#DirectoryOpus Suggestion
27 messages in this thread
I have a suggestion for the next revision of Directory Opus.
PLEASE give us the option to have numbers displayed with COMMAS in them
every three digits!
This makes it MUCH easier to tell at a glance the magnitude of a number
with out having to study it.
Thanks,
-J
Jay,
> PLEASE give us the option to have numbers displayed with COMMAS in
them every three digits!
I couldn't agree with you more! I have constantly mentioned that to
software developers and to the computer magazines. The computer doesn't
use commas, but the programmer can write code to display the numbers with
commas. Unfortunately, most don't do it. I find it very tedious to read
large numbers without commas.
I don't understand why some computer magazines have also stopped using
commas with numbers. Another problem in the computer industry is the date
format, but fortunately DirOpus allows you to display dates with the
American format of Month Day, Year. I still don't understand why some
American software and even American-based Compuserve insists on using the
day-month-year format. I know the different date formats are confusing,
but if only one can be used, then use the date format for the country in
which the product is primarily used. Why do these people insist on
burdening us with the date format of foreign countries? You don't see
foreigners adopting the American date format, so why should we adopt
theirs? In America, the date format is Month Day, Year. Anything else is
technically incorrect for American use. It's really unnerving when only
numbers are used, such as in 6/8/93. To Americans, that's read as June 8,
1993 and not as August 6, 1993. It's not that one format is inherently any
better than another format. It's just a matter of your particular
country's convention and what you're used to. I even sent Feedback to CIS
and asked them why they insist on using the foreign date format and I
didn't even receive the courtesy of a reply.
Well, as you stated, I also vote for the use of commas with numbers in
the next DirOpus update.
Dom Fontana
–> Sent from NY via AP <–
Dom,
I know how you feel. American dates drive me mad as well :-^
Compuserve may be American-based, but it has very wisely expanded to
become a world-wide service. At the global level, I suspect that the
American date format may be the odd one out. A compromise would be to
harmonise with YYMMDD without separators e.g. 930808, which at the same
time would avoid the confusion and simplify sorting by date.
As to commas, being English, I side with the Americans. However, here in
mainland Europe, it's the decimal comma, with the period being used as the
thousands separator. One solution would be to omit both periods and commas
as thousand separators which, as you say, some magazines have done. Here,
I agree with you, it makes large numbers harder to read. This still leave
the decimal problem, however.
Then there is American and English spelling ………… 🙂
Pete Jones, flying on AutoPilot from Brussels, Belgium
Hi, Peter.
> Then there is American and English spelling ………… 🙂
Ah, and therein lies the rub! As I said, one date format is not
preferable to another; it's simply a matter of what you're used to. Also,
as you said, the American date format probably is the odd one out. And I
do realize that CIS is an international service, but it has many more
American subscribers. I just feel that since someone has to be
inconvenienced by the date format, it may as well be the non-Americans.
😎 I just can't see any other country adopting the American date format
for our convenience.
America is also the odd one out concerning the metric system and there
have been attempts to introduce it here. Yet, like it or not, America has
not embraced or really adopted the metric system. The same is true with
the American and English spelling that you mentioned. I feel the same way
about the dates. To use a non-standard American date format, to me, is the
same as using the metric system or English spelling (colour, etc.) here on
CIS. The same reasoning for using the international date format could be
applied to using the metric system, yet CIS doesn't do that.
I just feel that the same way that CIS does not use the metric system
or English spelling, despite its international members, it also should not
use the non-American date format.
Dom Fontana
–> Sent from NY via AP <–
Dom,
If Clinton were to push thru legislation to change America to the metric
system, I'm fairly sure Joe Public would hate it. On the other hand, Big
Business might get very enthusiastic when it saw the bucks to be made
changing over, just think of the cost of road signs alone!
I guess it will take several generations yet (if ever) before the world
sees any real harmonisation, although the fact that I can chat casually
with you and others here on CompuServe across a few thousand miles (and
even more kilometres/kilometers 🙂 )may speed things up some.
Pete Jones, flying on AutoPilot from Brussels, Belgium
Actually, Peter, the only system of measurement that has ever been
approved by Congress IS the metric system. That standard is spelled
out in law, and all the others are just tradition. It's just that
people have chosen to ignore the metric system, for the most part.
Parts of the metric system are excellent, and parts are not so good.
For example: metric measurements of temperature are not nearly so
precise as are Fahrenheit. I do hope we NEVER go metric with
temperatures. Most others, however, are far more precise and the
powers of ten are mighty easy for computation.
and there are those of us that are comfortable in both systems. The
Navy didn't give me much choice in the matter <grin>.
I'm comfortable in both, too, Brian – but I just don't LIKE the
metric system for temperatures.
Now, that is interesting. Is that a recent act or was it a couple of
hundred years ago as a post-revolution reaction?
Why do you consider Celsius to be less precise than Fahrenheit? I
agree that the units are larger, but the decimal point is there for
greater accuracy. It took me a long while to convert from Fahrenheit
to Celsius, but the one thing I immediately took to, was that any
minus number was below freezing, and water boiled at 100. For the
bits in the middle, I used three reference points: 10C. is 50F., 16C.
conveniently reverses to 61F., as does 28C., 82F. That gave me cold,
middling and hot (for Belgium) and obviated the need to convert back
to Fahrenheit all the time.
I have forgotten exactly when the US Congress set standards for the metric
system, but I think it was a hundred years or so ago. I used to quote it
in my math classes, but that was a long time ago. I retired six years
ago.
—Betty
Peter, the Fahrenheit scale of 0 to 100 was set from the range
experienced by humans in their natural environment. (In Europe, of
course) So for any measurement of outside temperature Fahrenheit is
more convenient and accurate. And yes, Celsius is less precise
because the units are larger. The difference between comfortable and
uncomfortable under Celsius is only two or three degrees. And have
you ever heard the temperature reported in fractional degrees?
I don't really understand why the Celsius system is seen as preferable
or more "scientific" anyway. What is special about the freezing and
boiling points of water? Surely if one wanted to be "scientific" you
would use degrees Kelvin anyway. I know that Celsius is built into
many scientific measurements (the definition of Calorie, for example)
but that never seemed to me to be a sufficient reason to force
everyone to use it all the time. Unlike other parts of the Metric
system, it doesn't seem to have a lot of advantages.
BTW, I believe that Metrification was passed sometime in the mid
seventies.
//
-Karl \X/ Amiga and Autopilot: The *only* way to fly!
thanks for the explanation on Fahrenheit. That makes a lot of sense.
However, Celsius units aren't THAT large! If the weather man tells
me its going to be 20C tomorrow and it turns out to be 19C or 21C, I
doubt that I am going to be aware of it unless I check a thermometer.
On a day to day basis, cold, warm and hot would probably do. Pete
Jones, Flying on AutoPilot from Brussels, Belgium (where we are
enjoying Lousy weather for August)
Perhaps we are just spoiled here in LA. <g> (Where we are having a
LOVELY summer)
************** (expletives deleted) 🙂 Pete Jones, flying on
AutoPilot from Brussels, Belgium
It's a pleasure to speak to you, too, Peter. 😎
Dom Fontana
–> Sent from NY via AP <–
There is more logic to the international date notation of DD/MM/YY
since it is desending order. There is also more logic to the metric
system. You can't move decimal points around in feet and inches. The
British saw the the light, why can't America? Is it an ego thing?
The metric system was adopted at the beginning of the 19th century.
Are communications sooo slow? As everyone knows, the economy is
world-wide now, not US focussed, and just maybe America will have to
give up its imperial ideas just as Britain was forced to. Hope I
have lit some fires from Canada.
Glenn,
> The British saw the the light, why can't America? Is it an ego
thing?
Yeah, it might be an ego thing, but on YOUR part! 😎
I'm not here to debate what's the better system. The fact is the
DD/MM/YY format is NOT the accepted date format in America. It's not
taught in American schools and that's just the way it is. The
different date formats are confusing enough as it is, but at least
when an American recives correspondence from a foreign country, they
are alerted to the fact that there might be a diferent date format.
For some Americans to start using foreign date formats only confuses
the issue even more. As I said, if someone uses the date 10/8/93 in
America, it means October 8th and not August 10th. So if you want to
be understood in America, then use the American date format, or
you'll be at the risk of having your date read the wrong way.
In a less than perfect world, when I correspond with the U.S, I always put
the date as e.g. 11 August 1993. That way it's still DAY/MONTH/YEAR but
the confusion is removed.
Another thought: In these times of super-fast audio and visual
communication, I'd have thought that British English and American
English would start to move closer together, but it doesn't seem to
be happening. Over the last few years I have noticed the word
'momentarily' being used in American English to mean 'real soon',
–He will be with you momentarily– when I would only use it to mean
'briefly', 'for a few moments'.
Spelling out the month does remove some of the confusion. But it
still looks backwards to me. 😎
BTW Dom, the standard Amiga date format from day one has been
DD/MMM/YY. Aren't you used to it yet? What is confusing or
ambiguous about 10 Aug 93? Of course, that is the style I'm used to
from Government contracts, so I might be biased.
> BTW Dom, the standard Amiga date format from day one has been
DD/MMM/YY. Aren't you used to it yet? What is confusing or
ambiguous about 10 Aug 93? Of course, that is the style I'm used to
from Government contracts, so I might be biased.
No, I'm not used to it yet. I'm aware of the Amiga's date format
and I don't like it. There's nothing confusing or ambiguous about 10
Aug 93, but neither is there anything confusing or ambiguous about
Aug 10, 93, is there? 😎
As I said, I don't consider either way better than the other. It's
just a matter of what you're used to. The American date format is
August 10, 1993, so that's what I prefer to use. It's not as if I
have adopted the Amiga's date format and abandoned the correct
American date format. So that means I have to use one format for the
Amiga and CIS, and the American date format for everything else in my
life. It's a nuisance, that's all. I think it's a matter of common
sense to prefer to use one date format instead of two. Since I've
been using the American date format all my life, obviously I would
prefer to continue to use it for everything, the Amiga and CIS
included.
You may like it because that's the date format you've always used.
How about this? From now on, you can use your date format for the
Amiga and CIS, but you must use the American date format for
everything else, government contracts included. I don't think it will
be much of a problem, because to paraphrase you, there's nothing
confusing or ambiguous about the American date format of August 10,
1993. Enjoy using the American date format from now on in the rest of
your life. 😎
No no no! You're missing the point. The idea is for YOU to have to
change, not ME. <G>
hate to say it, but if you have any dealings whatsoever with the
military, or military contractors, you'll see DD-MMM-YY as well.
_That_ format is what _I_ grew up with, not MMMM DD, YYYY. So, I
wouldn't put much stock by the MMMM DD, YYYY format, although many do
teach that. There are other formats that are regularly used in this
society, including strange ones like YYDDD (Julian ;-).
Yes, but the military also uses military time (something else
that's a real nuisance), but American society-at-large doesn't use
it. Every American business letter I receive uses the Month Day, Year
format and it's the format taught in American schools. Foreign
countries don't change the date format in their countries to
accommodate Americans, so why should we change our date format to
accommodate them. Since someone has to be inconvenienced and use an
unfamiliar date format, it might as well be the foreign countries.
😎 I realize that CIS, an American-based company, has a small
percentage of international users, but by accommodating them, they
are inconveniencing the American users, who make up the bulk of the
membership. I mean if I logged on to a German BBS, I certainly
wouldn't expect them to be using the American date format.
CIS is hardly just accommodating international users. It is pursuing
an aggressive marketing policy worldwide. Cheap and free nodes are
popping up everywhere, and I suspect it won't be long before its
client base is truly international. The fact that it will still be
based in America then becomes irrelevant. Meanwhile, If I continue to
use 15 Aug 93 and you put Aug 15 93, we can avoid confusion. If we
try to use all figure dates 15/08/93 or 08/15/93, it will be even
more complicated in a few years time. what do we make of 01/01/01?
MM/DD/YY? DD/MM/YY? YY/MM/DD?
Pete Jones, flying on AutoPilot from
Brussels/Bruxelles/Brussel/Bruessel, Belgium/Belgique/Belgie/Belgien
(And you think date format is a problem?)
I'm with you, Dom. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. In this case,
America. Let's face it, as far as the U.S. goes, it is number one in
the world so let the world adapt to our ways if there is to be any
adapting done.
I just got out of the Navy, and while DD-MMM-YY is very common, it
seems like we were using about a dozen different styles. It seemed
every other form had a different way to fill out the date.
I guess that is the military for you..