#AM IMPROVEMENT
27 messages in this thread
Hi,
I should like to pass some comments on Animation Master. I hope it will be
taken as a positive criticisam, and I shall not be stoned or expelled from the
forum.
I had bought AM purely because I can not afford 3D Studio. And ever since I was
just tearing my hear. Do not take me wrong. AM is a program full of features,
but with very modest toolkit. It exactly looks like product of the small
company. Basic concepts of 3D splines and inverse cinematics are so far in
front of what 3D Studio has now, that it will take Autodesk years to catch up.
But AM was obviously made in harry, and to satisfy programers, rather than with
end user in mind.
I have been using so far professionally: MS Access, MS Word, Adobe Photoshop,
Auto CAD for Windows, Microstation, Corel Draw, Visual Basic and 3D Studio.
There are two features all this, very established programs, have in common:
user interface consistency and support for the clipboard (except 3DS). As
result expirienced user can go very far without opening manuals, and one can
excange data with enviroment he is working in. But both this features are
mercilesly omitted from AM.
I am using it for a two months and I still do not know what each of the
commands in fragmented modules is doing. That did not happen neither with MS
Word, neither with Auto CAD.
I will list just some of unadequte features of the AM:
– All around Windows environment it is accepted that Undo is Ctrl-Z, only in AM
it is U.
– Mirroring is so important it deserves button of its own, not hostile 1,2,3.
– Clipboard would be essential for this fragmented program to transfer for
example selected patches and splines from Sculpture module to Character for
assembly and skining. Or for transfereing rendered images to bitmap editor like
Photoshop. Or for importing templates in Sculpture module etc.
– True Type fonts should be supported, with few types of the bewelling. At
present one simply can not write a single word with this program, where obvious
use for this program is production of all kinds of short logo animations.
– No program in Windows environment is world of its own. Everybody who is not
producing shareware is supporing fully: .DXF, .EPS, .BMP and other file
formats. For example AM would be fantastic for thousands of small Architectural
practices if it had been supporting fully .DXF or .3DS format.
– Material editor should be thrown away and replaced with something similar to
3D Studio's one. It is so complicated, and after lots of hassle, one achieves
exactly nothing with it.
– Program should be defragmented by Decal, Character and Action module being
put together. At least. All other programs have only 2-3 modules (3D Studio)
and some have only one (True Space). It should be given floating pallets, what
is nowdays standard solution for overcrowded screens. In each magazine review I
have read since I had bought the AM jurnalists were complaining about this
fragmentation into numerous modules.
– Character module should be given quick render option, so that one quickly can
see effects of the changes in materials. As well test patch should not be
rectangular, but in a shape of ball, simply because it is not possible to check
efect of the changes in Specular, Transparency, Ambiance, Refraction and Mirror
settings. Same applies to the dreaded Materials Editor. Somebody was simply
taking shortcut here !
– Every disent Windows program costing more than L500 should have on line Help.
– Animatied textures should be available in material editor. Like fire, vawes,
shimering of the light in swiming pools etc.
– All the programs in the similar price range repeat all the comand butons from
the toolbar in the menu, even Compuserve WinCIM which costs only $25.00.
I hope that somebody will take this comments in account when Hash Inc decides
to make version 3.0.
Dejan Corovic
100120,3037
>>>>I hope that somebody will take this comments in account when Hash Inc
decides to make version 3.0.
Dejan, A:M is going through some major interface redesigning right now, it
might be too late for your message… The time will tell if they will make the
program friendlier or not. It surely is in their best interest. I only hope it
will not take two step bact to make one forward <g>
Pawel
Hi, Dejan..
I'm not here to cause you problems, just give you another viewpoint.
Having bought Animation Master as my first 3-D program, I have nothing
to refer to in other programs. I worked in DOS programs years ago and
just recently started using computers again when I bought one for
myself last winter. So, to me, each program I install is a new challenge. It
seems to be a recurring theme here and over on America
Online, that first time computer animators don't have the same problems many
experienced computer power users have. So, I guess Hash
designed the program for us first-timers in mind. U makes more sense
to me for undo than Ctrl-Z, which I only use over on Delphi to exit
sections. Sorry if it's used all over.
I didn't buy this program for "flying logos", a despised term among
3-D animators it seems, though it seems to pay many bills. I read
reviews extolling its character animation abilities. I was looking for
an easy way to make 3-D characters for some film projects that I had
in mind. Animation Master filled the bill.(BTW, there are a couple
packages available for fonts that work in A:M)
My view is, I'm glad Hash made the program for "newbies" and kept
the price down. Many of the things you are looking for probably aren't
in because of that and the fact that they wanted this to be a cross-platform
program, one that you will instinctively know how to
run whether you encounter it on a PC, Mac or SGI.
I hope the new interface takes care of some of the problems you and
others have encountered without creating more…(I keep hearing horror
stories about Windows 95, for example).
If they had everything we wanted in this program, it should by all
rights cost $3000 or more. The people I know who do computer animation
for a living for industrials, commercials and such here in Detroit
know that no single program does it all. They use many for whatever
features each excels at. We should be thinking of A:M as a superb
character animation program and think of other programs for the things
A:M can't do at this time. Or better yet, come up with creative solutions to
work around the problems that are presented to us.
Please do keep your thoughts coming, though. Different perspectives
help create new ideas. And you may have answers to questions that
somebody else has.
Kevin
I agree with all of your points about the power of a:m and the use of other
programs along with it… A:M was never meant to be a super-seefect-based 3ds
studio program… Although collision detection would be an addded addition…
Since it would be easier to animate walking characters on floors… But isn't
that up to the users of the program??? Just joking.. most of 3DStudio is
externally created programs…
Grady III
Dejan,
You bring up several good points. especially the on-line help which I
volunteer to write (for a nominal fee of course<g>).
I do find it interesting the A:M takes so many hits for interface problems
when it has the best interface I've seen yet in a 3D animation program.
HOWEVER, this is a very personal thing: One man's interface is another man's
nightmare.
Kevin,
I'm beta testing Windows '95 (along with a zillion others) and I can tell you
that yes, it's different, but the new interface has some real advantages. We
are using it full time on one of our workstations in a production environment
right now!
Thanks all, AD
Adam,
Please fill us in on Windows 95 as you become more familiar with it.
I don't want to buy into something that's going to cause me headaches.
I've heard that since you don't have File Manager anymore you have
to go to a separate routine to copy floppies, etc., that is DOS based,
not bad in particular, just more complicated.
In Explorer, which I gather is File Manager's replacement (I don't
know this stuff for sure) you can't do multiple windows and you can't
move and copy files between two folders, something you can do in File
Manager.
And there's something called the Register or Registry which has all
the INI files and other computer data. It's supposedly a bear to find
what you need. Is that true?
I'm hoping it's gonna be great stuff. Hope you beta testers can steer
Microsoft in the right direction.
Do you have A:M working with it?
Keep us up to date, please. Thanks!
Kevin
Kevin,
A couple of things:
I don't have A:M (well, actually, Playmation) working on it because Windows
'95 is at work, and I don't want to carry the dongle all over. It would be
good to know though… I'll see if I get time later this week. Work schedule
is bad cuz were trying to get out a new version of our product (a pathology lab
database). Sound familiar Hash? <BG>.
Everything you said about Windows '95 was wrong! :{)
To be fair, the interface IS different than windows, but for one thing, file
manager, etc. is still there if you want to use it. Also, Explorer gives you
the option of running multiple windows (to copy, like file manager) or one at a
time, such as you mentioned. You DO NOT have to go to a CLI to disk copy etc.
Although, of course, you could always run a DOS window if you want…<g>. As
far as the registry goes: frankly, I haven't had to play with it too deeply,
because everything is available through the usual accessories-like utilities.
There is a lot of them though.
I'll mention two things in particular that were really cool: When I
intstalled it to our work system with Windows NT running Lan Manager onto our
Windows for Workgroup workstations, etc, etc. the install was perfect. I was
amazed, since the earlier beta…. didn't do that. I logged in immediately
after installation and everything worked fine, including the network printer
connection and mail. I didn't have to do a thing. pretty slick I thought.
Also, if you use DOS programs heaviliy, it's pretty cool the way you can cut
and past from one to the other. in fact, I was able to dial up a customer
through PCanywhere (a Dos based remote connection package), and cut a program
piece from our DOS application, and paste it to the PCanywhere window and it
appeared on my customer's system. I tried to tell them I really could type at
9600 baud, but I don't think they believed me. <g>
Bottom line, it's still in beta and there are other quirks, and it's a disk
hog, etc. but a lot better (IMHO, of course) than a good deal of what I've
been hearing.
BTW, Hash. what's the latest on the new version, Hmm?
Tip of the day: rent The Mission. incredible film.
Hope this
helps, AD
Adam…
Thanks for the update. Please keep us posted on Windows 95, both the
good and anything bad you may encounter. Good to hear it was a breeze
to install!
Kevin
I agree, I like the Sclpture interface actually… Nothing in my way, button
at the top, no CTRL-LETTER KEYS, Simple keys like G=Group… etc… I like
that… Although material module is a little difficult, I am getting used to
it a little bit… Procedural textures are great.. And really interesting…
Although spherical preview would be a little better…
Grady III
Adam,
I agree with you about the A:M interface. After using
Macromodel/StratStudioPro, etc… A:M just makes more sense. I think there
interface violations are far less than it seems, some simple(?!) fixes would
have stops the bickering. (i.e. when tabbing into a field, highlight the values
already in that field. Each module should have had a way to launch the other
modules without swithing to the Finder/Program Manager, etc..).
I am just so happy to have the features, that I got used to the interface.
Some things about it are WAY ahead of the other programs!
See Ya!
Jim Jonah
I would like to comment on AM in responce to your comments, most of which I
disagree with. I trust you will also accept my comments in the same way you
made yours.
1. First I am new user of AM, but not in the field of animation. I was the 1983
television EMMY winner of the first award for best technical achievement using
computer generated graphics in a local show, so I have some back ground in both
computers and animation programs. I own and use Wave front Chronos and simular
softwre.
2. Next I am running AM on a Silicon Graphics 24 bit workstation using the
standard 1280X1024 resolution.
3. So far I have had no general application failures, all the various parts
work, all windows and all tools work, while it's true I have yet to mast much
of this program, I have not found any tool to do anything but what it is
supposed to do. In other words the render has rendered each and every frame
accurately and in the correct co;ors with maps (decals) oriented correctly.
4. I have found the texture editor to work just fine and have created quite a
few new textures which are as good as any from other applications.
5. I like the individual modules because I can boot any combin- nation I lke,
run each in a seporate window where ever I like on my screen. I have seen no
slowing of any tools no matter if I hav one or all running at the same time. I
find that using two or three at the same time allows me to build in one tool
and skin in another, and just point both at the same project file, this allows
very fast construction because I can save a segment then load and build in
another tool adding or skinning, texturing etc while up dating my project files
all the while. This makes building complex objects faster and more "natural"
than programs like WaveFront etc……
6. While the AM approach is different than many other app's in the same price
range, given the p[ower of spline based system, I find the idea of scrapping
whole tools a very poor solution. I also have found the environment very well
designed and quite confortable, This program is ideal for the entry and mi
level user requiring no system level attention, such as script writting
etc……requirements I find tottaly unacceptable.
Lee
Hi Dejan,
On the Mac A:M, both command-z and u undo, and, if memory serves me right, its
that way under Windows. Doesn't AutoCad use similar single keys commands? While
the standard is two-key hot keys, more and more programs are adding single key
hot key, (Premiere, Photoshop for two).
IF you have looked at Alias and some of the other high-end programs, they all
have seperate modules, (albiet, you can launch one module from another). By
have seperate modules, A:M is by FAR, the fastest opening program I have ever
used! (Try swithing back and forth between Premiere, Photoshop, and
Illustrator, if you don't have enough RAM to keep them all open!).
So many people think of software companies as being rich with endless supplies
of money, I don't. Hash is a small company, and my vote is to spend the money
on new features, (particles, etc…), instead of the interface, BUT, for this
go-around, the interface redo wins.
I don't know of any other program in the same price range that comes close to
the capabilities of A:M, obviously I think it is a fantastic program! The
ability to animate ONE model, bending/twisting/morphing over time, WITHOUT
having to make "morph targets" (copy your model over and over, bend it, and
morph between them) is invaluable. With A:M, if after the animation is done,
the client wants to change the face of a character, most likely, all of the
animation work will not have to be redone, UNLIKE other animation programs I
have used!
Anyway, this is just my two cents worth, I hope you come to like A:M as you
get to know it!
Have a great day!
Jim Jonah
Hi Jim,
Basically you are right. A:M is tremendous, I would not change it for anything
else and I have worked even with Alias. People keep telling me I'm crazy when I
tell them that I wouldn't even think about changing to the other system… BUT
A:M *has* its problems. I'm not talking about the interface, which I personally
had to get used to (now I wouldn't change it for anything, it works great). The
little bugs are the things that drive me nuts! The possibillities are enormous,
but what is the best prg worth if I have to redo whole animations, because
files that were supposed to be saved were not. I had several animations redone
just because my 840AV and Master didn't get along to well for some time.
Sometimes when I wanted to save complex morphs A:M would do as if everything is
ok, but as soon as I tried to load these animations into Action again or
Direction A:M wouldn't even recognize the animations anymore. Or just recently
I wiped out a Model just because I imported it into Character and – by accident
– hit the save shortcut. Any other prg on the Mac would ask you whether or not
you want to save the figure and for a name….A:M doesn't: it puts the name of
the segment into the naming line. So as soon as you just save the figure you
will obviously erase the segment.
Or animations allready saved, that would under no circumstances load into
anything. I'm no wiz in changing scripts, so I do not usually touch these, so I
had to do the whole thing over… and over… and….
For some time now, I haven't had too many problems and I really love working
with it, but let's not forget the pain A:M can be sometimes.
Cheers,
Peter
Hanspeter,
Yes, A:Ms way of dealing with file management tripped me up at first. BUT,
since the files are text based, I was able to go into them and change file and
folder names so that I didn't have to redo all of my animation. You really
should look through the files. Ignore the numbers, just find the File Paths,
its not that hard!
Jim Jonah
I agree wholeheartedly with the complaints about Master's interface. Just
count the steps you have to go through to complete a scene. You have to enter
and exit programs about five times remembering to save your work under a
certain file name.
When you save a file you have no idea where the program placed it. I have to
go to file manager just to find out where it placed my files. To top it all
off, the program does not recognize directories outside of master's, so you
create a bitmap in photoshop and have to make sure its in a master subdirectory
to access it. The modeler of course is excellent, but what's needed is a
programmer who understands windows or even one of the large developer's
environments like Borland.
Rico,
I didn't like being locked into the Master sudirectories, so I created a
Project called "Out", set at the top level of the directory structure. So I
select Out and all the directories are available to me.
Does this help?
<< I didn't like being locked into the Master sudirectories, so I created a
Project called "Out", set at the top level of the directory structure. So I
select Out and all the directories are available to me. >>
Good tip. Think I'll use that one myself. <g>
Rico,
I am a BIG fan of A:M. It allows me to work in ways that previous to finding
this program, I would have had to spend $45,000 dollars on an SGI with Alias.
To me, ALL programs have quirks in the interface, that is just part of working
with computers.
I would rather have a program that saves files in text format, that is
cross-platform, that one that saves them in a binary format. I have lost work
in the past (strataStudioPro) when the machine crashed and corrupted the file.
At least with A:M, I have the possibility of going into the file and fixing it!
3D Studio, Lightwave, Alias, SoftImage (I've heard) ALL have seperate modules
that you work in!
But this is a moot point, so, here's to the new version!
Jim Jonah
Have you heard from Steve at Hash about the PC/PowerMac speed discrepancy?
Charles,
Your results are just not consistant with mine, and others, tests. You said, on
the PC, that you a .fli file, was that at 640x 480 or 320 x200? It would be
fairer to render on both machine to the same settings. Did you create these
files on the Mac and then transfer them to the PC? Did you look at the PC
output (sometimes when I create something on the Mac, I accidently have more
than 8.3 in the name, consequently, the PC can't find parts of the project, if
the file it can't find is a Material or a Texture Map, especially your
transparency map, that would explain the difference.)?
If you wish, I would be happy to render it on my PMacs and 486s. (I have access
to 26 Macs and 3 PCs).
What timings did you get rendering the clam.cho at 640 x 480 24-bit, photo,
anti-alias on you P90?
Thanks,
Jim Jonah
<< Charles,
Your results are just not consistant with mine, and others, tests. You said, on
the PC, that you a .fli file, was that at 640x 480 or 320 x200? It would be
fairer to render on both machine to the same settings. Did you create these
files on the Mac and then transfer them to the PC? Did you look at the PC
output (sometimes when I create something on the Mac, I accidently have more
than 8.3 in the name, consequently, the PC can't find parts of the project, if
the file it can't find is a Material or a Texture Map, especially your
transparency map, that would explain the difference.)?
If you wish, I would be happy to render it on my PMacs and 486s. (I have access
to 26 Macs and 3 PCs).
What timings did you get rendering the clam.cho at 640 x 480 24-bit, photo,
anti-alias on you P90?
Thanks,
Jim Jonah >>
Now I feel silly. After reading the above message, I remembered that I created
the Hash files in the PC, and the bump map and decal in the Mac. So When I went
back to look at each file in each module (checking the filenames and PC/Mac
origination of each) I found that on the PowerMac, the filename of the bump map
had a 0 tacked onto the end of it (probably happened when I copied the whole
folder back and forth a few times across the network.) I fixed that and just
tried the render again. The first frame of the coke bottle renders at 320 X
240, no show screen, no optimized palette to a targa file in 52 seconds (as
opposed to the 18 minutes 39 seconds I got before). The same settings (except
rendering to a .fli file) on the Pentium 90 render the first frame in 57
seconds.
Signed, Silly but Happy. :o)
Gee Charles,
I'm real glad to hear of the revised results, being the owner of a PowerMac 🙂
Elsby
The bug was such a wierd fluke. The bump map had a "0" tacked onto the end of
its file name in its map list as it appeared in the character module, and it
still rendered the bump map, but very slowly. Perhaps it had to keep checking
the disk for a substitute before it traced each ray?
Charles,
So… the PMac wins!!!! (this time <G>).
I'm glad you got it solved, don't you just hate that 8.3 file name business? I
feel for that one myself a few times :).
Jim Jonah
Rico, you must be entering something incorrectly or trying to open
a file that is not read in the particular module you're working in.
I just checked this out again before writing this. You*can* open files
from directories outside of A:M. I just tried this in Sculpture…
I have fonts from Branded Research in a file called Play. I click on
File, click open and type c:\play and it opens that file. I click the
font sub-directory and it opens up the various .seg files of letters,
etc. Then I can load each .seg. Sculpture recognizes .seg files since
that's the extension of files it creates. Also under File, I clicked
on Open Template to bring in a Targa file from my CompuServe download
directory. I simply typed in c:\cserve\download\640lit.tga and voila…there it
was.
You might be right. I've never typed directories and subdirectories in Hash
because most programs let you double-click to get through directories. I guess
AM doesn't allow you to do that. I'll try it the other way.