#Bad Mail Order Company
18 messages in this thread
Has anyone else had problems with Micro Computer Services of Southfield
Michigan? I placed a order with them for $904 worth of hardware in
September 1989 and I am still waiting for my goods. The owner of the place
simply
refuses to give me any reason why he will not send me my hardware. I have
asked AmigaWorld if they could do something about getting my money back or
getting my goods for me but they seem to be unsuccessful as well. M.C.S.
advertises with them so I thouht they could help. Is there anyone out there
who can advise me on what I can do to get my money back or get my hardware?
I live in New Zealand so legal action would be difficult.
How did you pay for the product? Credit card I hope?
— Ethan
Yes I paid by VISA credit card but they say that I can only claim a refund
if I had contacted them within 60 days of purchase.
Yes. That 60 day limit is listed in the pamphlet your bank sends you
with the credit card. Gotta read the fine print!
— Ethan
>> "I asked AmigaWorld . . . but they seem to be unsuccessful as well…"
Peter,
If they advertise in Amiga World, I would expect that if you go high enough
in the AW hierarchy you will find someone who can put some pressure on. AW
takes reasonable efforts to only carry advertising from established firms
and tries to stay away from the fly-by-night operations. They can refuse
to carry further advertising from a company that takes people's money.
Did you phone in your order, or mail it in? If you mailed it in, once it
crossed the border it was U.S. Mail, and they have to offer you a refund if
they can't ship within 30 days of receiving your money. Otherwise you
could call the U.S. Postal authorities. They become the plaintiff in any
legal action, so you shouldn't have to worry about having to appear in
court or anything.
If you paid by credit card, on the other hand, your bank can, at your
request, initiate something known as a 'charge back,' in which you file a
form with your bank alleging impropriety in the company's handling of the
affiar. If the bank determines that the company acted improperly, they
will credit your account. The amount is then charged back to the company.
At that point, Visa (or Mastercard, or whoever) simply deducts the amount
from the future sales posted against that type of card.
Pete
Thanks for the information. I'll try to get in touch with someone at
AmigaWorld that is a bit higher up than the Customer Service person I have
been dealing with for the past 5 months. On the subject of VISA, I was told
by them that I should have claimed within 60 days of purchase.
Peter,
Push your request a bit higher up the line at VISA. I think a case could
be made that 'purchase' means when you receive the item. Since it has not
yet shipped, and you have not received it, the transaction has not been
completed. I think on that basis someone with authority could make a case
for saying the clock hasn't started to run yet. There are others who will
say the clock started to run when the account was charged, but I believe
that a convincing argument directed to someone in upper management could
still get that changed.
Pete
Peter –
From what I have read about your plight in an earlier message, I
recommend that you contact the nearest U.S. Ditrict Attorney and scream,
"MAIL FRAUD!"
– Nelson …
Peter,
If you used a credit card to pay for that merchandise, then your card
company will go to work for you. I once had to call on American Express to
get my money back on a purchase, and you would not believe which company it
was that gave me the trouble (definitely not CBM)!! It took a few phone
calls and about six weeks, but they got back every penny.
If you sent a check, a letter to the Better Business Bureau of Southfield
might be in order. I believe that one can also get help through the post
office in case of mail orders, but I forget how to go about getting it.
Failure to send merchandise is postal fraud, and thus the post office can
take action against them.
Betty
Thanks for the information. I did use a VISA credit card to pay for my
purchase and have been in contact with them but they told me that I should
have notified them within 60 days. What M.C.S. keeps telling me (when they
answer the phone) is that my Hard drive order has been sent but has been
lost in the mail twice so far. However, they are never able to give me any
of the shipping information e.g. Date of shipment, insurance no, method of
shipment etc. They have definately got my address details correct as I have
checked this with them many times. I get at least two shipments from the
U.S. each month (mostly magazines but also hardware) and I have never had
any problems. And M.C.S tries to tell me that their shipment has been lost
twice. I have been told that the owner of M.C.S. ( a person named Archie)
has been handling my order personally since the beginning of the year and
that nobody else can help me. The problem is Archie is extremely hard to
get to talk to and he never answers my faxes. It has cost me around $500 so
far in faxes and phone calls but I am very reluctant to let him get away
with stealing my money so I will persevere.
You have my sympathy and best regards. I would suggest that you next
contact the Postal Authority – sure wish I knew the address, but I think
someone else gave you that in another message. I suspect that this would
be your next best resource. If they suspect mail fraud, THEY take the
action. They even got my daughter a refund once (she was about 13 at the
time) from a company that I never dreamed would pay up. They did it rather
promptly, too, as I recall. Our post office is slow as Christmas about
delivering their mail, but they do try hard to prevent mail fraud.
Betty
Comment to Betty & Peter.
If MCS shipped (or supposedly shipped the product twice), would they not
probably be using UPS, or Fed Express and not the Postal Service.
Peter, you say your contact with MCS has been by phone & faxes. So far
the US postal service is not involved in this matter. This is not a matter
of postal fraud. This of course, is IMHO!?
Peter, you need to pressure the Visa bank and/or maybe some local
consumers affairs department or something that you have there in New
Zealand. Maybe even someone in MCS's community = Better Business Bureau,
Chamber of Commerce, even the Major TV station, they sometimes have
consumer affairs reports – And this sounds like it would make a great
story. Where did you say MCS was, (wait a minute, let me look for that ad)
….. M.C.S. in Southfield, Michigan – right!?
(Wait a minute, let me check "PC USA"….)
… It's a subburb of Detroit, 16miles from the Motor City. Maybe, you
want someone from here to go over and RUB them Hard fer ya? What did you
say the guys name was… Archie? 🙂
Betty, I really started out with just a comment to ya both in mind, but
have directed more towards Peter, I guess. I'm going to post this one
twice, to be sure that Peter sees it – OK?
– Roy Pahnke –
Casper, Wyomin'
Peter & Betty
If MCS shipped (or supposedly shipped the product twice), would they not
probably be using UPS, or Fed Express and not the Postal Service.
Peter, you say your contact with MCS has been by phone & faxes. So far
the US postal service is not involved in this matter. This is not a matter
of postal fraud. This of course, is IMHO!?
Peter, you need to pressure the Visa bank and/or maybe some local
consumers affairs department or something that you have there in New
Zealand. Maybe even someone in MCS's community = Better Business Bureau,
Chamber of Commerce, even the Major TV station, they sometimes have
consumer affairs reports – And this sounds like it would make a great
story. Where did you say MCS was, (wait a minute, let me look for that ad)
….. M.C.S. in Southfield, Michigan – right!?
(Wait a minute, let me check "PC USA"….)
… It's a subburb of Detroit, 16miles from the Motor City. Maybe, you
want someone from here to go over and RUB them Hard fer ya? What did you
say the guys name was… Archie? 🙂
Seriously, Peter, from the other messages that I have read in this thread,
I think you are in trouble. (See message #7615 from Sylvain) I would go
public with this as much as possible. Contact the courts, get a Lawyer.
Good Luck,
– Roy Pahnke –
Casper, Wyomin'
Peter,
If you at any time got a letter from Visa or MCS regarding the 'lost'
order, the Postal service is involved. Mail fraud does not require that the
perpetrator mail anything, just that someone mailed something because of
the fraud.
As an example, in a local case (in which I was a juror) someone falsely
reported his companys car stolen, when in fact he gave it away to be
scrapped. Because of this report, the insurance company sent several
letters to the company. The accused sent no mail himself, but the charge
was Mail Fraud.
You do have options. Next time you talk to someone at MCS, inform them
that they could be charged with Mail fraud if some action is not taken. If
nothing else works contact a lawyer in that area, you would be supprised at
what a visit from a lawyer can do for your cause.
Dean
DKB Software
Thanks for your reply. I'll try the Postal service first and may try a
lawyer later on.
I've said this before, and I repeat it again, avoid MCS like the plague! I
ordered some hardware from them 2 years ago and never got (only $125). I
wrote to them, I called them, I even had a CIS user who lives nearby go
rattle their cage, nothing worked. I wrote a letter to AmigaWorld telling
them about the problem and advising them to stop publishing MCS ads. AW
wrote me an answer stating they had recieved lots of complaints about MCS
and that unfortunately MCS was under recievership so nothing could be done.
The worst was also the fact that AW was bound under a long term contract
with MCS, so that if the creditors wished to keep advertising, AW couldn't
refuse. I think something should be done about this, as it seriously
undermines AW's credibility, they should be able to get a court order.
Sylvain, Portage, Manitoba
Publishers exist to serve their advertisers, not their readers. I'd
suspect their contract isn't nearly as important a consideration as the ad
revenue they'd lose.
Sylvain,
Most of the time, a long-term contract like that has some escape clauses
built into it. I would expect, for instance, that fraud on the part of the
advertiser would release AW from having to carry their ads. Sounds to me
like someone's just lazy and doesn't want to be bothered with the possible
litigation.
Pete