SCSI Card for Tool Box??
37 messages in this thread
No – I disagree. What the Amiga needs, and very badly, is a replaceable
grpahics library. Write your CBM representative. As soon as we have that,
you will be able to run any gfx hardware you want, and the developers will
be able to provide "standard" applications for it. THe FireCracker should
suffice as a 24 bit board, unless it has access problems. I've been told
it's very slow to draw (I've only seen it with static images on it, so
don't know) but they may have been referring to render times. I hope so. If
it's hard to "get into", then it's not appropriate for intuition
activites… mind you i do NOT know this, I've jsut heard something that
MAY indicate it. Perhaps when they sell a few more we'll hear about it
here. Hey – does anyone here actually HAVE a firecracker?
FWIW, over on USENET Commodore had a post recently (+/- 3-5 weeks ago)
where they advertised positions for programmers with "device independent
graphics" experience. Perhaps you can ask one of the more astute
Usenetters, i.e. Larry Phillips about that post…
+ Phil +
Thanks for telling me – that's really good news. At least they may be
thinking about it. When I went to West Chester I made that point as
forcefully as possible w/o being nutz about it, but they just indicated
"not yet". This was a number of months ago, 5 perhaps.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben,
I'm sure you are aware what a tall order a device independant graphics
driver for the Amiga is, given how much the Amiga relies on its custom
graphics chips. I'm not saying that it will never happen, but it is an
order of magnatude harder than doing it on the MACS was. Where is Jay
Miner when you need him…
-Jason-
It has nothing to do with the custom chips…. it has to do with the way
that the OS is written. In fact, since there are so many different modes in
the Amiga's custom chips, a DIG driver would help you display reasonable
things in peculiar modes like dual playfield, etc. The complexity of the
environment cries out for DIG – the only _real_ problem is that such a
thing will cause a very significant loss of gfx speed. :^(
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben, I seem to remember seeing something about a replacement
graphics.library for HAM-E. Is that still happening, and will it do most of
what DIG would do without the slowdown?
— Ethan
It is not DIG, and for that reason it should not slow things down any more
than required to write the extra data. It is on the back burner, though;
CBM is being helpful, which is good, but we're just so darn busy trying to
keep up with the HAM-E activity that we've got to pick and choose our
active projects right now. These include several in-house software efforts,
Image Processing program and a HAM paint program, and our 9600 baud fax
system, and of course maintainance on other products as best we can fit it
in.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben,
I saw the 9600 baud FAX at AMiExpo and it was impressive. The only thing
that was unlikable about it was the Modem appearence (which I realize Black
Belt has little to say about). It would be nice if you couls work out
better (smaller, nicer looking) packaging for the modem, but that is a
minor problem. I've forgotten about how the receive end is going to work –
was that to FAX machine or to Amiga IFF?
wmc
Amiga IFF, or compressed fax file, or to pronter. :^) er, printer.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben,
Is there a release date set yet for the FAX modem?
wmc
No, there is not. We hope that it will be soon, but the programmer (well,
his wife) just had a new baby, and that has impacted things rather
severely.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
I'd vote for a DIG driver that didn't know a thing about bastardizations
like dual-playfield modes. Oh, sure, it's cute for graphics hacks and
games, to put it redundantly. Loss of graphics speed? In what? In more
graphics hacks, or in serious programs? If the Amiga had a real DIG
graphics system, it becomes a lot easier to write high-level programs.
Right now, look at the kludges that become NECESSARY in order to write a
program that tries to represent real-world aspect ratios on the various
screens: low res, medium, interlace and high, A2024, Wb big screens, you
name it. Then imagine if the Amiga had a way to – gasp – dither pen colors
if they weren't available in the direct palette. It took Gold Disk three
years to drop that into Pro Draw, and meanwhile, anyone else who wants to
do that has to re-invent that wheel. As a concession, I'd support a DIG way
to inquire what display is available, and what modes it can do, and to drop
into that mode, and a way to get back…
But what if Ben's new version of the HAM-E board uses dual playfield to
get the 640 resolution 18-bit HAM?
— Ethan
It doesn't. <grin> n
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
It was a good try!!!!!!
— Ethan
Yep, sounds like good news, but not being very astute about the
programming/business side of things, I have no idea what type of time frame
to actual product that it represents.
+ Phil +
Phil,
Don't get your hopes up. CBM's display work is, as I get the rumors,
primarily for support of high-res color on the Unix platform. The A500s
will stay the way they are. I believe that CBM is about as interested in
supporting the "in between machine" (A2000/A2500/accelerated A2000) as it
is in supporting rotten apples (no pun intended). So display upgraades
beyond the 2320 are out.
wmc
hmm… While I can't say what I know, or at least think I know, I can say
that your rumors don't jive with my info… My personal opinion – We wil
see a graphic upgrade from CBM by summer…although I don't know what the
costs will be to existing owners. -Lou
Lou,
I sure hope you are right (and that the upgrade is more significant than
letting A500/A2000 users have access to the 2 meg Agnus).
wmc
Wayne,
I don't know where you get your information or your rumors – but they just
don't agree with the ones I get. Commodore is counting on the Amiga for
its immediate future, and is putting great effort into improving it.
Betty
OK Betty –
No more beating around the bush – here's the problem: there can be no
adequate support without a mission defintion. Think of any endevour,
personal, business, military – any aspect of life) that does not have a
clearly defined mission or goal. Much handwaving takes place, energy gets
expended an no progress is made.
Like it or not, the A500 has by default assumed the mission of C64/128
replacement for game playing and light household computing. The A3000 has
the mission of cracking the Unix educational market and filling the vacuum
left by Sun's exit of the 680×0 workstation market.
Now, what is the mission of the A2000? When you think about it, certainly
in terms of 3rd party vendor support, it is THE most versatile Amiga. But
CBM has let it sorta flounder around trying to find its niche and hasn't
taken the lead in "raising the child". No leadership, no mission
defintion, no goal, no advertising, no sales and all of a sudden no
machine! (I seriously doubt most of us will step up to unix for our basic
home/single user semi-professional use – its just too expensive.) Look at
IBM and MAC ads. They are purposely targetted to take any niche AMiga might
have a potential in gaining away from CBM. And, as usual, CBM is handing
over the high ground by virtue of their lack of action (or action so
conservative that large numbers of people have never seen an AMiga ad).
This is the crucial point at which CBM should be going for broke in
establishing their credibility in the single user home/small business arena
even if the emphasis is DTP/Video/Graphics. There is enough happening in
the technical arena that any slight advantage Amiga has in these areas will
be gone by next year.
Its now or forever the fragile machine on the edge of extinction.
wmc
OK, you convinced me, "turn on the gas."
Unfortunately Wayne, there might just be some truth to what you are saying.
Part of the "problem" with the Amiga is that it is NOT a niche machine (or
at least it certainly doesn't have to be one). From a hardware standpoint
the Amiga 2000/2500 is about ideal for any task. I doubt that your "doom
and gloom" is quiet as bad as you make it out to be though. IF CBM can get
the Unix box off the ground in a big way (and it does look as if that will
happen), then the Amiga will get a big boost from yet another professional
area. Some of the Sun, Apollo/HP, HP, and Vax people are already pretty
enthusiastic Amiga users. There is a rather large group of people out
there that use such workstations that do not realize that they can have a
home machine with similar performance at a very good price. When they
start seeing and using Ami's……….
73, bill
The strange thing is I laugh at my friends and their dinosaur IBM clones,
but I buy A 20 Meg drive for $500 and they get the same thing for $250!
They buy the VGA boards,internal modems,A mouse,etc, but the Amiga still
blows them away! The world needs to know how powerful the Amiga is.
Eric;
I agree with that… about the only way that is going to happen is when
people actually see and use them in their jobs. People are so used to down
right lying in advertising that they are not likely to believe much other
than their own experience.
73, bill
Eric — what computer was that 20MB hard drive for? The A500 or the
A2000? If it was the A2000, you got ripped off, or at least you didn't shop
around. If that was the A500, of course it costs that much. When you bought
the A500 you knew that it was a less-expandable Amiga. You are paying extra
for an external casing and power supply.
There is also another difference: what quality of HD are the two (the
$250 and $500)? How fast.
— Ethan
Bill,
Thanks for the optomistic slant on things – I hope you are right! What
would be really ideal is if I get a chance to have to bring an inexpensive
Unix WS into the job – then I get a 3000, also set up the ADOS and show
off some of the "home" capabilities like the multi-media IBM is pushing!
wmc
Wayne –
Your comments about mission definitions for the various portions of the
Amiga line are valid in my mind. I prefer this thread to the one you got
going over on AmigaUser. I agree that it would be nice for CBM to come up
with a clear definition of the mission of the A2000.
Jeff Schweiger
Jeff,
The other thread is partly due to the fact that I'm bummed out at having to
spend my own money on a PC for compatability with the person who is now
purchasing my time and the current bridgeboad doesn't offer the necessary
power (386/386sx needed). If the BB with 386 and vga existed I could get
an office Ami and "subversivly" introduce the "establishment" to Amiga
multi-tasking, programming (in fact the project has several 68000 cpus
involved as keyboard processors for avionics display boxes) and multi-media
presentation – something they lay out big bucks to buy Macs for!!! MAKES ME
MAD AS *@#!
wmc
Wayne –
I understand your frustration with the bridgeboard issue, and agree that
Commodore should be addressing that issue (lack of a 386 bridgeboard).
While not totally acceptible (and not very cost efficient), have you looked
at the option of using the XT bridgeboard with an accelerator? I know that
Ron Troy uses the XT bridgeboard/SOTA 386i combination.
Jeff Schweiger
Wayne — question: you say that your business requires 386s but you also
said that they spend the big bucks on Macs. What???
Also, ask Ron about using an add-on board (the SOTA) to get a 386
bridgeboard.
— Ethan
Ack, cough, gasp… so near Christmas and so much doom and gloom…
Lets look at Commodore from yet another prespective.
First off, this year Commodore has introduced several very significant
products. Lets hark back shall we? Commodore introduced (and actually
shipped) the Amiga 3000. Commodore introduced (and actually shipped) an
excellent multimedia tool. Commodore introduced (and actually shipped) the
A2320 display enhancer card.
That is pretty impressive for a company that is in the shape Commodore is
in. Rather impressive I would say. Now look what is over the horizon! We
have AmigaDOS 2.0, we have a full _complete_ implementation of Unix System
V release IV that is getting _excellent_ reviews from the Universities that
actually have it, and by the magazines that have seen preview models. Heck
you can even order one NOW. Commodore retail called us Wednesday to tell
us the pricing information.
Now do you really think Commodore should also have a new megapixel, 64
terrabyte custom chip set? And spend the $$$ necessary to push the same
old A2000 iron they have had for three years?
You ask what the mission of the 2000 is. For once in the 2000s life it has
a mission. Its mission is to provide a relatively inexpensive entry
platform for multimedia, video and education. People can get into a A2000
relatively inexpensively and _upgrade_ till there wallet has run dry! That
includes making the little guy run Unix.
Commodore _must_ now deliever the inexpensive Unix solution to the
Universities, and further continue development of the A3xxx platform.
Commodore is not spending the money and time on pushing the A2000 as it
will sell itself, when the folks come into the store.
I would like to see them advertise with something really gutsy. Come out
with an advertisement about the Amiga 3000, with the tag line "Now that you
have tried the rest, why don't you get a REAL computer?"
Amiga disappear now? Less likely than ever; especially with the products
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like the Toaster, AmigaVision and Unix.
At least that is my opinion…
-mark=
You're right: The A2000 is floundering. THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT! The
A2000 is not as important anymore. There is the 2000HD as a kind of
intermediary, but I expect there'll be some kind of A1500 soon and then the
only use of the 2000 will be expandability. I expect it to be phased out.
— Ethan
I must be missing something here.
You expect the 2000 to be phased out. But, every 2000HD, 2500, etc., *IS*
a 2000, with appropriate extras added. Commodore's assembly line is geared
to push 2000s out. If they phase out the 2000, then the 2000HD and 2500
must go too, and they ARE selling bunches of them. (This doesn't even
consider the 2000 is the basic machine, and folks not in the idle rich
class can purchase it, enjoy an Amiga, and upgrade to one of the higher
level machines as economics permit by simply buying the appropriate card.)
A 1500 level machine would be an entirely new machine, and the assembly
lines would have to be established for it alone.
Perhaps Commodore will add a 1500 level machine in the future, but I don't
think I would hold my breath waiting for the 2000 to be phased out.
Bill, K3OZM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not predicting the A2000 to disappear any time
soon. But I think it'll go before the A500 does. One possible course of
action for Commodore is to come out with the tower 3500 and a new A1500
which is smaller, i.e. cheaper, yet reasonably expandable. Perhaps it could
be built with the A3000 case and the A3000 expansion daughterboard. This
would minimize costs even more. Then they'd drop the A2000 LINE entirely.
— Ethan
That would be a crying shame- and potentially the downfall of the Amiga if
it were true. Already lots of other platforms have leapfrogged us in terms
of display resolution/quantization. I was under the impression that the
A2410 U. of Lowell card was the de-facto A3000UX standard for graphics-
isn't that a more-or-less finished product? At least according to the
posts I see on Usenet, that is the direction Commodore is taking there- at
least in the short term.
The A2410 appears to be done. Most likely it will be released when the
UX is officially released at January UniForum.