#Inks and tools Ani Pro
17 messages in this thread
Any folks out there with experience making Ani Pro Inks?
If so any words of advice – helpful hints?
and if you are a user – are there any Inks you wish you had?
Not sure if I'm going to try to dig into this – but can't wait much longer for
Pro improvements
Reading about Animator Studio
– It is sounding like AutoDesk has decided to abandon Ani Pro and FLC
development tools
[of course Autodesk doesn't talk about future products ]
dave
David,
We will not abandon the FLC format. Animator Studio was developed as a result
of customer input and customer changes. While the FLC format is really only
8-bit, it is still very useful-especially to game developers. Autodesk will
continue to ship Animator Pro even after Animator Studio ships. Remember, AAPro
and AAStudio are complementary.
Jeremy
Jeremy
Thanks for message – I don't mean to sound grumpy- and I'm not interested
getting into a major contraversy over this- or flame autodesk
BUT
The lack of complete & total support for 8 bit FLCs doesn't give me any
confidence that 24 bit will be the answer.
I'm not new at this
I know AutoDesk – since AutoCAD rel 1.2
done Auto SHADE – made. MOVs
used funky Auto LISP routines to move blocks
I've had Ani, PRO & 3dS since they came out.
I've spent a bundle on AutoDesk
I teach animation.
I write some code.
I'm tring to make a living at this. it's 4:am and I've been trying to get a
'toon done in Pro
and right now I could care less about Animator Studio
Simply – the promise of "low cost quality animation" hasn't been fufilled yet.
Desk top presentation or ouput to video. 2D or 3D. at any resolution
you can not output quality 8 bit to tape quickly (as in realtime) and
inexpensivly (in my book that's less than $5k – ie more money you have to
spend after you get the software – cards cables decks ram special drives etc)
oh, you can almost do it – some of the time but stuff like palette
flash or repaint lines and ram limits muck things up
or slowly grind a deck into dust a frame at a time
the solution aint there!
and try to make a distributable desk top presentation!
the average pc user can't get the players loaded & functional, much
less have it play a script.
[where does AutoDesk get their demo disks made ? this is a
rehtorical question – I know the answer]
part of the problem is lack of periferal hardware – video I/O, compatable decks
It has been Autodesk's policy that they don't get involved in hardware.
So what good does it do me if I can't deliver a product.
[one of the reasons I quit consulting with major Auto
companies is because I got tired of hearing about how doing the right thing was
counter to company policy. ]
Thats just BS any way – unless I missed something – the software still
needs hardware to run.
and mostly it is worhless unless there is some hardware I/O – like
video and tape and keyboards
sure hardware can be anoying – and configuration problems – but thats
part of the complete solution
The other guys seem to trying to deal with it – the MACs and
the SG & Amigas – maybe not always sucessfuly
When you are trying to make a living at this – you need to be able to get the
complete solution – not spend year trying to patch together a half assed system
out of parts that just sort of work.
{Required reading: "Chrossing The Chasm" by Geoffrey Moore – he address the
problem of moving from "break thru" to general markets }
Maybe the 24 bit stuff will play on PAR or something like it.
{it is sounds like from the messages here that PAR still has some problems, and
the other solutions con't seem much better}.
meanwhile release 1.3 came out when? '91 ?
and AutoDesk hasn't found any ways of improving it?
perhaps AutoDesk isn't lookng very hard.
since autodesk doesn't talk about future releases [unless it suits them
like with this Animator Studio thing and mythical R4]
I must assume that there will be no Pro 2.0
mores the pity.
I must contiue to muddle along using the tools available to me –
mending it the best I can with pocos and hard work.
I think there are a few thing that might be solved with POEs & INKs
So back to my original Question
– Does any body out there have any experience making INKs?
I would really appreciate any insites!
Thanks much
Dave Wright
>> Remember, AAPro and AAStudio are complementary.
Will "upgrading" to AAStudio void the license for AAPro? (The same way that
ACAD/windows did to ACAD/Dos?)
If that's the case, I'd prefer to see a "discount price" for AAPro owners
rather than an "upgrade". It would then allow us to use both.
– Dave
Boy, you guys should get some sleep!
Being both an end user and a dealer before working here, I understand what
you're saying. 24-bit is where the market is headed, however. And it is what
Autodesk users have asked for – for a very long time – out of AAPro. AAStudio
is our answer, but it is not a replacement.
Dave, I'll check into the upgrade path and get back to you. I'll be in Miami
and Toronto next week for the Autodesk seminar series, but I might be able to
get an answer before then. If not, I'll be back on Thursday…
Jeremy
Jeremy
/* It is sounding like AutoDesk has decided to abandon Ani Pro and FLC
development tools */
You probably won't get an official response about this type of thing, but to my
knowledge ANI will continue to be sold and the FLC format will be with us for
some time to come. 8-bit flics have their place much as 8-bit images do. They
are compact and clean enough for many purposes. Some folks thought .FLI files
would go away, but the fact that they run on any VGA card kept them around and
how old is Animator? 🙂
It is important to note also that (as I've said before) AStudio is not a
replacement for AniPro. The two products have minimal overlapping functions,
and together form the true latest generation of the product. If you have AniPro
already, plan on keeping it on your harddisk for some time.
I'd like to say (at this juncture) that I like what I'm seeing from the
Multimedia group… a fresh practical perspective on product creation. For over
a decade AutoCAD has been fixed and appended, replacing it's earlier versions.
The problem with this is that there is an incredible amount of overlap; the
majority of the "new" documentation is the same as the last release, the
majority of the executables are the same… there is an incredible amount of
redundancy. In response to the wishlist for Animator Pro, however, we see a new
product emerging which goes "beyond" Animator Pro with new features and new
customization/programming capabilities… minimal redundancy. Rather than
Animator Pro 2.0, we see Animator Studio 1.0, a complimentary product which
leaves the original's power alone. There are several benefits not obvious to
this new approach:
1> the user's productivity does not come to a standstill, being disoriented by
interface and new organization layout- productivity with the original continues
as always.
2> the customizations/programming investment are intact. the languages are left
alone to maintain current productivity whilst new programming needs are offered
"in tandem" by a co-product.
3> Documentation for the new product is focused on new features rather than the
majority of it recycling previous ones- this keeps the cost down and frees up
more of the price to dedicate to new documentation (which usually results in
more useful manuals)
4> Grey areas between product functionality are minimized. Users requiring the
functionality of AniPro versus AStudio need not buy AStudio to maintain AniPro
functionality. Likewise, users needing only AStudio's functions need not by
AniPro. In the past, it you wanted 2 out of 5 main capabilities, you had to by
the 5. This is an incredible waste. I've seen it with AutoCAD; users using less
than 25% of the program because that was the only way they could get the 25% of
the features at their disposal. If diverse features are broken up (like AutoCAD
Extensions: "need this? tack it on!" approach— TRUE MODULAR PROGRAMS) into
separate programs, you empower the user to be able to select which features are
necessary for his/her task. The philosophy is the same as the benefit to a
programmer… writing modular code gives more flexibility and control over
features and their capabilities. The same can be said for programs.
Imagine if AniPro were actually 10 different programs, or even one engine with
10 modules (like IPAS routines are for 3DStudio). Maybe not everyone needs
palette control, or a c-language interface like POCO, or tweening or tracing
capabilities. If these were purchasable in separate "modules", again like IPAS,
the user could be specific about what they needed and TOTALLY exploit their
investment since they are not forced to buy a HUGE package with features
irrelevant to the task. Maybe I don't need "GLOW" or "WATER" or "WAVE" IPAS…
if these had been a part of the main 3D Studio package, I'd be paying for them
but not using them. Autodesk's IPAS approach is analogous to the AniPro/AStudio
mentality. I get my money's worth as a consumer; 100% of my purchase gets used!
My hats off to the multimedia group for this practical future trend in modular
programs; they empower the user to fully exploit their investment in the
software, they reduce the redundancy and wastefulness of large engines, and
they make the response capabilities of a software company far less costly and
fast-trackable. Hooray! -dave
>> Rather than Animator Pro 2.0, we see Animator Studio 1.0, a complimentary
product which leaves the original's power alone. There are several benefits not
obvious to this new approach: <<
*** reasons 1-4 deleted ***
5> Autodesk can now sell us TWO programs instead of just one.
Call me cynical, but I was really looking forward to a new Animator Pro before
I leaped in and bought it. Now, If I want to get all the new features, I have
to buy TWO programs, one that's out of date, and one that's weak.
They tell you that if you need some features not in Animator Studio, you
can use animator pro. However, this completely negates the 24 bit capability of
Animator Studio, since Animator Pro is only an 8 bit program.
Bummer…
– Michael J Sheldon "Falcon", msheldon@crl.com
– When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is
not hereditary. Thomas Paine, Common Sense [1776]
Hi Michael
I think I agree mostly agree with you.
mind a question or two?
do you realy need 24 bit in Pro?
or is it the 8 bit palette hassles ?
like if colors were easier to make [or made themselves]
and no palette flash in playback
would 16 bit be ok?
do you do production work on Pro (make the toons)?
or use it for 3DS maps and such?
got to get some sleep –
alll the best
Dave
>>mind a question or two?<<
Nope, I'm always willing to add to the bandwidth <G>
>>do you realy need 24 bit in Pro?<<
Nope, but if I buy a 24 bit program, I expect to be able to use
it, and take advantage of the medium. If I have to take those 24 bit pictures
into an 8 bit program to get the effects I want, I've wasted a lot of time,
effort, and money.
>>or is it the 8 bit palette hassles ?
like if colors were easier to make [or made themselves]
and no palette flash in playback<<
I admit, I HATE the palette manipulation in Ani Pro.
I've used several paint programs, and ALL of them have better palette
manipulation, even Corel.
>>would 16 bit be ok?<<
Likely.
>>do you do production work on Pro (make the toons)?
or use it for 3DS maps and such?<<
I'd LOVE to do toons. Unfortunately, while I have a bit of
artistic ability, I don't have the creative spark it takes to produce truly
original works.
What I'm probably going to end up doing, is medical-oriented
animations (I'm in school [again] learning Ani Pro, and 3DS. I was a Navy medic
for 6 years, and will probably go back to practicing medicine for awhile.) I
have used Ani Pro to create animations independently, as well as in combination
with 3DS. Strangely, I have used 3DS to create objects to use as cells (ie: a
syringe), which I used in Ani Pro, instead of using Ani Pro to fine-tune 3DS
projects. Most of what I want to do is best suited to 2D animation.
>>got to get some sleep -<<
You too? <ggg>
– Michael J Sheldon "Falcon", msheldon@crl.com
– When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is
not hereditary. Thomas Paine, Common Sense [1776]
dave
please see my reply to jeremy.
I appreciate your enthusism
Me, I need some solid 8 bit solutions
and I'm tired and broke.
dr dave
/* please see my reply to jeremy. */
Did. Some of your complaints are very justified. When I saw AStudio "version
1", I was happy to not see it toted as "a replacement for ANI"… which it
isn't. I am hoping that ANI will continue to be updated. Many of your
frustrations are an excellent and unique upgrade path for ANI and would not be
redundant to AStudio's abilities. 8-bit is highly practical and system
economical… it has a strong future. ANI's future could deliver the goods on
8-bit futures if Autodesk MM recognizes this. IMHO.
/* I appreciate your enthusism. Me, I need some solid 8 bit solutions and I'm
tired and broke. */
I recently tried to get some information on Ink development and had very little
success. I guess if enough of us as this question (how to we get the resources
and references for Ink development), it will eventually have to be addressed.
🙂
Brian? Nik? Mark? Why is this information so difficult to obtain? It seems a
natural body of information which developers would need to know. We're just
trying to continue pushing the envelope. 🙂 -dave
<< inks.. >>
I take it that you'd like something more than the following..? Maybe something
that compiles?
File Info for INK.ZIP
Section: Autodesk Animator Contributor: 73172,1351 Size: 56180
Submitted: 5/25/94 Type: Binary Accesses: 38
Title: POCO inks
Keys: POCO INK C
Bits and pieces of code to help understand what it takes to make an ink in
Animator Pro
1.3. Will not compile as is. See ink1.txt for more details.
[download time at 2400 baud: 3 min]
/* I take it that you'd like something more than the following..? Maybe
something that compiles?
File Info for INK.ZIP */
Yes, I would. Very much. 🙂 I downloaded this example a while ago, but I think
you'll agree it doesn't say too much about it. Is there anything on current
inks in the program as well? There's probably a grey line between customization
and the actual program here… but it's confusing since the ANI executable and
the inks are separate file types. Ink would be the next logical progression of
development tools. -dave
<< . Is there anything on current inks in the program as well? >>
Sorry but no.. I know that Mark G. and Jim Kent want users to define their own
inks. I don't know where in the priority of things inks lie tho'.
/* Sorry but no.. I know that Mark G. and Jim Kent want users to define their
own inks. I don't know where in the priority of things inks lie tho'. */
Fair answer. This is one of those things hanging there (for developers) which
we could exploit the heck out of it we were capable. 🙂 -dave
Thanks Dave
yep – I think they need to hear both the good and the less so.
one thing I'm worried about – the hardware developers & 3rd party developers
follow as best they can
what they percieve to be the direction software.is going.
so if they think flcs are dying –
then why should they struggle to develop a decent flc
to tape solution?
and support utilities?
Interesting feed badk about inks – did you apply as a deveveloper ?
[not that you should have to – IMHO]
I pulled INK.zip but haven't gotten much from it.
more later – I got to get ready for the Pumpkinfest – Yep! mjor event
in town .
dave
/* one thing I'm worried about – the hardware developers & 3rd party
developers follow as best they can what they percieve to be the
direction software.is going.
so if they think flcs are dying –
then why should they struggle to develop a decent flc
to tape solution? */
Who can know the "mind of Autodesk".. 🙂 Most of our (the company I
work for) development lags Autodesk (anything they do) by at least 6
months. We'll be continuing to do development for ACAD R12, 3D Studio
R3 and ANI 1.3 for at least another year before we even consider the
new releases. It's just not safe to "be on top" when we're not told
what "on top" will be.
/* Interesting feed badk about inks – did you apply as a deveveloper
?
[not that you should have to – IMHO] */
We did, for several Adesk products. I got nowhere really with the INK.ZIP file,
hopefully Mark G. and J.Kent will focus on this vital need for the program.
Even if it means 1.4 ANI. <g>
/* more later – I got to get ready for the Pumpkinfest – Yep! mjor event in
town */
Lucky you… I'm in the process of moving. Happy happy. Joy joy. -dave