#PARdon me, but…
41 messages in this thread
Ok, Alan, you're in big trouble.
Scumbag, rat, devious dog, bad influence… This is all your fault.
You should have kept it a secret and should never have discussed it
publicly. You should have made up bad things to say and advised
everyone to stay away.
But NNNOOOO, you had to let me know how great the PAR was. You
exercised some sort of mind control over me, yeah, that's it, it's
not my fault. It's your fault I called and ordered this PAR for my
home 3D dungeon (with Saturday deliverly, no less). I rendered a
bunch of frames last night, installed the evil thing this afternoon,
and am now looking at the most fabulous real-time animation I could
ever have imagined.
It must be your fault I'll be ignoring my wife and kids, neglecting to
feed the dogs, forgetting to go to work, and never getting any sleep
again! You dirty dog – I thank you sincerely for your (and others)
recommendation on this great toy! When I got 3D Studio, I thought it
was the most fun I could ever have. I was wrong: the 3DS/IPAS/PAR
has to be it. After the torture of frame-by-frame to tape, this
thing adds a whole new dimension. Now I have to go into debt and buy
some more pentiums so I can render faster. (Can I blame that on you
too? <g>)
The installation went smoothly, frames transferred with no problem,
and the output looks great. I cannot tell the difference between the
PAR output and that from the ATVISTA, except for some minor
compression artifacting on broad, smooth gradients, and then only on
stills. I can't get the DPSPAR_I.PXP to work: the PXP loader reports
"Can't locate that program". ??? At the moment, I'm rendering
fields directly to the PAR from 3DS on the other machine and it seems
to be going smoothly. I didn't realize I'd be able to see each
rendered frame on the PAR video output as it was completed – a bonus!
Well, I've got to go now – it's my wife's birthday dinner outing
tonight. Let's see, at 1:57 per frame, 96 frames to go, if we hurry,
we can get back when… (just kidding, really!) <g> (Now, where can
I hide these boxes…)
I had the same problem but when I looked at the file size of the PXP
in the process directory it was way too small. I transfered the
larger version of it from the DPSPAR directory and that loaded fine.
You'll need to get the TBC IV next if you want some real fun. I've
never done rotoscoping so fast (completed project time) before.
Thanks, Don, I'll try that. I plan on getting the TBC as soon as I
get some more playing money! Right now, I'm sort of overloaded with
fun. <g> PS: I got some more manatee video last week – had a great
time. Also, I went to Devil's Den for the first time just to see what
it was like. The guy looked at my cave diver card and said "You'll
be bored here" but not so – fun place to poke around in, and all
those fossils!
Never been to Devil's Den. You were pretty close to the place where
I did my Tri-Mix training. Eagle's Nest. Ever heard of it? Not
good for tourists. You'll need someone like Crocodile Dundee to get
you in there. Then, someone like Sheck Exley to get you out. <BG>
Greg just sent me a good tip to simulate a frame buffer in the
editor/keyframer. Need to render to the PAR drive with it in still
mode and when it finishes rendering I get the display. This thing's
great!
O, the thrill of exploration (of the PAR of course <g>). I think it
is obvious that one should not ditch the framebuffer. To bad direct
access to the PAR's 24 bit framebuffer is not implemented.
I found that you could also quickly view images from the PAR drive
from either 3DS Editor, KF, or MatEd by first setting the From-PAR
type to TGA, then View Image and click on the PAR drive and image
name. Comes up much quicker than the 3DS output to the framebuffer.
However, it won't work if Display is set to none, and you still have
to wait till the image goes to the 3DS display (UNLESS you set the
display size smaller than 752*480 and Cancel when it reports "Image
too large for device" <g>). If this gadget catches on, perhaps 3DS
could be made PAR aware.
All this is good fun, but again, I concur with David Stinnett: "Keep
the FB!" It's nice to know the alternatives, though, in case the ol'
VISTA breaks down at some inopportune moment.
Fossils? Did someone say fossils? What did you find?
>>did someone say fossils?…
How'd you know I'm an old fossil? Diving the springs, caves, and
rivers in FL often results in fossil finds, including sand dollars,
urchins (sp?), embedded shells, small crustaceans, ancient sharks'
teeth, and an occasional bone or two. I know a fellow who found an
entire whale skeleton in the rock several thousand feet back in an
underwater cave.
The Devil's Den I referred is a commercialized spring/cavern with lots
of interesting things in the rock. They charge you $20 bucks a day
to dive there (not uncommon in Florida), and have a no-knives policy
intended to help keep all the fossils in the walls.
I have a friend who dives a river in South Carolina and brings back
buckets of HUGH sharks teeth and old bones.
Are you a fossil nut? I take the kids out in the hills around here in
TN and always come back with plant fossils, but not any bones (yet).
>> .. small PXP size
This is interesting. Can you elaborate a little more about this
problem? Do you have any idea how a corrupted version of the PXP
ended up in the process directory? I don't know how the Install
program works (I have never "installed" the PAR software) but
whatever is going on must be brought to DPS' attention.
>>small PXP size…
Gus, I just verified what Don discovered about the PXP. The PXP story on my
computer is:
DPSPAR_I.PXP 2,192 bytes, from the INSTALL program, bad
DPSPAR_I.PXP 27,914 bytes, unzipped manually, works
The disk I have looks like this:
install.exe 41,830 2/13/94 11:43 PM
par_all.zip 460,671 2/9/94 4:14 PM
pkunzip.exe 29,378 2/1/93 2:04 AM
readme.bat 22 1/19/94 4:01 PM
readme.txt 2,829 2/4/94 9:19 AM
testpats [SUB-DIR] 2/14/94 9:19 AM
Anything you want me to check out?
J K J
PS: Great job on the software. Did you do PARDRV or more?
I wrote PARDRV and DPSPAR_I.PXP. That's all… :>
I was asking that as this is the third related report I hear. As I get
them as "my" bug, I'm just trying to figure what is going on. It's
just that I go nuts with the idea of something I wrote out there not
working properly.
As I said, I don't have the "distribution" version of the software
(the diskette you received with the PAR). Now I have to wait through
Monday and find out what is going on up in Canada_(eh)_land… Oh
boy… 'nother sleepless night…
On another, very different subject, this thread has gone out the main
subject. I guess if someone calls in and select this header title,
he or she might get upset to find out we're not talking about Grey
Poupon… So, to keep it nice and clean, could you please pass me the
"Grey Poupon"? :>:>:>:>:>
>>cutting the mustard :> …
You've needle-pointed my thread sentiments precisely.
Might have been a fluke. Who knows? When I did the initial install
the PAR install asked for the confirm on the directory for
\3ds3\process. When I went to use the PXP in the editor 3DS3
couldn't find it but I saw it in the directory at about 2750 bytes
size. ( Don't remember the exact size.) When I was in the DPS-PAR dir
I noticed the PXP size at about 10 times this size so I just copied
it over the old smaller one and everything works now. In hind sight
I wish I'd been more observant for you but I was just in a hurry to
try everything.
>> .. small PXP size
Hey Gus,
I had the same problem. At first it might have been caused by that HD
getting full, but when I cleared out some space it did the same thing.
Ended up just copying it from the DPS_PAR directory.
I am having anouther problem though, maybe you can help. I can not run the
PAR when using QEMM as the memory manager. The monitor screen comes up
black and the framebuffer output is scramled/pixellated ? The PAR works
fine under Himem. Now the strange part…3D Studio will run fine under
himem (or QEMM for that matter) but I get QEMM exception error #13 at
XXXX:6095 (XXXX being different each time) when I load PARINIT and PARDRV
first.
Any clues? Should some memory address be excluded for the PAR? Would be
nice to run 3D Studio and the PAR with the same configuration.
-Ralph
DPS found the PXP problem. It's in the installation program and they've fixed
this (this morning). For now, you have to copy the PXP manually.
I don't know much about the PAR.EXE program but I've noticed this behavior
before. As far as I can tell, it's not related to QEMM. Rather, the program is
sensitive to the amount of free memory. If you are way down (say 400k free), it
will just tell you so. But there is a threshold of just not barely enough where
it will load and lock up (I also had the monitor gone bezerk). I had this
problem when I had my debuger loaded (100k). Thinking that it could be a
conflict with my debuger I just allocated a 100k chunk of memory to test this
out and the problem repeated. DPS is aware of this and something will be done
about it. For now, try to have as much free memory as you can.
To answer your last question, no, you don't need to exclude any memory as the
PAR doesn't map any memory in the PC memory space. I'm curious about your QEMM
exception error though. Check you memory condition and let me know if you still
get those exceptions (#13). PARINIT doesn't really "load". It just initializes
the PAR, transfer the main PAR's microcode and exits. PARDRV will come right
after and "load" itself staying resident in memory. PARDRV is a device driver
(like those you load in your CONFIG.SYS) which I chose to make it loadable from
the command line (to allow unloading it without having to reboot the computer).
Thanks Gus for the quick response. I will try a couple of experiments
tonight getting rid of some drivers (although there is not much I can loose
and still run). It still sticks in my head that the same config and
autoexec are being used EXCEPT for one has QEMM and the other has HIMEM.
I'll get back to you tommorrow after a few tests.
Ralph
Gus,
You have indeed pointed me down the correct path! It appears there
was not enough base memory. I now have the PAR running under QEMM
after re-arranging some device drivers and installing different
aspi/corel scsi drivers.
HOWEVER…two strange problems. I must unload PARDRV (pardrv /u) to
be able to load 3D Studio. If I don't unload it 3DS tries to load,
the screen goes black and locks up. Second, when I leave PAR.exe all
DOS text becomes some ANSI charactor (inverted triangle). I can load
something like dosshell and upon returning to DOS all charactors are
OK.
Anyone have the DPS BBS phone # handy?
-Ralph
I had nearly the same problem — try increasing the extlow in the pharlap cfig.
I had to add 190000h before I got it to work.
–John
>> I had nearly the same problem — try increasing the extlow in the pharlap
>> cfig. I had to add 190000h before I got it to work.
John,
So you think that the PAR driver (pardrv) is sitting in that memory space
and 3D Studio is trying to load ontop? Interesting… at this point I'll
give it a try.
I'll let you know,
Ralph
I havent had any problems w/ the PAR/3ds/QEMM 7.03 combination. I can even
shell out the the PAR deck program from 3ds now… I don't have any unusual
excludes and am using the steath parameter ST:M. Perhaps the problem is
related to some other hardware/software on your system…
–Nat'n
Nathan,
I'm going to try a few more tests tonight. It is strange because everthing
works fine software/hardware wise except for these problems.
Ralph
Ralph, your symptoms are similar to the ones I had last week. I use the Mic
2210A hard drive and it needed reformatting which DPS does not describe in
their manual. Once I reformatted the drive all those problems went away.
If you need to do this you first type PARDRV /u then type pardrv format, then
type a control C to escape out and then you should be able to launch PAR.EXE.
Once in the software click on PREFS and click on format answer the questions
and then the PAR software should work.
Today, I got a Fed Ex from DPS which includes the format option in the PARTEST
software.
FYI I only exclude D000-dfff for the targa+ and the PAR works fine. I do not
use stealth, though. Stealth has been known to cause problems with some
software but I don't know about PAR.
I have 6 configurations and the PAR works with all of them.
Right move to copy the larger PXP file to the \3ds3\process
Don,
Exactly what I had to do with my 2210A also. I am glad to here they have
incorporated the formating into the PARTEST software though…was strange
looking at all those empty DIRs.
My problem may have to do with memory as Gus has said. I am going to look
into it tonight. I did have it all working at one time as I put over 4000
frames thru it to BETA SP last weekend. I mean I had it working under QEMM
that is. This system has gone thru alot lately while upgrading the MB from
486-33 to 486-66 VLB. That was before the problem came up though.
The PAR works great with HIMEM but not with QEMM all other things being
equal. And 3DS runs great with either config until I load PARDRV, thats
when I get the exception error while starting 3DS. I'll figure it out
tonight I hope.
I'll report back when I track it down.
Ralph
What ever it is it seems to be related to your system, as I am using the PAR
fine with all my configs, HIMEM and QEMM. I'm curious to what you find. Need
to know for future reference.
>> …seems to be related to your system…
Don,
I tried all the tricks I know to get 3D Studio to run with the PAR under a
QEMM setup to no avail. Heck I even screwed around with advanced CMOS. I
will try two more things and that is to see if I can get both to run under
Himem and if that doesn't work I will put the PAR in the other machine and
see what happens.
Besides all this I sure do like this thing. Been busy re-rendering flic
jobs I have had to 24 bit….WOW!
I looked for the new PAR.exe you said you have (1.07) on their BBS but it's
not there. That is a black and white interface?
Ralph
>>That is a black and white interface?
I knew some wouldn't get my second message on this. The B/W thing was my error
here. The ver 1.07 PAR.exe is in color. like the rest. Sorry for the
confusion.
Seems you need to go back to basics and start doing the old remove everything
unnecessary and start with the simple boot with PAR. Check it out. Then Add
QEMM. Check it out, then start adding back one at a time until it chokes. I
know it's a lot of work but many times it is faster for me to do it this way.
I'm no wizzard at this stuff. I just try everything and usually get lucky
along the way. <G>
>> remove everything unnessary and start with a simple boot…
Don,
Yes, I know this routine well now. That's why I think I will put the PAR in
the second machine, it's has a very basic setup. I'll let you what happens.
-Ralph
Ralph,
>> I can not run the PAR when using QEMM as the memory manager.<<
I'm not familiar with the PAR-ticulars <GD&R>, but make sure you are not using
Stealth. This can cause problems. You can tell by the appearance of ST in the
QEMM386.SYS line. Re-optimize by typing OPTIMIZE and choose CUSTOM (F3). Then
ESC when it gets to the Stealth installation (as you can see, I've done this a
"couple" of times). In general … I always disable Stealth except in the most
simple machines (IDE, VGA & I/O in the box).
Ang
Angelo,
Thanks for replying … I too have had those stealth problems so I also
bypass that part of the install. It seems Gus has me going down the right
road…it appears there was not enough base memory.
Ralph
I had the same problem w/ the PXP program. Must be some kind of installation
bug…
–Nat'n
JKJ:
Glad the PAR got there and installed without a hitch!
A new day is dawning for PC animators!!!
Greg Pyros
PS – Yes, it's all Alan's fault – blame him for the weather, also! <g>
And thanks for YOUR help, above and beyond the call of duty (or profit) <g>
J K J
I have been reading a few threads on this PAR object, but I have yet
to determine what this thing might be. Care to enlighten? Thanks
Tim:
The PAR is a hardware board that has a dedicated IDE disk drive attached to it.
You simply copy your Targas onto it, and it plays them back at 752×480, 24
bits, 60 fields per second in real time to record on any tape deck.
It can also be used for rotoscoping with the optional TBC board.
As you can see from all the reviews, it is an awesome price/performance
system!!
I am e-mailing you the ZIP file of the specs on it.
Greg Pyros
Thanks, Greg, I will look and drool.
Wow.
I'm here hoping your wife and kids and dog never find out where I live. The
earthquake missed me, but this could be *real* trouble!
If you can possibly hold out and stay for your wife's birthday *entire* dinner,
maybe I will be safe (for a while)…<g>
The dang PAR is gonna be the fun toy of the year, no doubt. I knew you were
gonna love the thing.
The boxes fit nicely under an average-size couch<g>.
-Alan
PS -Just read Greg's note — If you're gonna blame the weather on me,
then you might as well blame me for earthquakes, mudslides,
brushfires, and floods too. Just wanna be consistent…
>>birthday dinner up to PAR…
We had a great time out, capped off with some wonderful cheesecake. I
still haven't told her what a *great* toy I got me for her birthday.
<g> And BTW, as long as you're responsible for the weather, thanks
for today – it's beautiful in Tennessee.
As Gus noted, this thread is serious danger of being targeted for
off-subject execution. So in a humble but blatant attempt at thread
subject re-direction, I offer a line from the famous song:
"PARdon me boys, is that the Chatanooga Choo-Choo?"
There. <whew!>
J K J
John,
Yet another clever and funny message from you!
But . . .
Since I know you're not that clever and funny in person, I'd like to
know who writes your material?
My two Yellow Labs, Chessie and Max, write the funny parts. I do all the
boring stuff myself.
Yikes, here we go again, off the subject. Oh well, if I get arrested for
twisted threads I'll just have to ask the govenor to PARdon me… <groan>
J K J
Alec:
>> Since I know you're not that clever and funny in person, I'd like to know
>> who writes your material?
Susan does. She's much more clever and funny than I am, but you know that! <g>
Greg Pyros
Greg,
Yes, EVERYONE is aware that Susan is more clever and funny than you are (and
prettier too).
Is it a masochistic tendency which compels you to remind us?
Alec Jason
Alec:
>> Is it a masochistic tendency which compels you to remind us?
No, it was your direct question! <g>
Greg Pyros
PS – Your jacket went out UPS today – my distributor wouldn't give me an RMA
on it so I sent it back instead!