#Flyer .9 info
43 messages in this thread
Thanks to all of you Flyer owners for posting such useful info about this early
rev of the product.
I finally got my unit and installed it in an A2000 which also has my TBCIV/PAR
combo and even though it was a tight fit (couldn't install the strain relief
cable properly), everything seems to be working fine. I am able to run the
original Toaster 3.1 software as well as Flyer (but not simultaneously).
My first impressions regarding the audio and video quality are very good. I'm
feeding BetacamSP footage and it comes back out of the Flyer nearly as good as
the original. Only very slightly softer, but the chroma performance is stellar.
I am able to play audio clips in a sequence with video clips with no apparent
difficulty. For the record, the Flyer board I have is a production version, not
a beta.
I ran into an early problem that I thought I should detail here that occured
when I captured clips that looked great going in, but suffered terribly from
picture distortion whenever there was high luma value in the picture during
playback. As it turned out, the video monitor attatched to the program output
wasn't properly terminated. After several FLyer re-calibrations and autohues,
it finally occured to me that the problem wasn't in the Flyer but external.
After properly terminating the signal at the program monitor, the problem
dissapeared.
Anyway, aside from a few problems when attempting to load PS fonts and
Toasterpaint, an ocassional stutter on some clips, everything is on the whole
pretty darn good. The .9 version is ALMOST useable in my online suite, but
until the keying is enabled it's have to remain in practice mode installed on
the A2000. When it's finally 4.0 I'll pop it in the A4000 in the main room and
go for more Gigs.
Haven't tried any Lightwave 3.5 features yet, I'll platy with that over the
week-end.
Frank
Frank, Welcome to the club.
Regards, Gary
Gary: and Henry Fred and the rest…
Well the good news is My Flyer finaly arived at my dealer today! 8) The Bad
news is, although the Drives have been in for over a week now, the Micro Tower
for them is nowhere to be seen. So My question to the Experts is, "Should I
have the Board instaled tomorrow while I actualy have some time and pick up the
drives when I can, Or should I do the right thing and wait till I can pick up
the whole enchilada. Is the first option a recipe for disaster?"
Waiting to join the club…
Brad Hayes
Hayes Visual Communication
Brad, You don't mention how far away your dealer is, or if you have to climb a
volcano or anything.
If it;s no big deal to get there, then go for it. At least you can look over
the manual (such as it is), and fondle the CD.
Regards, Gary
Gary:
Nope, no volcanos! Just a treacherous trek across the San Fernando Valley. At
least it has stoped raining! 8)
>>At least you can look over the manual<<
Yea, That's what I was thinkin'…
Brad Hayes
Hayes Visual Communication
Brad,
Ah Ha, KJs gotta Flyer!!!? Cool.
I haven't been there for a couple weeks now. Things have been kinda
discouraging lately, but we all MUST support our local dealers. Perhaps
I'll see you there this weekend :^)
I may add a VLAB-M system to my personal Toaster Bay for NL editting. It
may be a while before the Flyers price gets to a hobbiest level. I'd like
to make some room in my A2000 for a Flyer though :^) Perhaps after a few
projects with the VLAB-M.
….John
Brad,
I'm going to echo Gary's answer. Even without the hard drives, you can check
out the new Toaster effects, have fun making TPaint crash, and try and figure
out some of the new Lighwave menus.
Seriously, if it is not a great distance to have the system installed, do it.
You'll at least get a chance to learn the system.
I just realized, you don't have the CD-ROM drive. Can your dealer at least
install your software from a CD-ROM drive he has?
Fred
Fred:
I do have a CD-Rom. Really the only thing that would stop me is I would like
for my dealer to be resonsable for geting it fully running. However I am
probibly more qualified from following all your massages here. This time
tomarrow I'm sure I will be crahsing TPaint.
Standing by for take off….
Brad Hayes
Hayes Visual Communication
Brad,
When my dealer hooked up my system, he had three cables coming out of the back
of my Amiga 4000. This is in addition to two other very short cables that he
was not sure of their use.
I picked up my system and brought it back to my studio, rather than have him
ship me anything. So, on the back of the tower, which again, I bought from my
dealer and had him install the hard drives and the CD-ROM drive, are three
Centronics connections. Each was numbered, as were the cables from the Amiga.
All I had to do was plug each cable into its proper conector.
The dealer bussed the CD-ROM in with one of the Flyer Drives, which is the
reason for only having three cables for 3 hard drives and one CD-ROM drive.
Fred
Brad,
Whats the big deal on the Mini tower? From what I can tell from my FLight
recorder package, all you would have to do is buy a mini tower from a local
electronics vendor, clip the leds from the power & turbo positions on the
front, run those wires to the LED terminals on the FLyer HDs, then install two
(or three if using it tos store your audio drive) SCSI adaptor cables. I am
feeling quite ripped off to see the shoddy workmanship and chep casing that is
being referred to as the Flight recorder (got mine from Computer Basics for
$349 (what a GIP!) Yeah, it has 4 powered PC slots, but it's only a $40 386
motherboard without any CPU or memory installed.I could have thrown this unit
together for less than $125!
If you are feeling adventurous, I would suggest doing the installation yourself
and let the dealer eat the tower unit.
Frank
PMFJI, but I've felt the same way about these 'external enclosures'
Any adventurous hacker can do the whole thing for around $100.
I've been pitching the idea to VTU for several months now, but they don't
seem interested in doing my article. It would be based primarily on the
file 'BILDIT.LHA' in the AmigaUser text forum.
I wrote this little text file on 'how to build an external enclosure' a
few years ago, and already several hundred people have DL'd the file.
Anyone interested in doing their own external enclosure, check out the
text file called 'BILDIT.LHA' in the AmigaUser forum. It's kind of rough,
but it gives all the necessary information.
Keep On Toastin'
Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
Erik,
Do you or anyone else out there know if it is OK to run the flyer SCSI
connections
through the 25 pin cables that are used on Amigas and Macs?
I found a nifty little adapter board at a local electronics parts shop that
goes from 50pin SCSI ribbon to the 25pin connectors. I would like use these to
make
a little box to hang on my 4000 and then run either 25pin->Centronics cables
like most external SCSI boxes use, or maybe even 25pin->25pin, to my home built
drive tower. I also need to do this as my Toshiba CD-ROM is an external shared
with my Mac and PC's. I remember reading that
the 25pin SCSI cables are not reliable (although I've never had a problem on my
Amigas or Macs…). Any thoughts appreciated from all.
Also, my Toshiba is a newer version than the Toshiba model numbers listed
several months ago in VTU. I don't have an additional SCSI board besides the
flyer, so has anyone had any luck loading from a CDROM that is not on that
list?
Will the flyer SCSI interface #3 work with the driver located here on CIS?
Thanks to all,
Brian
btw. I got my flyer from Computer Basics today. The CDrom has no external
version
marking on it, but the floppy has a "4" scribbled after the .9 version number.
I read recently that the most recent floppy had an orange dot on it?
Can someone tell me what the latest version is as of the end of this week?
thanks agian, Brian
Brian,
Congratulations!!!
Let me jump in and answer a couple of your questions.
The version of the software you received is the latest and greatest. The orange
dot disks are a couple of releases back.
The mac flavored SCSI connectors/cables will work just fine with your Amiga
SCSI devices.
The CDROM software that comes with your Flyer is essentially Asimware's CDROM
FS which supoorts all native drives in the same family, so if you have a newer
rev Toshiba, you won't have any problems, it should work just fine.
Despite all my complaining about the Qauntum HD problems I am very pleased with
the preliminary release of FLyer with regard to it's video/audio quality. You
and I have discussed on a number of occasions what editing options you were
looking into, I believe your confidence in the Newtek product will be more than
justified once 4.0 is released. Keep in touch.
Frank
I'm not sure if you'd want to be running Flyer video data through a DB-25
connector. While I never had any problems using 25-50 pin cables, I am
currently using 50 pin centronics on all my connections to the WarpEngine
SCSI controller.
I'm pretty sure you would lose any benefits of active termination, if
you're using an active terminator. I would recommend just putting the
CD-ROM on as the last device on the SCSI chain, then you'd only have to go
to 25 pins for a short distance.
BTW, where did you find these 50 pin ribbon cable to DB-52 adaptors?!?
I've been hunting high and low for them.
Since I don't have a Flyer, I can't help you with the other questions
Sorry.
Keep On Toastin'
Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
Erik,
PMFJI, but re:
<< BTW, where did you find these 50 pin ribbon cable to DB-52 adaptors?!?
I've been hunting high and low for them. >>
Call Redmond Cable @ 206.882.2009 and speak to Becky.
Jerry
Cool! How much?!?
Keep On Toastin'
Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
Erik,
I don't remember how much those adapters are, but they're not much. The front
of Redmond Cable's catalog is styled "The Weird Cable Company," and they have
all those little things that you know exist, but can't seem to find a source
for when you need 'em…
Jerry
Erik,
thanks for the info.
The SCSI ribbon to DB-25 adaptors are little boards at a local electronics
shop (they are not boards which would fit an I/O opening in the back of a a PC
case).
I seem to remember that 3 can be had for about $10, but can't remember. What I
will do is run SCSI 3 to my audio drive internal to my 4000, then to the
adapter and out to my SCSI CDrom drive. Anyway, I'd be happy to get you a few
and ship them to you at cost plus shipping.
Brian
'they are not boards which would fit an I/O opening in the back of a PC
case.'
Grrrr.
Still, at that price, I'll take $10 worth! I'd appreciate it if you could
pick me up a few when you have a chance.
(Too bad you aren't _Tom_ Jones – I just sent him a VGA Adaptor for
$10+s/h! :^)
BTW, this isn't somewhere here in the SF Bay Area, is it?!?
Thanks, &
Keep On Toastin'
Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
"BTW, where did you find these 50 pin ribbon cable to DB-52 adaptors?!?" .
What the hay-L is a DB-52 adaptor?
🙂
Christopher
Erik,
Thanks for postin this info. I am sure there are many planning to buy Flyers
who will benefit.
Frank
As for towers, I bought a generic 7 bay tower with a 250 watt power supply, and
two drive fans:
Cost…….$198.
Regards, Gary
Frank:
I agree. However the mini tower (micro tower actualy) is part of what is
included from NewTek. It's not somthing I had to pay extra for.
Brad Hayes
Hayes Visual Communication
Brad –
Did you buy two Newtek certified drives from a dealer? If so, the drive
chassis should have been free and included. You should also get the
'octopus cable'.
Hank
Videology, Inc Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all
circumstances.
Hank:
Yes, it just has not arived at the dealer yet. The drives are there and we
hooked them up and formated them using an external power suply. Of course that
was before I fixed the font problem, so I didn't get to record any video yet.
8( Hopfuly by Tuseday.
Brad Hayes
Hayes Visual Communication
Gary,
As you may have seen from an earlier post I was having problems with the
Quantum HD that CB sent with the Flight Recorder (the unit has "Quantum
Evaluation Unit" stamped on it). It would lock up every second time it played a
certain clip. Well, after a lot of head scratching, cable swapping, defragging,
FLyer re-formats, and general frustration I decided to recapture the clip, and
now it appears to work flawlessly. But then again it was working just fine last
evening before I shut everything down, so I guess we'll just have to wait and
see what gives tomorrow.
Just in passing, one of my clients who was in the studio earlier today to post
a TV spot, after seeing a short demo of the FLyer, he asked if I would mind
using the it to post two 15 second versions of the :30 we just finished in the
linear Bcam/MII edit bay. He was extremely intrigued with the possibility of
moving clips around for fast changes. He books travel excursions to Mexico and
Hawaii and has lo-ball airfare prices that require frequent updating. By having
fast turnaround on different versions of essesntially the same spot, we can
change prices and destinations quite easily. The only hangup I have at this
point is the extremely awkward way that the present Flyer software handles
"insert-video-to-audio" type edits. While I am able to play audio clips withinn
a video sequence, I can see I'll be spending huge amounts of time changing the
in/out points of the video clips to get the CG pricing footage to match the
announce copy. Incedently, I am creating original CG keys over footage on my
other Toaster using Montage, and running straight to BetacamSP, then digitzing
from that source to the FLyer. So far the results are acceptable, but
unfortunately the TBC I am using (TBCIV) doesn't have any way to handle Betacam
component for input, so I have to use the composite out of a portable (BVW35)
whcic is not nearly as crisp as either a properly transcoded Bcam-to-composite
signal or the composite output of my other Bcam source deck (BVW15). Since my
two systems are in different rooms, I'll have to either snag a decent bcam
transcoder or wait until 4.0 ships and I convert the main edit suite over to
the FLyer. I am extremely tempted to run a direct cable from the output of my
main edit bay Toaster into the other room to capture Flyer CG overlay footage
without having to go BcamSP in between. If I get ambitious and can work out the
delay timing considerations I'll post a note to let everyone know how it turned
out.
On the whole, I am very pleased with the quality of the Flyer and hope to see
4.0 installed quickly. I am anxious to start getting a return on my investment,
and stop paying for the privelege of bug catching for Newtek.
I do babble on at times, please forgive.
Frank
Frank, It sounds like you've already discovered a way that the Flyer is gonna
pay for itself!! Regards, Gary
Frank,
You may have had to wait a while for your system, but right at this moment, you
have a more recent version than some of us who got the system two weeks ago.
Thanks for posting the information about the quality from BetacamSP. I've had
some people ask me what Betacam will look like through the system and now I can
tell them.
Let me know if you have figured out a way to edit video to music. You mentioned
this as being one of your needs several weeks ago. I spent an entire day trying
to do it, and finally gave up and started doing the editing on tape.
The problem that I found, was not knowing where I was in time at any particular
point in the music. I know how the editing system should look to achieve this
kind of editing, but I don't think the Flyer has that ability in this version.
You would actually have to be able to create edits in the CONTROL screen of a
clip. Kind of an editor within an editor.
Maybe 4.0 will be able to do this. NewTek's tech told me that they are shooting
for a late March or early April completion date. I hope this is one schedule
they actually hold to.
Fred
Fred,
Although I have had good success with playing back audio clips within a
sequence of video clips, the problem with the Quantum HD still persists, even
after my last post where I mentioned that recapturing the clip seemed to fix
the lock-up problem I was having. Well, it's BAAAAACK. Apparently what happens
is the files get corrupted once there has been a power down of the system and
the drive is restarted from a cold boot. I spoke with one of the Newtek tech
support people today and he mentioned that there have been some problems
reported with the Qauntum drives. Funny, the drive I have supposedly went thru
exhastive testing by Newtek before it was shipped to my dealer, that's what
everyone is led to believe when they buy Newtek "certified" drives. I think at
this point we are all being led astray on that particular point. My feeling is
that first of all, only a handful of actual drives get tested, then other
drives with matching firmware are added to the batch of tested and approved
drives. With their 5 year warranty, I think Newtek is just "rubber stamping"
the majority of the drives when they arrive and theyplan on just replacing the
defective drives as problems arise and get warranty exchanges from the drive
manufacturers. My main gripe is that I paid such a high price for this drive
and I can't accept that it went thru any kind of exhaustive testing whatsoever.
If I were to hazard a guess as to what is happening with this model drive; I
would have to say that there is some sort of recalibration, or reset of the
drive's cache settings (from Quantum's own HD controller) that takes place when
the drive first powers up and before the FLyer takes control.
I guess I'll just have to get used to working with one drive for the time being
until Computer Basics can send me the drive I originally agreed to buy, the
IBM. I am going to make a rather large stink about this issue with them, so if
anyone else out there bought their systems from CB and got a Quantum drive
instead of an IBM, let me know. It would be helpful to know if anyone else is
going thru the same dificulties I am having
Regards
Frank
Frank,
I too ended up with a Quantim drive, where the original quote showed an IBM.
And I've have problems playing clips after the system has powered down. So,
maybe there is a connection.
I also know that there is a bug in the reorg command. It you run it, you take
the chance of deleting existing video clips. Although this was supppose to be
fixed in the version you have.
Fred
Fred,
I have done both reorg and Flyerformat, cache etc. on the Quantum drive. Still
the same problem persists. My rebooting of the computer usually consists of
shutting off the power to the tower containing the video drives (this unfreezes
the Flyer software so that I can quit) then turning the power back on to the
tower, waiting for all drives to cycle thru power up, then warm booting the
Amiga. This will usually cure the problem with the Quantum drive TEMPORARILY.
Incedently, your model numbers for the HDs match mine exactly.
On Monday I am going to attempt to get my dealer to honor their original quote
and exchange the Quantum for the original model IBM that was supposed to be
delivered to me. They made NO representation that the IBM would be switched
with a Quantum, all they said was that Newtek had sent them the drives. Perhaps
you sholuld contact your dealer as well.
Frank
Fred,
Re:Editing video to audio
PMFJI,
Tomorrow, I'll be trying to do the above. I'll record an audio section over a
black
screen and put a several second leader before the audio starts. In the
fine tune panel, I'll end the video clip at the end of the leader, and keep the
audio running the full length of the clip. Adding video clips with the audio at
0% should allow this kind of edit. We'll find out, I guess.
By the way, has anyone found a way to adjust the audio input levels, short of
an external mixer? It would be nice to have audio metering, ala Studio 16.
Elliot
Elliot,
This is exactly the same method that I used. Recorded music onto a video clip
with black. Did a split edit so that only the first few seconds of black video
would come up on the screen. Then started placing all of the video framestores
after the video clip which had music.
The problem that I ran into is that I like to cut video to the beat of the
music. So, the music starts playing. The first framestore appears. Now, I hear
the beat in the music where I would like to cut to the next framestore. But, I
have no way of knowing where that point is in time. It would be a trial and
error method, which seem the long way of doing it.
Let me know how you manage and what technique you finally use.
Fred
Fred,
I couldn't get it to work. I keep getting a message that I don't have enough
space on my flyer drives to do an A/B Roll edit. I know that's not the case.
I'm too chicken to try reorganizing my drives. My drives may already be
too fragmented to do the proper edits. I only have 2Gig drives.
As to what you're doing, it looks like as you move the audio sliders, you
should be able to get a reasonable time line for your video edits from the
audio that you hear.
Elliot
Elliot,
If you are just testing with your clips, go ahead an do a reorganizing on your
drives. The worst that came happen is that you will have to reload the clips
and reset the start and ending points.
I was able to do some A/B effects with only a minute of time left on my @GB
drive, although I had most of my clips on my 9GB and still had 30 some minutes
left on it.
From what I have read and seen, the Flyer puts a new clip after the last one
loaded. If you delete the first clip you recorded, this does not free up any
space until you reorganize. You could delete all of your clips except for the
last one and the time available would still be the same.
As to my audio edits. I remember trying to use the slider and the time code it
showed to set my framestores. For some reason, I was having a problem with it,
but now that you suggested it, let me give it another try. I can't remember why
it didn't work, but maybe I need to give it another try.
If you have the new software, one 3.5 disk and the new CD-ROM version .94, this
was suppose to fix the problem of the reorganizing disks.
Fred
Fred,
I do have the .94 version and I did finally reorganize the disk, and I still
couldn't do the audio edit.
Now, I'm having problems with some clips not playing. It looks like the first
frame is playing, and but the clip doesn't play through, although it lasts for
the
length of the clip. Also, sometimes, the clip plays through just black.
I keep hearing of problems with the Quantum drives, which I have.
Well, time to frustrate myself some more.
Elliot
Hi Fred –
Have you gotten version 3.94. That's the latest and everyone should be
updated by next week. Then Newtek is planning on putting out info files
or something.
Hank
Videology, Inc Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all
circumstances.
Frank: Thanks for all the info. Good news on the video quality. Since I
plan on adding the Flyer to a 2000 as well, are there any limitations with
using the 2000 as the host? I'm thinking of the clip croutons themselves.
I understood NewTek was going to release a version of the Flyer that
would provide color croutons on a ECS Amiga, but had heard it's a couple
months away. Does your board have this capability, or are we talking B&W
croutons here?
Thanks!
Trent/ReAnimators
Trent, The croutons on my 4000 system are indeed in color. I helped a frieind
set up his 2000 Flyer today and saw the B&W ones.
'glad I went with the 4000 (not to mention the big difference in TPaint).
Regards, Gary
Trent,
My clip Icons on the 2000 Flyer installation are black and white (no greyscale
either). I have an ECS chip that I can install just in case they decide to
implement that feature. The main limitations of the 2000 based system relate to
anything that uses AGA, such as Toasterpaint. Also the version of lightwave I
have doesn't allow you to record single frame to the FLyer, but I understand
that feature will be implemented by the time 4.0 ships.
Frank
Thanks Frank.
Trent/ReAnimators