Fossils for Charity
19 messages in this thread
I wonder if anyone can help me out. I'm looking for a few hundred small,
inexpensive, fossils for the local hands-on museum to sell for $.25 up to
$1.00. I've been supplying them out of my own collection, and I'll continue to
supply shark teeth from there because I have lots. Problem is that the best
sellers are turning out to be brachiopods from the Devonian of New York and the
Ordovician of SouthWest Ohio and echinoderms from the Cretacous of Texas.
Twelve moves in twenty years caused me to keep the fossil collection fairly
small, so I didn't have a lot of that stuff to begin with. I'm running out.
Is there any chance that someone traveling say between Cincinnati and Xenia
could stop for a few minutes and scrape together a bag of brachiopods from a
road cut for a good cause? Can't afford to pay for the fossils, but YOU can
take a tax deduction at fair market value. And I will pay for postage.
Where are you located? Which museum is selling the fossils? Is their any
location nearby that produces fossils in relative abundance? I'm sure that if
they've found enough people to buy them, you could find enough volunteers (say,
a local Scout organization, or "friends of the museum") who could help gather
fossils.
Why not upload a text file to the libraries here? And I bet if you ask real
nice, Mr. Sysop will cross-post your request to the Internet rocks-and-fossil
list. 🙂
Come to think of it, I'm sure there's a lot of "local hands-on museums" that
might benefit from a cross-pollinating exchange of fossils that sell for a
couple quarters to touring school kids.
Where do you collect your shark teeth?
Hi, Don and John–
I will indeed forward the inquiry to the Internet mail-list rocks-and-fossils.
Note that anyone can do this; one simply sends CISmail to
">INTERNET:rocks-and-fossils@world.std.com". You could watch my RM00*.ARC
postings in the library for replies, or to get them faster subscribe as noted
in library file INTERN.TXT.
I like the idea of a trading network for bulk quantities of cheap fossils (or
minerals, for that matter). Let each museum or other participant post lists of
what "common as dirt" specimens they have handy, just as several of us have
posted trading lists, and one day it may develop into a large trade. To avoid
shipping charges running up the effective prices too much, one might also want
to list when someone is driving from one city to another who might be willing
to carry several boxes of rocks.
–Doug
The idea appealed to me, too, because there are certainly "spots" around the
country that have these sorts of fossils… I can think of Kansas roadcuts that
interest me by the raw bucketful… crinoid stems, fragile sea fan fragments,
etc. and others have told me of spots in Texas where echinoids can be had by
the bucketful. It would be a great thing for non-profits to handle. For that
matter, I think local rock shows would benefit from exploiting the PR value of
low-priced fossils and dinosaur-oriented displays.
Hi, John–
I was told of such a place while I was visiting Wichita, KS, but those working
trips generally leave me too little time and energy for collecting. It seems
like I have visited this forum from a different state each week for months now;
OK, CA, OK, KS, OK, CA, … I never could have kept up with this forum without
my trusty laptop, and dread the day it fails.
–Doug
>>> I like the idea of a trading network for bulk quantities of cheap fossils
(or minerals, for that matter).
I like the idea also. There are some pragmatic problems.
1. Finding participants. It the moment, we have one probably — a small
museum in Vermont that doesn't seem to have much in the way of suitable fossile
sites nearby. (Might be some OK mineral sites up in the Green Mtns).
2. Packaging. I use 3×1.25 in zip lock bags with labels I print up on the
HP-IIP. Do we ship the fossils packaged and labelled, or does the recipient do
their own packaging and labelling?
3. Pricing. I price the fossils on the labels, and I price them cheap —
maybe half their commercial value. That's fine with the local museum, but it
may not be fine with other museums who may fear that having very inexpensive
items in the store may cut into sales of more expensive items.
4. The fossils (/minerals) are in direct competition with mineral specimens
already available from commercial sources and sold by many museums. The whole
issue may require some special handling and constraints to coexist with them.
5. What sort of volumes are required? We're selling fossils at the rate of a
few hundred a year, but our traffic flow at the museum is small by the
standards of most museums, and we haven't taken the fossils to a fair or other
special event yet (probably will this Autumn).
In the meantime, I sure could use a few pounds of common fossils.
re 141997 All very well-thought-out pragmatic obstacles… But if we could
simply provide a forum for "buyers" and "sellers" of material, they might work
out their differences on their own terms.
For example, Organic Gardening magazine has a popular column called "Seed
Savers Exchange". People send them a letter with a short list of what they
have, and what they want in exchange. You send a SASE and any seeds of their
"wants" and in exchange they send you their "haves." I've responded several
times and it's always worked out.
If the little museum in Vermont finds a little museum in Colorado that wants
maple syrup, maybe they could cut a deal. 🙂
>>>If the little museum in Vermont finds a little museum in Colorado that wants
maple syrup, maybe they could cut a deal. 🙂
The stuff costs a fortune up here too. And if you've ever seen what they go
thru to make it …
—
Yes, a fossil/mineral exchange does sound like a good idea. How would you
establish an exchange rate between a bag of 100 Charcharias teeth and a box
with 35 partial trilobites?
They make maple syrup around here in Wisconsin, too. I have my own "dealers."
🙂 I love the stuff.
As for pricing – in free markets, the only price is set between buyer and
seller. I'm sure both parties would have their own rules of thumb, like
knowing that a local shop sells shark teeth for $1, and trilobites for $3, or
whatever.
If these museums are pitching to kids, I've always thought that a combination
of these little plastic cases with built-in magnifiers and these mini-fossiles
from Kansas roadside gravel would make a great combo.
Hi, Don–
Those are indeed problems for the notion of trading bulk specimens, but they
seem surmountable.
Finding participants: this may be premature, but I expect sooner or later
forums or similar communications media will grow enough to become the medium of
choice for finding trade partners. In the meantime, I suppose someone has to
fork over the cost of classified ads in rockhound mags. I made an inquiry with
rocks-and-fossils; let us see if the on-line rockhound community has already
grown enough for such enterprises.
Packaging and labeling – each trade could be different; the traders just need
to discuss the issue. I would expect the receiver to do the labeling in more
cases than not, since that lets them choose how much is spent there. Some might
just set them out unwrapped, with a pile of labels on the side, while others
may want something fancier. The sender might supply a single information
sheet, if all the info has not already been discussed.
Pricing. I'd say the sender need not worry what the receiver will charge, and
leave price off any labels the sender supplies. Once again, it is most
flexible that way.
Competition. If some museums are not in the network of traders and find their
sales fading, they will be motivated join the network and share in the presumed
bounty. If their sales do not fade, there is no problem.
Volumes. Let the traders discuss and figure this out case by case. Individual
specimen traders manage to overcome differences in size and quality
preferences, though perhaps such barriers to barter help keep the dealers
going.
–Doug
Pursuing some of the issues a little.
Labelling is more of a problem than it seems. Most of the products in museum
stores are commercial products with commercial type packaging. While the
fossil labels don't have to be four color, glossy, and offset print, they do
need not to seem too amateurish.
Competition is more a problem within a museum than externally. Few people shop
museum stores competitively for the best price on inexpensive souveniers. But,
the distributors that currently sell minerals and fossils in many of the stores
are not going to be pleased by cut rate competition. I can't imagine what they
might do about it, but maybe they can do something effective.
Presentation is a problem also. Right now, the Discovery Museum just has the
fossils sitting in a goldfish bowl with a hand lettered label. That's OK for a
small museum in a remote area, but something more professional would be needed
at places like the museums in Balboa Park in San Diego.
Hi, Don–
Whew! My forwarding of your original query to the Internet mail-list
rocks-and-fossils drew a number of responses in only a couple of days before my
mailbox overloaded because someone had subscribed with a bad address that got
to an automated rejection-message sender. Fortunately I had just set up an
alternate CIS account to receive from mail-lists so this did not clobber my
non-list mail. I'll have to send another message asking for re-sends of any I
lost; until then, here are the ones I received, following.
If dealers resent the competition from trading, I would not think they could do
much about it as long as other dealers would be happy to supply the museum with
reasonably similar items. There isn't a fossil dealer cartel, is there?
I see your point about quality labels. With laser printers growing cheap and
common, soon maybe even the museums on a financial tightrope will be able to
get access to such printing, making good-looking labels easy.
–Doug
Subject: Re: Bulk specimens wanted Date: 14-Aug-94 at 16:45 From:
INTERNET:MINDBENDER@aol.com, INTERNET:MINDBENDER@aol.com
RE: fossils I do not have anything in great abundance. Anything which I have
over I donate to a local museum for the kids too. I have a keen interest in
fossils. Do you have any to trade or sell, Preferably sell as I don't
anticipate having anything extra. Where are you getting your shark teeth? What
else might you want in the way of materials?
some good suggestions offered in other letters.
Let me know if you want to sell any. I use them too in my Earth Science club
at school. I teach high school and we are taking a trip next sat to the local
tarpit museum and the museum of nat. history. Always a good trip. walt
Subject: Re: Bulk specimens wanted Date: 15-Aug-94 at 06:44 From:
INTERNET:ax123@freenet.carleton.ca, INTERNET:ax123@freenet.carleton.ca
I also collect and give alot of nondescript fossils to the local museum and to
my wife who teaches Natural science to school children.
Although I do not have much for trade at present I would be interested in
trading. I can supply trilobites-mostly ceraurus and triarthurus and bryzoan
from ordovician. Obviously the trilobites are mostly heads and tails as I keep
the best for myself but would also trade these. > > >
Subject: Re: Bulk specimens wanted Date: 15-Aug-94 at 12:13 From: Steve
Speer, INTERNET:ses@seahawk.fc.hp.com
Are any of you guys interested in petrified wood as a fossil specimen? I have
a lot of it that is of questionable lapidary value that I typically give to
neighborhood kids who love the stuff. I have pieces of every size imaginable.
Probably enough that most kids could discern different types of trees being
preserved (ring structure, etc.). Let me know if you want some.
-Steve
Subject: Petrified Wood Date: 15-Aug-94 at 16:23 From:
INTERNET:lynn@wb6hqk.ampr.org, INTERNET:lynn@wb6hqk.ampr.org
Hi Steve,
I'd be interested in a few of your petrified wood pieces for my collection
and for use in the geology classes I teach. E-mail me directly at
lynn@wb6hqk.ampr.org. Thanks.
Lynn
Subject: Re: Bulk specimens wanted Date: 16-Aug-94 at 07:19 From:
INTERNET:ax123@freenet.carleton.ca, INTERNET:ax123@freenet.carleton.ca
I am interested in receiving about 5 pounds of this petrified material.I would
pay you for the shipping or alternatively send you some mineral samples in
return.
Dave Sangster
5408 West River Road
Manotick On.
K4M 1G5
Subject: Re: Bulk specimens wanted Date: 16-Aug-94 at 11:07 From:
INTERNET:dprmdm@Arco.COM, INTERNET:dprmdm@Arco.COM
David,
I noticed you have some minerals to trade. Would you be interested in trading
with me? What do you have?
Mike McCormack dprmdm@arco.com
————————————————————
Michael D. McCormack ARCO E&PT (214) 754-6918
AI Development
fax 754-6291 Group
————————————————————
Subject: bulk fossils? Date: 16-Aug-94 at 18:08 From:
INTERNET:mcgarry@geoserv.isgs.uiuc.edu, INTERNET:mcgarry@geoserv.isgs.uiuc.edu
Doug….
Although I am not a member of the CompuServe Science forum, I am on the rocks-
and-fossils bulletin board. I recently joined and may have missed out on the
dialogue. I am planning to do a bit of fossil collecting in the mid-Devonian
of New York. Let me know if there is anything I can help you with. It sounds
like a worthy cause. Perhaps I can help.
Christopher McGarry mcgarry@geoserv.isgs.uiuc.edu
John
I'm in Essex Junction, VT — and the Discovery Museum here somehow keeps
running in an area that by any rational standards has about 25% of the minimum
population base required to support such a museum. It's worse than that
actually, because Essex Junction is well out on the fringe of the Burlington
"Metropolitan Area".
There are some fossils in the Champlain valley, but I haven't found a suitable
site for collecting the sort of things the museum might sell, or even decent
trading material.
Trading with another museum is a good thought — I'll check with the director
and see if Dayton, Cincinnati, Austin or Buffalo have a museum we might work
with.
You're in San Diego, right? Perhaps you could help. I think some of the
material from the Tourmaline Street Surfing Park Cliffs might be suitable as
would some of the Pleistocene stuff from Crown Point. Last time I went thru
there, it looked to me like they were "improving" the Bay Point outcrop out of
existance. If you ever go up to LA to collect at the Gibson St Locality in
Wilmington, a bag of the shells from there would be perfect.
The shark teeth are mostly from the Calvert Cliffs, Northern Virginia, and
Sharktooth Hill, but I've done some trading, and I've collected at a lot of
other sites including the now closed Lawrence Canyon locality at Oceanside —
have a nice Charcharadon from a road cut on Washington St in San Diego. If you
work/live near there, it's worth checking after a heavy rain.
I'm in Wisconsin, halfway between Madison and Milwaukee. Rock around here is
mostly Ordovician / Silurian, with a thin strip of Devonian along Lake
Michigan. No shark teeth around here. I can't think of an overwhelmingly
plentiful fossil collecting site around here. Everything I've found has to be
extracted from limestone, by application of sweat. 🙂
Wisonsin. Sure got that wrong.
Limestone, Yechhh. The specimens have to be awfully nice to get me to collect
in that stuff.
How far afield do you get in your collecting? My impression is that there are
a lot of pretty good sites in Illinois and Indiana, but mostly in the Southern
parts. I've lived in Dayton, OH where the fossil collecting is excellent and
Detroit where it's pretty poor (hundreds of feet of glacial overburden over
most of the bedrock.) Also lived in Southern California and Northern Virginia,
where most of the fossils sites are paved, landscaped or fenced off. Maybe
limestone's not that bad after all. Beats nothing at all.
My interest in collecting has been renewed only in the past few years, but so
far, I've only made trips to sites within an hour's drive from here, apart from
spots "along the way" when I travel to other places. So for example, I've
checked out a number of sites around Kansas City and Topeka, and last weekend,
around Dubuque. The only problem with limestone is getting to the good stuff
before they crush it and turn it into road gravel!
< I've lived in Dayton, OH where the fossil collecting is excellent >
Where's a good place in Dayton? It's only an hour or so from me.
I think that's Ordovician, right?
Joe Hayes
< The shark teeth are mostly from the Calvert Cliffs >
I used to live in southern Maryland. Calvert Cliffs is nice but the
crowds in the State Park can get thick.
Another nice place for Miocene fossils is Aurora, North Carolina.
I went there last year (and I'm going again in October). I came
back with a lot of nice shells and a sanggletooth shark tooth
(Hemipristis serra) that's about 1.5" long.
I also brought back some dirt (just shoveled some stuff into a
bucket). It's amazing how many nice thumb-nail specimens you
can find in a gallon of dirt.
I think this time I'll lay off the shells. There's a 5" Carcharadon
megalodon out there with my name on it <g>.
Joe Hayes
Columbus, Ohio
(the home of boring Devonian limestones)
Joe
If you could be persuaded to take a drive out to Xenia then about 10-15 miles
down the road toward Cincinnati — I think it's US 35 (it's 4:14 am and my Road
Atlas is in the car)– I'd be eternally grateful. What I'd like are a few
hundred of the brachiopods that are very abundant in the roadcuts around the
Preble-Green County line.
What's in it for you? Well, I've got a lot of shark teeth from a lot of
places. I'll be happy to send you some. (No Charcharadon to give away,
regrettably). And you might well find some things of interest in those road
cuts — small enrolled specimens of Flexicalymene or Isotelus. Found a
starfish arm once. I had to leave a 3 inch Isotelus once when overcome by
darkness. Covered it up and never was able to find it again. But I think I
can give you directions to the right road cut if you want to look for yourself.
Don