#New Rumor 10/2
62 messages in this thread
Well, here's my latest contribution to the rumor pot.
A friend of a friend who speaks with D. Pleasance regularly reports that
"an announcement will finally come from CBM-UK this week" announcing their
acquisition.
The interesting wrinkle to this rumor is tha allegedly the Phillippine
manufacturing plant has continued to produce product (mostly CD32s and
some 1200s) for the grayish-black market. Supposedly, there are now a
load of CD32s that will allow the new corp. to flood the market at low
cost.
We ought to start some sort of lottery pool – whoever is closest on the
timing (and details) right wins an appropriate prize. (In my case, it
would be a truckload of CD32s.)
– Joe
Joe,
I have no idea if your rumor contains any fact, altho I do know that there is a
victory party planned in London for October 13th to be put on by Amiga
International Ltd. I know someone who has invitation in hand.
People planning parties is the first sign of truth.
– Joe
For what it's worth, I have an invite to this party in my hand right at
this moment. I think it's a developers' bash more than a victory party,
but surely it must mean that C=UK, sorry, Amiga International Ltd, has its
finger in the pie somewhere despite all that CEI is saying?
Jeff Walker – Just Amiga Monthly
It's sure is a sign of confidence whether or not it comes true – I think
all of Amigadom just wants it settled. I know I do.
– Joe
The losing candidate plans a party, too.
In this case, though, I won't mind as long as SOMEBODY wins!
I don't know what anybody would do with a truckload of CD-32's, though. They'd
be awfully hard to sell without a rock-bottom price and a couple of CD's to go
with them. The consumer expects a big CD pool to select from these days (at
least I do, although I'm willing to consider myself exceptional).
-John M. Vreeland in San Diego this month
-jmvree@infi.net
>> I don't know what anybody would do with a truckload of CD-32's, though.
They'd be
>> awfully hard to sell without a rock-bottom price and a couple of CD's to go
with
>> them. The consumer expects a big CD pool to select from these days (at
least I
>> do, although I'm willing to consider myself exceptional).
Same here… I saw a CD-32 on display at the local Amiga dealer, with a $495
price tag. They had about three or four titles in stock to choose from. Not
something that would make my heart go pitty-pat. Then again, they have things
like TextCraft+ and ancient Metacomco stuff sitting on the shelf for original
release prices too. Some of the software has been sitting on the shelf for
over 5 years! (Litterally, same piece. They bought out the old owner, and it
has the old owners price sticker still on it. And there is more than one
example there.)
Hi Alex,
on a computer show in Eindhoven/Holland recently the cd32's were sold for
$150. And there were plenty of them too.
Vincent
AutoPilot all the way!
"I don't know what anybody would do with a truckload of CD-32's, though.
They'd be awfully hard to sell without a rock-bottom price…"
Actually, the OEM types are dragging the rivers looking for CD32s. I've
just been approached to do a project which would be perfect for CD32, but
we will prototype it on a PC because we can't count on getting a supply of
CD32 machines. And for a kiosk type application, $400 is rock bottom for
something like the CD32.
You're absolutely right, though. To make it as a consumer item, the CD32
would need more titles. Same goes for CD-I and 3DO.
-Jerry
This invitation has been sent quite a long ago now, and this can't be a
victory sign. C= UK think they can win, but nothing is done yet…
BTW, the invitation was quite humouristic : "Amiga is dead" was written on
it, then you discover "No way" when you open the letter… That seems like
English sense of humour to me…
Fred.
Frederic Botton from Paris, France
fbotton@cix.compulink.co.uk
Fred —
I've been a bit remiss. I promised to keep you up-to-date on the
liquidator. Alex Amor of CEI met Monday with the liquidator in the Bahamas.
He said he came away more confident about CEI's chances. The liquidator told
him what it would take to get the company and he went back to Miami, checked
with his backers and was told they are prepared to do what is necessary. As
you noted, a C-UK celebration next week may be premature. One can never be
sure about such things, but Amor said he thinks they are being premature. The
liquidator told me last week that he was in an advanced stage of negotiations
with one of the bidders, other than CEI. The liquidator told me he must submit
his recommendation to the Bahamian Supreme Court on or before Oct. 15. He also
said a major European company is still involved in the bidding, but for the
life of me, I don't know exactly how they would fit in. Amor says he has a
major corporate partner, but doesn't want to name the party until a decision is
made.
Cheers. How's the weather over there?
— Dan
Thank you for this update, Dan, I appreciate!
BTW, the weather is shiny but cold here 😉
Fred.
Frederic Botton from Paris, France
fbotton@cix.compulink.co.uk
"The liquidator told me he must submit his recommendation to the
Bahamian Supreme Court on or before Oct. 15."
Well, let's see what happens first – a recommendation from a liquidator in the
Bahamas, or Raul Cedras (sp?) leaving Haiti. 🙂
Yes, well, I might be tempted to bet on Cedras leaving.
— Dan
No truth whatsoever to the rumor that Haitian strongman Cedras has tapped
his Swiss bank account and is buying up rights to the Amiga. Also untrue
that his company will be named VooDoo Computer Economics Ltd. and that its
first order of business will be to introduce a new laptop model to be
called the Amiga Attache, bundled with Mortal Kombat II.
: )
The UK publication Computer Trade Weekly reports that the German bidder is
ESCOM. It's supposed to have over 240 stores across Europe, including 24
in the UK.
I haven't been able to verify the ESCOM angle, but I thought I'd pass it
along.
Steve —
I hadn't heard the ESCOM angle. I don't know how many stores they have
precisely, but I do know they are big and growing rapidly. I lived near one of
their shops during my 3 1/2 years in Berlin. I traveled a lot and did all my
work on a portable Compaq, but was intrigued by some of their offerings —
tower PC's with what looked like juke boxes built in for multiple hard drives.
They make and design computers, based on Intel-type chips, I believe, that look
more advanced than offerings I see here. (Don't know how well they actually
work.) The one story I saw about them, in the Financial Times I think, made it
clear they were taking a big and growing share of European PC market, cutting
into IBM and Compaq shares.
— Dan
I tried to keep an eye out for anything Amiga last time I was in Germany,
but I don't remember the ESCOM stores. I'd love to find out more about
what their plans are. It'd be pretty wild if the UK and CEI got beaten
out by ESCOM, considering all the "we're going to win" talk that's been
going on lately.
Steve
Hi Joe…
Thanks for the latest. Now, do I hold up CROSSINGS (again) just in case?
Decisions, decisions…
Marion
CROSSINGS
Newsletter for Amiga/PC/Mac compatibility
Haven't you heard of "Special Editions"?
– Joe
Yes, they cost real money!
Marion
How do I subscribe to crossing?
-=Andrew=-
Leave me your postal address by e-mail and I'll send you the info and a sample
issue.
Thanks for your interest…
Marion
CROSSINGS
Newsletter for Amiga/PC/Mac compatibility
Joe,
Then again, had you been at the CO this evening with Dan Stets of the
Philadelpia Inquirer you'd know about the Bahamian Supreme Court requiring a
recommendation from the liquidator on or before October 15.
The liquidator will only name CEI and the management team from C=UK as bidders
(because they've publically stated they are) but has said there are other
bidders as well, including a well know UK electronics company (Amstrad?).
Rumor has it that the Pleasance group has deeper pockets than CEI and their
backers.
At any rate, the recommendation of the liquidator will be made on or before the
15th. At that point, other bids can be submitted to the court (rather than the
trustee) and the trustee recommendation can be challenged by other bidders if
their bid were higher.
It's clear that any company that would want to do some harm to C= & the
Amiga, with sufficient backing, can play the "I now submit my bid" game…
I'm thinking of Philips/Amstrad here, just to protect the launch of the
CD-i console…
Fred.
Frederic Botton from Paris, France
fbotton@cix.compulink.co.uk
>> It's clear that any company that would want to do some harm to C= & the
>> Amiga, with sufficient backing, can play the "I now submit my bid" game…
>> I'm thinking of Philips/Amstrad here, just to protect the launch of the
>> CD-i console…
Spending millions to quash a product that is already out of production, seems a
bit foolish with ones money. Especially if they are willing to spend more than
folks who would be trying to make a buck at reviving it. The money could be
better spent in an advertising campaign to promote the product they have.
Something relatively significant happened today, but I'm not sure what it
means. CEI sent faxes to all of their dealers asking them how many Amigas
(broken down by model) they would anticipate ordering per month. CEI wasn't
asking for a commitment, just an honest answer. They also wanted that answer
to be faxed back to them by this afternoon.
Steve,
Sounds like they are sizing up current demand and projecting manufacturing
needs. Wonder if the UK group has already implemented such a study?
Regards,
John Chang
John,
Yes, that's what it sounds like. I have to wonder, tho, why at this late day
and why the rush?
Steve,
To convince their investors the demand is still there? Perhaps CEI's
bid, or financing is about to expire (or has expired) and they simply want to
reassure their investor(s) the buyout is still a good idea.
OR
The are so sure they've got the bid won, they need to put together
production schedules.
Don
That's what I meant … with that fax to their dealers, something significant
has happened. But what that significance is is still unknown.
Steve,
The study is probably being conducted for inclusion in the closing papers. I
suspect that it is for the Trustees use and possibly for the courts. My theory
anyway.
Regards,
John Chang
Yes, AFAIK, but for the UK market only, which is way smaller than the US
one. Some foreign distributors got in touch with C= UK by themselves at
the ECTS event in London.
Fred.
Frederic Botton from Paris, France
fbotton@cix.compulink.co.uk
Frederic,
Umm, I think if we looked a the demographics, the Amiga market is larger in
Europe than in the U.S. Indeed the Amiga market in the U.S. is larger than the
UK, but not by much! If we look at it from high-end use of the Amiga (e.g.
Desktop Video, Multimedia, Productivity), the U.S. has the major share. Home
computing and entertainment, Europe.
Regards,
John Chang
Technical Support Manager
Scala, Inc.
I've seen worse cases of money being thrown out of the window in France by
Philips, you know… Philips could have taken over a few C= with that
money!
Fred.
Frederic Botton from Paris, France
fbotton@cix.compulink.co.uk
Apparently there are CD32's about to become available and some large quantities
which have been purchased by specialty users recently which won't be resold
directly as CD32's.
Hehe, a new rumor…
Pleasance will stop the AAA for a new range of amiga with RISC
processors…
April 95' for developpers, and 12 month later (arghhhh) for the rest…
Alexandre on AutoPilot 1.74 – Viva el Amiga! 🙂
Sysop from the biggest board in french Switzerland.
I spoke personally with Dave Haynie last Sunday.
He finds it annoying that the UK has thrown out AAA without getting all of
the facts. It is his opinion that AAA is the easiest and most effective
way to get new technology in people's hands. He was quite sure it was the
cheapest 'new amiga' that could be built.
He didn't give me a time frame, but said that AAA relies on some RTG
capability in the OS. He said the chunky pixel modes in particular. So
putting AAA in a box is still on the 'right path'.
He said also that while AAA is not the hottest technology on the
planet–that it certainly would be a wonderful upgrade for Amigas and
still had things that PC boards etc., didn't have.
RISC would take far longer and would wreck our current software base. He
also indicated that it was very expensive R&D wise.. where AAA hardware is
nearly done.
-mark=
Otto Pilot Engaged..
Mark,
It seems to me that the AAA issue really rests on how close it is to
completion. Obviously if it is in beta stage then it would be a
worthwhile R&D expenditure. As far as RISC is concerned, I agree with the
Commodore UK group. It should be a top priority. Right now the future of
Amiga CPU development is far too dependant upon the whims of Motorola. "We
may release the 060 this year, and we may not. We might continue to
develop this line of technology, or we might not." RISC is obviously the
way to go. Yes, there will most likely be major software compatability
problems, but if the Amiga is to be reborn, then what better place to make
the transition.
Regards, Marty
"When the eagles are silent the parrots begin to jabber"
-Sir Winston Churchill
In that regard (re your comment on Amiga's Motorola dependency) very
disturbing report this week that Motorola will begin manufacturing
Macintosh clones. It is becoming a vertically integrated company. I'm sure
it'll still sell 68XXXX and PowerPC chips to whomever wants to buy, but at
what price?
You obviously don't understand their market. Personal computers are a
very small part of it. Cars and microwaves have a lot more Motorola CPUs.
>> In that regard (re your comment on Amiga's Motorola dependency) very
>> disturbing report this week that Motorola will begin manufacturing
>> Macintosh clones. It is becoming a vertically integrated company. I'm sure
>> it'll still sell 68XXXX and PowerPC chips to whomever wants to buy, but at
>> what price?
Motorolas computers will not be Mac Clones. They will use the power PC chip,
but not be Mac work alikes. Apple has only once liscensed their operating
system for any computer, and that was the an Apple II+ clone named after Albert
Einstein. The Motorola computers will carry other brand names at first, and
have been seen as a way to boost lagging Power PC sales. (With the below
expectation sales of the Mac Power PC, and the delayed entry of the IBM Power
PC, Motorola needs something to help move those chips.)
As far as continued sales of 68vvvv and Power PC chips. Motorola will sell
them as long as there is a demand, and it is to Motorola's beneift to get them
into as many different brands of machines as possible. They do not have a
market dominant computer, to sell. Can you imagine what would have happened to
Intel, had they cut off IBM, before clones dominated the market? Motorola is
fighting an uphill battle against Intel. They need all the friends and
customers they can get. To cut folks off would be suicide. (Or did Gould and
Mhedi get jobs at Motorola while nobody was looking? <G>)
>Motorola computers will not be Mac Clones.
>Apple has only once licensed their OS….and that was an Apple II+
Apple has announced plans to license the Mac OS, and Motorola is one of the
potential licensees. Motorola would be building Mac clones for sale in China
and for sale to the US government.
Michael
I have been following the PowerPC saga since mid '92. The computer
industry is in DESPERATE need for something better than Micros**t's dreary
PC architecture. The Amiga has the *features* but not the visibility,
support, or integration in today's networked infrastructure. And of
course, now it's an orphan (at least until somebody buys Commodore's
bones).
For the last two years I have been reading how the PowerPC will break the
stranglehold that Intel has on the computer market, as though Intel was
the problem. Now that actual machines are available, one has two choices,
the Power Mac and the IBM Power PC.
As an Amiga owner, I can attest to life with an "alternate" platform. If
you own any computer other than a PC, you are on an island. If you are
going to live on an island, there darn well better be some good reasons
for doing so. This was what undid the Atari ST-it was an island, yet
managed to incorporate almost all of the PC's shortcomings. The result was
the worst of both and the best of neither one. Both the Amiga and the Mac
offer their owners valid reasons for living on their respective islands.
For all of the contempt shown by Amiga owners for the Mac, at least Apple
truly has a vision of what their product is about. The Power Mac is that
vision operating four times faster. For Mac users, that is sufficient
reason to live on the Apple island. Despite Micros**t's claims, the PC has
NEVER worked like a Mac.
When I discussed the Power PC with IBM reps recently, it was clear that
they have no vision concerning the PowerPC. As far as they are concerned,
you should live on the IBM PowerPC island just because it is IBM's new
box. Operating system? How about some strange amalgam of OS/2, Unix,
Windows, Presentation Manager, MS-DOS, and VM with an object oriented
angle. Well, you first.
The bottom line is that after more than two years of hype, we have two
completely different machines, one of which is being marketed in complete
absence of any vision. Each machine is available from exactly one company.
And this is going to defeat Micros**t's clone army.
Right.
Tab Trepagnier
Cruising on AutoPilot from Beaumont, Texas
Tab –
Apple has announced that they will be licensing there OS, so there will be
authorized Mac clones.
One of the strengths of the PowerPC architecture is that it represents the
potential for a common hardware architecture with a low end in home use
through high end industrial and scientific workstations. MS-DOS will not
play in the workstation market (though have MS-DOS in a window is a useful
tool), Unix is the dominant workstation OS. Microsoft is positioning
Windows/NT for use in the high end, and I imagine that IBM would want to
have OS/2/Presentation Manager as an option for the upper end (they
already have their version of Unix available).
Don't count IBM out just yet (they've got a good marketing campaign going
for their new Aptiva line of multi-media PCs); remember what all those
"clones" are "clones" of <g>.
With respect to the Amiga, _if_ Amiga production resumes, it would
probably be smart to look at the 68060 as the next new CPU while starting
the conversion to RISC. Since emulating the 680X0 on the PowerPC is
relatively easy, that architecture would be a good candidate for a RISC
Amiga.
Jeff Schweiger
Alex,
Apple annonced about 3 weeks ago that they will now license their OS. The
day it was on the news I posted Jim Drew to see if he was goint to license
it so he could sell Emplants with ROMs on board, bot got no reply. I have
thought his silence on the matter may be due to some negotiations with
Apple that he feels would make answering such queries inappropriate. But,
the bottom line is that Apple is now licensing thier OS to firms who want
ot make Apple clones.
wmc – via Autopilot!
Martin,
I am not a hardware engineer at all.. but I was talking with one of the
best.. 🙂
I think that RISC must come.. but it doesn't have to come for a while.
The 68060 is still supposed to be released and it is the next logical
upgrade for the Amiga. I doubt that those who are in the software
business right now, would want to have immediate incompatibility with new
hardware. AAA will be bad enough. 🙂
Lets just hope we get to have this argument for real. 🙂
-mark=
Otto Pilot Engaged..
Amen – for once I'd like to argue, or be given the excuse to do so 😎
DJ
On AP from Queens, the thrill and excitement of the Big Apple
Where a little paranoia is always a healthy attitude …
Alex,
If I have my facts straight, AAA, economically, makes more sense to develop.
Especially if the new owners do not have money to burn. Which is probably
going to be the case. The RISC stuff is mostly on paper and CAD simulations,
whereas AAA is already in first silicon. AAA OS work will need to be done,
which will take about 18 months. From a technology and engineering point of
view, the RISC stuff is fascinating and could possibly be more powerful than
what is available on PC systems today.
Now, if we had to do a market reality check, I don't know if this new type of
technology could find a home in the personal computer market. That,
unfortunately, has already been well defined by Macs and PCs. Graphic
workstations, desktop video, multimedia, game machine engines, no problem.
Here's to hoping.
Regards,
John Chang
John,
The real question (IMHO) is that given the 18 months needed to complete
the OS side of AAA implementation, is this another example of "too little,
too late" in terms of technological advancement? I don't have the answer
to this question, but it is, I believe, the one that must be made in order
to decide to proceed with AAA development or not.
18 months of OS development is a significant investment.
– BobR
Bob,
I asked Dave Haynie this question.. his answer was something like
this–"AAA adds significant capability to the graphics hardware that while
not necessarily state of the art, it does offer many great things–some of
which are not in current PC technology."
He also said that AAA would be the easiest to do. 🙂
-mark=
Otto Pilot Engaged..
I guess the key issue here is, how accurate is the 18 month estimate?
Anyone remember who suggested it? And are these man-months which could be
parceled out and thus shorten significantly the time-to-market?
Anybody out there care to comment?
DJ
On AP from Queens, the thrill and excitement of the Big Apple
Where a little paranoia is always a healthy attitude …
Software Engineering at Commodore had been meeting schedules pretty well
for the last few years — marketing and management inserted random delays
between engineering release and customer availability.
I don't know who made the 18-month estimate, but it is probably for a
reasonable number of engineers (at some point adding more just makes
things go slower) and it probably accounts for some getting up to speed,
but probably also depends on some experienced engineers returning for the
work. I have difficulty imaginging it being done sooner, but I think it
could be done that soon with the right resources.
I don't know that there is an RTG design to start with. Chris and Spence
had a design. Alan decided to toss it after they left. AmigaReport
reports that Alan has left. That would leave no one who's done Graphics
or Intuition at Commodore, and those are the two critical parts for a AAA
release. The key is getting someone with a good Amiga background to do a
really good design for the RTG system, and then to have engineers who
really knows the Amiga graphics and GUI for implementing it.
I can't imagine how long it would take if you couldn't hire people already
familiar with Intuition, for example. Think of all the compatibility
issues and other kinds of pitfalls.
And I'd suspect that many of the engineers who've left the Amiga would
have to be paid very highly to be enticed back. Why interrupt a succesful
new career path to return to a machine that's burned you once with a
company without any track record of engineering at all. Commodore itself
relocated some engineers and then layed them off less than six months
later. It seems entirely possible that a new company might do the same
(do six months of engineering and then run out of money or see shifting
market conditions and change its mind about how badly it wants new
Amigas). That possibility will weigh heavily and will have to be overcome
somehow.
Let's hope there's a rich dark horse somewhere in there. It happens to
other companies – I think it's our turn now …
DJ
On AP from Queens, the thrill and excitement of the Big Apple
Where a little paranoia is always a healthy attitude …
I thought the rumored A5000 running prototype was AAA and RISC.
Joe Maulucci >>> Accadia Electronic Arts
AMIGA DTV & DTP BBS 1-716-882-1774
I think the key word here is "rumored" ;-}
-mls
"When the eagles are silent the parrots begin to jabber"
-Sir Winston Churchill
If there were no rumors then the Amiga would really be dead.
Who ever wins the technology better have the money to do a large media
blitz. Here's an idea for a tv spot…
B&W scenes from Frankinstein: Laboratory, the doctor, the gismos, and
something on the operating table. After a bit of tinkering, and a couple
static charges, the doctor yells — "It's Alive, It's Alive".
He moves away from the table and reveals an Amiga (the only thing in color
-of course). He hits a key and on the monitor's screen you see a Max
Headroomesque monster who says A-A-A-Amiga.
Joe Maulucci >>> Accadia Electronic Arts
AMIGA DTV & DTP BBS 1-716-882-1774
But they are some rumors about C=… C= UK has bought the group… (okay,
it's an another rumors, but it's an "official rumor") 🙂
Alexandre on AutoPilot 1.74 – Viva el Amiga! 🙂
Sysop from the biggest board in french Switzerland.
Since the current deadline for the trustees to submit a recommendation to
the Bahamian Supreme Court is Oct 15, a decision may not have yet been
made. On this end of the Atlantic, CEI has sounded fairly confident about
their bid for C=, too. Until there is an official announcement, reports
of success for both companies are rumors.
Jeff Schweiger
Myself, I'd kind of like a resuscitation scene like the one in the Abyss,
complete with Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio, and I get to do the CPR …
CLEAR!!!!
DJ
On AP from Queens, the thrill and excitement of the Big Apple
Where a little paranoia is always a healthy attitude …
Hehe, I know too this Amiga 5000 rumor… But it's unfortunately only a
rumor and in UK, it's an another rumor… No AAA chipset, only RISC, but
WHICH architecture in this RISC Amiga?
An AA chipset with 256 colors and an ugly HAM8 ?
Nice RISC… 🙁
Alexandre on AutoPilot 1.74 – Viva el Amiga! 🙂
Sysop from the biggest board in french Switzerland.