CompuServe Thread

Amiga Market Survey

67 messages in this thread
#55028From: SPC Superbase Tech SuppApr 16, 1992 10:52 AM
Please answer the following questions. 1) What software packages does the Amiga market need? What software packages do you need that you can't find on the Amiga? What application would you use these packages in? What price range is acceptable for each product? 2) What hardware does the Amiga market need? What hardware packages do you need that you can't find on the Amiga? What application would you use these packages in? What price range is acceptable for each product? 3) What applications that currently exist do you think could be made much better? i.e. the application does the basic things, but needs more features, or a program is problematic, and needs fixing. How could they be improved or fixed? What is an acceptable price for these upgrades? 4) What Amiga development companies that you have had relations with have treated you well as a customer? What have they done to make you happy? 5) What Amiga development companies that you have had relations with have not treated you well as a customer? What have they done to make yo unhappy? Can they fix what they've done? How? Please be as descriptive as possible. You may respond either publically in this forum, or you may email me. Thank you for your time. Darin, SPC Superbase Technical Support
#55049From: Steve SetzerApr 16, 1992 6:04 PM
Darrin, Here is what I feel is needed in the Amiga market as per your specific questions: 1: A spread sheet with all the functionality of 1-2-3, with a good amiga interface and a manuel designed for beginners. There are some powerful SS out there for the amiga but are klunky to use and the documentation assumes prior SS knowledge. in the $150-$300 SRP range. Also a good small business accounting package ie Peachtree, Pacoucli $100- $200 2: SCSI II controllers, hd caching cards, and fax/voicemail $150-$200 ?????? $200-$300 3: Quality low cost CAD software, ie Autosketch. Draw 2000 is a good start, but needs some specific upgrades to be usable on it's own, better dot matrix support, I could get very specific on this if needed. > $200.00 4: Precision Software <G> thier (ex)presence here on CI$ was very handy and responsive 5: CADvison, their support is non existant. I bought a XCAD and there was no # or address to contact them, I had a defective disk and had to finally rely on another owner of the product to copy it for me before I could use it (I could on and on about this too). ..Steve Whap!ping from beautiful coastal South Carolina
#55086From: Don Curtis/SYSOPApr 16, 1992 11:47 PM
Darin, A port of Oracle. Don
#55092From: Jonathan HirschmanApr 17, 1992 12:44 AM
1. I can think of many software packages the Amiga needs! How about a general conversion package that can convert most common PC/Mac formats to common Amiga formats? Something like Word for Word on the PC, but that would convert: A. Common word processor formats; B. Convert graphic formats easily (this would be really great for the novice), but with ittle in the way of image manipulation (users could spend money on something like ADPro/Imagemaster for this); C. Convert sound files. I would buy this in a minute. On second thought, a decent idea processor would be great. Make it a general package, with a storyboard mode….so it would appeal to the 'professional' Amiga crowd. My biggest complaints with Amiga software is that there is always something important left out of general application software…I cannot import EPS into ProPage and have a preview; I cannot do simple page numbering with ProPage; Imagemaster is desparate need of new, bound manual…just once, I would like a package to cover all of the obvious bases! On the other hand, most 'dedicated' amiga stuff (video and animation, 3D..) is done quite well. 2.Hardware: I am still waiting for a solid graphic upgrade solution on the Amiga…right now, I like DCTV; others like HAM-E, and others like the Firecracker…yet, I cannot use any of them with DpaintIV. This is more of a CBM problem. 3. See number 1…I would love to see a wordpro that uses scaleable fonts, and gets the inter-character spacing right! I use ProWrite, but its not yet there, even yet. We shouldn't have to upgrade for basic features. 4. GVP and ASDG have done really well by me, although ASDG seems to have gotten a bit sloppy with their last upgrade. GVP's tech support, although very overworked, has always had the right answer for me. Plus, they upgraded my old hard drive card (a Cltd. Kronos…complete trash)…I was happy to send them $90 for the upgrade, and get stability. I also like Black Belt Systems, but I think that Ben and company really need to [ MORE ]
#55093From: Jonathan HirschmanApr 17, 1992 12:44 AM
[ continuation ] cover some basics that have been overlooked. When the README files are substantially larger than the shipping manual, you have a problem. I would also like to mention another problem…one of distribution of products. Today, I needed a certain program ASAP, due to a sudden client decision (which was quite unreasonable on their part)…the software is CDROM-FS, done by Canadian Prototype Replicas. I found out that there was NO WAY to get the software overnight, from anyone in North America!! Only two folks had it in stock…one was Amagination in NYC, which refused to ship it to me at any price (I will NEVER buy anything from them, EVER!), an some dealer in Ontario that was referred to me by the actual developer (who also could not ship it). Not one mailorder outfit had it in stock, and most never heard of it. Some told me that the publisher was out of business, or that the product was discontinued (i.e.,Creative and Go Amigo). This is an extreme example, but I will probably lose out on this client because of it…and I will have less money to spend on the Amiga as a result. Jonathan – via Whap!
#55114From: Oxxi Tech SupportApr 17, 1992 10:54 AM
Jonathan, in regard to your last comment in the previous message: "Someone told me the publisher was out of business, or that the product was discontinued (i.e. Creative and Go Amigo)" 1. These two companies are the same now. 2. We've had lots of problems, and I don't believe we're alone in this, with their sales department staff telling callers that our product is discontinued, that Oxxi (or Precision or Aegis) is out of business, or that there is no tech support for the product ordered — simply because they didn't have it in stock, and wanted the opportunity to sell the caller something else instead. 3. I wonder if other mail order companies do the same thing? Regards, Whap!penned… Pat @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
#55123From: Jonathan HirschmanApr 17, 1992 1:53 PM
Pat– Honestly, I'll never order from them again. On my quest for CDROM-FS, I got answers ranging from the honest "We don't have it, and it make take a few days…or longer" (that was from Safe Harbor) to simply being hung up on (Montgomery Grant…that was how desperate I was to get that software!). Jonathan
#55142From: tony moschellaApr 17, 1992 6:43 PM
Try Hypermedia the makers of the Fred Fish CD they have.
#55237From: Jonathan HirschmanApr 19, 1992 3:24 AM
Tony– I'm thrilled with the way Hypermedia does business. They have operator service drones answering their calls…it was impossible to request next day delivery, or to ask even the most basic of questions. The Hypermedia folks are not available from 9-5, period. Jonathan – via Whap!
#55154From: SyndesisApr 17, 1992 10:11 PM
As you probably know, CDROM-FS is made by a Canadian guy. He's not a big company, I think he still lives with his parents. He probably has another job. Welcome to the Amiga market. His US distributor is Vertical, Inc., who I'm sure has it in stock. Any dealer could call them to get it. They're in Texas. As for why some dealers and distributors lie… I dunno. They do. I just love it when they say a certain company is out of business. Usually, it's just a face-saving gesture, but it's seriously misguided. The sales droid says, gee, the computer says we can't get it, the company must be out of business. Instead, the truth probably is that the distributor isn't paying their bills on time and the supplier refuses to send them more product. How do distributors make money? By borrowing money (in the form of product) from developers.
#55238From: Jonathan HirschmanApr 19, 1992 3:24 AM
John– I'd like to express my most heartfelt thanks for your time and help. I really appreciate it. Jonathan – via Whap!
#55245From: Andrew BrownApr 19, 1992 4:13 AM
Jonathan, Xetec sell their CDROM file system separately and have a good upgrade policy. The software is now version 1.54 and is getting better all the time. The install program is a joy and writes a mountlist for you. The package also includes a really good CD player front end with 3d buttons and all !!! Andrew
#55304From: Sunset Prod.Apr 19, 1992 11:27 PM
I have version 1.5 of the Xetec CDROM software and was wondering what has changed (or been added) to the 1.54 software. Also, as of the 1.5 release, the Xetec CDROM filesystem only works with the Chinon drive. Has this changed with the 1.54 release? I would sure love to use the faster NEC or Toshiba CD-ROM drives instead of the Chinon drive.
#55431From: Andrew BrownApr 21, 1992 5:35 AM
Sunny, The interface is smarter…there is a CDTV emulation gadget and general improvements all round. I am using 2 of the new Toshiba drives without any problem at all. They are much faster than the Chinon. If you are registered on their BBS you can download the update (once you have been given access to the registered owners section) -Andrew
#55323From: Jonathan HirschmanApr 20, 1992 8:50 AM
Andrew, Ahh..but will it handle a GVP Series II/Toshiba 3201 combination? I was understand that the Xetec CDROM file system was intended for Chinon, but *MIGHT* work with others. Jonathan
#55432From: Andrew BrownApr 21, 1992 5:35 AM
I had heard that it would support the GVP boards. You tell the filesystem to use gvpscsi.device instead of scsi.device. I`m using the Xetec software with Toshiba CDROM drives with no trouble at all. In fact they fly :^) Call Marty Flickinger at Xetec I`m sure he can answer your questions. -Andrew
#55434From: Jonathan HirschmanApr 21, 1992 9:03 AM
Andrew.. Thanks for the reply. I'll give Marty a call…I've already got a ROM that I'm dying to try out. Jonathan
#55262From: Mark SterlingApr 19, 1992 11:22 AM
I also had to wait to get CDRom-FS. It is a very small market for a product that has no advertising and is just beginning to have many targets (CDRom on Amigas). The Xetec software is also good and you can get them to ship it the same day. Both products seem to work pretty well. Did you require CDRom-FS specifically? Both are fairly transparent in actual use. Heck, they'll even coexist running at the same time! ….Mark Sterling 74335,1677
#55263From: Michael GerardApr 19, 1992 12:35 PM
Mark: Happy Easter to you & yours. When are you going to invite me down south to see this wonder-CDRom-FireCracker system of yours? <hint, hint> Michael ….from the north coast
#55677From: Mark SterlingApr 23, 1992 7:51 PM
Mike, Yeah, maybe now that I'm no longer a customer you could come down and see me some time. P^) P^) P^) Aww gee I just couldn't resist. Don't take that the wrong way. Actually you are welcome to come down some time to see how it works. I don't have a tremendous amount of CDRom stuff to see other than the NASA Voyager discs and Fred Fish roms. Call me at work some day and we can set up a time. ….Mark Sterling 74335,1677
#55682From: Michael GerardApr 23, 1992 9:27 PM
Mark, I'd like to see the NASA stuff sometime… I'll ya a call as things start to slow down a little this spring. Michael ….from the north coast
#55818From: Mark SterlingApr 25, 1992 6:58 PM
Mike, Sounds fine to me. I might be able to show a lot more of the NASA stuff in a few weeks with some new versions of software. ….Mark Sterling 74335,1677
#55324From: Jonathan HirschmanApr 20, 1992 8:52 AM
Mark- First off, since I was using GVP and Toshiba hardware, I assumed that CDROM-FS was the way to go. Also, the CDROM market must be heating up to some degree 🙂 since everyone I talked to reported shipping CDROM-FS as quickly as they got them. Jonathan
#55678From: Mark SterlingApr 23, 1992 7:51 PM
I do think the market is heating up. The Xetec software works OK with The GVP/Toshiba combo. My friend has a Toshiba drive and the 33mHz GVP combo board. He did say that diskchanges did not always work automatically. ….Mark Sterling 74335,1677
#55694From: Jonathan HirschmanApr 23, 1992 11:51 PM
Mark– Thanks for the info. Jonathan – via Whap!
#55298From: SyndesisApr 19, 1992 9:50 PM
That's what this forum is all about. Feel free to ask away. There's a lot of valuable tihngs to be learned here, if you prod the right people with the right questions.
#55325From: Jonathan HirschmanApr 20, 1992 8:55 AM
John, Well, actually…I was the person that talked to you in person last week about this subject; I know that everyone's time is at a premium, and it was extremely nice of you to have taken out that time for some Amiga advice. I was expecting to get yelled at, actually, since that is what most folks would do. Makes me feel better of all the times I got rung up during the weekend for some desperate advice, and didn't get upset with the caller. Jonathan
#55278From: Oxxi Tech SupportApr 19, 1992 5:10 PM
Yeah — the last time this was reported (from Creative, about Precision Superbase product, that "the product has been abandoned, and it has no tech support"), when we called them on it, the manager of sales droids there said "FAX me a formal memo about this, and I'll distribute it to my guys." Like the word of the developer that the product upgrade is in development, and the fact that they themselves can call here and have the call answered for tech support, wasn't evidence enough! Regards, Whap!penned… Pat @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
#55297From: SyndesisApr 19, 1992 9:48 PM
I wonder how many memos they have like that, and if the sales droids can read. 🙂 (I know, I'm being cruel.)
#55165From: Paul McCarthyApr 17, 1992 11:46 PM
Jonathan, Call HyperMedia they distribute the software. Be sure to speak to one of the owners. Their there after 4PM central time, before that a service answers their calls and you could get lost in the shuffle. I called and spoke to Chris I believe and he sent the software out 2nd day as per my request. They only take American Express (believe it or not) and their number is: 414-632-3983
#55319From: Jonathan HirschmanApr 20, 1992 8:37 AM
Paul- Thanks for the tip. However, getting through to Chris is really an experience. I was intercepted by answering service drones…I hope that this is their vacation time! Jonathan
#55180From: Black Belt SystemsApr 18, 1992 12:59 AM
The readme for Imagemaster isn't anywhere NEAR as large as the bound manual, Jonathan. It's 50 pages of wide-spaced (80 column on 60 lines) type with LOTS of blank lines. The manual is over 200 pages of info. I'm not arguing that we can improve it, in fact there is no question about that, but you'll be more credible if you don't exaggerate. For every comment like yours, we have comparable comments praising the manual – written in on registrations, even. –Ben
#55320From: Jonathan HirschmanApr 20, 1992 8:39 AM
Ben, Excuse me for the hyperbole, Ben…I was really referring to the physical dimensions, but I sure I wasn't clear. However, I still maintain that the readme is way too large, and that the manual should be updated asap. Jonathan
#55406From: Black Belt SystemsApr 20, 1992 11:08 PM
That is being done. Imagine how long it would take to write such a thing. Now think longer than that, and you've got it. :^) –Ben
#55433From: Jonathan HirschmanApr 21, 1992 9:01 AM
Ben– Looking forward to the new docs with great anticipation. Jonathan
#55128From: David CzayaApr 17, 1992 3:28 PM
Hardware needed: A cheap multi-serialport card. $50 range like on the other machines. VCR tape backup. Cheap OCR software and hardware. I can get a decent OCR program WITH a hand scanner for $110 at the local office supplies warehouse for my IBM, yet it's several hundred just for software on Amiga. -Dave
#55377From: Jim WilliamsApr 20, 1992 7:06 PM
Yeah, the software is _real_ decent. But, I strongly suggest _against_ using a handscanner for OCR. From my experience, it ended up being faster for me to type in the information than to attempt to grab the text via a handscanner and convert it with the OCR software. Partly because of the difficulty in getting a 'straight' scan, but also because of the difficulty of getting two scans aligned side-by-side. –Eet–
#55392From: David CzayaApr 20, 1992 9:44 PM
They have scanner trays for around $20 that align the scanners for a nice sweep. I agree that a full page scanner would be nice, but there is a price hit for the occasional user. -Dave
#55445From: Jim WilliamsApr 21, 1992 3:10 PM
really? I'd never encountered such a tray; I think that might well make hand-scanned OCR worthwhile. Today must be Tuesday. I never could get the hang of Tuesdays.
#55470From: David CzayaApr 21, 1992 8:13 PM
I was just up at the local Computer City (a superstore) and they had a shelf stocked with them for $24. Reasonable, I guess. I imagine you could call some MO places and ask if they carry them. I don't think they are unusual. -Dave
#55189From: William CageApr 18, 1992 10:54 AM
Personally, I feel that the biggest problem that needs to be solve is co-existing with other machines. I chose the amiga because it fits my needs, but I don't want to be an island unto myself. To this end, software and hardware should be developed to make this easier. 1. Software. From what I understand, there is a software IBM PC emulator on the Mac platform that actually performs decently. I would be willing to pay around $200 for this type of software, provided the performance was decent. The object is not to turn my amiga into a PC (like I said, I CHOSE the amiga because I liked it best), but to be able to get by in a pinch. Tools that make cross-platform working easier (I consider the money I spent on CrossDOS the best amiga software investment that I have ever made). 2. Hardware. An industry standard high density floppy drive. I understand that this already exists, but I haven't seen it yet (worth $150-175). Something to stick in my video slot. I don't do film editing. I don't put graphic on tape or operate a touch screen information kiosk. Just provide me with a card that will significantly enhance the screen that I am looking at every day. Better resolution. More colors. You get the idea. The main thing is it must be totally transparent. If I want to diddle with hardware/software compatiblity, I'll swap to an IBM. Depending on features, such a card is worth $275-500. 3. Applications. Most business type software is in need of enhancement. Spreadsheets, wordprocessing, etc… I think that a WP for the amiga along the lines of WORD for Win. would be worth around $175-200 (about the "swap" prices that are offered on the other platform). It should be able do automatic indexing, tables of contents, and provide minimal DTP support. 4. Development Co.s. Consultron and Lattice(SAS) both stand out in my book. Not so much for user support (I've never had a reason to call), but for the fact that the product worked exactly as advertised, at a reasonable price, and with a [ MORE ]
#55203From: Michael GerardApr 18, 1992 2:12 PM
Bill: As far as I'm concerend, PC compatability is now covered quite well. I too feel that Cross-Dos is a tremendous value… the rumors are that this filesystem compatability will be built in to the next release of AmigaDos. Consultron is also now selling a software PC emulator, that on an accelerated Amiga should give decent performance… I doubt it is much different than IBeM or the other pakage uploaded here more recently, but it does give you the peace of mind of buying the package from a company that will give you both phone and BBS support. Cross-Dos v.5 packaged with Cross-PC reatils for around $50 to registered owners of Cross-Dos, $79 to new users. Then, of course, there are the hardware packages: Supra, GVP and Vortex all have cards for the 500, and CBM continues to support the BridgeBoards (and has reduced the price of the XT & AT boards, probably in preparation for the release of a 286 BB). MAC-2-DOS and Amax both make MAC files available to the Amiga, and since most new MACs (dare I say, virtually ALL new MACs?) have SuperDrives which will save files to a MSDOS formatted disk, again, making it easy to transfer to the Amiga. BTW, The new version of CrossDos DOES support: the new CBM high Density floppy, msdos HD floppy's AND the 2 MEG floppy's that are just starting to show up. Also, I agree with you that a video display standard must be set so that add-ons like a HAM-E or FIRECRACKER can be added to ANY Amiga, and display all Amiga software, out of the box! I'm sure it's easier said than done, but I expect some major improvements from CBM in this regard. Remember, we have had a tremendous amount of backwards compatability with the Amiga OS. This may have held baack some advancement in Amiga technology… I heard rumors that 2.0 actually lost some of it's more advanced features for the sake of compatability. CBM is going to have to make the decision to let go of that stand, and introduce the next generation of Amiga… and that will, no doubt, make as many people angry, <continued>
#55212From: Michael GerardApr 18, 1992 4:23 PM
>>> "probably in preparation for the release of a 286 BB" <<< opps… make that "386 BB" Michael ….from the north coast
#55204From: Michael GerardApr 18, 1992 2:13 PM
as it will happy. And, I would like to 'second' your vote of confidence in Consultron. Cross-Dos is such a tremendous value… performing exactly as promoted, and costing so little…. it has to rank up there as one of the MUST HAVE programs for any Amiga owner. Michael ….from the north coast
#55471From: William CageApr 21, 1992 8:19 PM
I agree about CrossDOS, and one added benefit, the upgrade for registered users is only $20 and that includes CrossPC. The drawback is they aren't shipping yet. Last I heard it would be May. Bill – via Whap!
#55857From: David HammApr 26, 1992 2:00 AM
O.K., couldn't resist… Here's my thoughts – High density floppies should have been standard equipment on all Amigas long ago. A 386 BB should have been out long ago also… Commodore _should_ be working on releasing a 486 BB by now. CDROMS are ancient history. Personally, I'll never buy a CDROM because I always want to be able to update my files. Try Read-Write magneto optical technology, Commodore. Now, for another push to keep up with current technology, I think 16MHz Amnigas should have ben standard equipment long ago. (16 MHz is considered a dog in PC compatible markets) And yeah, I know 'But the Amiga multitasks, etc… – It's just that I'm tired of trying to defend the slow (default 7MHz) Amigas now standard equip. Did sombody say price??? Two of my friends just (each) bought 486 33Mhz Super VGA 4MB memory with 120 MB hard drives (PC compats) for under $2,000.00. Wake up, Commodore and offer a little more bang for the buck! For example, I'd like to see default standard Amiga resolution (all Amigas) at twice what it is now (say, about 1280×800). I'd like to see 4 MB 32 bit memory standard at least for the Amiga 2000, and priced at under $1500.00… with a 120 MB hard drive thrown in for good measure. Oh, well… I could go on (don't even get me started on software thoughts), but I'd like to hear a few reactions to these comments, please. Thanks, – Dave
#55926From: Jim WilliamsApr 26, 1992 8:09 PM
What machine do you think is 'standard'? The majority of machines I encounter are running at 25 mhz (with 030s). Today must be Sunday. I never could get the hang of Sundays.
#55941From: Michael GerardApr 26, 1992 9:24 PM
David… I'm not sure why your wish list was directed to me, but I have to ask why you are comparing the low end of the Amiga line to an enhanced, upgraded pc? I'm not convinced there is a better $399 computer on the market than the Amiga 500. CBM still offers the mass market the best value there is. For $399, a parent can get their kid a color computer that ignites the imagination, is easy to use, doesn't require all kinds of hardware add-ons to be put to use, doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and doesn't need to be reconfigured for each piece software run. Of course I want to see the high end advance, and the technology move forward. I'd like to see everything you have on your wishlist too. But the Amiga should not be measured against the PC. PC compatability is nice, but it should not be what CBM strives for in the Amiga. That would be a waste of resources. Increased FILE COMPATABILITY across platforms is more desirable to me than program compatability. When I need or want to run PC programs, on run them on my PC. Amiga users must start to see the forest for the trees. Michael ….from the north coast
#56250From: paul ciminoApr 30, 1992 6:55 PM
I'm not convinced there is a better $399 computer … True, but why is the A2000 so much more than the A 500 ? Street price is about $600 more, retail about $900 more !!!! What does that buy you ? Some slots a bigger case and and a more powerful power supply ??? A direct comparison PC->Amiga would be a 286-AT with 1 Meg, keyboard, case power supply, street price $400. True it isn't as powerful as an Amiga, but it is 12 MHz (when was the last time you saw a PC (any model) running less than 10 MHz ?) But we are talking manufacturing cost. Don't tell me it's advertising or R&D, the machine is old (in terms of computer development). The advertising is nil. Why should there be such a cost spread between the A500 and the A2000? Probably so Irving Gould and his cronies can gouge everyone. Of course that is my opinion., but until Mr. (and I use the term loosely) Gould explains any of his actions, that will have to stand, in my mind, as the only reason. CBM, wake up !! Advertise !!! Look at Apple and all their ads back in 1984. Did they present a computer ? No! Marketing hype ! Did it work ? You tell us ! Did they price gouge for their product ? Yes ! But they are trying to be more in line with PC prices recently. PS: They have 24-32 bit color graphics !
#56277From: Don Curtis/SYSOPMay 1, 1992 12:35 AM
Paul, Cost, or increases in price from one model to another usually has very little to do with the actual cost of the parts. Far more often it had to so with preceived value of the additions. I wouldn't trade my 2000 (now a 2500) for a stack of 500's. Don
#56507From: paul ciminoMay 4, 1992 4:45 PM
Not the issue. If CBM wants to charge $400 for an A500, when it costs them $300 to make, okay. If they want to charge $1500 for an A2000 when it cost them $400 to make it, okay. But if CBM wants to keep current users happy, and get new Amiga owners to boot, then why not charge $600 for an A2000. You said it yourself, you would not trade your A2500 for a stack of A500s. But the average buyer these days can get a 1 MB 386 SX (read that as SuX) with SVGA and a hard drive for less than the STREET PRICE (Street price is around $999, and list around $1,400, last I checked) of an A2000. Now where is the perceived value ? To someone intimately familiar with the Amiga still might go with the A2000. What about all the Amiga owners looking to trade up, and all they see is the same machine ? True, a new OS, but for the average user, what has really improved ? A college student who might like to do video, should (s)he spend $1,000 on a full system, which (s)he can expand at a later date, or spend $1000 on a cpu and keyboard ? The issue might be value if CBM would spend more on advertising than Irv Irv Gould's salary. But they aren't. It could be an issue about how wonderful a machine the Amiga is, if more people new (again) what a value it is. It might be an issue about wonderful Amiga technology, if this were 1986, and CBM advertised. But this is 1992. PC's are cheap the Amiga isn't. The technology is 6 years old and the prices haven't changed that much. I agree the Amiga is a wonderful machine. But it is too pricey when you examine the poor R&D efforts, poor marketing and low cost competition.
#56540From: Don Curtis/SYSOPMay 5, 1992 12:52 AM
Paul, The point is…the manufacturer set the price point where they can make maximum profits. Too high, they don't sell enough and profits drop. Too low, and they can't sell enough to make a decent profit. Essentially, what the unit costs to produce (including overhead, R&D, etc.), reasonable profit plus "what the market will bear". CBM has apparently decided that their maximum profit is right where the unit is selling…..after all, that's CBM's only responsibility…to make a profit. Certainly they have try to keep their customers happy…but the bottom line is THE bottom line. They could have the happiest users in the world, but if they're not making a profit…they won't be around very long. Don
#56653From: paul ciminoMay 6, 1992 6:26 PM
I understand "The Bottom Line". But take OS-2 for example, In the first year it was offered, the price was over $500, and by the end of the year it's installed base was under 5000 WORLD WIDE! It didn't get any better. And as BYTE (I think) magazine put it, was it better to sell 5000 copies at $500 ? Or maybe IBM should have sold 50,000 copies at $50 ? True, 5,000 manuals is cheaper than 50,000, so the bottom line was showed a higher profit. But because that first year was so poor, Microsoft dropped OS-2 support. Will OS-2 ever take off ? I doubt it. Could it have taken off if it had undersold Windows from the start, even though it was a poor product ? Even money, but it's chances would have been better. All I'm saying about the Amiga is CBM should do more. Sure the stock holders (i.e: Irv Gould) are happy in the short term. But are they reinvesting profits ? Apparently not as quickly as Compaq, Apple, Novell and any other computer equipment manufacturer you can name. Eventually this will catch up with CBM, and in the dog-eat-dog world of computers, all the price slashing and all the advertising and all the R&D will come too late. I hope CBM makes me eat my words, I really do.
#56686From: Don Curtis/SYSOPMay 7, 1992 12:54 AM
Paul, The price had nothing to do with MicroSoft dropping support of OS/2, it was because the product was a pile of junk…at any price. There are those that think that IBM kept the price up in order NOT to sell too many copies of the original version of OS/2. IBM knew it had severe flaws but in order to maintain at least a tiny bit if credibility in the marketplace. Withdrawing it would have been a complete disaster as would have thousands of dissatisfied users. Don
#56010From: Vic WagnerApr 27, 1992 5:22 PM
David, Apparently you don't understand CD-ROM. It never WAS intended as an updateable medium…it's a publishing medium. Should I infer from your comment that you don't buy books either?
#55190From: William CageApr 18, 1992 10:55 AM
[ continuation ] minimum of unneccessary hassle. One other that stands out is Comeau. This is simply because whenever I check in to AmigaTech on CIS Mr. Comeau is there giving support, free advice, and chit chat. If I ever step up to C++, I know I will happy with his product. 5. 6. Publishing! You didn't mention this one, but I would give my eye teeth for good books on the amiga. Especially programming. I program my amiga for the fun of it, but I am not a developer, so that source of good info is not really available to me. There are NO books to fill the void. If I could find good books on AREXX, C programming on the amiga, specialized programming (database, graphics, etc…) on the amiga, etc… I would buy them all. They would have to be solid books though, not beginner fluff or strictly technical jargon, but something that would provide me the means to go from my current level of expertise to a higher one. If you could revive the Amiga World Tech Journal that would be a great start! Bill – via Whap!
#55279From: Oxxi Tech SupportApr 19, 1992 5:10 PM
Yes, Bill! — Books! More Books! I have an non-computer-fanatic friend (or two) with an Amiga running an A-Max on it. Just this morning he was saying, it would be really nice to have a book, about an inch thick, of information about the device, emulation, the support it provides, etc. Regards, Whap!penned… Pat @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
#55472From: William CageApr 21, 1992 8:19 PM
I agree, I know the installed base is not huge, but it would have to be more profitable to release some Amiga specific books (on hardware and software) where there is a huge void, than it would be to release another book on WordPerfect for DOS (where there is already 500 or more). Bill – via Whap!
#55224From: Gary HinesApr 18, 1992 10:30 PM
This is another vote for a good spreadsheet, a la Microsoft Excel.
#55242From: Richard BeausangApr 19, 1992 4:09 AM
Darin: This is a very interesting list of questions. Are you guys going to undertake the implementation of the suggestions you get? I am personally in favor of seing more ARexx support in products. Not only in providing ports but also providing macro making features. ARexx is a very powerful tool and fairly easy to learn, (or so I've read), but for the average user, it involves a steep learning curve that they may not even want to get into if they merely want to immediately produce results with the software. Take for example a program like QED which offers not only an ARexx port but also built in ARexx macro making capacity. ProWrite could certainly benefit from such a facility. Another good example is the program available here called artdmm.lzh which is a macro maker for The Art Dept. Something like this should be included with The Art Dept or something similar should be developed with templates for other ARexx supporting programs. Speaking of ProWrite, I really like this program's intuitive style and once I started using a software postscript interpreter with my HP compatible Epson Laser, the output wasn't half bad. The graphic importing still leaves alot to be desired. Since the program now supports postscript, why not allow for the importing of eps or postscript graphics? How about bringing Deluxe Video up to date and developing a program like DPaint that works with 24 bit or DCTV? On the hardware front, I sure would like a CDTV CDROM drive for my 3000. A hybrid card that would marry the features of the upcoming 24 bit DMI Resolver and GVP's Impact Vision 24 would also be nifty. There are add on boxes for the 500 and 2000 that offer additional slots, how about one for the 3000? I'm thinking of a box about the size of my 3000 that would fit neatly under it and offer a few additional expansion slots, maybe an extra drive bay or so, and a couple, or more, of switchable video slots capable of accomodating a toaster etc. Device Independent Graphics is a must and heck the above mentioned magic [ MORE ]
#55243From: Richard BeausangApr 19, 1992 4:09 AM
[ continuation ] box may even be able to utilize PC video cards. It would be nice to have some real parallel processing. I don't want to switch between 68040 and 68030. I want to be able stick a 68040 card in my 3000 and run both processors at the same time. That would sure speed things up a bit. I recently read an Article in the Ney York Times about a dude that developed a language called Linda that allowed for parallel processing on some networked PC's. It claimed that the results exceeded that of a Cray supercomputer. It seems that the Amiga would be a natural for something like this. It sure would be thrilling to render and view some 24 bit Imagine animations in real time. – Richard
#55270From: Jim DuttonApr 19, 1992 1:34 PM
The Amiga marketplace would do well if there were several "native" Token-Ring communications boards and appropriate software to allow me to connect my Amiga directly to an existing Token-Ring LAN at work which is strictly big-blue flavor. Additional software will be required to make my Amiga fully functional in such an environment (eg; data sharing, data format conversions, device access (eg; file servers, printers), compatible electronic mail packages (Lotus NOTES?), IBM 3270 emulation (CUT and DFT), etc; etc; etc.). Another software need in the communications area is a full TCP/IP implementation which includes SLIP, but does not require a HAM radio, or an Ethernet or Token-Ring card, does not use the X.25 protocol, and doesn't require UNIX. The current AmigaNOS TCP/IP implementation (for AmigaDOS) is best used for radio nets, not for asynchronous dial-up to a remote TCP/IP host using the SLIP protocol, over a standard telephone line and existing asynchronous modems. Another version that was designed for a "native" Token-Ring card would also be needed. Another hot item in my wish list is an Amiga port of IBM's Xedit/Kedit file editor (with full REXX/ARexx support, of course). I contacted Mansfield about this but they weren't interested at the time (they developed Kedit). Another wish item is a "native" word processor which supports foreign languages (translations, or spelling checker, or ??). Once the T-R cards and software become available, somebody then needs to incorporate SQL capabilities into existing Amiga database/spreadsheet products for remote inquiries (ala IBM mainframe), et cetera (or design a new one). If the T-R cards and software become a reality, then somebody should start designing some routers, bridges, communications hubs, etc; that are based on an Amiga versus a messy-dos machine. How about faster floppies (not just more capacity or caching, but higher data throughput)? – Using Whap! (from Southern Illinois) (Internet: ca0008@siucvmb.siu.edu)
#55289From: Marlene Zenker/SYSOPApr 19, 1992 8:20 PM
Actually, the TCP/IP implementation that Commodore sells is very good. I'll have to look up whether or not SLIP is supported. I've been using the Ameristar/Commodore stuff for about four years now, and I'm very satisfied. Steve
#55797From: Jim DuttonApr 25, 1992 1:56 PM
The CBM TCP/IP implementation is Ethernet only, and from what is listed on the flyers for their implementation, no mention is made of SLIP. – Using Whap! (from Southern Illinois) (Internet: ca0008@siucvmb.siu.edu)
#55277From: Jeff SchweigerApr 19, 1992 3:35 PM
Darin – With respect to software packages I would like to see for the Amiga, here are three: – Fully validated Ada compiler – IBM 3270 Terminal emulation package – Reasonable set of CASE (Computer Aided Software Engineering) Tools. Jeff Schweiger
#55331From: Jonathan BlackwellApr 20, 1992 12:37 PM
A couple of ideas: HARDWARE: A simple no frills 24bit video card that would support the 24bit IFF standard. Software to enhance the 2.04 workbench (IE 24bit backgrounds).. Cheap network solutions to coexist with existing networks (Novell, AppleTalk, etc…) I know that OXXI has something like this but I don't see it advertised so I do not know much about it. Too bad, I might buy a package if it fit my companies requirements. Amiga specific file sharing like that found on the MAC. Maybe even run coexisting with AppleShare. New sound digitizers (still waiting for the AD1016 from the Perfect Sound people) Skip the Hicap disk format and jump to the super hi-density 2.88 format. Make it a standard. Variable speed drives would be nice too. Bridgeboard ISA bus extender to accept 16 bit PC cards. SOFTWARE: A real spreadsheet that will save and read other formats like Excel, Lotus, and will even import those macros. A word proccessor that has the same features as above. (import word, wp, and other commonly used word proccessors.) Data sharing between programs would be awesome! New Video Toaster modules. A digital effects editor for the toaster. Perhaps a toolkit for developers. I could go on and on and when I have time, I will. Anyway, there you go, I don't want much, really! The Amiga is the greatest machine I could ever own. We need hardware and software to keep it there! -Jonathan
#55621From: Jonathan HirschmanApr 23, 1992 12:58 AM
Jonathan… I got the data sheet from Oxxi, and their software looks amazing. I think that it definitely would fit your company's requirements. As for Appletalk…Progressive has the Doubletalk board. Jonathan – via Whap!