#24 bit graphics
67 messages in this thread
To anybody out there who has used a 24 bit framebuffer/graphics board. I
need to find out what's available and how good it performs. None of the
Amiga mags have covered these yet, except in passing, and none have made a
price/performance comparison yet. Anybody have some feedback?
Thanks,
Andrew HObbs
There is only one 24 bit framebuffer available at this time; that is
Impulses "FireCracker".
We offer an 18 bit device, and NewTek offers a composite device which they
bill as 24 bit, although it is composite NTSC only. DCTV from Digital
Creations is also supposed to ship right about now, it may even be out like
yesterday, and is also a composite device billed as 24 bit.
I'm not going to give you a long spiel, because I'm rather biased :^) but I
think we do quite well. Prices range from approximate 1500$ range
(FireCracker, Toaster) down to $300 (our device).
Good luck. You should get some specific answers here.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Thanks Ben! I hope to get some good results here. I had DCTV on order,
but then saw a non favorable review in a mag. Now I'm kicking myself! I'll
probably reorder it. I have seen HAM-E, and I'm impressed, but I'm looking
for something that'll let me do 24 bit graphics, animations using Imagine.
Later,
Andrew Hobbs
Andrew, HAM-E will let you do 24 bit graphics animations using Imagine, and
furthermore, it'll make MUCH better images than DCTV could ever do.. it's
RGB, you see. If you turn the HAM-E output into composite, well then it
looks about like DCTV does. :^) Bit it will certainly animate as well as,
or better than, DCTV using Imagine.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
WHOA….. From everything I've read, HAM-E is a 18 bit graphic board. Also
I wish to output to composite….I also want to be able to digitize. Now
I'll admit that since you've put out HAM-E that you could probably tell me
why I've read it is a 18 bit system.
What I want to do is create 24 bit animations and output them onto either S
VHS or Hi8 tape. That'd be easy with DCTV. Rather more involved with
Firecracker or with HAM-E. I've already got a 20" monitor/tv to use with
DCTV. Now I'm just waiting for it to ship.
Thanks anyway,
Andrew
If you want S-Vhs or Hi-8 it's NOT easy with DCTV as it only has composite
out
If you use the Ham-E you can attach a true S-encoder (around $120) and get
true S-video Resolution (over 400 lines when recorded, if you use DCTV
throuh compsite expect 230 lines) and better color (reds and blues will
smear much less). Digitizing? Well DCTV does indeed have the advantage
there, but if you already have digiview, you can use it with the Ham-E
directly with Black Belt's included software. BTW I have an NTSC and
S-video encoder, S-video is much better to my Hi-8 than composite from DCTV
(they let me record direct from it at a show) and I have some of the same
pictures that they had at a show rendered in Ham-E , Ham-E wins hands down
in Hi-8 format.
BEN Leigh's Computer's
Andrew. The HAM-E presents a mix of 18 bit and 24 bit pixels in it's
highest number of colors mode. Our renderer will generate images that are
visually, on an RGB monitor, darn close to, if not exactly the same as, a
full 24 bit system.
Once you go to composite, this will make NO difference. DCTV is not, never
was, and never will be a 24 bit output system, and _–> neither is anything
else when you go to composite!!!
The HAM-E can generate every bit as nice an image as DCTV can, and supports
numerous types of operations that DCTV cannot.
S-VHS is also not available from DCTV, as far as I know. Only composite.
You can go S-VHS with the HAM-E, for instance with the DigiFEX VIP encoder,
about $100 or so. And the HAM-E S-VHS output is _far_ better than the DCTV
composite output.
Just so you know.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
I have been reading about the HAM-E online. Is it a card or what? I have a
DCTV on order. Correct will be on order until I cancel monday.
have an Thanks Greg Tyner 73527,2215
/exit
The HAM-E is an external unit, in just the same way that DCTV is an
external unit. Before you cancel, you need to ask yourself if you require
the digitizer that DCTV provides. If you do, there is no comparable
facility built-in to the HAM-E. We _suggest_ the use of a DigiView, which
will digitizer far better images than DCTV can (and we can _show_ them to
you that way), but there is a catch – DCTV can take images from a composite
(still frame, like a camera) source, while DigiView can only take images
from a monochrome source.
It can provide you with very nice RGB images on your current monitor,
assuming only that you are not using a VGA-only type of monitor with a
flicker fixer or the ICD FFV.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Thanks for the information. I have Digiview. Just thought of something,
will HAM-E increase colors on DigiView?
The HAM-E will render images to the 21 bit precision that DigiView handles
internally. The images look so much better than the stock DigiView HAM,
it's almost funny to see.
After a few images, it's *very* unlikely you'll ever save anoth er DigiView
HAM image unless you need to give it to someone w/o a HAM-E.
ALso, you don't have to save the DV image. The HAM-E will render the image
right out of memory without an intervening file.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Thanks Ben. I need to know this stuff for future reference.
Later,
Andrew
Perhaps you can enlighten me, but I've recently regarded these distinctions
between "24 bit," "21 bit" and NTSC vs. RGB as somewhat pointless… For
many video-oriented Amiga users, isn't NTSC the be-all-and-end-all output
format? Even if your HAM-E is spitting our RGB, many users – not all, of
course – are planning on using someone's RGB to NTSC converter to lay it
down to video. I can imagine people who don't want or don't desire any
contact with NTSC. For example, if HAM-E support was direct in ASDG's
scanner stuff, the images would look much better in preview in HAM-E than
HAM or NTSC. How do you assess this split between pure RGB users and NTSC
users? Are most HAM-E users going to NTSC, or do they avoid it like the
plague?
Distinctions between 24 bit, 21 bit, 18 bit (all RGB) and NTSC are not
pointless, in my view. There are several reasons. First, 24 bit output is a
specific level of accuracy; much like RMS, IHF, Peak, Instantaneous Peak
power of the old stereo ad claims, where the number of "watts" a stereo had
was the [ill-informed] consumers index of what stereo to buy; where the
definition of "watts" was being quite loosely dropped on (initially)
unsuspecting consumers.
24 bit accuracy indicates that you can develop 256 _distinct_ grey levels;
it means that you have a rather large dynamic range for "difficult" colors
such as flesh tones; it also implies that the color representation of the
"device" is good enough that the resulting images are capable of
representing color better than you can percieve it. As a marketing line, 24
bit color means to the consumer that they are getting "the best".
Composite output, far from being the best, is nearly the worst of all –
although it has a large (approximately 20 bit) dynamic range for color, it
has _horrible_ dynamic color change response, so bad that _anybody_ can
spot color errors in almost any image that has any red or blue in it. It is
in fact virtually impossible with an accurate studio monitor, aligned to
spec and as noise free as possible analog NTSC encoding/decoding equipment
to resolve 24 bits of color information from a signal that is only a few
tenths of a volt and mashed in there with numerous other pices er, pieces,
of information all running at very high speed. So when NewTek and Digital
Creations say 24 bit, it's _wrong_. If we leave the studio with it's
engineers and vector scopes, the odds of an NTSC system getting anywhere
NEAR 24 bit accuracy go out the window. Put it on tape, into a standard TV,
and it's all over.
24 bit RGB is easily accomplished, with non-encoded data and _3_ separate
lines to carry it on, with a total amplitude of one volt for all the data.
[continued]
[continuation]
The number of our customers that use the HAM-E to go to video seems (by our
best guess) to be about 5%. I have long suspected that the "go to video"
segment of the market was small, and the "wanna good image" segment was
large. CBM pushes video hard as can be, and the mags all jump on the
bandwagon, but no one I have ever had as an "Amiga Buddy" in Florida or
here (mind you, there are only about 30 Amigas in Glasgow, not counting the
ones Black Belt owns) ever went to video at all. That would include about
100 people, at a guess.
The HAM-E produces a beautiful image that is far better than anything the
Amiga can do by itself, so it is inevitible that people who _do_ want to go
to video will use it that way; and as I carefully point out, once you do,
you have composite quality, which is to say, yech. :^)
I hope you can imagine people who avoid composite like the plague. I'm one.
I want HDTV, preferably RGB from camera to monitor, and as high a spacial
resolution as I can get. I'm not holding my breath, of course. :^)
One final issue. An RGB signal, by it's very nature, can change from one
color to another color (any color to any color) in one pixels time, with a
completely sharp edge, to the limit of the monitors dot pitch and the
output DAC speed. A composite signal can make approximately 100 color
changes per line of video, max, period, no matter what. Brightness changes
are much better, and achieve almost 300/line. The thing that saves
composite from being useless is that these 100 changes can occur anywhere
on a line, with the single limit that they have to be about 1/100th away
horizontally from the _last_ color change on that same line. Try drawing a
blue box on a red backround in Toaster Paint and then render it to the
toaster's output. You'll see an "artifact" that is approximately 1% of the
toal line length, and ugly as segment registers.
An RGB device, like the FireCracker or the HAM-E will render this to an RGB
monitor perfectly. And _that_ is why they are superior.
[continued]
[continuation 2]
We want the buying public to know about these issues. We feel we have a
product that produces a superior image; it offers many advantages that are
not found together in any other product; Nothing else provides blitter
object (BOB) compatible operation, a deep color space (18 bit, 24 in
critical places) Amiga screen environment compatibility (up, down, front,
back, over, and under, all using Intuition std gadgets and mouse ops), and
256 level grey scale, and color register cycle, glow and pong. All of which
is backed up by free software upgrades, available source code, and a
rapidly expanding user base.
If eveyr product out there goes on about 24 bit display quality when they
do NOT have any such thing, then there goes our ability to get the message
to the consumer. A clear exposition of the issues will harm no one company
that has been honest about output resolution, limitations, and software
capabilities.
Black Belt is a small player in a market that has some very well funded,
heavily madison-avenue type marketing types emplaced in it. Both DCTV and
the M.A.S.T. people have had ads out – and not only are the ads deceptive,
they didn't even have any product! The toaster is a long awaited FX unit,
and it does what it's supposed to do in that department pretty well for
it's rpice. Lightwave is a wonder. Toaster Paint is (IMHO) a stopgap hack
that doesn't work very well. I've used it quite a bit, and in contrast to a
real 24 bit paint, it's not even a contender. We want people to know that
we offer a solid solution with high quality results.
It's more than annoying when the others in the market use technical
specifications as buzzwords. IT robs them of their meaning. User sees what
they are told are 24 bit gfx on DCTV or Toaster… they thing they know
what they will see when they look at a HAM-E, FireCracker, or ColorBurst.
It's not so – and that takes it from annoying to deceptive.
Bottom line, I think that most of the Amiga users out there never look
twice at "video". I think they run in RGB, animations, multimedia
presentations and all. How you gonna interact with a video tape,
I think your point about full blitter operation is a major argument in
favor of HAM-E. Since the unit gets its data straight from normal Amiga
screen memory, you can run any animation, using any normal program like
Dpaint III or ShowAnim, and get full-speed animation with much better
quality than normal HAM mode.
The "real" framebuffers, as far as I know, have their own memory, so
blitter (or any) animation is out of the question. Right?
Blaq!
Charles, nothing against HAM-E but just to make sure you know, DC-TV
also uses chip-ram and can be animated with your standard page-flipper
program. Most real "frame buffers" have their own memory, like you say.
— Ethan
But you can't "Blit" an object easily over DCTV's signal I bet.
BEN Leigh's Computer's
You can Blit full screens but I have no idea about images. It might be
possible, but you never know.
— Ethan
We shall see. BTW folks DCTV has been DELAYED again until after X-mas
accordeing to the letter they sent my distributor. When will this elusive
unit be available to the general public.
BEN Leigh's Computer's
I don't know what's doing with DCTV. I gave up and went with HAM-E. 😎
— Ethan
P.S. If I have a problem I know just who to flame! %^)
I'm glad I didn't wait either!
BEN Leigh's Computer's
I thought they were supposed to ship last week?
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
According to Mike at Micro-Pace, or shall I say according to the letter he
read to me FROM the DCTV people, nope. They said there was a problem
recieving a crucial part from overseas and it would not ship until after
X-Mas.
BEN Leigh's Computer's
That is correct, except for DCTV, which does the same thing we do in the
sense that they get thir info direct from the screen. However, and I have
this right from the mares mouth (DCTV developers) DCTV's composite encoding
causes pixels very far away from the pixel you're interested to have an
effect on the current local pixel – similar to HAM mode, but worse,
_according to them_. That might make blitter animation pretty rough. We'll
have to wait and see. Blitter ops with the HAM-E can be seen by anyone,
even w/o the device. Just DL the paint software and cut a brush. :^)
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't one important limitation of Ham-E
is it's limitation to lo-res images?
FL
Current HAM-E units can display images up to 384×480 pixels on an NTSC
machine, more vertical resolution on a PAL system (560 lines or
thereabouts). A hardware upgrade is in the works that will bring the output
pixel rate up to 768 maximum, the same pixel rate that the AMiga sends
pixels at in hi-res. Old units will be upgradable for the same difference
in price that the new, hires units will sell for.
The current resolution is the same as the AMiga's normal 12 bit HAM mode.
An important point to know, since you can't see a HAM-E thru your modem, is
that increasing the bits in the color space has very similar effects to
increasing the bits in the spacial resolution. Images become much richer,
deeper, and – even though there are the same number of pixels – more
detailed. This is a well known effect.
Although we don't yet have hires output, the price difference between us
and the only available alternative (FireCracker) is huge, and the
difference in output quality is not.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben,
. . "increasing the bits in the color space has very similar effects to
increasing the bits in the spacial resolution."
And how! It is amazing how much better (some) VGA images of 320 x 200 look
compared to HAM of the same resolution. I have assumed that the smooth
transitions in the colors of the VGA were the reason. Although the VGA can
display only 256 colors compared to 4096, it can draw from a huge palette
and therefore render the image without the 'posterizing' effect seen in
Amiga HAM. I have seen some of these low resolution VGA images and at first
thought they were of 'photographic' quality. They were probably selected
for the potential to display well, but that does not diminish their
effectiveness. Increasing the actual resolution is of course an
improvement, but the smooth transition of the 'gray scale' factor makes an
amazing difference.
I can't wait to see a HAM-E image, and would really like to see the higher
resolution version.
Rich
What is really nice is that the HAM-E offers quite a bit more spatial
resolution than those 320×200 VGA images; and it offers a MUCH larger
palette (16 million colors as opposed to the quarter million VGA has).
And that's just the VGA compatible REG mode. The HAM-E mode is just plain
stunning when it's fed good source material. Of course, that last caveat
applies to any graphics system.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
After seeing the same pic on DCTV and Ham-E, DCTV seems to suffer from that
more than Ham-E. I Bought my Ham-E after seeing DCTV. They claim Hi-res but
have NEVER given me a pixel count when I asked. BTW frank the Ham-E can do
super bitmaps, that may interest you in your printing biz.
BEN Leigh's Computer's
[continuation 3]
Arghhh! Stupid editor truncated the last message. I think I had the point
across, though. Hopefully, this provides the enlightenment you wanted.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben,
I applaud both your product and your desire to clarify some of the
misleading Amiga video advertizing. I am far from knowlagable about all
these framebuffers, but I have some questions for you.
With all this talk about 24 bit graphics, I think it needs to be
clarified a little. Some of the companies are claiming that they are 24bit
boards because they can display 16+ mil colors, you claim that they are not
because they can only display the 16 mil to NTSC which can't display them
acurately.
As I read it there are two schools of thought on the Composite vs. RGB
output scheme. Basically you output to RGB which is a higher quality
medium than NTSC, and you reason that if you need NTSC you can convert down
to that standard, and still have the same quality as your competitors.
Your competitors say that since the final medium is going to be NTSC you
might as well develope in that medium instead of getting uncertain results
from developing in RGB and converting down.
I will address the second issue first, I think you are right to go to
RGB as that gives the end-user the option of what they wan't there finnal
medium to be, where many of the other companies don't give you a choice. I
do however, think its fine that the toaster is a NTSC device only since all
its functions/software are targeted specifically for video and to my
knowlage they don't try to sell it for any other purpose.
However, as to the 24 bit issue, I tend to think that you are both
misleading. In my mind 24 bit means just what it says, for each pixil you
display the color of that pixil can be discribed by a series of 24 zero's
or one's. As I understand it, you don't have a product that can discribe
every pixil on the screen in 24 bits. I am not even sure that you can
discribe every pixil on the screen with 18 bits of color.
Now, some of the other so-called "24-bit" boards can discribe each pixil
in 24 bits of memory. But, you rightly point out that they don't support a
method to acurately display them. While, I agree that it may
[ MORE ]
Jason, to my memory Ben has never claimed HAM-E to be 24 bit, just 18
bit HAM mode.
As to the debate whether a device which outputs Composite NTSC can call
itself 24-bit, it is my opinion that they can, as long as they make it
clear what kind of signal they output. The result is improved if the
computations are based around a 24 bit image.
— Ethan
[ continuation ]
mean that you have a better, more usable product, I still think it means
that they have more of a right to advertize 24-bits than you do. Since,
(at least in my mind) the term 24-bit refers specifically to memory and
only implies that it can be acuratley displayed.
Please keep in mind that I am just giving you my (admittedly) uneducated
view of the market and just want you to set me straight.
-Jason-
From what I've seen (the same picture rendered on both DCTV and HAM-E) the
Ham-E's output is much more accurate(the picture was the Targa Eagle) to
the original data, than DCTV (thier pic (DCTV's) was blurred and the
Truevision logo was illegible, while Ham-E's was clear and legible).
BEN Leigh's Computer's
Good points, all. We think we can refer to our hardware as 24 bit the way
that VGA is 18 bit; As for describing each pixel on the screen accurately
in 18 bits, that depends on the image. We can (usually, like 99% of the
time) do it for over 95% of the pixels. Some images are described
perfectly.
In addition, in our 18 bit mode, you can use up to 480 distinct _full 24
bit_ color registers in the same screen. That provides a lot of descriptive
power. It's not full 24 bit, and it has one big drawback; it requires a lot
of computation up front for the best image, similar to Amiga 12 bit HAM but
more intensive yet.
Finally, we do the best we can to utilize the 24 bit registers, specialized
dither techniques, and the hardware we've created to render a full 24 bit
image… You can only do this in RGB, because in NTSC you don't have access
to the data on a pixel by pixel basis. Does it work, I hear you ask?
Extremely well. We have sample images that you can render using the "pure"
18 bit mode. No registers involved at 24 bit, only 18, and no dither. You
can clearly see faint contouring in the yellows and greens. Change to the
24 bit mode, and bingo – no contouring is visible. The color data is now
displayed smoothly across what were 18 bit boundries, clearly visible
(although MUCH fainter than 12 bit, like Amiga HAM).
Don't fall into the trap of thinking that because the HAM-E uses a HAM
mode, it has the same artifacting problems that Amiga HAM does. Amiga ham
has only 16 fixup regs available to our 480 max; and Amiga HAM is 12 bits,
too. Big Difference!
HAM is hardware data compression – it is a form that _can_ lose data; you
can easily describe a theoretical situation that the HAM-E could not
render. Happily, that is not a situation that is common in image work. Best
thing I can suggest is look at one, or call us at (800) TK-AMIGA and have a
brochure sent to you. Look at the pics. I think you'll be surprised.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
You can always go to S-video (S-Vhs, Hi-8, ED-Beta)wich have FAR superior
color to NTSC.
BEN Leigh's Computer's BTW this can only be currently done with the Ham-E
or Firecracker without losing more signal (once you are in NTSC it stays in
NTSC no matter were you go).
Ben, you forgot about the Mimetics FrameBuffer, or did something happen
to it? Also, I think that the Targa board should also be included because
it can be used via bridgeboard and ImageLink from Active Circuits.
— Ethan
You're right. I did forget them both. Mimetics, I think, is a dead product
with the advent of DCTV. The Targa is a dead product with the advent of the
FireCracker, COlorBurst, and HAM-E units. Both are so far out of the price
range that it's too difficult to justify the money; and both offer less
speed performance than any of the alternatives; and speaking of money, both
are too expensive.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ummm, excuse me, but are you saying that the Mimetics Framebuffer is no
longer available? Amazing Computing printed a complete review on it this
year.
No, I am saying that it is being eclipsed by other market forces. It's
display quality is similar to, or less than, DCTV; and DCTV is MUCHO
cheaper. Same for Targa – it's still there, but the FireCracker is cheaper,
for the same performance.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
I went back and looked at the message again; perhaps you were referring to
the sentence where I said that there is only one 24 bit framebuffer, the
FireCracker, and you think because I didn't include the Mimetics board it
was gone or something… not so. I didn't include the mimetics board
because it, like the other composite solutions, does not offer full 24 bit
output, and that is what we were talking about. THey advertise it, like
Digital Creations and NewTek, but not _one_ of those actually can display
24 bit images. Only the FireCracker can do that; in 1991, early 1991 if you
believe their press, M.A.S.T. will also have a full 24 bit product for the
Amiga. Nice one, too. Till then, only Impulses product can provide pure
unadulterated 24 bit output. The HAM-E cannot do it. It can come _real_
close, in fact close enough so that you may not be able to tell, but it's
not 24 bit, and it sure is harder to work with computationally.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
I just went through and read the furor my simple request for info set off!
8) My data was incorrect, and you and the others set me to rights. I
appreciate that! It looks like I will have to go with a RGB output system
then. I will have to see your HAM-E and a Firecracker in action, and make
my decision. I'd hate to have to justify the Firecracker, but it might be
the way for me to go.
Thanks again for everything! Your messages have been very informative.
Maybe I'm not quite the ignorant fool I started.
Later,
Andrew Hobbs
If you are in NYC from Thursday – Monday give me a call, I usually bring in
my Ham-E unit (but call just in case). I have MANY demo pics from
BlackBelt, myself, and some of my customers, I even have a few simply anims
and hopefully will have some Imagine Anims, from a good customer of mine
:).
BEN Leigh's Computer's
Alas and alack I'm stuck here in Norfolk! Yech! I would like to take a
look at your HAM-E though. It looks like I'll be going with Firecracker24
though. I'm trying to arrange to get the FC and 8 meg for a total of 10 by
January. Fingers crossed. I do appreciate all the info about 24 bit
graphics though!
Later,
Andrew
No problem.
BEN Leigh's Computer's
Lack of information makes no one a fool, unless they insist on it after
being corrected. :^) The FireCracker is the system of choice when 2 things
are not an object. (1) money, and (2) speed.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
I,ve been reading all the talk about HAM-E, and have a few questions. Does
it work with a 3000 in "Flicker Fixer mode", and can it display the 18 bit
imiges I get from my JX-100. Thanks for any info.
Rick
It can display the 18 bit image very well indeed; it does not work in FF
mode with any deinterlaced Amiga signal. That goes for the MicroWay FF, the
ICD FFV, the CBM deinterlacer board and 3000 deinterlacer. It is a standard
video rate product, and attaches at the 23 pin RGB port, which is the only
place on the outside of the computer where the signals we need to operate
exist.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
You mean it won't work if I hit the "FF Disable" switch on the back of my
machine, my monitor has to be hooked up to th other port? Also I saw your
last message about upgrading to a 640 pixil version. Will it still be 18
bits deep? Will it be anything like Dyna-Rez Where the machine can do
nothing else but display the pic.
Thanks
Rick
Exit
It will be either 18 or 24 bits deep – most HAM-E pics are a mixture of the
two pixel depths.
It will be nothing like DynaSHow – the Amiga is free to multitask normally,
no problem, when ANY kind of HAM-E image is shown. HAM-E images do not
involve any software tricks or loading of the processor – when you show a
HAM-E picture, you're putting only the load on your system that a normal
Amiga hi-res image would.
All of the translation and real-time image decompression is done by the
HAM-E hardware… NOT the processor.
The HAM-E must, without any exceptions at all, be attached to the Amiga's
23 pin RGB port. It cannot work on the FF port, because there are a number
of signals that are not present there, notable the RGBI bits.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Two more questions. What's the max res HAM-E works with now? 320 X 200?,
320 X 400? When you do the upgrade what will the max res be?
Rick
Current max res is 384×480 in an NTSC system, 384×560 in a PAL system, and
it will be 768×480 in NTSC and 768×560 in PAL when the upgrade becomes
available.
Hmmm. Well, for 1 I'm going financing. And 2 I really don't need 24 bit
anims but 24 bit stills. So much for the (1) money, and (2) speed! 8)
Thanks for everything!
Andrew
Andrew,
You may want to check out Black Belts HAM-E board. While not 24-bit, it
does support 18-bits. Check out the AMIGAVENDOR Black Belt forum, they have
good support and can answer any question you have.
Thanks for the response, but I'm looking at 24 bit for use with Imagine.
Later!
Andrew eixt
The HAM-E has some advantages and some limitations, it depends what you
want it for. HAM-E is very inexpensive and gives RGB output. It is
perfectly compatible. The disadvantages are that the resolution is only 320
horizontal, and that 18 bit is a HAM mode.
— Ethan
It's 384 in overscan, _and_ we'll be going to 640/768 in Jan/Feb.
Also, that the 18 bit is a ham mode is correct, but it is a _far_ better
ham mode (speaking now of HAM artifacts, not about color res although
that's better too :^) than the Amiga's native ham mode.
Have you seen a HAM-E running yet, Ethan?
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
I would like to see one, but haven't yet. After finals are over and
AFTER Christmas shopping 8), I'll go and look at the Toaster, HAM-E and
DCTV and make up my mind.
How will you be going to 640 horiz? Taking two frames instead of two
pixels?
— Ethan
Nope. One frame, full blitter compatibility. It's sneaky, like the rest of
the design. :^)
You'll see what it involves when we release it – until then, we're staying
mute, so that this particular advance only appears on our hardware, at
least at first.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben,
Will the 640/768 change be an "easy upgrade" for anybody that currently
owns a HAM-E?
Lloyd
Pretty easy. You send it to us, we install no charge. Price will be the
difference between the "new" HAM-E and the "old" HAM-E.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben,
Can HAM-E be used with a mulitisynch monitor so that your 640/768 res mode
could be flicker-free? Also, is this higher resolution a hardware or
software update?
Thanks,
<<< Michael Shea >>>>
<<< 76665,3360 >>>>
Yes, it can be used with a multi sync, no it won't be flicker free. It's
standard video rates. There is no 24 bit Flicker Fixer on the market; and
since we take our data directly from the AMiga's memory, we _have_ to run
at the same rate as the Amiga.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben,
Say, that HiRes HAM-E mode sounds mighty appealing. I regret that I've
had very little opportunity to actually _use_ my HAM-E; a still-ongoing
series of hardware problems, coupled with a heavy workload, has kept me in
virtual Amiga computing limbo for the past few months. 8^(
I think I told you awhile back that I'd tweaked my HAM-E out of
calibration and so was going to try locating an oscilloscope and
recalibrating it. Well…I've been unable to find a scope fast enough to
do the job. So I guess I'm gonna have to send the unit back to you. But
I'll probably wait 'til you release the "improved" HAM-E before I take any
action.
Looking forward to the latest & greatest.
-Dave-
Ok, whatever you prefer.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S