will provide this service. But the real beauty of this approach is that it will accept the raw data from FOB as well as the Wavefront Data files, so independents will not be constrained by a single source. I imagine that with your intense interest you will be inclined to have your own in-house. And it will be far more cost effective IMO for you to do so. The software is being priced at a level to allow access to virtually anyone with a serious interest in IK, less than say Adobe Photoshop. >> Why aren't you going to Siggraph. << Because for some reason there is a convegence of production and everyone has decided this is the time to do it; unlike last year. I may get a break in September but I doubt it. And I'm like a camel, I never turn down an opportunity to indulge at an oasis. 🙂
#112738From: Paul LindJul 13, 1994 3:53 PM
Thanks for the info…. sounds like it's definately worth investigating. I'm still trying to make it down to Siggraph so maybe I'll see it running. All I'm really interested in is the software and how it puts the data into 3DS.
#112763From: John EllisJul 13, 1994 5:12 PM
>> I'm interested in how software puts the data into 3DS. << For capture you have two choices. Flock of Birds or Motion Analysis. To apply the motion data you create a skeletal "puppet" which you can then attach the motion data to. This will allow you to apply say human motion to a dinosaur, or a leopard's motion data to a human. A 9600 baud rate gives you a frame capture rate of 10-12 fps. 30 fps is easily obtainable. Baud rates at 115k overload the PC hardware buffer and a patch is being created to use two serial ports to overcome this limitation. Now with a couple of small reflectors attached to a dragonfly… well you get the idea… <g>
#112766From: Paul LindJul 13, 1994 5:20 PM
Sounds great….. I was wondering how they were going to get a PC to capture data as fast as a workstation. Multiple serial ports would probably work. I'm really excited about seeing the software. Should be enlightening. Sorry you can't make it to Siggraph.
#112781From: John EllisJul 13, 1994 7:32 PM
Thanks, me too. -JE