#24x .FLC
26 messages in this thread
Eli,
You can only get 16 mil. colors at 640×480. Set your RDPADI for 640×480
for 16 mil. I think only Vibrant's driver supports this at present.
Daimond has not released the Panacea's drivers yet. You may be able to get
the drivers direct from Panacea. The one I got with the card supported
640×480 at 32,768 colors. I could make mine work (may be old driver). The
vibrant driver works for still rendering at 640×480 16 mil. the only
resolution that works for animations is 320×200 however. Vibrant tells me
it's because 3DS does not use the ADI drivers for viewing animations but
rathers uses internal drivers. It appears that we will have to wait for 3DS
to change or change boards to get hi-color at present.
I don't think DEFAULT-DISPLAY is valid for 2.0 the new entry is
MAIN-DISPLAY.
Mark,
Everything you've said is correct…except Diamond HAS released Panacea
drivers for the 24x. You get them with the board! Only problem is… they
don't work and the only way you're going to know this is by spending a lot
of wasted time trying to get 'em working…or have someone tell you they're
never gonna work. Actually, I found out both ways! Spent lotsa time and
was told BY PANACEA!
And you're right…DEFAULT-DISPLAY isn't in 2.0…so why do BOTH the
Diamond 24x and PANACEA manuals refer to it?! What I think happened is
these guys had working drivers for Release 1, assumed they'd work for 2.0
and proceeded to ship them without knowing for sure. Well..uh…
oops…they don't. Should've called Vibrant!
Eli.
Eli.
I couldn't get the Panacea drivers I got with my board to work. Be
advised that the Vibrant drivers will only work for renedering at 640×480
and 16 mil colors. You cannot animate at anything greater than 320×200 on
the 24x at present. There is one nice feature that I don't think any other
drivers support. I run a Rasterex Board for ACAD and use the Diamond board
for VGA pass through. With the Vibrant driver I can set up my Rasterx Board
to be my main display and draw at 1280×1024. The rendering part of the
driver allows me to use the Diamond board for the rendering and the
materials editor. I think that I might be able to set it up where I could
have a choice of rendering from 320×200 to 1280×1024 by setting the RDPADI
to the Diamond board and the RCPADI to the Rasterex.
If you come up with something that works with the 24x let me know. I
think that I'm gonna unload this board and get something with a Tseng 4000
and HiColor support.
Good Luck, Mark P.
Mark.
The only thing that works is to select VESA from DLDSETUP. Of course,
you're only going to get 256 colors, and at that, my Materials Editor
display only works partially. It's very strange… when I launch into ME,
it puts up a display with just Red and Green…it's as if the Blue gun
isn't firing. However, I can correct this by Viewing a file… any kind of
file…then the correct screen works from that point on.
As for coming up with something that works for the 24x…neither you nor I
have control over that. It's up to Panacea, and Diamond, to figure out
what works and put it into the hands of 24x owners. Until then, we wait…
and wait… and wait… or buy something else!!!
I guess there's one advantage to buying an inexpensive board like the
24x… you don't feel too bad if you have to dump it! Looks like that may
be an idea who's time has come…
Eli.
Eli,
Don't take this wrong. I believe some of the problem is with ADESK
also. The Vibrant drivers work great for the 24x at 16 mil. Once again the
you cannot animate at greater than 320×200 though. Vibrant tells me that
either Diamond or ADESK will have to make revisions to make the card work
with 3DS. The card is very impressive running ACAD BTW.
I still hold with you that this deficiency should have been discovered
way before the cards where eve shipped. It's also obvious that the card
does not come with the proper drivers as advertised.
Mark P.
Thanks for your comments Mark.
The changes made to the driver and the disabling of rendering are outlined
in the README file in the directory extracted from our disk. This function
has since been re-enabled by Panacea in a subsequent Panacea release and is
available to any 3D Studio user experiencing problems by letting us know.
-Jeff
Jeff,
I just want a simple yes or no. Is there a driver that will produce a
640×480 16 million color .flc animation file that will run correctly. I
have said from the beginning that the board renders still images fine.
Thanks,
Mark P.
Sorry Mark, I can't answer if it does or not. I have not personally tried
to animate at 640×480 24-bit. Is there an existing file that you are aware
of that I could render to a .fl? and give it a try at to expedite this?
-Jeff
Jeff,
Reneder any of the animations in the 3DS sample files or just try to play
back one of the FLC files on the includes CD.
Mark P.
FLC and FLI files are inherently limited to 256 colors.
Phil,
Please explain further. I thought is would use the best match of 256
colors for each frame of the animation and not be limited to a total of 256
colors. I still don't think colors have anything to do with the 24X not
being able to corectly play back an animation at 640×480.
Mark P.
I haven't really been following this thread, but I'll plunge ahead anyway.
Flics are limited to an 8-bit display, which means that any frame can
display a total of 256 colors. Each frame can have a different palette of
256 colors, however. Practically, you can't have distinctly different
palettes for each frame because it will cause the display to flicker when
you play the flic. Resolution and bit depth are not necessarily related.
However, you need more RAM to display the same bit depths at a higher
resolution. Some boards can display 8-bits of 256 colors at 640×480, for
example, but don't have enough RAM to display the same at 800×600.
– Jack
Jack,
I understand all that. The problem is that the Diamond 24x does not run
animations at anything greater than 320×200 correctly. Vibrant Graphics
has told me that the problem is from 3DS by-passing the ADI drivers when
running flics. They tell me that 3DS does not support whatever the number
is of the Western Digital chip on the board.
Mark P.
Hi Mark.
If I'm reading you correctly, you want to play back a 24 bit per pixel FLC?
That won't work since both the FLI and FLC file formats are limited to 8
bits per pixel (256 colors). Additionally, to play back a FLC file, you
need a higher resolution AAPLAYER than the one that plays FLIs (that's the
basic difference between the two file formats). Once you have a
higher-resolution player, you also need an appropriate player video driver
(I recommend using VESA support – it's free).
If this is the same question you asked over in the ACAD Forum, I'm sorry
for not realizing the answer back there – I was reading it as FLI not FLC.
Hope this helps.
Jake
Jake,
The 24x will not play back FLC at 640×480 inside 3DS using VESA, Your
drivers or Vibrants drivers. I'm told this is a problem with the Western
Digital Chip and 3DS. I've tried all kinds of setup's and I can't make it
work Tseng 4000 works fine.
Regards -Mark P.
I just installed the SpeedStar 24X in my computer (replaced a Stealth VRam
board) and I have not had much luck with it.
I've stripped CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT and nothing changed. The problems
are similar in both 3DS and Windows. The computer reboots whenever the
board switches to anything beyond standard VGA.
I've run the VDIAG thing and everything went fine.
The computer is an Everex Step 486/33 with 16M. Every single slot is used
by something else. I'm not willing to start taking boards out to check for
incopatibilities. Every other video board I have works just fine with this
configuration.
It took me a while to get the Stealth fine tuned. Bad disk, bad drivers,
ever busy BBS numbers, tech support people that who had no idea what I was
talking about, etc.
I have no intention whatsoever taking the same time and efort to get this
board to work.
Could you please tell me what is going on?
B.T.W. I run Autocad R12, 3DS V2.0 and Windows 3.1.
How about that. A question and an answer (well, not exaclty) before you had
a chance of catching up your breath…
I found the "reboot" problem in Windows. Somebody (I mean by that, some
other application) installed a "device=monoumb2.386" in my system.ini. I
"grep'ed" all the hard disk looking for someone that made any refence to
that and I couldn't find "who did it". I did find what that is. It's there
to allow using 0B100h through 0B7FFh as high memory while running Windows.
Please note that, although I am running QEMM 6.12, I have all that area
excluded (B000-CFFF).
Apparently, your drivers don't like MONOUMB2.386. Great, what a nightmare.
DOS with its CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC's wasn't messy enough. Now we have a
SYSTEM.INI with a billion entries to have fun with.
Any how, Windows is up and running. Not so fast, the same problems I had
with the "old" drivers for stealth are here again with this board.
Just something to try out and check to see if it can be reproduced or
maybe, they've even be fixed by now and a new driver is coming up soon!
640x480x24 – Can't run AAWIN. Slooooooow.
800x600x16 – Fast but AAWIN doesn't like it either.
1024x768x8(sf) – Fast. GP when runing CakeWalk Professional "Staff"
Window. (Same exactly problem with Stealth. Got fixed
with 2.0 drivers.)
1264x1024x4 – Problems with windowed DOS boxes. PCTools' SI locks up.
Norton's SI writes all over the place (outside it's
window).
Interesting fireworks when switching from windowed to full
screen!
Glad to see you were able to find the source of the problem.
The MONOUMB file is added by Windows (or by the user) so it can use the
monochrome video page (B000-B7FF). This region is not used by VGA cards
(Stealth, 24X, etc), instead reserved for the addition of a monochrome
video card.
I have noted the problems you found and will have them looked into.
-Jeff
Gus,
My first suggestion would be to limit the variables in your system. What
other types of cards are in the system? Where are they located? What IRQs
are they using? What memory manager are you using? What excluded memory
regions are being added to its execution? What type of motherboard do you
have? Whose chipset does it use?
Please note that the above suggestions do not denote a video card
compatibility (these same questions could pertain to any VGA/SVGA card),
instead regarding system variables.
Let me know what you find.
-Jeff
Eli,
Your messages are quite hard to follow. Speaking for Diamond, your posts
and this thread have gone on since Friday evening after business hours have
closed. Since then you have determined that the drivers you have are BETA
(they're not, they're released), that Diamond has you "Beta-testing" these
drivers (you're not), and that you must lose your investment in this
product because you can't render to 24-bit with the SpeedStar 24X (you can
– see previous messages).
It is mid-workday on the following Monday. I have gone through this thread
and have answered on behalf of Diamond in your situation. My solution is
to send you an updated disk that will allow you to render in the color
depth of choice. I have personally used the 24X with this driver under 3D
Studio 2.0 and rendered to 24-bit at 640×480 without any problems. Send me
your address and I'll send it to you at no charge.
I hope that this type of situation does not occur again and that all
aspects are taken into consideration before anyone jumps to conclusions.
This message is not written with any malice towards anyone and is intended
to help make everyone's day go just a bit smoother.
Respectfully,
-Jeff Orr
Product Marketing
Diamond Computer Systems, Inc.
Jeff,
Please reread Chris Edgington's [Panacea] msg of 10/10. In it he states
that the drivers are beta. And…with the exception of an agreement, 24x
owners are essentially beta testers – there are problems with the drivers
and users are reporting them. I'm unconvinced that the drivers furnished
with the board work as you contend, especially in light of your offer to
supply replacements and Panacea's upcoming release of Turbo-DLD.
Attempting to deflect sometimes hard and tough criticism by labeling it as
jumping to conclusions or exhibiting malice is disappointing and
irrelevant. I can appreciate that the market for these types of products
is fierce. But along with the rewards for beating out a competitor may
come the reality that all the pieces don't work. If Diamond, Panacea, and
whoever else, could muster as much effort into fixing the problems in a
timely manner, then I think everyone would be satisfied.
Eli.
Eli,
I misunderstood what Diamond was actually shipping with the board.
Beating out a competitor sometimes means shipping a product that has NOT
been fully tested. We at Panacea are working practically 'round the
clock
fixing problems with and polishing off TurboDLD. When it is finally
released, users won't have to deal with the usual problems associated
with
a product that has been rushed to market. If you are unhappy with
Panacea, then I told you how you could return the product that you
purchased. Otherwise, wait a few more weeks and you will have a driver
that works.
-Chris
Chris,
I was one of the early purchasers of the 24x. The firmware reports v1.01
of the bios and the driver disk is v1.00. Realizing that I needed to
update drivers and acting on the advice of others, I ordered the latest
available drivers from Panacea – I received DLD386VGA v1.24. Another
reason why I ordered them from Panacea was because I was unable to get a
clear answer from Diamond about the upgrade path, if any, for Panacea
drivers.
I will ease off further criticism since this situation now seems to have
the attention of Diamond, Panacea and others. Let me point out, though,
that if _you're_ confused about which version is shipping with the board,
then so am I. Do Panacea and Diamond use the same version numbers? The
Diamond rep referred to v2.02 claiming that's the one I'm using. As far as
I know, the only v2.xx product involved is 3D Studio, which I'd like to get
working with this video setup.
Eli.
Eli,
While Chris is a Panacea employee, he has no way of knowing what the whole
company is doing any at given time (that's more my job).
So, let me clarify a few points:
1) Diamond is NOT shipping beta TurboDLD software. They are shipping a 24X
specific version of our released DLD386 software. This custom driver
supports rendering at 16 and 24 bit resolutions. Chris was working on
TurboDLD and so was not aware that another of our programmers had done this
work.
2) The reason you had problems with our commercial software in the higher
resolution modes of your 24X was because our release software does not
currently fully support the 24X – partially because Diamond has already
been given software to provide the support with, and partially because we
are working hard on TurboDLD, which will provide full support for the 24X,
including support for 16 and 24 bits in the display modes of AutoCAd and
3DS (although it doesn't do much for the latter in display mode, only in
render mode).
3) Chris made an offer that I firmly back him up on, namely you may return
the Panacea software you purchased for a full refund. Send the software it
to my attention with a copy of your receipt, and I will make sure you get
an immediate refund – including all your shipping expenses. All of us at
Panacea want to make sure our customer are happy with our software, whether
they purchased it from us or got it from an OEM of ours. You can send it
to: Jake Richter, President, Panacea Inc., 24 Orchard View Drive,
Londonderry, NH 03053-3351.
4) Lastly, our documentation has not been updated for use with 3DS 2.0.
This will be fixed when we ship TurboDLD.
I hope this resolves your concerns with using both Panacea and Diamond
products. If not, please feel free to call me on my nickel at 800-729-7420.
I may not be immediately available, and if that's the case,
I will call you as soon as I get your message.
Jake Richter
Founder & President, Panacea Inc.
Jake,
Thanks for your reply. Your clarification of key issues in this situation
is greatly appreciated.
Before exercising your return policy, would you please describe how to
obtain the TurboDLD drivers. Specifically, (1) can owners of the 24x board
obtain them as an upgrade to the drivers furnished by Diamond, and (2) can
licensees of DLD386 get them as a free/low-cost upgrade?
Thanks, Eli.
If you want a TurboDLDDeluxe that works only on the 24X, you can get such a
beast free from Diamond shortly after our commercial release.
If you want a TurboDLDDeluxe that works on virtually any graphics adapter,
you can upgrade your OEM version (i.e. the one that came with the 24X or
other licensed products) for $99.
If you have DLD386-xxx purchased on or after Nov. 1, 1991, you can get a
free update to TurboDLDClassic or a $49 update to TurboDLDDeluxe with dated
proof of purchase. If purchased before Nov 1, 1991, it would be $49 and $99
respectively. If you already owned DLD386Deluxe-xxx then it would be a free
update if purchased on or after Nov. 1, 1991 or $49 otherwise for
TurboDLDDeluxe.
I know that's kind of long winded, but that's the scoop.
Jake