CompuServe Thread

#3DS benchmark

93 messages in this thread
#192031From: REZA DASTMALCHIANSep 21, 1995 8:17 PM
Trying to find a 3DS-R4 rendering benchmark. Would like to know for examples how fast a .3DS file like the CHEVY will render on different computers. This is for evaluating my own machines performance. Thanks, -Reza
#192038From: Terry MillerSep 21, 1995 9:11 PM
Reza, >> ..how fast a 3DS file like the CHEVY will render…<< I did that test with someone a while back. At 1024 x 768 x 1 with the whole list set to on (Anti-Aliasing, etc.) my Pentium 100 came in at 3:18. That's a dual but I don't think it matters with R4. I'm also quoting that time from memory, so if that doesn't sound right, let me know and I'll do it again. Terry
#192116From: REZA DASTMALCHIANSep 22, 1995 12:16 PM
Terry: Thank you for your reply and the offer to run that CHEVY.3DS test again. I would appreciate another reading on your render time on your P100 with CHEVY.3DS. I have recently upgraded my machine with a no-name P100 mother board and I suspect that I may bought a white elephant! Sincerely, -Reza
#192156From: Terry MillerSep 22, 1995 4:58 PM
Reza, With settings at default 1024 x 768 x 1, everything down to and including Autoreflect on. Rendering to Disk and motion blur shows on during the render, but I think that has nothing to do with image time. Render time was 3 minutes 12 seconds, and total time until the 21" screen was filled was 4 minutes 7 seconds. We each have P100 boards but may have ram and cache differences. I have 128 MB RAM with 512K cache. I am also running Liquid Speed, but I assume everyone with 3DS does also. What kind of times did you turn and how much RAM? From what I understand, that's where the speed and power is. I'd like to know how they match up if you have a different amount of RAM. I am debating right now whether to get a second dual, or just chock this one full of RAM with an accelerator card when MAX arrives. Hope this is helpful, -Terry
#192221From: Greg WoznicaSep 23, 1995 10:13 AM
Do you just want the time it takes to renders the chevy at 1024? Let me know I have a P120, and I can send back the time matt 🙂 -Mike Allen
#192282From: REZA DASTMALCHIANSep 23, 1995 11:46 PM
Yes Mike, if you could please render the CHEVY.3DS at 640×480 with all defaults and no DISPLAY and post your result. Thanks, -Reza
#192365From: John N. JordanSep 24, 1995 11:23 PM
>CHEVY.3DS at 640×480 with all defaults and no DISPLAY and post your result.< For your records, P100, 32MB 512k cache Intergraph TD-30 (neptune chipset) 640×480, no display, no save. – 1:35. JNJ
#192373From: MARTIN G FOSTERSep 25, 1995 12:30 AM
everybody, you should all make sure you post your pixel size (typically 1.1 to 1.5) because this really has an effect on speed.
#192443From: Stephen C. LevySep 25, 1995 1:06 PM
Martin, Good catch! I checked, and Pixel Size is NOT one of the settings saved with 3DS files. Since we're trying to come up with a "standard," and 3DS.SET defaults to a Pixel Size of 1.2, that setting sounds good to me for these testing purposes. The more numbers we get, the better! I'm personally interested in results from those with accellerator boards — That Sept. issue of BYTE wherein they compared an Intergraph machine with an Omnicomp 3Demon and a Millenium board piqued my interest! SCL
#192459From: MARTIN G FOSTERSep 25, 1995 2:50 PM
Stephen, >> a Pixel Size of 1.2 << I suggest keeping it at 1.1 for the tests, since that is the default anyway. Mainly I just wanted people to not pixel-size because this has a large impact on rendering time. Also, if I want to test processor against processor, I turn off mapping completely so that you eliminate disk sub-system variations. Instead I raise the resolution to get a good number to compare. For example: chevy.3ds, 1024×768, everything ON except Mapping OFF, pixel-size 1.1, no display, no save to disk.
#192511From: Stephen C. LevySep 25, 1995 6:44 PM
Oops; guess it's been so long since I saw a "virgin" 3DS.SET that my memory's slipping… <g> thanx for your input; if we can get large number of responses, the results should be interesting…
#192572From: MARTIN G FOSTERSep 26, 1995 1:50 AM
I did the 2 tests on my generic brand Intel chipset m/board Pentium 90 w/32mb ram: 1024×768 all on EXCEPT mapping, pixel 1.1, no display, no save — 2:33 640×480 all on, pixel 1.1, no display, no save — 1:48 (faster than a comparable Micronics based system I had by 6 seconds). It's also interesting to note that you can shave a few seconds off by using no memory manager at all – not a good idea if you have more than 64mb RAM. I have a Pentium 100 at work I'll try the test on.
#192728From: ken leeSep 26, 1995 7:52 PM
P-90/32 Meg/512k cache/Matrox impression plus Chevy.3ds at 640×480 with all defaults except no Mapping, no display 1:38
#192502From: John N. JordanSep 25, 1995 6:20 PM
Martin, The pixel size for my post was 1.1. JNJ
#192487From: Matthew VaughnSep 25, 1995 4:54 PM
Reza, >CHEVY.3DS at 640×480 with all defaults and no DISPLAY and post your result.< I tried the test on my 90mhz Pentium w/32mb ram, it's one of the early Intel mobos (July 94) with the Plato chipset. The test ran 1:50 (110 sec). Matt (Active Media Graphics) Y 50 /g fM/
#192519From: Jason LangeSep 25, 1995 7:56 PM
Chevy.3ds at 640×480, all defaults, 1.1 pixel size. 2:30 on a gateway 2000 P-60 with 24 megs of Ram, Diamond Viper PCI. 1023×768 with maps off, 3:39. Hope this helps, Jason
#192612From: JOHN HOSTICKSep 26, 1995 10:01 AM
Just adding to your chevy.3ds rendering benchmarks: P120 64 Mb Ram ATI Graphics Pro Turbo 4 Mb PCI 640 x 480 renders in 1:33 on my machine. 1024 x 768 renders in 2:45 All rendering settings set at default.
#192646From: Tim Krego, [pro.image]Sep 26, 1995 1:03 PM
>P120 >64 Mb Ram >ATI Graphics Pro Turbo 4 Mb PCI >640 x 480 renders in 1:33 on my machine. >1024 x 768 renders in 2:45 My system: P100, 32MB RAM, #9GXE64Pro 640×480 – 1:37 1024X768 – 2:22
#192190From: Stephen C. LevySep 22, 1995 9:32 PM
Just for the sake of comparison, I rendered CHEVY.3DS @ 640×480, all defaults per the 3DS file, on my DX2/66 w/32 megs. It took 5:16 — gotta get a new box!!!!!
#192281From: REZA DASTMALCHIANSep 23, 1995 11:44 PM
Steve: Yes, you should expect to get about 370% to 400% rendering time improvement with a P100. Make sure you get the Intel Triton chipset on it and you can even salvage your 32meg RAM chips. However, the new EDO RAM should up the performance even more. Thanks for your reply. -Reza
#192302From: Stephen C. LevySep 24, 1995 4:10 AM
Yes, I'm well aware of the speed improvements, having worked at places with Pentiums. Actually, I'm just waiting for the P150 to debut to make my move. But I'm also elaborating on your idea and trying to get a standard 3DS benchmark established so anyone can compare their rendering speed with what's been posted. Chevy.3DS is a good file to use. According to my memory-used line, it looks like it'll BARELY fit in 16 megs without creating a swap file at 640×480. IMHO, it's a good idea to render it exactly as the file comes with 3DS (metal shading, etc.) so we're all doing exactly the same thing. BTW, I think your renderings are only defaulting to 1024 because that's how you have your display set in VIB.CFG, not because Chevy.3DS is set that way.
#192344From: Bob KohlSep 24, 1995 4:22 PM
<<<Just for the sake of comparison, I rendered CHEVY.3DS @ 640×480, all defaults per the 3DS file,>>> Did the same with my 486DX4-100Mhz w/20Mb ram. time 3:58. So speed isn't everything, Pentium vs. 486 shows a differance in architecture, and that counts as much. Ram is only relevent when you start swapping, which I didn't for this test ( mem used 15mb.) Bob Kohl Gidille inc. -Bob Kohl
#192485From: DAN SPOMERSep 25, 1995 4:42 PM
Chevy.3ds, 640×480, Null output, Pixel size 1.1, Camera Viewport Micronics P90 Motherboard, 64 meg RAM Render Time 1:50
#192639From: James M. MurphySep 26, 1995 12:43 PM
Chevy.3ds, 640×480, Null output, Pixel size 1.1, Camera Viewport ASUS P120 Motherboard, 32 meg RAM Render Time 1:31 (91 seconds) for what it's worth. Murph'
#192622From: Rick MillerSep 26, 1995 10:51 AM
Reza, Here is my results for the rendering benchmarks: Pixel Size:1.1 Display:Null Save File:No Mapping-Off Mapping-On 640x480x1.0 0:59 1:23 1024x768x1.0 1:58 2:50 SuperMicro P55CMS motherboard with 256k pipelined busrt cache and 32mb ram. Regards………….Rick – Technical Animations
#192628From: MARTIN G FOSTERSep 26, 1995 11:50 AM
Rick, >> SuperMicro P55CMS motherboard with 256k pipelined busrt cache << I assume that's a Pentium 133, isn't it? Impressive results. Does it have EDO ram?
#192687From: Rick MillerSep 26, 1995 4:43 PM
Martin, >>I assume that's a Pentium 133, isn't it? Impressive results. Does it have EDO ram?<< I went back and rendered again to verify my results and got the same number within 1 second. Thats a Pentium 100 with 60ns ram and ___no___ EDO ram. Maybe there is something different about my settings. When I rendered, with mapping ON the settings in the dialog box were: Phong | View: Camera03 On | Video Color Check: Off On | Gama: On On | Fields: Off On* | On | Off | Off | Show | Tile | * With mapping turned off this setting would change to OFF. Here are my results again for the rendering benchmarks: Pixel Size:1.1 Display:Null Save File:No Shading:Phong Mapping-Off Mapping-On 640x480x1.0 0:59 1:24 (+1) 1024x768x1.0 1:58 2:49 (-1) ( ) Indicates a change from my first message on rendering times. Regards………Rick – Technical Animations
#192719From: MARTIN G FOSTERSep 26, 1995 7:20 PM
Rick, I think that you should have Metal shading on. Those results are out-of-line with what one would expect from a Pentium 100.
#192866From: Rick MillerSep 27, 1995 3:13 PM
Martin, I went back and copied the original 3ds4 set file and tried again with no change. When I click on render, I get a message that says "WARNING: Rendering to NULL without disk output. Are you sure this is what you want?" Is this what everyone else is getting? Just to make sure, the file that I'm rendering is "Chevy.3ds – 936,668kb – 1/15/95 @ 12:00am Any ideas what could make the difference, surely they didn't install a P120 by mistake, Nah… couldn't happen<BG> Regards……….Rick – Technical Animations
#192872From: MARTIN G FOSTERSep 27, 1995 3:33 PM
Rick, >> Any ideas what could make the difference, surely they didn't install a P120 by mistake, Nah… couldn't happen<BG> << must be because I can't explain it <g>. Somebody should come over to your studio and make sure you're not feeding your cpu steroids <G>.
#193039From: Matthew VaughnSep 28, 1995 7:10 PM
Rick, The error when you select no display with without disk output is normal. The reason that this is used (I think) for these benchmarks is to take the video card out of the loop. Your system is pretty quick, but try with shading to metal, changing from phong to metal increases my render times by four seconds. -Matt (Active Media Graphics) Y 50 /g fM/
#193054From: Rick MillerSep 28, 1995 8:55 PM
Matthew, >>The error when you select no display with without disk output is normal. The reason that this is used (I think) for these benchmarks is to take the video card out of the loop.<< I was trying to confirm that the settings I was using were identical to the other person. You are right though, it does not make any sense to render with no display and not save the file<BG>. >>Your system is pretty quick, but try with shading to metal, changing from phong to metal increases my render times by four seconds.<< It seemed to add 4 seconds to the 640×480 images and 8-9 seconds to the 1024×768 images when I went from Phong to Metal. Regards………..Rick – Technical Animations
#192756From: John N. JordanSep 26, 1995 11:22 PM
-Chevy specs- Intergraph TD-30, Pentium 100, Neptune chipset,512k cache, 32MB Camera3- 3D Editor, 1.1 pixel, metal shading, etc. No Mapping Mapping 640×480 1:08 1:33 1024×768 2:16 3:09 BTW- I don't believe Phong is the default setting, rendering it with Phong yielded a 11 second improvement over Metal at 1024 here. JNJ
#192865From: Rick MillerSep 27, 1995 3:13 PM
John, >>BTW- I don't believe Phong is the default setting, rendering it with Phong yielded a 11 second improvement over Metal at 1024 here.<< The difference between Phong and Metal when I render at 1024 with mapping on is 8 seconds. Regards…………Rick – Technical Animations
#192705From: Stephen C. LevySep 26, 1995 6:58 PM
Thanks for your most-impressive numbers! Hate to be a pest, but when you've got time could you run it one more time, with METAL shading? On my machine, that only adds a few seconds — I wonder what about your machine is making it so fast — if you've been looking at the other numbers, I'm sure you've seen that everybody else is running significantly slower — Couldn't be ALL due to that 60-ns RAM, do you think?
#192717From: Terry MillerSep 26, 1995 7:14 PM
Stephen, I also have 60ns RAM and I can't turn the numbers Rick is churning out over there. The 640 numbers only changed by 4 seconds from Phong (1:05) to Metal (1:09) on my system. I wonder if we are using the same pixel sixe, 1.1? Terry
#192800From: Rick MillerSep 27, 1995 9:19 AM
Terry, Yes, I'm using the default pixel size of 1.1. There must be something different about my settings, but I have not figured it out yet. Are you looking at the numbers with or without mapping? When I turned on Metal shading and rendered 640x480x1 w/o mapping the time went from 0.59 to 1:04. Any ideas? Regards…………….Rick – Technical Animations
#192846From: MARTIN G FOSTERSep 27, 1995 1:18 PM
Rick, >> Any ideas? << maybe you hid something <g>. seriously though, has the file been modified since being installed? The file date on it (r4c1) should be 1/15/95.
#192877From: Rick MillerSep 27, 1995 3:44 PM
Martin, >>maybe you hid something <g>.<< I swear, I didn't hide anything, except the car.<BG>. Once I even set the Hide or Show button in the dialog box to Show, just to make sure. >>seriously though, has the file been modified since being installed? The file date on it (r4c1) should be 1/15/95.<< Same date that I have, see my reply to your earlier message. Maybe Qemm 6.0 is faster than 7.5….. who knows. Regards………Rick – Technical Animations
#192902From: Stephen C. LevySep 27, 1995 6:45 PM
Rick, I just saw you're using QEMM — did you see the exchange between Martin and I where we were discussing a separate boot menu item bypassing QEMM (if you don't have more than 64 megs)? I do that for big renders and gain about an extra meg available to 3DS, and knock as much as 10% off my rendering times. Just load a minimal config, letting it all load low — No EMM386, no HIMEM.SYS; just so long as you've got about 250K left of low memory, it should give you a bit of an improvement, too!
#192959From: ALAN IGLESIASSep 28, 1995 10:28 AM
Steven, please keep in mind that using no memory manager does not *gaurantee* a shortening of rendering times. It really depends on the machine. After doing quite a bit of testing on different systems, I advise clients to perform render benchmarks on 3DS machines with no MM, QEMM, and Himem to see which one their machine seems to like best, and go with the fastest one. It varies greatly, and there doesn't seem to be any obvious pattern. Of course, if you need >64Mb RAM then all bets are off and QEMM is your only choice. -Alan
#193000From: Stephen C. LevySep 28, 1995 3:10 PM
That's interesting… I've only tried it on 3 different machines, but it worked on all three, so I'd concluded that it was a general rule-of-thumb. Thanx for the info! SCL
#192975From: Rick MillerSep 28, 1995 12:04 PM
Stephen, Thanks for the tip, when I get a chance I will give it a try. Regards………..Rick – Technical Animations
#192848From: Terry MillerSep 27, 1995 1:26 PM
Rick, I don't know, maybe something in the options box. Dither 256 or true color, 16 or 24 bit depth? I don't really know enough to say. I tried different settings with all these things and still could not get times under one minute. Are you looking at the time at the bottom of the screen, or the last frame time? The last frame time is always a few seconds faster than the status line time. If it's none of that, then you are just obviously running an illegal restrictor plate. <g> What about Liquid Speed? Doesn't that adjust it's acceleration depending on what driver you are using? Maybe you just have the very best combo there is. Whatever it is, Salutes! Terry
#192876From: Rick MillerSep 27, 1995 3:44 PM
Terry, >>Dither 256 or true color, 16 or 24 bit depth?<< I'm sure its set to 24 bit and pretty sure that Dither 256 is on. >>Are you looking at the time at the bottom of the screen, or the last frame time? The last frame time is always a few seconds faster than the status line time.<< I'm rendering from the 3D Editor and using the times reported at the bottom of the screen. >>If it's none of that, then you are just obviously running an illegal restrictor plate. <g> << Tell me where it's at so I can work on it and we will really boggie<BG>. >>Whatever it is, Salutes!<< Thanks, but I really owe it all to Mark at MIND COMPUTER CONSULTANTS, he is the one that put it together. Regards……………..Rick – Technical Animations
#192867From: Rick MillerSep 27, 1995 3:13 PM
Stephen, Here are the number you wanted with Metal Shading. SuperMicro P100; P55CMS w/256k piplined burst cache; 32mb of 60ns ram File: Chevy.3ds/936,668kb/1-15-95 @ 12:00am Pixel Size: 1.1 Display: Null Save File: No Shading: Metal Mapping-Off Mapping-On 640x480x1 1:03(+4) 1:28(+4) 1024x768x1 2:08(+9) 2:57(+8) ( ) denotes additional seconds for Metal shading vs. Phong shading >>Couldn't be ALL due to that 60-ns RAM, do you think?<< If it is, it's the best $40 I've ever spent!! Regards………..Rick – Technical Animations
#192879From: MARTIN G FOSTERSep 27, 1995 4:13 PM
Rick, I did some more tests on another machine at my office and your times aren't that far out of line. I suspect your cache type is reponsible for a slight 4-10% speed increase over my system. I remember Gary Yost saying that that new cache design could boost performance up to 10%. I think the RAM speed is less significant. I've tried 70ns versus 80ns with no speed difference in 3ds. Here's my times next to yours (yours are in parentheses): Asus P100; P54C w/512k write-back cache; 196mb of 70ns ram 2 cpu's installed (no difference in DOS). File: Chevy.3ds/936,668kb/1-15-95 @ 12:00am Pixel Size: 1.1 Display: Null Save File: No Shading: Metal Mapping-Off Mapping-On 640x480x1 (1:07)1:10 (1:32)1:40 1024x768x1 (2:17)2:22 (3:05)3:23 Interestingly, with mapping off your speeds are only 4-5% less, but with mapping on they are 8-9% less. I have a fast disk sub-system (Seagate Barracuda 2.1gb Fast and Wide on a Adaptec 2940W PCI controller) but no disk cache (hardware or software). Are you using any disk caching software? (smartdrive) Hardware? (eg. on the controller board). What type of disk sub-system do you have? Caches might help on repeat renders of the same scene As a guide to disk access and it's effects, my HD light shows my hardrive is working for about 6 seconds when I render with mapping on. Course, it doesn't go on at all with no mapping (no disk access at all). Food for thought, eh? Martin
#192895From: Jason LangeSep 27, 1995 6:18 PM
I've noticed that some people are unsure of what the default settings are for the chevy. So I was thinking that wouldn't it be possible for one of use to make a chevy.vue (I think .vue is the file were you can render straight from dos with specififc settings) file. It could the be uploaded and anyone could download it and just render without having to worry about pixel size or anything else. Just a thought Jason
#192976From: Rick MillerSep 28, 1995 12:04 PM
Martin, >>I suspect your cache type is reponsible for a slight 4-10% speed increase over my system. I remember Gary Yost saying that that new cache design could boost performance up to 10%.<< Its good to know that some of the new technology is translating into real world performance gains. >>I think the RAM speed is less significant. I've tried 70ns versus 80ns with no speed difference in 3ds.<< It only cost me another $40 for the 60ns versus the 70ns, I didn't get hurt anyway. >>Interestingly, with mapping off your speeds are only 4-5% less, but with mapping on they are 8-9% less. I have a fast disk sub-system (Seagate Barracuda 2.1gb Fast and Wide on a Adaptec 2940W PCI controller) but no disk cache (hardware or software).<< I have the same controller although I don't have the wide Quatum Atlas 2.1MB SCSI drive, just fast. It seems as though my drive has a 1mb buffer, I guess thats the same as a hardware cache. >>Are you using any disk caching software? (smartdrive) Hardware? (eg. on the controller board). What type of disk sub-system do you have? Caches might help on repeat renders of the same scene<< I disabled smartdrive and tested again. The only difference was an additional 2-3 seconds at 1024×768 with mapping ON, all the others were the same within 1 second. I have the Adaptec 2940w without any cache, unless Mark gave me something we didn't discuss. >>As a guide to disk access and it's effects, my HD light shows my hardrive is working for about 6 seconds when I render with mapping on. << I tried to time my HD light with a stop watch and got around 4 to 4.5 seconds with mapping on. This just does not make sense, you have a fast & wide SCSI drive, it should be faster. >>Course, it doesn't go on at all with no mapping (no disk access at all).<< With no mapping my system still hits the HD for 1 second or less, at the very end of "Transforming Objects". You mis-read my numbers for METAL shading, the "( )" numbers should have been subtracted from the adjacent number to get back to phong shading. The following numbers in ( ) are for my METAL shading times: SuperMicro P55CMS; P100; 256k Pipelined Burst Cache; 32mb-60ns Ram File: Chevy.3ds/936,668kb/1-15-95 @ 12:00am Pixel Size: 1.1 Display: Null Save File: No Shading: Metal Dither 256: On Mapping-Off Mapping-On 640x480x1 (1:03)1:10 (1:28)1:40 1024x768x1 (2:08)2:22 (2:57)3:23 Regards……….Rick – Technical Animations
#192995From: MARTIN G FOSTERSep 28, 1995 2:40 PM
Rick, wow, we could get really deep into this analysis couldn't we? I'm pretty much satisfied that you're getting most of your performance from the new cache design. Something to consider when buying a new system – ask for the super ruptured pipeline cache <g>. the next step would be to start comparing memory managers (none, himem, qemm6, qemm7.5 etc). Oh well, maybe another time I'm in crunch mode at work…..
#193006From: Rick MillerSep 28, 1995 3:20 PM
Martin, You are right, this stuff does not pay the bills<G>. Regards……..Rick – Technical Animations
#193024From: John N. JordanSep 28, 1995 5:07 PM
Martin, My disk subsystem is a PCI Adaptec, with only a 5400RPM type SCSI drive (connor). I'm suprised your killer Barracuda isn't reflected. Have you had any experience with Atlas drives? JNJ
#193289From: MARTIN G FOSTERSep 30, 1995 1:04 PM
JNJ, >> I'm suprised your killer Barracuda isn't reflected. << I think they excel on larger files. Also it may need a defrag. >> Have you had any experience with Atlas drives? << No. What are they?
#193593From: John N. JordanOct 2, 1995 5:51 PM
Martin, >I think they excel on larger files. Also it may need a defrag.< yeah, Chevy isn't that disk map intensive, and those 7200 RPM drives don't do well at jumping around the disk for small files. I'd gladly trade though. 🙂 >Atlas drives Quantum makes them, they're similar to your 7200 Barracuda's- but a little newer. They make a killer four gig with a 2MB cache. JNJ
#193646From: MARTIN G FOSTEROct 2, 1995 11:40 PM
JNJ, >> those 7200 RPM drives don't do well at jumping around the disk for small files. << true, but they excel in swap-file situations. I recently saw this in action. I have some rendering machines which have the same RAM and CPU, but some have just a standard 500mb IDE drive, others have 2.1gb fast and wide Seagate Barracuda's with an Adaptec 2940 wide controller. Yet another machine had 192mb RAM and had no swap. Here are some frame times: IDE drive, 128Mb RAM, 80Mb swap file 1 hr 15 mins Scsi F/Wide, 128Mb RAM, 80Mb swap file 15 mins Scsi F/Wide, 196Mb RAM, no swap file 7 mins Kind of shows you, if you are going to get a swap file situation (and we all do sooner or later) then it pays to have a fast disk sub-system. The above results show me that the systems with the IDE become practically useless with even a smallish swap file, while the SCSI fast/wide ones are still somewhat useful.
#193665From: Robert C. RitgerOct 3, 1995 12:56 AM
Martin: Wow! I knew that I chose SCSI for a reason but I never thought that it would be so much quicker. Thanks for posting those numbers. – Bob Ritger
#193670From: Ernie JacksonOct 3, 1995 1:01 AM
>> IDE drive, 128Mb RAM, 80Mb swap file 1 hr 15 mins Scsi F/Wide, 128Mb RAM, 80Mb swap file 15 mins Scsi F/Wide, 196Mb RAM, no swap file 7 mins << WOW! That sure proves that swapping "kills" and more ram expenditure is cost effective in a production environment. Thanks for the benchmarks. – ej
#193810From: MARTIN G FOSTEROct 3, 1995 4:01 PM
Ernie, >> more ram expenditure is cost effective in a production environment << well, that's true up to a certain point. RAM is so darned expensive still that it shows that it's worth spending a bit of a price premium for a decent disk sub-system – I wish I had now, but fast/wide drives tend to be 2gb and up. The standard IDE drive just doesn't cut it for any type of swapping.
#193732From: John N. JordanOct 3, 1995 9:46 AM
Martin, Your times are certainly a significant reason for going with a fast SCSI subsystem. I noticed the advantage a few years ago when I upgraded my ~12ms IDE to an 8.5ms 5400 IDE drive.. major improvement at the time. Now, I certainly need it. Here at work, We've got a Barracuda 2gb, and Fast (not Wide) system, and it's well worth it. (but Wide would be better) I'll be upgrading to one of those 4gb Atlas drives I mentioned real soon (on my TD) Intergraph didn't bundle one on the package, and it's cheaper buying it myself. Do you know if the AV 7200 drives (like Micropolis') are better than a Barracuda/Atlas type drive? I'm not sure if the t-cal stuff is worth it for non AV work. (like page files, tex map loads, etc.) It looks like it's time to upgrade that one IDE system. 🙂 BTW- are your meshes really big, or is most of the RAM needed for film rez tex maps? (or both? <g>) JNJ
#193812From: MARTIN G FOSTEROct 3, 1995 4:08 PM
JNJ, >> Here at work, We've got a Barracuda 2gb, and Fast (not Wide) system, and it's well worth it. (but Wide would be better) << It'd be interesting to see how much the wide drives compare to merely fast Barracudas would perform in this swapping scenario. >> Do you know if the AV 7200 drives (like Micropolis') are better than a Barracuda/Atlas type drive? << I don't know, but I'd guess it wouldn't help much in swapping scenarios. >> BTW- are your meshes really big, or is most of the RAM needed for film rez tex maps? (or both? <g>) the last couple of projects it's been really big geometry, not so much texture maps. We often have multi-million face scenes now – that's the kind of detail our clients demand.
#194674From: CCOct 10, 1995 3:05 AM
Latest 3ds Chevy.3ds benchmark CYBERIMAGE P133 NT Workstation with Asus Triton board and 8ns pipelined cache and 60ns EDO ram 640 res with all defaults and mapping on 1:05 640 res with defaults , mapping OFF :45 SEC !!! P133 overclked to 150mhz 36 Sec !! Hard Drive is a Quantum FIREBALL EIDE mode 4 dma 2 5400 rpm very fast on triton !! video S64 video vram Cameron CYBERIMAGE
#194689From: John N. JordanOct 10, 1995 8:32 AM
Hey Cameron, Nice specs. Certainly the fastest posted. (better be!) With the inprovement of the overclocking, I'd think that it'd be worth the possible shortened lifespan to guys like Martin where scenes are huge, deadlines even "huger" and every second saved is worth good money. What are the NT HELL specs? You've got me curious on what a 133 would do on my TD.. It'd be interesting to tell. Hmm.. 😉 Have you done anything with the Atlas/Atlas2 drives? I hear there's an Atlas 2 out now.. even faster. Is anyone saving all the #'s posted? If not, I'll go back sometime and compile them. JNJ
#194744From: Stephen C. LevyOct 10, 1995 4:42 PM
John, I'd broached the subject of compiling all these numbers into one reference doc to Anne when this all started. She replied that she was forwarding the msg to the FA of Hardware (I think she said Greg Pyros). I haven't heard anything on the subject since, but I've got about 60 msgs. on the subject, spread across four or five threads. That's not all of 'em, but it's a good sampling. BTW, I calculated that Cameron's overclocked 150, if he'd had mapping turned on, would've done it in :52. I wonder if we can consider this a preview of what 'real' 150s will do?!? 'Faster clock speeds, bigger hard drives, cooler IPASs, more RAM!' (Remember that old "Faster Horses" tune?–I think it was Tom T. Hall.) SCL
#194757From: Rick MillerOct 10, 1995 5:48 PM
Cameron, Very nice times!!! How do you speed up your Pentium, is there a jumper that makes the change in clock speed? Regards……………..Rick – Technical Animations
#195694From: CCOct 17, 1995 12:05 AM
Hi Rick, if you have a 2.5clk jumper, you can set the p133 to 60mhz ext speed and 2.5 clk =150mhz it is not always perfect though, produces errors sometimes in Win 95\nt, but since 3ds is dos based, timing is not as critical and sensitive. have not tried to set a p133 at 66 x 2,5 to get 167, but it is on my list. we got the new ASUS SiS based p55's in , they support 1 simm at a time, and have support for AMD k5 and Cyrix M1, as well as P167 they are FAST ! Cameron CI
#194976From: Timothy P. SmithOct 11, 1995 8:36 PM
Hi Cameron, Have you seen my post for my SMP55 100Mghz running at 100 mgz? 640 Mapping on is 1:22 (very close) and 640 maping off is 0:20!!! Why do you think that is? HD id Western Digital 1.6 although 3ds is running off of an older conner 1gig. Win95. Non-edo ram. Any ideas? Timothy NVision Inc. & Digibotics
#195695From: CCOct 17, 1995 12:07 AM
Hi Tim, 12 seconds difference is ALOT in 3ds and rendering in general. I believe my mapping off was actually set to 800 x 600. anyway, your scores are very good, as they should be with SM p55, good boards, we sell many, as well as the ASUS. Cameron
#194993From: Jim Perkins,Oct 11, 1995 10:25 PM
Did you forget to plug it in?? <VBG> Jim…. ComputerWizards/Texas/Blazing on Win95 :)>
#192899From: Stephen C. LevySep 27, 1995 6:34 PM
Thanx again Rick; I'm sure the pipelined burst cache helps, too, but that 60NS RAM sure don't hurt! As of this writing, you've got a P100 that runs with the 120s! (Haven't gotten any numbers from a 133 yet) Have you got some kind of graphic accelerator card in that thing? SCL
#192923From: Rick MillerSep 27, 1995 10:28 PM
Stephen, >>Have you got some kind of graphic accelerator card in that thing?<< I'm using the Hercules Terminator w/4mb of memory(964 chip), don't think that's going to help with rendering. I'm not sure if it was you that mentioned Liquid Speed, which I do have, but shouldn't make any difference when it comes to rendering. If it does I'm sure Vibrant would like to know about it. Regards…………Rick – Technical Animations
#192930From: Stephen C. LevySep 28, 1995 12:42 AM
You're right, I was talking about a co-processor-type accelerator, not a video "accelerator" card. If those had anything to do with rendering speed, I'm sure EVERYBODY would like to hear about that!!! Liquid Speed doesn't help rendering, either, in my experience, as I've run the same machine without, then with, and although it did help screen redraws (somewhat) it didn't appear to have any effect on rendering times. Maybe somebody did accidentally drop a 120 into the 100s box, and you lucked out! Thanx again for all your trouble. SCL
#193109From: Harley HugginsSep 29, 1995 4:45 AM
More benchmarks: P133 32MB RAM 512k CHEVY.3DS All defaults, no display: 640×480 1:20 1024×768 2:43 HH
#193127From: Rick MillerSep 29, 1995 8:37 AM
Harley, Those times sure got me beat<G>. I assume by "All defaults" you mean that you used Metal shading and Mapping was on? Regards…………Rick – Technical Animations
#193183From: Harley HugginsSep 29, 1995 2:43 PM
Rick, >> I assume by "All defaults" you mean that you used Metal shading and >>Mapping was on? Yup. Mapping and metal shading were on. I'm happy! 😉
#193190From: Stephen C. LevySep 29, 1995 3:21 PM
Hey, Harley! That's a pretty quick box you got there! You said you got it from Micron? Is it a Millenium? One of the reasons I got myself involved in this whole benchmark thing is that I'm in the market to replace my DX2/66 (finally!). Have you looked under the hood yet? I'm curious if there's enough room for a PVR. (It needs an unobstructed, full-length PCI slot.) Any info you can provide (like who your rep was) would be a help. Thanx, SCL
#193311From: Rick MillerSep 30, 1995 3:49 PM
Stephen, >>Any info you can provide (like who your rep was) would be a help.<< Try going to the PC HARDWARE forum, Micron had two reps there that were very sharp and friendly. Micron was also looking to open their own forum, but I don't know if it ever happened. When I was looking at Micron neither their Mellennium or their standard Pentium would handle 2 ISA slots or 2 PCI full length slots, but things may have changed by now. I was looking at Micron very strongly, but decided to go with MIND COMPUTER CONSULTANTS because the SuperMicro motherboard had 4 ISA and 4 PCI slots with none shared. Out of the 8 slots I have 3 ISA and 3 PCI full length slots. I just deleted all the messges concerning the Micron, but I still have some of the printouts if you would like to have them. Let me know. Regards………..Rick – Technical Animations
#193430From: Stephen C. LevyOct 1, 1995 5:27 PM
Rick, Thanx for the info. Where is Mind Computer Consultants? A phone, e-mail address or CIS number would help. Send via e-mail (my nickel) if you don't want to post this on the forum (guidelines?). Thanx in advance, SCL
#193518From: Rick MillerOct 2, 1995 11:02 AM
Stephen, >>Thanx for the info. Where is Mind Computer Consultants? A phone, e-mail address or CIS number would help. Send via e-mail (my nickel) if you don't want to post this on the forum (guidelines?).<< I don't think there are any rules against giving out vendor names and contact info on this forum. Contact Mark DeMazza at MIND COMPUTER CONSULTANTS (203) 669-0895 or CIS# 71203,170. I liked Mark because he never pressures you to place an order, he just answers your questions and lets you make up your own mind. Regards………….Rick – Technical Animations
#193411From: Harley HugginsOct 1, 1995 2:28 PM
Stephen, No, its not a Micron. I went with a local company and had them build it to my specs. If you want to know all the details and can send them to you. I bought it with the possibility of getting a PVR in the (probably distant) future. Harley
#193429From: Stephen C. LevyOct 1, 1995 5:27 PM
Thanx, Harley, I'd appreciate any info you can provide. Is yours that SuperMicro mobo, too? It seems to be (one of) the hot setups. What do you consider local? (I'm in SoCal.) Thanx in advance, SCL
#193462From: wayne r. tylerOct 2, 1995 12:01 AM
Harley, I would be interested in the specs you used to build your system. There is a local firm here who could probably do the job if I knew what to tell them. I have been trying to keep up with all the hardware info, but am not that saavy on the technical side and probably have missed something. Thanks. regards, wayne
#193243From: John DollusSep 29, 1995 10:16 PM
Re: Triton chipset. I am surprised that I haven't seen any discussion on EDO ram when discussing system speeds. The Micron Millennia Plus ships with EDO ram. In several tests that I have seen, EDO equiped machines run quite a bit faster than the same system with standard ram. By the way, I have been running a Micron 90 system w/32 MB for several months and have found it to be a fine system. Note: I have only one full length PCI slot that is not being blocked by the CPU.
#193273From: Stephen C. LevySep 30, 1995 3:46 AM
John, Actually, there was a short exchange on EDO RAM somewhere in this twisted, convoluted thread. It turns out that EDO RAM ain't what it's been cracked up to be… Pipelined-Burst Cache is the real improvement in speed. Evidently, if you have pipeline cache and substitute EDO RAM for ordinary RAM, the benefit is barely more than the margin of error in the tests themselves, like 1 to 3%. That single full-length PCI slot — is it being used? Do you have a total of 4 — 3 PCI only and 1 PCI/ISA? I'm concerned because I'm considering ordering a Millenium and I want to put a PVR in it… Thanx, SCL
#193632From: John DollusOct 2, 1995 8:56 PM
Stephen, Re: Micron My system is based on the Powerstation 90. I have 2 PCI, 1 PCI/ISA and 4 ISA slots. 1 full length is definitely open, 1 is questionable (probably wouldn't risk it) and 1 is totally obscured. An important note if you have full length ISA cards: If you populate all six banks of RAM, you will decrease your available full length ISA slots by 1 or 2 depending on the RAM type {double sided or single sided). I would spend the extra $100.00 on the tower case, also. I ended up scraping the baby-AT case. Depending on which side of the PVR the capture card fits on, I may need to get a new motherboard for my new case…. I have been waiting for two weeks for the PVR and TBC add-on to arrive. I will keep you posted. Disclaimer: The Millenia is a different motherboard design and, as such, will have a different configuration.
#193687From: Stephen C. LevyOct 3, 1995 1:49 AM
John, Thanx for the tips. This stuff just keeps getting more and more complicated, but since it also keeps getting faster and better, I'm not complaining! <g> SCL
#193309From: Rick MillerSep 30, 1995 3:21 PM
John, >>I am surprised that I haven't seen any discussion on EDO ram when discussing system speeds. The Micron Millennia Plus ships with EDO ram. In several tests that I have seen, EDO equiped machines run quite a bit faster than the same system with standard ram.<< Like most things in life, there are pro and cons to most everything. I would venture to say that EDO ram is good in some applications and no benefit in others. If you have it though you can't go wrong. When I bought mine system in July, EDO ram was only available from the major companies, therefore, when I went to MIND COMPUTER CONSULTANTS, Mark could not get it. >>By the way, I have been running a Micron 90 system w/32 MB for several months and have found it to be a fine system. Note: I have only one full length PCI slot that is not being blocked by the CPU.<< When I bought mine system it was between Micron and MIND COMPUTERS. Since I couldn't get enough full length slots in the Micron and possible second source components that I couldn't control I went with MIND COMPUTERS. Regards…………Rick – Technical Animations
#193025From: John N. JordanSep 28, 1995 5:07 PM
Rick, Looking at the latest numbers you've posted, they make sense. (only a few seconds faster than mine) If you have a Triton chipset, that'd be a big improvement over mine, as well as your inline cache vs. my sram cache. Then add 60ns ram, and they all add up to faster rendering. Now why our systems beat a couple P120's posted, that's a bigger question. JNJ
#193056From: Rick MillerSep 28, 1995 9:16 PM
John, I do have the Triton chipset, I heard that it is faster than the Neptune. But next week it will be the Super Triton II and time goes on<G>. I think the P100 talks outside the chip at 33MHz while the P120 talks at 30MHz. That might explain why the P100 are almost as fast in some situations. If I was to upgrade the CPU, then I would go to the P133. Regards………..Rick – Technical Animations
#193153From: John N. JordanSep 29, 1995 12:05 PM
Rick, Yes, the Triton is faster, but doesn't support dual proc's. (that I know of). Yes, 33mhz is better than 30mhz in bus speed. But I'm still suprised. 🙂 JNJ
#192766From: Bob KohlSep 27, 1995 1:54 AM
More numbers Dell XPS 90 P-90 16Mb no EMM386 ram all default settings, no display metal,mapping on, pixel 1.1 etc… 640×480 1:50(110 seconds) swap 406K. Generic DX4-100, 48Mb ram, no EMM386, all default settings no display, metal,mapping on, pixel 1.1 etc… 640×480 3:53 (233 seconds) no swap. Bob Kohl Cedille inc. -Bob Kohl
#193855From: Peter RichardsOct 3, 1995 7:49 PM
On my machines Chevy. Times Machine 5.10 DX2-66 1.39 Dec Pentium 90 1.51 No-name Pentium 90 2.05 ALR Pentium 66 -Peter
#193873From: John StetzerOct 3, 1995 9:29 PM
Oops, placed these in the wrong thread initially… For the render speed list: Intel 133 (Triton chipset), 70 ns RAM (non-EDO) Chevy.3ds 640*480, 1.1 AA, Shading Limit Metal No Display mapping off: 51 seconds mapping on: 1 minute 11 seconds Display mapping off: 51 seconds mapping on: 1 minute 10 seconds John Stetzer JWS
#193856From: Peter RichardsOct 3, 1995 7:50 PM
The times I gave you were for 640x480x24 bit. All machines had 32MB Ram. Pentium 90's best effort was 1min39s on a DEC Celebris, other pentium 90's were anywhere from 1.50 to 2.30