#Removable disk & WB3.1
17 messages in this thread
Now that I have installed WB3.1, I can't seem to format Bernoulli 44 MB
removable disks. Under WB2.04 it was not problem at all. I just did a
partitioning with the HD Tools, did a low level format, saved the information
to the disk and after leaving the HDTools, the disk icon would appear on the
Workbench and I would high level format it from the Workbench.
Now I go through the same procedure and leave HDTools, but no icon appears on
the Workbench. If I go in and use the Format Tool it shows that the Bernoulli
is there. However, if I highlite it and ask to format it, the format fails
with the statement that no disk is in the drive. Since this system does
recognize previously formated drives (it just won't format new ones), I have
even gone back and used the old HDTools and put back the old fastfilesystem,
thinking that at least I could get it to act like one of my old formated disks.
This didn't work either.
I know that people have been using Syquest 270 (under WB3.1 ?) and they have
been working. What procedure do they use? Or is someone have success
formating a Bernoulli under WB3.1.
Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Norm
Norm,
I can't tell you anything about a Bernoulli under WB3.1 since I haven't
played with one, but I do use the 270 SyQuest without problem on my
A3000's built-in SCSI under WB3.1. There are no secret or special
incantations required to get the SyQuest to function. Your efforts sound
very similar to what I do:
1. Use HDToolBox to write the drive/partition specific parameters to the
RDB. Don't forget to save the changes!
2. Wait a few seconds to make sure Mr. SCSI has fully completed his job.
3. Three finger salute (reboot) Ms. Ami. If the RDB on the Bernoulli is
up to snuf, you should see your default disk icon on the screen with ???
in the name.
4. You can now select the disk icon and initiate a format.
Hope this helps…
EdV
EdV:
Thanks for the reply. I decided to try it one more time before writing back to
you and this time the %$#@*&% thing worked as given and the drive icon showed
up on the Workbench. I just can't figure it out. I tried it several different
ways before including the way I did it tonight and nothing worked. Must be the
phase of the moon! However, after get the drive ion up, I clicked on it and
asked to format the disk which it started to do. It runs right along until the
100% on the bar graph at that point it go to initialize the disk and then it
gets format failure: error 254. What is error 254?
However, this is not all the story. If I put in an old disk and check it with
the HDTools and then take it out and put in a clean (new) disk and call it just
the same as before with all the same parameters, then the disk will show up on
the Workbench and will format and initialize. There is some place that new
information is not being written that does not have to do with the info on the
cartridge disk itself. There is some place something like a mountlist where
new names and partitions are not being written. But the info there can be used
for a new cartridge. I would like to know what is not being changed and why.
Regards,
Norm
PS. One problem is the new WB3.1 manuals don't give any info on the HDTools,
it refers you to the "Amiga Hard Drive User's Guide". …. where does one get
this Guide?
Norman,
The Mountlist stuff is for old (OS versions. All that stuff is now saved
in the Rigid Disk Block in the harddrive itself. The Harddrive manual
comes with the original manual set of the 3000 and 4000. What parameters
are you entering in the HDToolBox partitioning requester (that is, what
are you changing?) Does the HDToolBox reckognize your Bernoulie as such?
It should have an entry in the main requester.
Also, although I don't think the low level format is doing anything, you
should never do it except as a last resort when you have a disk that's
really in bad shape. I think most drives ignore it. If you did do a
successful low level format (they take a while), you would have to
partition your drive again, as the RDB would be cleared.
This works if you are using a C= controller, i.e. a 3000 or 4000 internal
SCSI or IDE. If you have a third-party controller you may need to use
their own disk partitioning software. Can you give some more info on your
hardware setup?
DJ
On AP from Queens, the thrill and excitement of the Big Apple
Where a little paranoia is always a healthy attitude …
DJ:
The HDTools recognizes the Bernoulli drive all right and even gives the correct
parameters, but with WB3.1 the FastFileSystem that was there before is gone and
the only thing comes close to working is the CrossDOSFileSystem. However, the
CrossDOSFileSystem wants to setup the Bernoulli differently using less blocks
per cylinder and more cylinders. So I have to take the old disk data and use
it with the new file system to get any where at all. I thought that there was
not supposed to be a normal MountList any more but it certainly seems like the
system is recording something in some place other that the harddisk itself.
Thanks, at least I know what a RDB means now…I still believe there is a Rigid
MountList somewhere or a Rigid Demon Bad-guy doing me in. I do have a standard
C= controller and I do repartition after the low-level format (which really
does take awhile). However, there seems to be a conflict between the old FFS
and the new CrossDOS system.
Of course for WB3.1 the harddisk guide that came with my A3000 back in the
WB2.0 days is very out of date and wasn't all that complete anyway. The
official Amiga Hardware Manual that you can get along with the ROM Kernal
Manuals doesn't include the harddisk, so it is of no value for this problem. I
wish there was some way to get to the nitty-gritty of this process.
Thanks for the additional info, regards,
Norm
Actually, I haven't used CrossDOS on a hard drive. How are you doing this
(for my own edification)? Maybe I can try to reproduce your symptoms on
my 3270. It's possible you are getting some interaction between the two
file systems.
DJ
On AP from Queens, the thrill and excitement of the Big Apple
Where a little paranoia is always a healthy attitude …
DJ:
When you select the advanced options in the partitioning window, you can
replace or update the filesystem. As the L:fastfilesystem no longer existed in
the L: directory, the only thing that was there was the CrossDOSfilesystem. I
loaded it. Also when I went back to my WB2.04 disks and copied the
L:fastfilesystem to L: and loaded it, it didn't work. What do you load when
it asks for the filesystem?
I hope you understand what I am talking about….I would have to look up which
advanced option to click on if you don't understand. I just don't have my
Amiga here or I would look.
Regards,
Norm
Norm, I'm perplexed! I know exactly what you're talking about, but when I
dig through the add/update file system , it shows l:FastFileSystem. I
indeed have a FFS in my L: directory, and it's version 40.1. Check your
disks, it's got to be in there.
DJ
On AP from Queens, the thrill and excitement of the Big Apple
Where a little paranoia is always a healthy attitude …
DJ:
Maybe this is the problem. I will look back through the install disks of
WB3.1….perhaps I should reload WB3.1. Something might of happened and the
FastFileSystem did not copy. I'll check it out. This might clean up the whole
formatting of Bernoulli's problem. I'll let you know if I can unperplex you.
Regards,
Norm
Norm,
You're really making this difficult aren't you <grin>? FastFileSystem
is embedded in your kickstart ROMs! You don't need it in your l:
directory and the OS3.1 install doesn't put one there (at least on my
install). You do not want to `Add/Update…' but rather `Change…' your
file system. On this screen, select "Standard File System" and check the
Fast File System gadget! This will make your disk AmigaDOS usable. If
you're trying to make your disk MSDOS usable (CrossDOSfilesystem), then I
wish you much luck if you do not have the commercial CrossDOS package.
EdV
EdV:
If what you say is true, you are right, I am making it too hard. However, when
I go to change the filesystem, a little window pops up with [
l:fastfilesystem]. Now maybe this is left over from 2.04, but it is even
showing up on a new blank cartridge. I don't know where it is getting this
from then. I have to just find a little more time to sort things out. I will
take your information to heart and see if it helps explain what is going on.
I'll let you know if I am just fouling up and being stupid.
Regards,
Norm
Norm,
"Fouling up and being stupid" is my middle name <big grin>! It's how I
learn things – it's not the easy way but it's usually effective and I
remember longer.
EdV
Ed, when it comes to technology, I've found that having everything go
wrong is the ONLY way to learn. The trick is to make it happen when
nobody's looking and WAY before anybody's expecting anything <g>.
DJ
On AP from Queens, the thrill and excitement of the Big Apple
Where a little paranoia is always a healthy attitude …
Ed, MY 3.1 installed a FastFileSystem, rev 40.1. And MY 3.1 Install disk
has an L directory with a FastFileSystem in it. Better check your
disks!<G>
DJ
On AP from Queens, the thrill and excitement of the Big Apple
Where a little paranoia is always a healthy attitude …
DJ,
Interesting that your install put FastFileSystem in your l: directory.
I am very certain my install did not because I installed to a brand new
hard disk and it's not there. Since the l:FastFileSystem version is
identical to that in the ROM (Kickstart 40.68), I see no advantage to
having that file take up hard disk space <grin>.
Out of curiosity, I just checked my OS3.1 install disk and it does have
the l:FastFileSystem with the same version [40.1 (02/15/93)] on it, but
like I mentioned earlier, the `installer' did not copy it to my hard
disk's l: directory. Just to make this even more interesting, I checked
my installer script version and it is 40.17 (08/13/93) — what's yours?
EdV
My install script is also 40.17. Most interesting. Maybe because I had a
FFS in L: when the install occured? What DOES your HDToolbox say about
the path for your file system?
DJ
On AP from Queens, the thrill and excitement of the Big Apple
Where a little paranoia is always a healthy attitude …
Norm,
Ouch! This doesn't sound too good and I'm not sure I can help you,
especially since I'm not totally sure I am interpreting your words
correctly <grin>! Somewhere near 4096 different images have crossed my
mind about what you may be doing and what could be wrong. I think it
would be easier if I just explained how and why I do things and let you
work from that.
First, if you are going to use removeable media, make darn sure all
your cartridges are "prepped" with identical layout geometry (partition
sizes – start/end cylinders; file system; masks; etc.). I always do this
cartridge prepping after I eject any cartridge from the drive and warm
reboot (three finger salute) so that any residual RDB info is flushed from
the system. After the system reboots, I insert a cart and let it spin up.
You should not see any icons on your screen from this procedure because
the RDB is only read at startup. If icons do appear, then you have a
mountlist entry somewhere in your system which I would encourage you to
disable – let the RDB do its job! Once the cart has spun up, its time to
use HDToolBox's magic. Once you've selected the appropriate SCSI
device/address for your Bernoulli, you can use `Change Drive Type' to make
sure the major factors of your drive's geometry are consistently setup
(just select the Bernoulli entry you must have previously created). This
will establish the drives high and low cyclinders, mask values, file
system type, etc. What it doesn't do however, is set up your partitions,
which you must set up through the `Partition Drive' option. I recommend
that you set up the entire drive as a single partition since this way you
can avoid the headaches of not matching up partition end/start cylinders
between carts!
Second, if you boot your system with different carts inserted at any
particular time, make darn sure all your carts have a RDB on them. There
are not too many things more fun than trying to figure out what happened
to all that important data you put on a cart when your system cold boots
and you don't get a disk icon on the workbench! The way to make sure sure
you save a RDB on a prepped cart, is immediately after you do the items I
outlined above to create identical drive geometry, use the `Save Changes
to Drive' option before quiting HDToolBox. Now for the ultimate test of
your handy work: wait a few seconds after quiting HDToolBox and perform
the three finger salute. Your system should reboot and a new disk icon
should be on your Workbench which you can now perform the AmigaDOS format
on!
If I understand some of the problems you reported correctly, it sounds
like you are suffering from problems the above should solve: missing RDBs
and improper drive geometry between carts.
I don't know what error 254 is — can't find it in any documentation I
have 🙁
You're right, I didn't receive an "Amiga Hard Drive" booklet with my
OS3.1 upgrade either! Of course, I'm not too concerned since I've had
lots of practice with OS2.1, which did include the hard drive booklet
<grin>. Perhaps you can find an Amigain or Amiga User Group close to you
that will give you an opportunity to look at the booklet…
EdV